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Gordon Brown clearly refuses to acknowledge that the debt problem goes far beyond the housing market. What about the huge debt run up on credit cards as Brown has naively encouraged debt-led demand to encourage growth. What about the astronomical cost of government borrrowing? Debt that will have to be paid for eventually by the taxpayer. Of course the government can always print the money if they get stuck. After recent eventsat Northern Rock such a 'guarentee' wouldn't surprise me.

In fact he did his normal of not answering any question directly at all, and as for the listening Prime Minister he did not even let Marr finish asking his questions(not that most of them were exactly tough) before going off onto some rant about the Cameron and the ERM.
I hope lots of people watched this interview because he came across as his old true Stalinist self.

Will Bluetongue Brown risk it on the back of his wooing of the supposed 'Blue-Brown' conservatives?

COMMENT OVERWRITTEN BY THE EDITOR.

Brown makes 'teflon Tony' look about as non-stick as an 18th century cast-iron pan on an open fire. You have to give the guy credit for his performance in the Andrew Marr interview this morning.

Taken at face value, you'd find it difficult not to believe that in 1997 he set up a wonderful system that in recent days helped to avert a banking disaster.

If we're not to face years more of his stalinist tendencies, someone has to start to dismantle his arguments piece by piece.

"Gordon Brown clearly refuses to acknowledge that the debt problem goes far beyond the housing market."

I am not sure, but I believe he told a blatant lie in the interview, when he claimed the Mortgage repayments were half what they were compared to Conservative times. For the figures I have seen regarding housing affordability now puts them above that of the Lawson boom, and while the interest rates might be lower, people now need much more highly leveraged loans to purchase a house, which puts peoples finances in a much more parlous situation.

But of course to rubbish this Brown spin needs some Conservative MP's, better if the Shadow Treasury team can find some time from what ever they are doing, to get out there and rubbish his claims. But that might be asking a bit much from our invisible Shadow Treasury team.

This man is worst than Blair for his mistruths and lies. When his bounce goes, it will go with a bang.

As a life long Conservative supporter and member and pro Cameron, I am in despair about the state of the party. As Iain says, we have an invisible Shadow Cabinet, we have been racked by overt displays of disunity and disloyalty and even worse we seem to have nobody who can articulate and expose all this Brown spin and sham.

The Britsh people are once again being duped and brainwashed. Everything that Brown is claiming to put right is a result of his part in why it went wrong in the first place.

I am no Jeramiah, but unless s miracle happens to the Conservative party then we are facing going backwards in terms of Parliamentary numbers, losing some of out brightest talent and being left with a rump of mostly those MPs who represent the past. Another 4/5 years in opposition would be a tragedy for the party and the country. An a betrayal of all of us in the constituencies and marginal seats who want to see the party change and win.

Is there nobody in this party who can save us?

By which time Andrew we will be in oppostion for another 4/5 years!!

4th bullet point - He wanted to create an NHS that was "personal" to all patients.

What a load of balderdash! NHS patients are an emasculated group of consumers, whose autonomy and responsibility have been robbed by micro-management through flawed policies.

THIS JUST IN FROM CCHQ:

Shadow Chancellor of the Exchequer, George Osborne, said:

“Gordon Brown cannot give straight answers to the simplest of questions, he was repeatedly asked when he first knew about the problems at Northern Rock, and he refused to answer. The Prime Minister can’t go on refusing to tell us what he knew and when he knew it, and why the government was unable to stop the first bank run in living memory that threatened the stability of our financial system. What is he trying to hide? Why can’t Gordon Brown be straight with people?”

Shadow Health Secretary, Andrew Lansley, said:

“At the start of his leadership campaign Gordon Brown said the NHS would be an immediate priority but his response was simply to start a review while critical issues like closures and downgrading of hospital emergency departments and maternity services carried on. Gordon Brown’s latest announcement on hospital infections simply confirms that Labour has failed and three years after we called for a search and destroy strategy against MRSA Labour are partially accepting our solutions. The fact is, Gordon Brown has no coherent reform programme for the NHS, he hasn’t announced future investment plans and those working in the NHS now look to the Conservative Party for the leadership and policies the NHS so badly needs.”

I'm thinking of setting up a 'Gordon Brown drinking game'. So far I've got:

Drink if GB mentions any the following:

'Getting on with the job'
David Cameron and Norman Lamont in the same sentence
'conviction'
any reference to his father being a church minister
'Tory opportunism'

Down a bottle of whatever you have in front of you if he ever gives a straight answer.

He is going to increase the Labour majority, no question at all. The disarray in the Conservative Party is palpable. My only question is what happens to the Conservatives after yet another defeat? Split? Extinction? Surely there is a role for an intelligent, effective centre right party in Britain.

If he calls it this week or next week it is too late to cancel the Conservative Conference and he would therefore risk our having an excellent conference - which I am sure we will - and achieving a "bounce" in the polls and good momentum for any election campaign!! I wonder if he will realy want to take the risk on that?

I'm not so sure, what with the recent boundary changes. Certainly Labour will lose seats in Scotland (albeit to the SNP). The Lib Dems will lose seats, but mostly, I'd say, to the Conservatives. Not that the Conservatives will gain much from Labour, if only due to the ineffectiveness the Shadow Cabinet seems to have in countering Brown's spin and lies. But they won't lose much to Labour either - especially in the South.

So, if there is an election in October, it'll Labour back in but with a reduced majority. Which I'm not sure is what Brown would want.

I think that Gordon Brown should read this quote from a Polish immigrant - reportedly - who works very hard doing a dirty job repairing London Underground stations during the night. He originally came over here with his new wife and baby in 2000, started to work as did his wife, but found that a part-time gardeners salary, for him and a cleaners wages for her, was not enough to live on, plus 'living in Kilburn' was not a place to bring up children.

So he sent his wife and child back to Poland, it is hardly a good life he complains, as he doesn't see his children grow up, 'BUT THE SCHOOLS AND THE HOSPITALS ARE BETTER IN MY COUNTRY THAN IN ENGLAND, AND I WANT THE BEST FOR MY CHILDREN.' He continued - 'WHEN I VISITED A HOSPITAL IN LONDON RECENTLY THE DOCTORS HAD DIRTY FINGERNAILS AND THE NURSE DID NOT KNOW HOW TO TREAT MY INFECTED KNEE.'!!!

But in fact this Polish immigrant now gets the best of both worlds - LESS crowded schools and hospitals, in his OWN country, but also curtesy of the British taxpayer - family benefits for each child, the same as other families in the UK, only of course his FAMILY is back home again now. That is good for him as the benefits money will go a lot further in Poland than here.

The name of the article? 'Angela and her children live in Poland. So why are they and thousands more pocketing £1million a month in child benefits paid by British taxpayers? Reporter - Sue Reid, in the Daily Mail yesterday.

Perhaps there should be a signpost erected at Sangatte, soon, in many languages and saying - STANDING ROOM ONLY IN THE UK NOW!!!!

If an election is called in the near future will all of us still be allowed to post on CH or will it be true-believer Cameroons only?

So often the correct way forward in money , life and politics is to to do nothing .

Leaving aside that Brown is a nauseating charlatan , his sensible way forward
- from his point of view -

is to do reject all calls to go for an election which will hazard all he has for an extra 2 or so years in power

and do just that ie nothing .

Remember that Scotland , as ever , looms much larger in Labour calculations than England . A British general election held now will simply advance by a few years the process of replacement of Labour as the longstanding establishment party in Scotland by the SNP - and it will have been facilitated by Brown .

The corresponding proceess also (possibly) in Wales .

And thats before any break up of the UK which such a result could crystallise .

All Brown has to do to avoid all this - for a while - is do nothing .

cheer up. cameron's in a far better position than polls suggest.
link to www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/09/22/should-gordon-brown-go-the-polls-early/

UKIPPERS will take out advertising no doubt against the only party determined and able to stop the EU Constitution, and thereby try to shoe in the party that will ratify it without a referendum..

Are you completely mad or only half mad, Henry Mayhew? UKIP stands for United Kingdom Indpendence Party - remember? Don't forget what you believe in. Vote Conservative.

There is another way to indicate whether there is an early election... how brown is Brown? Is he working on his tan? Remember Ming's orange face in May 05? Howard was pretty orange too, and Brown looks quite orange in the picture above! It's goung to be October I tell you.

COMMENT OVERWRITTEN FOR BEING WAY OFF TOPIC.

You know whom I miss on this site - Changetowin and the other CCHQ trolls. Where are they now, I wonder. Melted into jobs in the private sector, no doubt. What I hate most about politics is the sheer unimportance of being right.

Ed,
Where is this site archived to?
I am going to find and expose all those deluded people who thought the Cameron strategy had 3 yrs to work & who denied an autumn election and all those who backed it.

What this site needs is more shame and more blame.

more shame and more blame.

Sounds like your average Tory cabinet!

You know whom I miss on this site - Changetowin and the other CCHQ trolls

Yes they have gone rather quiet, haven't they?

If you put changetowin or whoever in Google together with conservativehome.com it will bring up some of the old posts. If the name consistes of more than one word don't forget to put them together between inverted commas eg "Jack Stone"

“Asked who (GB) was politically, he answered that he was the son of a church minister who believed in hard work, family and respect for others. The NHS summed up his political values. “

Pull the other one, Gordon. NHS: yes, loads of extra tax-payers’ money spent....that has landed us with A&E and maternity unit closures, redundancies among health staff… Patsy Sergeant’s post at 1346 describes the results of the failure of Mr Brown’s health and education policies (since 1997) to tackle the problems in these services.

The nurses’ dirty fingernails Patsy mentions raises the issue of hygiene. Giving hospitals a ‘deep clean’ may help but ultimately without hygiene improvements and a hierarchical supervisory structure (matron?) that enforces hygiene standards, would any improvements to MRSA etc rates following a ‘deep clean’ be short lived?

As for families, GB comments must be spin to try to attract traditionalist Tory voters. But his “moral compass” clearly becomes disconnected when it comes to this type of topic. Even if we ignore a recent Telegraph report that his deputy leader, Harriet Harman urged Lab MPs to support ‘gay’ events, we still have Labour's opposition to David Cameron’s support for marriage. With the rest of Lab, he seems to stop his ears and close his eyes to the evidence that shows children generally do best, and less likely to end up in crime, poverty etc, if they are brought up by married Mum and Dad. It seems GB’s only answer to poverty is the usual socialist one of state handouts keeping people in state dependency, and thus in poverty.

Coulson's obviously been spinning ITV.

Their political reporter just said calling an early election could well reflect badly on Brown and blow up in his face, calling Miliband's 'another 10 years of Labour government' comment as "hubris".

No doubt the Brown Broadcasting Corporation has just been given 'encoragment' to give another 'Brown gush / Cameron bash' in the Monday morning bulletins to compensate...

I've just watched the Brown interview. He's a strange man insn't he? Why did Marr let him off with non answers? Unfortunately for Brown he is quite poor at being interviwed which a Chancellor can get away with, (neither Lawson or Howe were much cop) but a Prime Minister cannot. My prediction that the more people see of Brown the less they will like him.

Tapestry,

Voting Cameron Conservative will not bring me the philosophical satisfaction you suggest, nor will it bring in a Conservative government.

I think I will both stand and vote for what I believe in. My question was about when to say Goodbye! to the other posters on CH. I don't want to get cut off without the opportunity to post a final comment!

NEW IPSOS/MORI POLL on Sky News:

Labour 42%
Conservatives 34%
Lib Dems 14%


"cheer up. cameron's in a far better position than polls suggest.
link to www.johnredwoodsdiary.com/2007/09/22/should-gordon-brown-go-the-polls-early/"

oh that's great.One of the Tories who caused the disaster of 1997 is now giving electoral advice.John "Tories keep royal yachts" Redwood is about as relevant to 21st century politics as Edward Heath.

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