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The Conservatives should sue him for plagiarism of many of the "new" policies.

Border police, using money from untouched bank accounts, matrons, cleaning hospitals, immigration limits, deporting foreign criminals etc

Love the Danny Finkelstein comment.

"The Prime Minister has just pledged that unless contract cleaners in hospitals meet the highest standards of cleanliness they will lose their contract. What's the procedure at the moment, then?"

Doesn't that just sum up this Government's performance over the last 10 years?

It is clear from watching the news at 10, Newsnight etc that most Labour people seem to think they've got the next election in the bag.A mood encapsulated by that oaf Kinnock boasting about he wanted 'to grind the bastards(Tories)into the dust'. Looking at Brown's speech and the reaction to it from his supporters showed me yet again why I loathe the modern day Labour party and would do anything I could to ensure it's beaten.

I hope we have just landed the big fish.....Gordon has just made a series of announcements that he thinks resonate with the public.....and guess what...he is right.....however whenever the Conservatives cover the same ground/issues we are denounced by the media.......Brown has attempted to claim authority over our natural position and is feted.........but hang on.....he has been a cornerstone of this Government for the last 10 years....yeah...but....has he had no responsibility???......yeah...but....what is this all about......I feel like we are inhabiting a parallel universe or are having an "Alice in Wonderland" moment........GORDON BROWN HAS BEEN THE SECOND MOST SENIOR MEMBER OF THE LABOUR PARTY FOR THE LAST TEN YEARS.......he inherited a golden goose......he sold all the eggs/gold at the bottom of the market, ate the golden goose and now?........we are one of the most indebted countries in the world.

We, the Opposition, can and must attack all his pronouncements as completely dishonest and back it up with evidence...his Government's record on all the key areas are a disgrace and..... all the while he has hocked both our Country and its people to the hilt.......

Let us attack HIS track record.......let us attack HIS record all the time on the radio and the TV......let us hear HMG's Opposition...we do not need to defend our position.........we are the Opposition we need to attack...Let us be a passionate, hungry and honest Opposition.

Gordon Brown has been a pivotal member of the Government for the past ten years..he has presided over the economy which he inherited in a good state.......if he plans to instigate the things he says he will.....why now? and how can we believe him when he has had ten years to consider such issues key........and done nothing...

Guido's comments are (as usual) utterly facile: and the fact you agree 100% with him is alarming.

OF COURSE the fundamental issues are the same: if you seriously believe that there's a "cure" for or utopia after which no work will ever again be needed on poverty, education or health then you shouldn't be in politics.

The scale of the problem and the context of it changes. Take poverty: even if every single person measured as living on or below the poverty line in 1997 had been lifted above that level, all that would have happened is that the line would have been redrawn, because it's a median, not an absolute.

And in 1997 the problem with public services was under resourcing (all but the most irrational right-winger will concede that). Today it is bureaucracy and value for money: so problems but not the same problems.

In education, the headline problem was primary school class sizes. That's dealt with. Now the problem is essentially quality of secondary education.

You seem to be spinning a line that after ten years Labour should have "solved" education, or health or any other issue. If you can't find a more substantive criticism, you don't have a very strong case against him. And you could have.

Looking at Brown's speech and the reaction to it from his supporters showed me yet again why I loathe the modern day Labour party and would do anything I could to ensure it's beaten.

Amen to that.

Malcolm Dunn, yes, Labour are drowing in their own arrogance. I too sensed a cocksure strut at their conference. All the more reason to pull the rug from under their feet. As for Neil Kinnock, there is an old Northern Soul song which sums him up perfectly its title is 'Time will pass you by' and time certainly has left Neil Kinnock thining of what might have been and what never can be.

Why not throw Brown's words back at him, if hospitals still need basic cleaning what have you been doing for the last ten years?

He's playing the strong and successful card, and the counter is showing him as weak and having failed to deliver.

Corporation tax receipts suffered a bigger than expected drop in August. It is reported that Barclaycard are reducing their customers' credit limits and other card issuers are said to follow. A substantial drop in consumer spending is expected irrespective of whether the B of E lowers interest rates, or not, so expect a big reduction in VAT receipts running up to Christmas and beyond.

It is this which will finally derail Brown. His speech amounts to nothing in particular if he hasn't got the money to implement it. Ken Clarke got it right - Labour Governments eventually run out of money.

Browns speech actually revealed a lot of opportunities for us. Basically Brown just strung together a load of words designed by spin artists to convey some subliminal message - new, serious, aspiration etc. This is the guy who claims he wants an end to spin but has in fact taken the spin he and Blair contrived and made it into "super-spin". Its interesting what some of the public who were interviewed said about his speech - buzzwords, soundbites, already had 10 years, delivery needed etc. However he is being allowed to get away with this spin too often and it is conning others.

Matt Wright @03:31

Exactly right, ane here's a classic example - he's going to buy 10,000 lap top computers so that policemen don't have to sit in the police station filling in forms.

A short quiz - Thanks to Labour, police are spending vast amounts of their time sitting in police stations completing unneccesary paperwork. The answer to this problem is either:

1. Reduce the paperwork. this would involve zero cost and police would go back to spending much more time on patch doing their job of preventing and solving crime.


2. Spend vast amounts of money on computers so that the police can carry on doing the unneccesary paperwork, but sitting in their police cars or some other convenient bolt hole - anywhere except the police station.
(providing the systems are correctly implemented to allow them to do this of course....)

Which answer do you think is correct?

Which answer has Brown gone for?

At long last, people’s eyes are beginning to open (just check out the Have your say page on BBC news 24).

But guess what, I truly expect our front bench will let him and his cronies off the hook, YET AGAIN!!!!

Where was our party's reaction to this speech? Is it really a wise tactic to say nothing?

George Osborne put a response out on the Tory Party website calling it re-heated... The CRD has come out with a number of examples showing the speech to be anything but fresh.

"Where was our party's reaction to this speech?"

Yes where the bloody hell are they? They should have been out there rubbishing it, yet silence has allowed Brown to dictate the agenda, and the newspapers, with the absence of an alternative spin and message have fallen for Brown's point of view.

We're going to have to do a hell of a lot better than put out a few lines on a web-site that only die hard Conservatives ever read.

The reaction here is very different to that 'outside'. They are all saying he is a social conservative!! We had better get real about what is happening here.

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