When will Merkel and Cameron meet?

Gordon Brown's quality time with Angela Merkel has had a lot of coverage (pic nicked from the Coffee House) but as Jonathan Isaby points out today, her trip to London this week was yet another missed opportunity to meet David Cameron.

Brushing off any idea of an overt snub (as was also alleged about Sarkozy when he was in London) a spokesman told Isaby that Cameron hadn't asked to meet her this time but that their offices were talking about them meeting at some point in the future.

Merkel is certainly still hung-up on the issue, as is her Chief of Staff, and she and Sarkozy did number among the eleven centre-right leaders who threatened to cut-off bilateral relations with Cameron if he took the party out of their federalist grouping.

Deputy Editor

Comments

[James Maskell]

Given the chances of Cameron becoming Prime Minister are rather slim at best probably explains why Merkel wont meet Cameron. Hes not going to be Prime Minister for some time. It would ultimately be a wasted trip that would, if anything, annoy Gordon Brown.

[Think about it]

Hush your tongue Jimmy M. Justin will have you kicked out of the party.

[malcolm]

I thought President Bush was being rather childish in refusing to meet Cameron Are Sarkozy and Merkel are doing the same?
Are these meetings really important? Blair according to various biographies believed personal relationships were extremely important and that his own charm and charisma would influence foreign leaders. We can see with hindsight that this was a false premise. He surrendered the EU rebate in return for nothing,he was forced to accept the EU constitution and his relationship with Bush was beyond parody.
If Cameron does become PM his first and last thoughts should be to promote British interests. We have seen with Blair that personal relationships can sometimes get in the way of that.

[TomTom]

I thought President Bush was being rather childish in refusing to meet Cameron

I bet you didn't say that when Reagan refused to meet Kinnock.

[No loss]

Merkel is no angel (see typo) in article. Cameron is probably thankful that he does not have meet this awful woman. She is no ideological ally of the Conservative Party, just another EU fanatic who does not give a monkey's about democracy.

[EML]

Hehe, Reagan and Kinnock were hardly ideological bed-fellows. Where's the comparison?

[Think about it]

The answer is in your first sentence EML.

[Graeme Archer]

I admit I have a tendency to look on the bright side and be generally pro-Cameron. But I can't find a single downside to his not meeting this Merkel person. She's not a Conservative, she doesn't share our vision for Europe, she's not going to influence the UK election (other than by helping the British centre-right, through her insane love of the constitution) .. who cares that David Cameron didn't meet her?

Five things David Cameron would be better doing than meeting Angela Merkel:

1. Meet residents of an inner London borough to see how the third sector helps people improve their lives
2. Use (1) to point out the failures of Labour policy on crime.
3. Use (1) to publicise the Tory primary for London mayor.
4. Finish washing up the porridge dishes
5. Err, that's it.

Tim should offer a prize for the best list of 'things that are better to do than meet Angela Merkel'! For example, I am going to wash out our organic recycle box (eeugh) and change the cat litter (double eeugh). As vile as these activities are, they are more useful than meeting with Angela Merkel. Should the opportunity have arisen.

[malcolm]

Except of course Tomtom Regan did meet Kinnock.I thought someone of your huge intellect and knowledge would know that!

[Graeme Archer]

PS I'm well aware that Merkel is nominally Conservative. I was using the Conservative Home definition. Even a soggly liberal like myself can tell 'she's not a real Conservative'.

[James Maskell]

Im sure hes already drafting the letter of complaint to my Association...

[Terence]

Perhaps their attitude shows just how important they believe is Cameron’s decision to form a new political group in the European Parliament after the next euro elections. Rather than just whinging about the EU or negotiating a semi-detached position within the EPP or sulking in lonely isolation, Cameron is actually setting up a group which is centre-right and committed to our staying within the EU and is free of the EPP’s ‘confessional’ roots but which wants a decentralised and more open union. I wonder if they fear that other sections of the EPP might peel off and join.

[AP]

Angela Who?

[James Maskell]

We need another three nationalities to make this group have any importance. One country signed up then pulled out. Which countries might consider it? Its not exactly a bandwagon of support coming the MERs way...

[Think about it]

It is the Cameroon way to insult anyone who disagrees with them, so you may as well extend that to world leaders too as per Graeme's suggesyion.

[Michael McGowan]

Very well put, Mr Archer. I was astonished when I saw her going into Downing Street the other day and being met by Brown. I thought we lived in the age of the politics of image and makeovers....yet the pair of them together reminded me of an episode of the Teletubbies.

[Oberon Houston]

No great loss maybe, however Cameron does seem to have a problem building relationships. I think to the electorate he has good down to earth appeal, but to peers and above he comes across as aloof and sniffy. He had an opportunity to try and fix things with Murdoch, but that went wrong. Merkel, Bush, 'my name is Sakosy' etc. all seem to prefer to avoid him too. This doesn't fit with the 'behave in opposition as if your already in power'.

I remember getting some coaching once and I was told that it wasn't good enough to be focused on meeting my objectives, I also had to look at those above and across from me and try to appreciate what they need. Not possibly that relevant in this context, but e does need to make more effort. Blair went all-out 94-97 and it didn't do him and harm.

[Carolyn]

Whatever happened to the EDU?
The Conservative party is a member of the European Democratic Union when last I heard. Surely the leader should be talking to his fellow right of centre colleagues to establish where the common ground is and where they differ. This is not a matter of the leaders of each country meeting each other but leaders of political parties. This applies to all aspects of international cooperation and not just the EU!!

[James Maskell]

Strictly speaking when we say EPP, its shorthand for EPP-ED, which is effectively a coalition. That might explain it Carolyn.

[Andrew Woodman]

Judging by the reaction she got at Wembley with Brown, it's no loss.

[George Hinton]

Good, lets dump the EPP and have no truck with these statist fascists.
Merkel and the rest of her ilk have had the temerity to interfere in our internal politics regarding the EU Constitution. I find that rather insulting of Angela, given that 80m+ Germans will not get a plebiscite /referendum on the issue, as the German Constitution forbids such. She resurrected the issue and then tried to camouflage its real aims, whilst working in the back rooms to shot-gun it through as an act of dictat.
A pox and plague and floods on these EuroTrash politicians.

[Scotty]

As the Deputy Ed points out Merkel and Sarkozy have already made threatening noises about Cameron's determination to withdraw from the EPP. But at the moment I wonder if relations are even chillier between Merkel and Cameron because we want a referendum on the new treaty?
If Brown is forced to concede to a referendum here, it could force other countries into having one as well. I don't imagine that Merkel would be very keen on that scenario unfolding, especially after what happened over the constitution?
This issue alone would make Cameron and the Conservatives public enemy No1 with Merkel and her team?

[Sean Fear]

I'm sure that David Cameron can live with being ignored by Angela Merkel. I know I could.

[simon]

Why the fuss that DC has not met Chancellor Merkel?!? Can we have a leader that will tell other foreign leaders poking their nose into our internal business to 'foxtrot off'! If Chancellor Merkel is not happy on our stance on the EPP why doesn't DC come out and attack Merkel on 'democracy'. We don't believe in a European Federal System. Do the German electorate? If she can't be honest about the 'Euro-constitution', can she be honest about anything else?

[TomTom]

yet the pair of them together reminded me of an episode of the Teletubbies.

Posted by: Michael McGowan

Churchill and Stalin were never as elegant as Blair and Chirac since both were like an episode of the Teletubbies but surprisingly they had so much more power and shaped Europe for at least 50 years. That is Power not image

[TomTom]

'm sure that David Cameron can live with being ignored by Angela Merkel. I know I could.

Posted by: Sean Fear | August 24, 2007 at 11:14

Is that a Syllogism ? Ergo Sean Fear is David Cameron ?

[Tony Makara]

Angela Merkel is massively over-rated as a politician. When compared to Mr Sarkozy she lags behind intellectually, particularly in her understanding of economics. It may suprise people to know that not every politican is a cocksure expert in the finer points of economics. I recently heard an interview with John McCain and it was refreshing to hear Mr McCain admit that he wasn't an expert in economics and that he hires a team of advisors. Angela Merkel, is cetainly no expert in the field and her macroeconomic policies will be found wanting. She certainly has nothing to offer David Cameron by way of advice.

[Think about it]

Cameron has caused himself so much unnecessary grief by failing to deliver his immediate EPP withdrawal pledge.

It has left him in contradictory positions, where he has his party in a pro federal EU grouping whilst demanding a referendum to prevent it happening.

If he had just delivered that single pledge in the way he pledged, ie immediate, they he would have real support behind him.

As Daniel Hannan wrote in 2005, only immediate withdrawal from the EPP would preserve and remaining trust the people have in the Tory Party over the EU.

Surely, now is the perfect time to immediately take the Tory MEP's out of the EPP to strengthen trust in Cameron's referendum call?

[Jennifer Wells]

I think this is a problem. Matthew Parris wrote for ConsHome on Monday and said that Cameron should be seen meeting important people so that he starts looking prime ministerial. Mr Parris was right.

[John Wilkin]

As far as I can see the main difference between the CDU and new Labour is that the CDU is actually more federalist. We have nothinng in common with them.

Here's a mischievous idea I sometimes have. Would it be feasible for the Conservative Party to field candidates in Germany in the next Euro elections, campaigning on agenda of lobbying for a referendum on the treaty, and maybe even one on the restoration of the Deutschemark.

[Scotty]

"Cameron has caused himself so much unnecessary grief by failing to deliver his immediate EPP withdrawal pledge."

To have left the EPP to stand alone at that time would have been about as helpful and effective as leaving the Conservative party to join UKIP over the issue. Better to have some short term grief instead of a total loss of credibility with the wider voting public.

[Think about it]

So are you saying that Cameron lied and had no intention of delivering the immediate exit pledge that won over a vital group of party officials during the leadership election, Scotty?

Roger Helmer has personally and publicly confirmed that Cameron, first-hand, pledged immediate withdrawal.

Dan Hannan even wrote that he could not vote for Davis because he was *not* pledging immediate withdrawal. Hannan evwn went on to write that Davis' pledge to delay withdrawl until 2009 would destroy any remaining trust in the Tory Pary over the EU. Funny how Hannan is quiet on that now.

[Think about it]

oops - lots of typos - sorry.

[Scotty]

"So are you saying that Cameron lied and had no intention of delivering the immediate exit pledge that won over a vital group of party officials during the leadership election, Scotty?"

No, hindsight is always better than foresight.

[TomTom]

Would it be feasible for the Conservative Party to field candidates in Germany in the next Euro elections,

How droll. First register as a political party, then set up a Party List.

Who knows Conservatives might have more success in electing MEPs than in England

[TomTom]

Angela Merkel is massively over-rated as a politician. When compared to Mr Sarkozy she lags behind intellectually, particularly in her understanding of economics. It may suprise people to know that not every politican is a cocksure expert in the finer points of economics

Tony I think you are wrong.

I think Merkel is a very competent politician who has destroyed everyone who has crossed her. She is very ruthless.

As for Economics - there is a Ministry of Economics - Bundeswirtschaftsministerium in Berlin and there are groupings like DIW, IfW etc plus the Fuenf Weisen who seem to have produced a more coherent Economic policy than in Britain.

However in Germany it is industry which generates the export surpluses and owns the enterprises.....so long as they can buy up British businesses they can increase scale.

Considering France has an economy with unit costs way ahead of Germany I ca see why Sarkozy needs all his wiles to try to stop unemployment mounting in France as China becomes super-competitive with the strengthening Euro and sinking Dollar

Merkel has effectively destroyed the SPD even as her own party disintegrates. The fact is that political parties are no longer essential and are relics of a byegone era....as for approval ratings Merkel enjoys huge popularity

Kanzlerin Angela Merkel (CDU) hat zu einem Höhenflug auf der Beliebtheitsskala deutscher Politiker angesetzt. 76 Prozent der Deutschen wollen, dass sie im Amt bleibt.

Finanzminister Peer Steinbrück (SPD) schaffte Platz 2, Schlusslicht bildet Gesundheitsministerin Ulla Schmidt (SPD). Nur 43 Prozent wollen, dass sie im Amt bleibt.

Mit der Regierung sind die Bürger jedoch nicht zufrieden: Nur 38 Prozent wollen, dass die Koalition unverändert weiterregiert. 51 Prozent fordern, Merkel solle ihr Kabinett umbilden.

Berliner Zeitung states Merkel has the support of 76% Germans as Chancellor but only 38% support the current coalition with 51% wanting a Cabinet reshuffle.

[Tony Makara]

Tomtom, I didn't like the way Angela Merkel publicly slapped down Nicholas Sarkozy when he sensibly suggested that the Euro was overvalued and effecting exports. She certainly comes across as being a leader fixated on her own opinons rather than being flexible enough to consider soundings from others. The ratings, like all ratings, will change. I'm all in favour of consensus and getting away from the dogma of political blocks but I see nothing in Merkel that convinces me that she is above dogma, her personality reflects her politics.

[TomTOm]

I didn't like the way Angela Merkel publicly slapped down Nicholas Sarkozy when he sensibly suggested that the Euro was overvalued and effecting exports.

I did.

Sarkozy wants to override the independence of the European Central Bank to have it serve French interests. Merkel wants it to be independent so the Bundesbank legacy is not threatened.

Germany took a decade of punishment to get costs down as France let the costs inflate. Now France wants to have the Euro depreciated to cover for French, Italian, Spanish, and Greek inability to control costs.

The Germans are simply saying that you cannot depreciate your currency as a way of covering up your inability to cut costs. Sarkozy is a bit of a charlatan mouthing free market platitudes but simply afraid to take on French unions.

The French are trying to take over Airbus and to mould the EU to their national interests - Merkel merely slapped him down which is why she will tilt more towards London than Paris

[TomTOm]

Tony.....from Die Welt

Merkel

[Michael McGowan]

TomTom, when I grow up, I want to be a cynical smart arse like you who spends a large chunk of each day cutting and pasting the internet.

I think you will find that the parallels between Merkel/Brown on the one hand and Stalin/Churchill on the other begin and end with their shape.

[George Hinton]

Lets not forget that Merkel's early impressions are of that workers paradise, East Germany. You can't really kick over the traces of statism and autarchy, particularly when you're given the reins and your only clear background is a communist dictatorship.
Clearly she would like the EU to look more akin to the Warsaw Pact.

Apologies if anyone finds this a smear to far, its my opinion for whats its worth.

[Tony Makara]

"Frau Merkels versteht Chinas politische Strukturen eben viel zu gut, weil sie Pekings KP wegen ihrer Erfahrungen mit der alten DDR und der verflossenen SED besser durchschauen kann."

I don't think its possible to compare Honeckers DDR with modern China. The brands of communism are 180 degrees apart from each other. On the question of the ECB, one has to question their judgement after their recent propensity to panic over sub-prime. Their wanton attempt to inject liquidity is as bad a printing money. Returning to the subject of Merkel, rather like Brown, she had a run of good publicity with slightly lower inflation, the EU/G8 summits etc, but as we all know luck runs out eventually. Tomtom, I take it that you don't rate Mr Sarkozy?

[Tony Makara]

Typo Corection:

"Returning to the subject of Merkel, rather like Brown, she had a run of good publicity with slightly lower inflation(should read lower unemployment and not inflation)"

[TomTom]

TomTom, when I grow up, I want to be a cynical smart arse like you who spends a large chunk of each day cutting and pasting the internet.

I have wondered in recent days if this is the same Michael McGowan...this one leaves himself so wide open to ridicule it is hard to believe he is the lawyer Michael McGowan....... when I grow up fits in perfectly with the quip Effie left you the other day.

Lets not forget that Merkel's early impressions are of that workers paradise, East Germany.

Do refresh my memory. What might they be ? There are at least 17 million Germans with impressions of the GDR just as there are 700,000 Poles in Britain with "impressions" of Jaruzelski's Military Dictatorship in Poland....no doubt that will inspire the British Army ?

[Philip]

“Matthew Parris wrote for ConsHome on Monday and said that Cameron should be seen meeting important people so that he starts looking prime ministerial. Mr Parris was right.” (Jennifer Wells August 24, 2007 at 11:37)

True, but it depends on which important people and at what timing in the best interests of Britain. What would be the purpose of a meeting between Mr Cameron and Angela Merkel, other than for her to try to persuade him to break his overdue promise to leave the EPP, and to stop his campaign for a referendum on the Constitution, sorry Treaty, and edge him towards the ‘ever-closure union’ vision? Would he be able to pursuade her of an alternative vision? Wouldn’t it be better if they could meet without the overshadowing agenda for the EU super state, but instead as representatives of two free sovereign nations who are deep friends and allies?

[Oberon Houston]

Well, you know what they say about hugging friends and enemies.

[rumpelstiltskin]

With all this talk about leaving the EPP-ED and forming a new group, will someone please tell me who exactly we are going to form a new group with? ALL the mainstream right of centre parties are in the EPP-ED and NONE want to leave. There is no one else, apart from oddballs, nutters and independents. And as the Conservative Party is a mainstream centre-right party that aspires to government, it will not want to be associated with any of them. I remind everyone that European Parliament Standing Orders insist that a properly-constituted group has to have at least 6 nationalities represented in order to obtain committee membership, speaking rights, financial and secretarial assistance etc. So, with the exception of the BOO-boys who want us out, what do sensible Tories expect our MEPs to do?

[Traditional Tory]

what do sensible Tories expect our MEPs to do?

They expect Cameron to honour his pledge and leave the EPP.

Yes, the problems are exactly as you state, but perhaps he should not have made the promise in the first place.

The logical move is indeed to leave the EU altogether. Let's go for it!

[UKIPWebmaster]

Here they are at Wembley with their 'adoring' public.
http://www.ukip.tv/?page_id=3