David Cameron is about to give a speech on the "anarchy" of youth crime from a community centre in Darwen, Lancashire. He told GMTV today that the government's approach was one-dimensional, saying that there needs to be focus not just on criminal justice but on:
- reforming police bureaucracy - "free up police from targets and paperwork and make them accountable to the local community"
- strengthening families and communities - "in the end it is stable homes - good values taught in the home- that is the best way to tackle crime in the long term".
Cameron will also advocate giving more sentencing power to magistrates.
Update: You can download a Word doc of the full speech here (and pdf here). One of the stand-out lines was a very appropriate quote from Sir Robert Peel (the Conservative Home Secretary and PM who created the police as we know it):
"The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it."
In the Q&A afterwards Conservatives from the region asked about banning outside drinking, fear on the streets, bringing the concept of shame back into society, and how political correctness affects apprenticeships. Cameron has now headed off to the local police station.
Deputy Editor
4.30pm update: I've just read the speech and think these lines are spot on:
"We need to make men realise that having children is an 18-year commitment – not a one-night stand.
We need to make mothers realise that it’s work, not welfare, that offers their family the best future.
We need to help couples stay together, not drive them apart with the tax and benefits system.
And we need to make society as a whole – that’s you and me – realise that we all have duties to our neighbours."
I think this could be good. Let's hope if it is a thoughtful speech that we don't allow Labour spin doctors to rebrand it with any more of that 'hug a hoodie' crap.
Posted by: malcolm | August 22, 2007 at 11:37
Where will we build the new prisons?
Posted by: banboris | August 22, 2007 at 11:53
I hope he talks of ASBOs as a failure, not a success. They are a badge of honour for the recipient and nothing more than a sign that the police and council involved have *failed*. It is the police chief in a heavily ASBOed area who should wear a badge of shame. Elections for police commissioners!
Posted by: Graeme Archer | August 22, 2007 at 11:53
Good speech, identified the problems of Labour's woeful managment while also making good solid suggestions about how we tackle the problems.
Posted by: Scotty | August 22, 2007 at 12:14
I agree, Scotty! This is exactly the sort of stuff we should be addressing.
Posted by: Sally Roberts | August 22, 2007 at 12:32
This is easy to say in opposition, and it would be hard to find much opposition to such common sense. One can only hope that this is possible to deliver in power.
Posted by: Ali Gledhill | August 22, 2007 at 12:34
"The test of police efficiency is the absence of crime and disorder, not the visible evidence of police action in dealing with it."
Exactly. So is Cameron prepared to quote which crime figures he will pledge to improve by then end of his first term?
Posted by: Think about it | August 22, 2007 at 12:40
Notably he didn't mention the Eurocrats in Brussels who are responsible for creating much of this anarchy in the first place. We can't punish criminals these days because of human rights legislation, but Dave dare not mention the 'E' word.
Posted by: Oliver Arthurs | August 22, 2007 at 12:44
I think we need special services for young offenders which would act rather like boot camps to instill character into them. Catch them early and put then through their paces in a character building way instead of locking them up in cells, where they may learn all kinds of ways to break the law.
Boot camps would provide what National Service would, but we don't want or need National Service.
Posted by: Christina | August 22, 2007 at 12:44
If ASBOs are seen as a badge of honour by the cretins who earn them, then perhaps we should give them MBEs (or even peerages?) instead. By the same logic, they would regard those as shameful.
More effective than ASBOs would be making use of the stocks again. Just for a day .... there would have to be legislation on what they were pelted with (soft fruit and tomatoes only?) but that could provide a market for local growers.
Posted by: MiddleEngland | August 22, 2007 at 12:45
That's the politics of "and" in action! Boot camps for the little brats, and if they still don't fall into line then it's 24 hours in the stocks for them.
I like it.
Posted by: EML | August 22, 2007 at 13:18
Christina | August 22, 12:44
"..Catch them early and put then through their paces in a character building way.."
Wasn't there a series on the telly a while back where miscreants were volunteered by their parents to be sent over to a boot camp in the wilds of USA?
Might be interesting to know the longer success rate for those alumni!
Posted by: Ken Stevens | August 22, 2007 at 13:42
"Where will we build the new prisons?"
Judging by comments elsewhere, we'd better make sure they're only on brownfield sites, otherwise we'd upset the CPRE...
Posted by: powellite | August 22, 2007 at 13:53
I was at the speech this morning.
It was very well recieved and rightly so. Mr Cameron put across a coherent and strong analysis of the current problems we face as a country and some of the possible solutions to them.
Moreover he was excellent in his responses to the varied questions from the floor.
One of his key points was that if you actually think about it, Labour have nothing to say on these issues and many others. They lack imagination and are running away from their record. We need to be more effective in stressing this, so that the media stop focusing on internal party research mistakes, as regrettable as they are, and begin to focus on the issues that matter to the public at large on crime and health etctera.
Listening to this website's Editor on Five Live it seems that we are winning the key arguments. The Lib Dem blogger should sign up for our party as his solutions to youth crime are more or less what DC was espousing - less paperwork for the Police, an end to an over-reliance that more laws are the only answer etcetera; while the Labour blogger just blamed the last Conservative government!!!
Posted by: James M | August 22, 2007 at 13:58
Anarchy!
This is so incredibly over the top - what is wrong with this man, will no one point out to his face how incredibly stupid he is making himself appear.
Posted by: Scott Wilson | August 22, 2007 at 14:57
The problem is one of everyone knowing their "Rights", but not having the nous to understand their "social responsibilities", combined with the laissez faire of the Blair years and earlier which saw left-leaning social workers carry out a vast experiment, of freedom of expression and socialist mores, designed to re-engineer the public, and engender dependancy on the state.
The result is a nation that has no brain, no cares and no will. NuLab have created the monster that is Britain today. To create change will be like treating an addict, there must be the core will to accept change and want change. Personally, I feel that we have gone too far down the road of socialism and state dependancy for the majority of the electorate to want to change. Many are now on the state pay-roll and like turkeys they ain't gonna vote for Christmas or Thanksgiving.
Good though that DC has chosen to highlight this issue, it is core and can torpedo Gordo's ship of state.
Posted by: George Hinton | August 22, 2007 at 15:03
I don't think Cameron actually used the work "anarchy" in his speech.
"Anarchy in the UK" was a recent headline in the Sun wasn't it? I imagine the speech in general will go down well with the Sun-Mail-Telegraph spectrum.
We should be able to wrap this issue up by the election. Now so sure about housing, education and the NHS.
Posted by: EML | August 22, 2007 at 15:07
He used "anarchy" in his Today i/v with Jim Naughtie on Monday. Sadly this is too little too late...most people now equate our postion on law and order with "Hug a hoodie".
Posted by: Stand Up Throw Up | August 22, 2007 at 15:16
Could we also get rid of Community Support Officers? As far as I can see the only function they perform is that of jobsworths i.e. the taxpayer pays them to do something useless to keep off the streets. In the meantime they snarl up the traffic by virtually continuous point duty practice on the Buckingham Palace Road/Elizabeth Street Junction.
Posted by: yaffle | August 22, 2007 at 15:21
To be fair to Cameron, he repeated his call for stronger families etc today as he did in his now notorious 17th May 2006 'hug a hoodie' speech (which was a fair description based on the number of times he did actually repeat that they need 'love' in the speech).
However, 'anarchy' (and Cameron is directly quoted in the press today using this word)is an immediate, emergency issue that cannot be addressed by talking about love, and building stronger family foundations etc.
Anarchy is an emergency situation where the only priority should be the safety of the public.
If law and order has genuinely broken down into anarchy, then loving hoodies and reducing a bit of police paperwork is a shockingly embarrassing and impotent proposal by Cameron.
You can imagine the scene; cars burning, windows broken, rioters throwing bricks at the police and Cameron standing behind the shield of the thin blue line promisng less paperwork and more love for the hoodies.
Posted by: Think about it | August 22, 2007 at 15:32
BBC giving fair coverage to Camerons speech.Amazingly they are not reporting any 'reaction' to it from Labour, has anyone heard any?
Let's hope they have learned their lesson after their farcical coverage of John Redwoods proposals.Perhaps credit to Andy Coulson is due.
Posted by: malcolm | August 22, 2007 at 15:37
When almost 50% of people feel unsafe out at night, that's anarchy.
Posted by: Praguetory | August 22, 2007 at 15:52
This is a bit rich and late. Hoodies and drunken yobs have been causing anarchy on our streets, especially at weekends, for years.
Dave chose to chase to Chav vote with his infamous "hug a hoodie" speech. He failed to understand that voters and businesses, e.g the Bluewater shopping centre, see hoodies as an intimidating menace.
Recent opinion polls show that Cameron has paid the penalty for courting the votes of wishy washy liberals who read the Gruaniad and Indie. Many voters see Cameron as a touch feely toff who is secure from crime in his big Notting Hill and Oxfordshire houses.
Talking about police bureaucracy and strengthening Families will not change that perception. Voters want tough sentences for muggers, thugs and thieves. They want police out on the streets rather than harrassing motorists. But those are the policies that the Labour and its cronies BBC will spin as a drift to the Tebbitite right.
Cameron has to choose between appealing to voters who lives are blighted by crime or to the leftist establishment. At the moment, he is taking the latter course and has allowed Labour to appear tough. That will only lead to a heavy defeat.
Posted by: Chavs and Dave | August 22, 2007 at 16:03
Did you actually read David Camerons speech Chavs? It was one of the most thoughtful he has ever given and was a brave attempt to start a debate.Sadly he was smeared by Labour spin doctors who pronounced it 'hug a hoodie'.
His chasing the chav vote I think through both that speech and todays is about as far from the truth as it is possible to get.
Please tell me how giving more sentencing power to magistrates or the other proposals Cameron made today is supposed to 'appeal.... to leftists'?.
Posted by: malcolm | August 22, 2007 at 16:10
"Sadly he was smeared by Labour spin doctors who pronounced it 'hug a hoodie'."
Smeared? These are his actual words from that speech:
"So when you see a child walking down the road, hoodie up, head down, moody, swaggering, dominating the pavement - think what has brought that child to that moment.
If the police and criminal justice system guard the boundaries of acceptable behaviour - patrolling the territory beyond the pale - then community groups populate the interior.
If the police stand for sanctions and penalties, you stand for love.
And not a soppy love! I don't see anyone soppy here
It is about love."
"
Now, what is a 'hug' if not an expression of love? Clearly used for a negative image by the opposition, but only effective because it accurately satired the speech.
And yes I read the speech. It was pretty much the same one we have seen from opposition leaders for the past 10 years.
Posted by: Think about it | August 22, 2007 at 16:18
Malcolm, die is cast. Cameron will always be associated with "hug a hoodie". He embraced the hoodies, as part of his "change" agenda, rather than attack their intimidating and aggressive hehaviour. It is a bit late to attack that behaviour now.
Today's speech is over a year late and cannot undo the damage of "hug a hoodie". Team Cameron is panicking because the public do not see Dave as a credible PM. If only Dave had listened to experienced colleagues in the House rather than relying the overpaid Steve Hilton.
Posted by: Chavs and Dave | August 22, 2007 at 16:32
Amazing what selected quotation and a few carefully omitted ellipses can do to a speech.
If you think that helping errant children learn respect is all about beating it into them, you probably belong in UKIP or elsewhere. It never did them any harm, either.
Posted by: Mark Fulford | August 22, 2007 at 16:33
Excellent speech from David Cameron. As David rightly says Labour have only tried to tackle the tail-end of the problem with punitive legislation heaped upon punitive legislation. Nothing has been done to look at he nexus of cause and effect, in particular the breakdown of families, which is at the core of broken Britain. David Cameron's speech tells us that he knows legislation alone will not work. The causes of social breakdown are much deeper.
Posted by: Tony Makara | August 22, 2007 at 16:45
"If you think that helping errant children learn respect is all about beating it into them, you probably belong in UKIP or elsewhere. It never did them any harm, either." I thought that it was public schools like Eton that thrashed the pupils and tolerated nasty practices such as fagging.
Then you have the Bullingdon Club members trashing restaurants etc. They could afford to pay off the owners rather than face the wrath of the criminal justice system, as "lesser mortals" would. A vandal is a criminal, no matter which school or college he attended.
The Cameroons hypocrisy and sanctimony is nauseating.
Posted by: Chavs and Dave | August 22, 2007 at 16:45
Satire does not resonate unless it captures the truth, the folly within Mr F.
Ask yourself this, if you were a homeowner, like Gary Newlove, frightened about keeping your family safe *today* from an immediate threat of local hoodies who are blighting your life, would Cameron's 'hug a hoodie' speech have reassured you?
Posted by: Think about it | August 22, 2007 at 16:48
Not denying that the Labour spin and smears haven't been successful Chavs. Many people have fallen for it including, it seems, you. Doesn't mean that Cameron was in any way wrong though. I also note that our bleeding heart do gooding liberal Shadow Home Sec David Davis has never criticised this approach either.
Slightly O/T It is a a bit of a shame that it wasn't Davis that gave this speech today. Shadow Cabinet members MUST start to improve their profile and not every iniiative need be lead by Cameron.
Posted by: malcolm | August 22, 2007 at 16:50
Malcolm, David Davis is too much of a gentleman to criticise Cameron. Contrast that with language that the Cameroons use to denigrate anyone who disagrees with them, e.g. Graham Brady.
Posted by: Chavs and Dave | August 22, 2007 at 16:57
It's not the job of government to make the public realise anything. That's the whole problem - governments think they know better!
Posted by: Alan | August 22, 2007 at 17:12
I agree with 90% of the comments on here - Mr. Scott Wilson should go back to his labour friends. He is like the people before the second world war who kept pooh poohing the Nazi's plans for expansion. And the incredibly boring liberal left, will be the first to shout, Murder, Murder, as soon as their areas become infected. I come back to the man interviewed by the BBC just after Chernobyl exploded who said, 'It's all a Capitalist smear campaign, after all YOU CAN'T SEE ANYTHING'.!!! I did hear that interview myself!
It may sound undemocratic, but apart from shaking up the CPS, and insisting that they get their priority's right, I would be tempted to do SOMETHING about opportunist and apparently free from a general sense of responsibility (rather like the 'ambulance chasers) - solicitors and lawyers. I know that there is the presumption of innocense, but even that can be taken too far the other way. The fact that a many times murderer's past record is kept from the jurors, and in numerous cases over the years, recently, this has led to much more lenient sentences than should otherwise have been, once more leaving the INNOCENT public exposed.
Posted by: Patsy Sergeant | August 22, 2007 at 17:15
Ask yourself this, if you were a homeowner, like Gary Newlove, frightened about keeping your family safe *today* from an immediate threat of local hoodies who are blighting your life, would Cameron's 'hug a hoodie' speech have reassured you?
Just so long as my friend was with me....
Peacekeeper
Posted by: CCTV | August 22, 2007 at 17:27
"...would Cameron's 'hug a hoodie' speech have reassured you?"
No, but his speech on "Thugs, beyond redemption?" would have.
I agree with David Cameron that criminal behaviour in any age group should be punished quickly and effectively. I generally fear criminal adults more than criminal youths, so I also agree with him that we need to be more effective at breaking the progression from lawless child to lawless adult. Finally, I’m in agreement with David Cameron that a stick alone is not enough. Underneath the “hoodies” are children who require emotional nourishment, not just discipline, if they’re to stand any chance of breaking their mould.
You’d do well to balance the emotive example of Gary Newlove with equally emotive and far more numerous cases of children whose lives ended on the street, before they really began.
Posted by: Mark Fulford | August 22, 2007 at 17:27
Think about it - the selective quotes you give perhaps need the context. They were being delivered to those worthy individuals who try to stop those young people becoming the sort who kill. maim & frighten others. The people he refers as "you" in "you stand for love".
He had already dealt with the police and the need for enforcement and punishment for those who are criminal. He then asked how to stop that situation developing - but that's either too difficult for you or you are posting quasi Labour spin for another purpose.
Posted by: Ted | August 22, 2007 at 17:31
Cameron's speech is fine so far as it goes but I would like some answers to a couple of practical, real world questions:
1. Will he give homeowners who defend themselves against intruders the benefit of the doubt, given that the police clearly couldn't care less about protecting (as opposed to prosecuting) them?
2. Will he take firm steps to curb the binge drinking which disfigures our town centres on Friday nights; spawns violence and disorder; wastes NHS time and resources; and is fuelling an epidemic of ill health whose cost will fall on all of us?
Posted by: Michael McGowan | August 22, 2007 at 17:43
Can we propose a law to force mobile phone manufacturers to change the design of phones so that music cannot be played through the loudspeaker?
I had to get off a bus again the other night because I couldn't stand it. Two different people playing two different tracks this time.
It makes travelling on public transport so unpleasant, even more unpleasant than it is already.
Posted by: realpolitik | August 22, 2007 at 20:26
Will he take firm steps to curb the binge drinking which disfigures our town centres on Friday nights; spawns violence and disorder;
They should simply build 'drunk tanks' on the edge of every major town in some godforsaken area and simply lock them up until sober.
In fact I don't know why they don't contract for underground holding cell-blocks to be built and leased in areas so they are ready for contingencies like riots etc. Even buying a multi-storey car-park and converting it into holding pens would be a means of containing these idiots....with a modular magistracy in the building for processing.
All-night liquor licences should be auctioned so that the price is reflected in cover charges for bars and off-licences are restricted in areas of problem drinking
Posted by: TomTom | August 22, 2007 at 21:13
Why not bring back the Riot Act, also the Vagrancy Act and then enforce them.
Abolish PACE and bring back a variety of forms of Capital and Corporal Punishment in prisons, and far smaller cells and far harsher prison regimes along with mandatory sentencing and abolition of Jury Trials and having everybody passing through the UK or staying in the UK on a single biometric database accessable by the authorities especially the Police, Military and Security Services.
If people cause trouble then the authorities should be allowed to do whatever is necessary to stop them including beating, kicking them or if necessary, blowing their brains out.
Older methods of firing a warning shot above a crowd and then opening fire if they persisted were very effective at stopping unruly behaviour.
Posted by: Yet Another Anon | August 22, 2007 at 21:35
Back to the top line:
If there is "anarchy" out there, then normal policing isn't going to control it. So, what next?
There are only two alternatives:
(1.) If it's the real thing:
Our Sovereign Lord the King chargeth and commandeth all persons, being assembled, immediately to disperse themselves, and peaceably to depart to their habitations, or to their lawful business, upon the pains contained in the act made in the first year of King George, for preventing tumults and riotous assemblies. God Save the King.
And, yes, that's got nothing whatsoever to do with Europe or building prisons or civil rights or human rights. Once we are that that stage, it's a case of restoring civil order.
(2.) Admitting that talk of "anarchy" and the like is the kind of hyperbole that ranting politicians spout when they're in a tight corner (e.g. trousers down, pants on fire, caught out because the previous bit of rhetoric -- on hospital closures -- exploded like a pack of Swan Vestas in the pocket). And therefore such empty froth should be ignored, the culprit put out to grass, and the whole programme rethought.
Posted by: Ellesmere Dragge | August 22, 2007 at 22:41
"Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime", anyone ?
More New Labour, Tony Bliar-lite nonsense.
Posted by: Stephen Tolkinghorne | August 22, 2007 at 23:06
"Where will we build the new prisons" - banboris, August 22 at 11:53"
If prisons are effectively alternative accommodation for "transgressors", then where we build them is less important than how we fund them. In other words, it is potentially a "stock-neutral housing exercise".
You've heard it here first - social enterprise!
Posted by: Teck Khong | August 22, 2007 at 23:23
"More New Labour, Tony Bliar-lite nonsense."
Every solution offered by Tony Blair was state controlled. By contrast, David Cameron consistently talks about trusting others who have shown they can do the job better. That's the difference that you seem reluctant to acknowledge.
Posted by: Mark Fulford | August 22, 2007 at 23:39
"By contrast, David Cameron consistently talks about trusting others who have shown they can do the job better."
How about trusting vigilante groups ? They'd be a darned sight more effective than the established police 'service' and PCSOs at tackling crime.
What this means is that David Cameron is too scared to make any decisions that would mean showing any real bottle.
British subjects are generally sick and tired of the elected state abdicating its responsiblities with regard to tackling crime. Cameron's schpiel is just the same as that we've been fed by Tony Bliar and Gordy Brown for so many years. Hasn't worked, has it ?
He talks alot, but says nothing !
Posted by: Stephen Tolkinghorne | August 22, 2007 at 23:59
Mark Fulford, August 22, 2007 at 23:39 and the like:
Are we agreed whether there is or is not "anarchy" ( a strong word, that) at the end of every street? Yes or no?
If "yes", "trusting others who have shown they can do the job better" can only amount to something like privatising the riot squad, calling in the vigilantes. If "no", then we are compounding the general and our own misery by out-of-control hyperventilation.
And those solutions to "anarchy" are simplistic and specious:
(1) Get George Dixon out of the Police Station.
That's going down a treat with Mr Mondeo reporting a break-in: nobody to take down the details. It's also going to guarantee that the CPS will be buggered, the defence counsel and His Honour the Judge are going to have a ramp ripping up the inadequate paperwork. And as for the compensation claims ...
(2) Creating "stable homes".
What "instant solution" is that? It's Mom and apple pie stuff. Or does it amount to no cohabitation or hanky-panky without a licence? Something that's not universal SOP among Tory MPs, even. Push it too far and wait for the next sex scandal on the Tory benches? Or is it "Do as I say, not as I do"? Or is it credible that the lesser orders will be bribed to wed with £20 a week, financed by a beer tax?
And that's the sum total of the great Conservative social plan? Hollow laughs all round.
Alternatively, admit that it's the Big Lie technique. Keep repeating it long enough and someone will believe it?
Can anyone imagine that the Conservative Research Department of yore (Rab Butler, Iain Macleod, Reggie Maudling, Keith Joseph and the other Illuminati) would have allowed this shambles of non-policy to trundle out, on issue after issue?
For heaven's sake, stop apologising for serial incompetence and incontinence.
Posted by: Ellesmere Dragge | August 23, 2007 at 00:37
How about trusting vigilante groups ?
No, thank you.
Are we agreed whether there is or is not "anarchy" ( a strong word, that) at the end of every street? Yes or no?
No. I don't know where "anarchy" came from, but it's neither in David Cameron's speech nor at conservatives.com
Anti-social behaviour, on the other hand, is rife. You mock two of the three responses that David Cameron put forward. Does that mean you think that stable homes and police on the beat play no part in the solution?
Posted by: Mark Fulford and the like | August 23, 2007 at 07:27
"No. I don't know where "anarchy" came from, but it's neither in David Cameron's speech nor at conservatives.com"
Oh Mark, ignorance or denial?
It came from the horse's mouth! Yes, Cameron has been on the airwaves talking about dealing with anarchy. You see, he is actually saying that we are currently in a state of anarchy. What scaremongering rubbish, but if he is right, then his solutions are hopelessly ineffective in dealing with this *immediate* threat.
http://tinyurl.com/2efvtr
"Yesterday, on the Today programme, he said "we are not going to deal with anarchy in the UK unless [we] actually strengthen families and communities."
Care to respond?
Posted by: Think about it | August 23, 2007 at 07:52
He was wrong to use the word "anarchy" bu the substance of what he said was good.
Posted by: Mark Fulford | August 23, 2007 at 08:06
"He was wrong to use the word "anarchy"
Exactly.
Of course it was deliberately chosen to grab the headlines, but it collapsed into farce again as he was either out-of-touch with reality or his proposed solution (long term generational change within family units) was completely inappropriate for the immediate nature of the problem.
This is getting really embarrassing now.
Posted by: Think about it | August 23, 2007 at 08:42
If a building is alight, then the solution does not include installing improved fire protection systems; it needs firefighters' positive intervention.Improved protection systems are to forestall problems in new buildings.
So with anarchy: apprehend & punish now; reinforce family life for the future.
Posted by: Ken Stevens | August 23, 2007 at 08:52
He was right to use the word anarchy!
Posted by: Scotty | August 23, 2007 at 09:13
Given the random shooting of an 11 year old in Croxteth last night by a teenager riding past on a BMX bike I think anarchy is exactly the right word to use.
Cameron's speech was entirely right and he could follow it up by spending today in Croxteth asesssing the local situation.
Posted by: johnC | August 23, 2007 at 09:24
Someone should make a collage of the faces of all the people who have died needlessly, as a result of street crime (knife and gun crime). Of course, the permission of the families is needed. I believe there will be 100 faces of people who have died in the last year. It will be a very powerful image. Also, the number of crimes which have been solved should be shown.
Posted by: Stephen | August 23, 2007 at 09:25
Oh please! Where did you guys grow up?
People who grew up in seaside towns in the 80's will remember how highstreets had to be closed down completely on bank holidays and protected with rows of police meatwagons when gangs of skins (later casuals) came to town to cause a riot.
Casuals were reknowned for carrying knives, as I have first hand experience. Even 'respectable' kids had knives, as the scar in my leg will testify having been stabbed at a party.
Of course it needs dealing with, but save us the hyperbole!
Posted by: Think about it | August 23, 2007 at 09:34
I'm looking for some serious discussion and debate here.
Absent the silly season, and the needs of the media, is there real evidence of growing social disorder? Or are we merely seeing manifestations of the norm, that in a country of 60M there is likely to be repeated, even daily, examples of bad, dangerous behaviour, bullying, aggression, and immature lack of self-control?
Well, to be honest, probably yes. But only up to a point, Lord Copper.
The root cause is fundamental to the state of British society, and has been for centuries, simply because British society is so dynamic. When Hogarth represented "Gin Lane" in 1751 (see http://www.tate.org.uk/tateetc/issue9/hogarth.htm), he was representing that phenomenon in a previous stage.
We are presently in the latest phase of that dynamic. A quarter of a century or more too late (thank you, the Blessed Margaret) we realised that the de-industrialising, the de-skilling of Britain left behind the famous underclass. If all our society can offer the under-educated and (indeed) underprivileged is a succession of McJobs, amid a sqalor of graffiti, cheap booze and tacky "popular culture", we have no hope of changing things.
So let's admit that the mantra "Education x3" is integral to the long-term solution. And, as part of that, recognise that the poverty of state education over decades played a significant part in getting us to this impasse. Add to that a carrot-and-stick: in a phrase: workfare not welfare. Reward stickability: the young adult who applies himself/herself should be commended and rewarded. So, if training to be a green-keeper has to have the status of a "degree", allow it, don't merely mock it: nobody is going to confuse BA (Golf Course Management) with a qualification in brain surgery.
Above all, put our money where our mouths have been too long: with the communities left behind, into social housing and environment. All across Britain we have a ghetto culture (and the largest of the ghetto populations comprises the white -- former -- "working class". There is a massive task of social engineering to be done there. It may well involve the application of dynamite to deprived areas (Hackney, the erstwhile cotton towns, north Sheffield and Barnsley). The reconstruction alone may provide some of the employment, especially if self-help schemes are applied.
I do not have the kind of magic solutions that slip so glibly off certain tongues. And certainly cannot encapsulate them in the dialogue box here. I do know that earlier Conservatives (and I am thinking of the great post-war generation of truly-caring Conservatives: Macmillian, Butler, Hogg and the rest) would not have blanched at the task, would have had programmes, and would not merely blather on with inane sound-bites.
Perhaps we should harken more to Frank Field than the latest shoo-in wunderkind in Central Office.
Posted by: Ellesmere Dragge | August 23, 2007 at 09:55
This is getting really embarrassing now.
Ooh, politician guilty of a little hyperbole. Ignore everything else he said and get out the gallows!
I'm sure that somewhere, once, I read about the world's fastest growing political movement -- or something like that. No exaggeration there, was there, "think about it" ;-)
Posted by: Mark Fulford | August 23, 2007 at 10:16
LoL. :-)
Though you'll be gracious to admit that it has become rather popular with the Cameroons recently, if just the name rather than the fusion!
Posted by: Think about it | August 23, 2007 at 10:22
Jacqui Smith said today that Britain's streets are generally safe.
I felt compelled to compile a list of needless murders. What does generally safe mean to you or I? Beware, I compiled this list rather quickly, some of the murders listed below may not be entirely of this context.
Rhys Jones http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6960094.stm
James Oyebola http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6912900.stm
Garry Newlove http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/merseyside/6947090.stm
Evren Anil http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6948537.stm
Martin Dinnegan http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6254224.stm
Sian Simpson http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6225346.stm
Carlos Eduardo Segove http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6232664.stm
Mikey Brown http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6241224.stm
Annaka Pinto http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6236098.stm
Ben Hitchcock http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6236084.stm
Paul Erhahon http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6570685.stm
Adam Regis http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6551723.stm
Kodjo Yenga http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6659245.stm
Billy Cox http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6729179.stm
Michael Dosunmu http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6460187.stm
James Smartt-Ford http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/6438089.stm
Abu Shahin http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6248250.stm
Abukar Mahamud http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6920301.stm
Kiyan Prince http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6055876.stm
Deividas Strizegauskas http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6366987.stm
Peter Jones http://www.blink.org.uk/pdescription.asp?key=12466&grp=55
Peter Woodhams http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/5278320.stm
Steven Taylor http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/lancashire/6954681.stm
Gladness Numusa Khawula http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/south_yorkshire/6959972.stm
Tom ap Rhys Pryce http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/6191372.stm
Balbir Matharu http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4878352.stm
Ishfaq Ahmed http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/4328732.stm
Posted by: Stephen | August 23, 2007 at 15:09
Here are two more, I forgot to add:
Nathan Foster
Kamilah Peniston
Posted by: Stephen | August 23, 2007 at 16:20