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Traditional Tory you seem to be desperate to find something to criticise, yet you've never told us what you actually want (as far as I'm aware). What do you define as Traditional Conservatism (or Toryism, if you think there's a difference), and maybe then everyone else will be better positioned to understand your grievances.

Anon Copper - did you notice my suggestion at 17.35 yesterday about the possible formation of an elite "flying squad" to saturate trouble spots and bring them back under normal control? I would be very interested in your thoughts on the subject.

There is a moral debate following the tragedy in Liverpool. All this Labour Government offers the British peoplee are things we do not really want or need like 24/7 drinking and casinos. As Conservatives we have promised to review these measures. I hope we also review Sunday trading. Society need a day of reflection and rest and this chimes in with our family values. Sunday trading has a detrimental knock-on effect across the board.

As regards the Police measures. Am all for them. We neded to free the Police of red tape like the 41 arrest forms and stop-and-enquiry forms.

As a 'tru blue' am a little sceptical of election of police commissioners. The last thing we want is police commissioners exposed to the pressure of politically correct lobby groups.

The link between police officer and the Crown should not be compromised.

John Barstow
[email protected]

"As a 'tru blue' am a little sceptical of election of police commissioners. The last thing we want is police commissioners exposed to the pressure of politically correct lobby groups."

I am inclined to agree. I also worry that having to make headlines and play to the crowd would make elected commissioners wary of making tough decisions which may be unpopular, even if they were the right ones to make.

Ash Faulkner - Traditional Tory you seem to be desperate to find something to criticise, yet you've never told us what you actually want (as far as I'm aware). What do you define as Traditional Conservatism?

I have a vision of a Britain in which Christian morality is upheld, and in which the punishment of wickedness and vice takes priority over 'rehabilitation' and 'encouraging diversity'.

It is a Britain in which newcomers will be required to integrate, leaving outside customs in the lands whence they came. In short, it will be a monocultural society based upon centuries of greatness.

I expect the Conservative Party to be broadly committed to such a vision. In my long experience that vision is shared - not always coherently, perhaps - by the vast majority of rank-and-file Tories.

I regard 'Blair's Britain' as a sleazy, seedy, thoroughly unBritish trash culture which deserves to be committed to the dustbin of history - along with anybody who tells us we should 'celebrate' it.

Do I now make myself more clear?

Thank you for that outburst Wang Jerry. Given that the government started a drive to ensure that as many of the armed forces registered to vote, and that we can vote for whoever we want, it really isn't illegal to vote for the tories.

BMc - the whole point about an institution like Sandhurst is that it develops leadership for Command. If the idea of a border police force is serious, command is something that would need to be in place for it to suceed. I do agree with time served on the front line, to go behind a desk from the outset goes in the face of everything that British Leadership is made of whatever your type of uniform.

I don't doubt for one minute that the Police Officers who climb the ladder are good and experienced and deserve to be there. However I would question their ability to lead a force such as a border police force as is being suggested in this proposal. Crime and terrorism are two different areas of expertise.

Defending borders is a military role which is already being carried out by a multitude of organisations in this country. We should do well to remember that, a re-organisation probably isn't needed. I would suggest that a coherent liasion system between agencies such as the MOD, Police, HM C&E and Goverment would enhance the current protection offered to the country.

However i would like to re-iterate that i support these ideas. We've had a wake up call in the party and DC and DD have made an excellent fight back.

Posted by: Matt Wright | August 28, 2007 at 23:18
"Mention of video games was a very small part of the package. The same was the case in the various reports on the radio stations. You seem however to want to misrepresent what his position was and how the media reported it. God knows why. Maybe you just don't like the fact that the last few days have seen us get a clear message across!"

And what was the headline in the metro today, the most read newspaper? Thats right, Cameron says video games are to blame.

In order to win an election you need to do 2 things: Pin the problems of today on the current government and offer our party as having the solutions. The above doesn't do this

Yes the Military certainly do have a role in border control and it has been suggested quite rightly that the Gurkhas would be first-rate. Talking of which why do we slap immigration restriction on the few ex-Gurkhas while we have been so free in allowing in and in major numbers including some who have nothing but enmity to the Crown and the Queen's Peace. Why is that Chindano (murderer of Philip Lawrence) considered worthy of UK residency and not a hard-working ex-Gurkha?

On this theme the upright law abiding are considered the 'outsiders'. And the criminals are conidered the in crowd. Take hunting the sport is traditional encompasses local citizens young, old, rich, poor. And respects society - would not hold a meet on Sunday and supports local charities. The ban has taken police away from
things like burglalry to pandering to a few animals rights extremists.

Strcuture in Society is important. Hence my earlier contribution about the 24/7 society and sunday trading and its adverse impact upon familiy and societal values.

And can I add it was in absorbing Conservative writing and thinking that taught me exposing police to political pressure was not a good idea.

However ripping up those 41 forms and other red tape is a good start and by getting more officers out and about in our communities people will be pleasantly surprized at the difference. in my own village we once had an excellent residnetial Police Officer. - approachable and respected. He did not have to be elected. And if the idea was floated would have considred it 'wasting police time'.

And by the way lets give officer more discretion. if a clip around the ear is enough to teach someone a lesson let that be. And do NOT treat the Officer as a criminal and the young culprit as victim.

John Barstow
[email protected]

Yes the Military certainly do have a role in border control and it has been suggested quite rightly that the Gurkhas would be first-rate. Talking of which why do we slap immigration restriction on the few ex-Gurkhas while we have been so free in allowing in and in major numbers including some who have nothing but enmity to the Crown and the Queen's Peace. Why is that Chindano (murderer of Philip Lawrence) considered worthy of UK residency and not a hard-working ex-Gurkha?

On this theme the upright law abiding are considered the 'outsiders'. And the criminals are conidered the in crowd. Take hunting the sport is traditional encompasses local citizens young, old, rich, poor. And respects society - would not hold a meet on Sunday and supports local charities. The ban has taken police away from
things like burglalry to pandering to a few animals rights extremists.

Strcuture in Society is important. Hence my earlier contribution about the 24/7 society and sunday trading and its adverse impact upon familiy and societal values.

And can I add it was in absorbing Conservative writing and thinking that taught me exposing police to political pressure was not a good idea.

However ripping up those 41 forms and other red tape is a good start and by getting more officers out and about in our communities people will be pleasantly surprized at the difference. in my own village we once had an excellent residnetial Police Officer. - approachable and respected. He did not have to be elected. And if the idea was floated would have considred it 'wasting police time'.

And by the way lets give officer more discretion. if a clip around the ear is enough to teach someone a lesson let that be. And do NOT treat the Officer as a criminal and the young culprit as victim.

John Barstow
[email protected]

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