David Cameron in Afghanistan

David Cameron has arrived in Kabul at the start of a two-day fact finding mission. He warned that the West cannot afford to fail saying:

"There is no room for complacency. There are risks of failing in Afghanistan. We cannot afford to fail. If we fail we will see an increase, an increase in drugs, and dangerous instability in this region."

Cameron praised the work of British troops but said other Nato countries need to take on a greater share of the burden

"Britain is definitely bearing its share of the burden. We need more helicopters, we need more support and we need other Nato countries to play their part,"

Calling for a "hard-headed assessment" of the situation he said that changes are needed in the way the international community was operating, including a single individual to co-ordinate the civilian reconstruction effort and better co-ordination between Nato military forces.He said:

"To make sure that we succeed, we have to take tough, gritty, hard-headed decisions about making sure that there is a greater unity of purpose about what we are doing here.

Comments

[Raj]

What are the chances at least one person will respond and say it is a media stunt? 100%?

[Traditional Tory]

It's a media stunt.

[Ken Stevens]

Omigawd, I bet there'll be another flood here any moment.

[GS]

We all know why we're in Afghanistan, and the consequences of failure. The question is why the UK is playing such a leading role, while others stand back.

When this trip is over, then it's back home and, if Cameron has sense, it's stay at home.

He should leave the visionary statesman saving-the-world stuff to our present plainly bonkers PM, and start setting out policies for Britain.

[dog biter]

If IDS and DC are so keen on sorting out the drug problem, DC could begin by suggesting we eradicate the Afghan opium fields. Fire and brimstone, napalm, whatever you like. Get rid of the smack coming out of Afghanistan and you're on the way to solving a problem. And if the farmers complain. Well, frankly, stuff 'em. If wee're going to lose all those soldier in Afghanistan we might as well come out of it with something positive. Trouble is that Dave has been programmed to say nothing of very great significance at any given time. So expect more "tough, gritty, hard-headed decisions about making sure that there is a greater unity of purpose about what we are doing here."

And yes, after Rwanda this does sound a bit like Dave the world statesman on another publicity trawl.

[Patriot]

I will be interested to see if DC takes up the side of the troops on the ground and goes hard for Brown to finally provide them with the equipment they desperately need.

If he does then it will have been worth the trip. If not I will assume that it's been a PR stunt, and I suspect that most of the military will come to the same conclusion.

They might, of course, just conclude he's a jolly good bloke anyway and that it was nice of him to drop by.

[George Hinton]

Has he taken Patrick Mercer with him as his Defence Adviser?.
If not, why not?. He has the perfect opportunity of commencing his asymmetric gameplan against Gordo in Afghanistan.
DC cannot afford the luxury of playing silly B's. If he is serious about taking on Gordo then pride and hautuer have to be ditched.

[TomTom]

We all know why we're in Afghanistan, and the consequences of failure. The question is why the UK is playing such a leading role, while others stand back.

Now let's have a commitment to The Royal British Legion that they will be supplied with names of ALL wounded military personnel and that it will not be hidden away under the 30 Year Rule or otherwise kept secret as at present

[Foxy]

Is Liam Fox with Dave? I hope that he has not been sidelined.

[malcolm]

Cameron, is right. We don't have enough troops there and if we carry on as we are we will eventually lose.

[TomTom]

Cameron, is right. We don't have enough troops there and if we carry on as we are we will eventually lose.

Posted by: malcolm | August 01, 2007 at 16:16

Statements of the obvious repeated tend to be correct....as for more troops...that would require a Conscription Act and I doubt Parliament would pass it.

Maybe we could muster Afghans living in this country into a fighting force - seems silly for them to be living here while British soldiers are fighting there....maybe the Afghans could supply some manpower for our side....or are they judge hedging their bets ?

[ToMTom]

or are they just hedging their bets ?

[Johnny Smythe]

'We don't have enough troops there' - spot on and judging by the way that DC embraced Dame Pauline Neville-Jones's report last week she is going to get the first two Batallions for her Civil Defence Force, and not the Generals in Helmand! Until DC and young Giddy Osborne accept that we have to make a serious spending commitment on Defence then no matter how many times DC shows up in Iraq or Afghanistan it won't count two hoots for anything. Only when DC stands in front of the troops in Camp Bastion and pledges 2 billion a year extra in spending (at least) will Gordon Brown have something to worry about. Oh and on the poppy erradication idea...two things count against. First, Pres Karzai will not let it happen and second the Tali-mullahs would kiss your b*tt as it would drive up their recruitment levels by a factor of 10.

[TOmTom]

Spend as much as you want - 10% British Army is foreign - there simply are not enough 16 year olds interested in joining the British Army - and soon the school leaving age rises to 18.

If you look at the actual numbers of school-leavers the Army requires you can see the demographics do not match not to mention the poor physical and educational state of many school leavers.

It is not simply money - it is finding personnel who want to volunteer, and who are not obese

[Andrew]

Tomtom is right about the demographic issues - these would be horrendous even without the daily bad headlines.

There's a need for some fresh thinking here. For example, why are we gradually winding down the Gurkhas over the years? Pay them properly and expand their numbers - we already know they make outstanding infantry

Similarly, "recruit" (aka pinch) experienced soliders from English speaking nations - you don't even need to pay for their training this way, freeing up money for appropriate incentives.

[John Moss]

The answer to Afghani opium is legal supply of the poppy to the world's drug companies.

There is currently a shortage of opiate-based painkillers for medical use because it is next to impossible to cultivate opium outside those areas where it is mainly used for illegal drugs.

Afghanistan is, conveniently, a police state with us in charge and if we got the drug companies to guarantee to buy the poppy harvest we solve two problems in one. we create a legal, agro-economy in Afghanistan, off which their traditional nut, seed and fruit farmers can diversify, and we sideline the drug barons (teliban) who currently use their ability to "protect" the farmers from crude eradication policies, as thier angle.

[Grenadierfan]

I disagree with both the comments and what DC said. The Afghan mission has no objective and has consequently already failed. Anybody with a sense of history should know it is doomed and all we are doing is guarding the world's largest opium crop. We should withdraw.

[Icarus]

Right, so Afghanistan is all about drugs. Discuss

[Traditional Tory]

Cameron, is right. We don't have enough troops there and if we carry on as we are we will eventually lose.

Half the Russian army were there and they lost. We're wasting our time, wasting lives, and wasting resources.

There will be even more of a 'Brown bounce' when he pulls the troops out.

Cameron's pathetic attempt to grandstand just fell flat on its face again, and he's a fine one to be talking about drugs.

[Tapestry]

Cameron visited North Wales Police recently not reported in media. One of the coppers he met is a mate of mine. Cameron understood exactly what the problems were and would be an excellent Prime Minister in his opinion. I am sure he will be understanding well the problems faced by our troops over in Afghanistan. Those who meet Cameron tend to support him. Unlike Brown, Blaie etc, he's impressive as a person.

[Torygirl]

The problem is that history is ignored. We should never have gone into Afghanistan. If the Russians had to withdraw, what hope have we got.

I agree with John Moss at 20:53 The best solution would be to pay the poppy farmers for their crop. This hopefully would stop the illegal drug trade.

Dave has enough problems to sort out here, but it looks as if he wants to strut the world stage like Blair.

[Traditional Tory]

Cameron visited North Wales Police recently not reported in media. One of the coppers he met is a mate of mine. Cameron understood exactly what the problems were

Isn't the main problem in North Wales an evil speed camera toting Chief Constable named Brunstrom who is up for persecuting motorists while advancing all the usual fashionable PC causes.

Was that the problem Cameron outlined, Tapestry?

[TomTom]

We should never have gone into Afghanistan. If the Russians had to withdraw, what hope have we got.

The Soviets had a crappy army badly trained and using tactics from the 1940s. They are also a disaster in Chechnya.

The Russians are a bad example - with the exception of ICBMs their armed forces are not very good - they fouht in Afghanistan for the first time since 1945...they had no combat experience apart from suppressing civilians in Poland, Hungary, Czechoslovakia

They sent a rag-tag conscript army into Afghanistan and used the wrong tactics. WE had to eal with Afghanistan since that it where the 9/11 pople trained on Afghan aircraft.

WE shouldn't have fought in 1914...then we would not have needed to fight in 1939 - or to sign the Maastricht Treaty....it would all have happened automatically

[malcolm]

OK Tomtom you say that there is nothing we can do to provide more troops for Afghanistan but in a later post conclude that we had to deal with Afghanistan because of 9/11. So what do you propose?
Please just for once give us the wisdom of your own thoughts rather than just sneering at me and others.

[Al Hamilton]

"So what do you propose?"

I say get out and let the b*****s cut their own throats

[ToMTom]

OK Tomtom you say that there is nothing we can do to provide more troops for Afghanistan but in a later post conclude that we had to deal with Afghanistan because of 9/11. So what do you propose?
Please just for once give us the wisdom of your own thoughts rather than just sneering at me and others.

Posted by: malcolm | August 02, 2007 at 09:58

Sneering at you Malcolm ? Your paranoia is coming to the fore...still you must be used to people considering you stupid.

No NATO country will provide more troops in Afghanistan...Germany's demographics are much worse than ours and the collapse in the birthrate after 1964 is showing up with a vengeance in the current draft

I suggested a Conscription Act - simply call up all 18 year olds - men and women for 12-24 months military service. We need an Army of around 250.000 with probably another 200.000 in the Reserves.

It would have beneficial effects on obesity and maturity. It is the only way to find the manpower. The British Army is ludicrously small but the biggest reduction took place under Conservatives Governments - just look how big the British Army was in 1975 167,100 men

by 1997 it was 108,000 men.....in 2006 it is 107,000

[Traditional Tory]

While there may be much to commend conscription we don't need it for Afghanistan.

The sooner we get out, the better.

Ditto Iraq.

[malcolm]

Glad you were able to come up with such a sensible and realistic solution Tomtom. Thank you so much.

[TomTom]

Glad you were able to come up with such a sensible and realistic solution Tomtom. Thank you so much.

Posted by: malcolm | August 02, 2007 at 15:56

Grow up Malcolm. The Armed Forces currently recruit 24.000 a year (if they can) for the three services including women. Soldiers used to sign on for 22 years but politicians started turfing them out early to save on pension costs.

Then they started saving money on ammunition, clothing, kit and sold off their quarters to William Hague's Oxford friend Guy Hands; then closed down the Military Hospitals under John Major having had huge Defence cuts throughout the 18 years.

An increasing proportion of male births in this country is Muslim so the Army has recruiting problems going forward. That why a Sikh Regiment was proposed and quickly discounted for fear of encouraging a Muslim Regiment.

So the only way to increase the size of the British Army without creating Muslim Regiments is to have an "opt-out" system whereby everyone is conscripted for a Gap Year.

You think if David Cameron says "Pretty Please" the French, Spaniards, Slovaks, Poles and Germans will fall over themselves to send 20.000 troops to Afghanistan.......naivety doesn't get you far in the Big Bad World.

[Miss Tooty]

Why isnt Dave here questioning the labour party about minor offenders having to give DNA. But I'm sure Dave knows what he's doing. HA!