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undo italics, sorry!

Anon Troll: Richard Carey is a slimey, low-life slag of a man.

I've been literally "slagged off", it seems, by an anonymous poster who doesn't dare put his own name to his view of me - I'm obviously going up in the world! But I am pleased to know my reputation has gone before me, and I'm looking forward to meeting him...


Richard Tyndall: I presume your fatuous and infantile posting was an attempt at a smeer

Well, I was on my lunch break, so it was a hurried post - next time I'll be sure to make a more comprehensive job of it. If you can spell "fatuous" and "infantile" you probably should put the "a" in "smear" as well, by the way.

Seriously, I was also pretty offended by your (fatuous?) suggestion above that as I currently work for and support the Party I should be somehow disqualified from doing so in future? You'll understand my thinking that that had the whiff of opposition about it, I'm sure. On that basis, though, it is fair to say I would have reclaimed a couple of hours of my evening tonight!

'I don't trust people who stand for elected office'-Richard Tyndall. What people like Churchill,Iain Mcleod,Alec Douglas-Home,Margaret Thatcher. Are those the 'successful politicians' to whom you refer? I have to say I'm beginning to think you're a bit of a weirdo who would be an embarrasment to any political party.

(Close your italics!)

Or not?

Malcolm,

Since I consider the parties to be a corruption of the Parliamentary Democratic system I would very much hope that that principle would indeed be an embarrasment to them. But it is refreshing to see Cameroons admit that they consider individual questioning and criticism to be synonymous with being a weirdo. Says a lot about the Cameroon view of the membership and supporter base.

Perhaps he should start canvasing sheep.

Well I'm afraid long years of working selflessly for the party alongside blatant careerists have taught me - like Richard Tyndall - to distrust those who are anxious to achieve elective office.

I've also noticed that these days professional people with demanding jobs and family responsibilities do not have the time to devote to such matters.

The calibre of local councillors - once nearly all respectable local businessmen - has diminished considerably over the past 30 years.

They very often tend these days to be a mixture of low-grade political wannabees and people who are desperate for the money. Don't tell me it's not true. I know plenty of both.

I suspect that these evening meetings (which no way would I be prepared to attend!) are attracting the type of person who does not have a wife and family at home, and that's a thoroughly bad thing.

Richard Carey,

you follow a tried and tested sytem of trying to undermine an opoonent and thankfully you are not very good at it.

First you attack them for having insulted you and use a partial quote to justify that. At no time did I say that because you work for the party you should be disqualified from anything. What I said was that the:

"..lust for power without principle shows just how unfit you and the other Cameroons are to have anything to do with the Tory party."

Note the bit about principle which you carefully chose to ignore.

You then attempted a very amatuerish smear based on my name and when that was rebuffed you fell back on straight misreprensentation of my earlier comments relying on the fact that no one would be bothered to go back and check.

Now I don't actually know whether you are the low life that the anonymous poster describes you as but on your record today I would have to say that you are an extremely deceitful person who most certainly is not worthy of anyones trust.

With peple like you supporting him Cameron is sure to continue losing the support of large parts of the Tory party.

Well I'm afraid long years of working selflessly for the party alongside blatant careerists have taught me... to distrust those who are anxious to achieve elective office.

Then that's probably going to stop you voting at any election. Every politician is anxious to seek election, bar a few crazies - otherwise they wouldn't campaign. It's like saying an employer shouldn't trust anyone who is anxious to get a job with their company.

With peple like you supporting him Cameron is sure to continue losing the support of large parts of the Tory party.

Which you're not part of anyway, given your open contempt of people like me who voluntarily work for political parties, so I'm not sure why this is your problem...

TT councillors have no power. give them back their powers and lo and behold you will get experienced people interested. it's the result of the overcentralisation in our society. Cameron's onto it.

Whilst I am not a member of the party I have spent all my adult life trying to make sure that candidates expounding Conservative principles got elected.. with some success.

What has changed now is that the Conservative party and most of the nu-Tory candidates they are promoting under Cameron have little concept of the principles and core beliefs that make them worthy of election.

As a result it is not just my problem but a problem for everyone who believes in a basic set of principles on the relationship between the government and the people.

Although you are right to the extent that it is not primarily my problem, it is yours. There are hundreds of thousands of people like me who wil simply not be convinced by your childish claims that we should support the Tories because they are the Tories. For as long as they fail to promote principled Tory policies we will simply say 'no thanks' and watch the party slide to successive defeats with no remorse on our part.

You want our support and our active help in getting elected then you have to earn it. Until you do we will continue to point out to all who will listen just how far you are from deserving to form the next government.

I thought you were some minor party functionary Traditional Tory? Didn't you once write under another of your pseudonyms Mcartney or Forsyth I forget which , that you would never reveal your real name because you were frightened you might lose that job?
Richard Tyndall, I don't admit anything of the kind.You are a very strange person undoubtedly.

To Richard Tyndall: Thanks for that, despite calling my commitment childish!

I think that we should make this our last correspondence on this thread - especially as the editorial team is I think overseas at the moment. You and I are obviously not going to agree on the details, and I'm sure our personal disagreements on this are probably getting pretty boring to our fellow readers and posters!

I think it's better for all if we agree to disagree another day for now.

Can't be bothered to trawl through all these trollish comments, but I would love to know what these 'Conservative principles' that neo ukipers keep talking about are in their minds. I can't help feeling they're akin to muslim fundermentalists refering to their principles.

Shame they don't talk to real people. Might realise the world has moved on.

Andrew Woodman

Well I am certainly not a Ukiper, old, new or otherwise. And since you seem to have to ask what the basic principles of Conservatism should be then it is clear you are one of those who I have been criticising for lusting after power without principles.

For just one example, start with one of those matters that concerns all the people I talk to on a daily basis. Try lowering the tax burden so people don't feel most of their hard earned cash is being taken by the government to be wasted on whatever their particular pet project might be. I am sure Cameron's Green taxes are really appealing there. And the fact that he won't commit the Tories to reducing taxes from their current ludicrously high levels. If you are stuck in your ivory tower then perhaps that sort of thing doesn't bother you but it certaoinl;y bothers a lot of normal people I talk to every day.

Your world might have 'moved on' but for most of the people in this country it is still very much stuck in a nasty little socialist past which is now being advocated by all the main parties.

I agree with Huntsmans post at 08.26. I would just add to Sentence 6 in your conclusions. Sentence 6 being... 'The real motivation behind all this is Mr. Mirage's own careerist ambitions and his bitterness that another Muslim - Sayeeda Warsi (who is a woman) was preferred to him for advancement to the HoL's. My addition is in the brackets!

Remember this....???? To be uploaded on to U-Tube shortly...apparently. Enjoy!!!!

Discarded video exposes young pretender's doubts
30 September 2005

By Brendan Carlin, Political Correspondent

Tony Blair disclosed to selected journalists in Brighton that he was an admirer of David Cameron.
The Prime Minister would rate the Tory pretender even more highly if he knew precisely how yesterday's supremely slick Cameron leadership launch was put together.
A discarded rehearsal video, seen by The Daily Telegraph, shows a shirt-sleeved Mr Cameron putting himself through Blairite-type torture of private cross-examination and rude interruption by his advisers to get his message right.
The tape almost rivals Rory Bremner's celebrated television parody of a hapless Mr Blair being hectored by Alastair Campbell to get his act together.
It shows him agonising over his launch message, and getting completely lost at one point. "It's hopeless, I haven't thought this through. I don't know what I want to say," laments the man who aspires to be Prime Minister.
He asks advisers whether he should tackle the issue of his privileged background head-on. "No", they chorus. Mr Cameron's background is no big issue "because you are a young, modern person that people can relate to".
The tape shows Mr Cameron saying in private: "We need to almost create a new party. . . to look, feel, think, behave like a different party."
He also, incautiously, lauds the role of the State, saying that although he believes in limited government, "that does not mean we should be limited in our aspirations for what government can do".

'but I would love to know what these 'Conservative principles'

Well, based on IDS and the editor of this site's views, that would have to be no abortion,no gay marriage but lots of war!

that would have to be no abortion,no gay marriage but lots of war!

Posted by: Not modern at all | August 02, 2007 at 06:26

So Churchillian it makes your eyes weep !

Malcolm - I thought you were some minor party functionary Traditional Tory?

I have held many posts within the party, Malcolm, none of them remunerated and none likely to lead to anything resembling a 'career'.

Didn't you once write that you would never reveal your real name because you were frightened you might lose that job?

I doubt that I ever wrote that I was frightened of losing my 'job' but the oppressive treatment meted out to Ali Miraj clearly shows that if anybody dares rebel against the current dictatorship Cameron will rub them out like a gangster.

Sceptics are therefore well advised to post under pseudonyms. What intrigues me is that so many dyed-in-the-wool sycophants - people who would jump to their feet clapping and cheering if Cameron broke wind - feel the need to do the same.

It's intriguing. Perhaps like Mr Lit they are hedging their bets.

Richard, I love the idea of my living in an ivory tower. You couldn't really be further from the truth but there we are.

We've said we'll share the proceeds of growth. That seems a sensible policy as we don't know what what the books will be in when we get in. It's OK having a slash and burn policy from day one, but with so many people employed by the state, the media and the Labour party would destroy us and we would lose millions of votes from people who's job we'll take off them.

The real problem is you want to stay ideologically pure and have no sense of pragmatism. Do that and we'll end up a one party state.

Richard, I love the idea of my living in an ivory tower. You couldn't really be further from the truth but there we are.

We've said we'll share the proceeds of growth. That seems a sensible policy as we don't know what what the books will be in when we get in. It's OK having a slash and burn policy from day one, but with so many people employed by the state, the media and the Labour party would destroy us and we would lose millions of votes from people who's job we'll take off them.

The real problem is you want to stay ideologically pure and have no sense of pragmatism. Do that and we'll end up a one party state.

Richard, I love the idea of my living in an ivory tower. You couldn't really be further from the truth but there we are.

We've said we'll share the proceeds of growth. That seems a sensible policy as we don't know what what the books will be in when we get in. It's OK having a slash and burn policy from day one, but with so many people employed by the state, the media and the Labour party would destroy us and we would lose millions of votes from people who's job we'll take off them.

The real problem is you want to stay ideologically pure and have no sense of pragmatism. Do that and we'll end up a one party state.

Apologies for the triple posting.

"We've said we'll share the proceeds of growth. That seems a sensible policy"

Sensible to you maybe, but the TaxpayersAlliance along with many others have pointed out that 'policy' is meaningless waffle.

"we don't know what what the books will be in when we get in"

Laughable, embarrassing rubbish.

The rest of what you wrote is equally meaningless rubbish. Of course we have a very good idea of the country's debt, liabilities, growth forecasts etc to base a plan on.

To argue otherwise is simply ignorance or an attempt to deceive.

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