A black Friday for Brown

There are bad news stories for the Government wherever you turn today...

The Independent chooses to headline the fact that private debt now exceeds national income.

Earlier today I noted the fact that Labour are engaging again with Muslim extremists - probably for electoral reasons.

The Telegraph revealed an alarming number of troops leaving the armed forces - a situation described as a "crisis" by Liam Fox.

Forty Labour MPs are set to rebel against Brown on the EU Treaty.

The Times notes how record numbers of vulnerable children are unjustly being taken away from their natural parents and rushed, irreversibly, into adopted families because of Labour targets.

And then, of course, there is the social breakdown highlighted by the recent crime wave.  This is what this morning's Mail thunders:

"What on earth is the point of ministers talking about tougher penalties, when their failure to build enough prisons has led to such gross overcrowding that courts are under pressure to impose non-custodial sentences?  How can they promise a crackdown on drunken yobbery, when they themselves have encouraged binge-drinking with all-hours pub opening?  And do they seriously believe their declassification of cannabis to a class C drug hasn't made matters worse?"

Meanwhile in another speech today, David Cameron has identified Labour's neglect of the family as the central cause of Britain's broken society:

"All too often good behaviour is matched with punishment, poor behaviour with rewards.  Institutions - like schools – whose independence should be championed and whose role in nurturing values of service and discipline is so essential – are too often undermined.  A system of rights that seems to fly in the face of common sense is introduced and repeatedly sanctioned.  Most important of all a tax and benefit system is built up over time that sends signals, and helps to create a culture, that undermines families, penalises commitment and reinforces family and social breakdown.  It is time for us to recognise that we cannot go on as we are.  Just as there was nothing inevitable about economic decline at the end of the 1970s, so there is nothing inevitable about social decline in our current decade."

I read that as a signal that married families will be priority number one when it comes to sharing those proceeds of growth.

Read the full text of the Conservative leader's speech here.  In it he called for a new social covenant: a "national recognition that it is not just up to the Government to take responsibility for the state of our nation, it is up to all of us."

Comments

[Tony Makara]

Gordon Brown and the spin-machine are trying to create the illusion that we have some sort of 'New' government. Today's headines are a nice little reminder that the more things change, the more they stay the same. The news that personal debt exceeds GDP certainly reflects everything that is flawed with Labour's ersatz-economy. Gordon Brown's big idea of using debt and spending to fuel growth is naive and wreckless, causing misery to millions with its buy-now-pay-later culture.

[red dragon]

To be brutally honest, the Labour Party could endure two whole months of "black Fridays" and still win the election at a canter, so far ahead are they, and thats a sad fact.

Unfortunately, sending a no-hoper (no hope of ever making PM) and a has-been (IDS) to present the Tory "action plan" shows a remarkable lack of ambition in whats sure to become an election year.

Drastic measures need drastic solutions.
If the conservatives were to offer the UK public a national referendum on cannabis and its legislation, and let the public play a part in re-writing the laws so they are more "in fitting" with the science which is available today, the pro-cannabis support this would generate would knock lumps out of the currently seemingly unassailable lead the Labour Party has for this coming election.

Taking voting "market share" from across all socio-demographics, and not just the usual "yo-yo" constituencies.

Wholesale gains for not much effort, and perhaps we would get something which resembles accurate drug awareness/education as a result.

If you took the time to ask them, the UK cannabis community would be the first to agree that more information is needed, so people can better assess the risk involved with using cannabis, and for whatever reason they may give.

In the meantime we have normally draconian US senators offering Medical Marijuana Licenses, at the behest of practicing physicians who are signing prescriptions which allow people to grow their own cannabis. A clear indicator if ever one was needed, that cannabis has a place in the community, and according to medical practitioners too? Surely the people best qualified to comment?

Yet government after government, (and even after admitting "wholesale" cannabis use within this current Cabinet), refuse to even communicate on the matter.

Don't offer the same incentives as every other party is offering, (rob from peter to pay paul).

Offer something which will change peoples lives. Real people, who live on council estates in Manchester, or Swansea.

People who live a working class way of life.

A way of life that you (The Tories) need to get up close and personal with if you are to make a difference to the current political climate in the UK!

You don't think all those regional accents currently serving in the Labour government are by accident do you?

Promise a national referendum (with sincerity), and close the gap in the polls.

Red Dragon
http://cannazine.co.uk
http://cannabisnews2.com

[Graham D'Amiral]

Gordon Brown has enjoyed a total lack of media scrutiny in his first few weeks in charge, winning applause for competent handling of terrorism, floods and foot & mouth, and a couple of reviews of minor government policies has been written up as a complete break with the Blair years.

However this week we have started to see that once the mist clears all the problems that loomed large in Blairs Britain haven't disappeared with the arrival of our new Prime minister. This week we've had a damning report warning the closure of A&E departments is putting patients lives at risk, we've learnt the government are powerless to deport even convicted murderers, a judge was forced to release a violent criminal because the prison service were unable to provide the facilities for him to demonstrate to the parole board he was were fit for release, we've had another terrible reminder how too many of our cities are blighted by gun crime, we learn that survival rates from cancer in Britain are apallingly low, figures show that we are taking in more asylum seekers than we are managing to deport and so the list of failings goes on.

[tired and emotional]

Sorry, I zoned out, what was it you were saying?

[michael m]

Even all of this seems to be insufficient to get every front bencher and Conservative MP using every branch of the media to ram home- with real anger- the failings of this Government, which is only the last one but this time in sheep's clothing.

Today there was a report thatwe are one of the worst in Europe for stroke treatment and earlier this week the worse for cancer- yet where was any Conservative voice?

I am a long standing Conservative member living in a highly marginal Labour seat. The lack of any apparant fight by our Parliamentary party is betraying any hope hope we have of getting rid of the incumbent,

They are a pathetic lot

[Mountjoy]

Agree 100% - married families need targeted tax cuts - because life in Britain is becoming even more difficult (even unbearable) for families. It's not much of a country to grow up in if you're a kid either. No wonder emigration figures are on the up as British people head elsewhere for a better life; this is Labour's true legacy and not much for them to be proud of.

[Graeme Archer]

I tend to agree with michael m @ 13.52. Whether you 'get' or 'don't get' the social responsibility agenda -- with every day that passes, clearly (as Matthew Parris has been saying for months) a clarion call for traditional Toryism -- it is unspeakable that we don't hear more from Tory MPs and other shadow cabinet members. And no, Liam Fox getting his eight zillionth mention on ConHome frontpage doesn't count. Where are they all? Who represents a constituency that doesn't teem with the evidence to support the party leadership's agenda about social breakdown and the broken society and our prescription for improvement?

@ Tony Makara: I thought exactly the same as you this morning, listening in my semi-conscious state to 'Today'. The bounce is ending and business is returning to normal. There's only so many days that even our nightmare media can pretend either that the same problems we faced under Blair have evaporated, or that Cameron's speeches aren't constantly, relentlessly, about solving these problems.

@ Red dragon: grow up. Learn some neuroscience and psychiatry. The hypothesis that cannabis use is just a latent factor associated with schizophreniform disorder, rather than a causal route into it, is (of course - being a scientist) not proven. But the evidence shows much more strongly in favour of the latter, not the former, hypothesis. Leaving aside this vastly under-rated important medical health topic, the signal sent to the criminal class in any community by the down-grading of cannabis abuse has been a wholly avoidable, completely predictable, 100% negative disaster.

[George Hinton]

DC has an open goal to aim for, and any subject matter to use as a ball.
NuLab and the crisis that we are seeing reminds me of the last years of the Conservatives, headless chickens reeling from one problem to another.
DC was quite good on the BeeB news at lunchtime, being questioned about the Liverpool shooting.
More than anything though, the country needs to be galvanised into action. The sheer inertia brought about by a cult of dependancy, NuLab and thoughtlessness has to be changed and the electorate ennervated to start asking serious questions of NuLab and just what has exactly been achieved in the last 10 years.

[HF]

David Cameron was very good on John Gaunt show around 12 noon today. Many callers thereafter said they would be voting Conservative.

A very good end to a week with some bad own goals.

If only all the people around Dave were up to the job.

[truthsayer]

Red Dragon gives us all the reason we could want to ban cannabis. It's effect on him is plain for all to read, and supports the evidence of a damaging effect on the user's intellect. It's use is related to criminality, and mental disorder in addition to it's damaging effect on intellect. What is far worse, it's use clearly leads to socialist tendencies.

[David Gold]

Out of interest, how many of those who criticise the efforts of the Front Bench and PPCs are actually out there doing their bit? Or are some of them simply waiting for other people to get out of the arm chairs and do the work? If anyone has time to spare and needs something to do, in Eltham - a key marginal target seat - we can take as many people as are on offer. Email me : davidgold 4 eltham @ gmail dot com.

[Jonathan Powell]

Red Dragon gives us all the reason we could want to ban cannabis. It's effect on him is plain for all to read, and supports the evidence of a damaging effect on the user's intellect. It's use is related to criminality, and mental disorder in addition to it's damaging effect on intellect. What is far worse, it's use clearly leads to socialist tendencies.

All of which might be relevant, if it weren't for the fact that banning drugs such as cannabis does not stop people using them. Indeed, cannabis is already banned in this country (as are handguns, with the effect that all criminals who wish to own a gun can easily acquire one whereas law-abiding citizens are left defenseless) and yet it continues to be consumed by large numbers of people, just as people continued to drink under Prohibition.

The main effect of criminalizing drug use is to restrict the supply and thus increase the price, creating an opportunity for criminal gangs to make large profits and forcing addicts to commit further crimes (such as burglary or mugging) to finance their habit.

[michael m]

I can assure David Gold that we are working down here in the South East for a victory. The point I have been making for endless days on this blog is that the support we are getting from the Front Bench and the Parliamentary Conservative Party has been pathetic. Theie invisibility has done them no service whatsoever- when I read that the Political Commentators are saying they have virtually given up, prefer their other and more lucrative jobs etc etc I know that I am not alone in this perception.

Churchill, Thatcher and Blair would neverhave tolerated this inertia, especially when there have been so many open goals in recent weeks and days

How can we get through to Cenral Office what a lot of us are thinking? Where is the Party Chairman?

[david]

Surely this is the official Conservative Party policy on drugs isn't it?

http://www.alanduncan.org.uk/legalisationofdrugs.html

[John Craig]

Michael M

Our shadow ministers are not listening to you. I agree - they should be attacking constantly now - where are they?

I would recommend every ConHome Conservative with a sitting member - especially one in the shadow cabinet to get hold of them and get their a***s into gear and give us some hope.

Brown has had his bounce - the silly season is nearly over. Lets get our act together now!

[Red Dragon]

Graeme Archer;
If you don't understand the reasons for the initial legislation against cannabis Graeme, perhaps it would be wise not to get involved in the topic in the first place?

The reasons cannabis is illegal have nothing to do with neuroscience and psychiatry. These fields of science would have been in their respective infancies and played no part in the campaign to demonize marijuana.

The evidence you give has only prevailed in the last 20-30 years or so. And whilst the majority of the public now believe this to be propaganda lies designed to enforce the law, hence such high cannabis use figures, a large number of the cannabis consuming public are actually keen to see clinical trials carried out and I would have thought this is exactly what you need to cement your own viewpoint, that cannabis is dangerous?

Perhaps this is the opportunity we need to put cannabis to bed once and for all.

If you are confident in your research you would be sure of proving your point right? So do the trials, then ask the public what they want to do, and act on their reply!

Its a novel concept. Called Democracy!

Going back to the 20's, health and safety were the last things J Edgar Hoover and Andrew W Mellon had on their minds when they planned this publicity campaign. Check wikipedia (search "Andrew W Mellon" or "Harry J Anslinger" for a half-decent explanation, but there are better out there.

Truthsayer;
""It's effect on him is plain for all to read, and supports the evidence of a damaging effect on the user's intellect. It's use is related to criminality, and mental disorder in addition to it's damaging effect on intellect. What is far worse, it's use clearly leads to socialist tendencies.""

Spoken like a true "second party" representative with "nothing" to say as such, apart from some "my dads bigger than your dad", personal banter. But I would argue the Labour stranglehold on the keys to Number 10 are what breeds socialist tendencies nationwide, and not cannabis use.

The fact is until the Tories wake up to the fact there is more than one opinion (their own), more than one socio-economy (middle-class), and more than one way to skin a cat (drastic measures demand drastic solutions to pull in the unassailable lead Labour have over the Conservatives), I sincerely fail to see what the Tory Party can do to make a difference?

And with who at the helm? David Cameron?

I think not!

From where I'm sitting you have nothing at all to offer, and are content only to sit and wait for Labour to cock it up and give it to you, whilst you wait to sire your next "prodigy", a la Cameron, a la IDS, and a la that funny little balding bloke who married the welsh lady. I'm sorry but I don't remember his name.

As opposed to devising a campaign which is destined to wrestle control back in your favour by winning over the public, (thats them sweaty oiks that live in your opponents constituencies by the way).

But I guess that all seems like hard work from where you're sitting.

Until you have some people in the party which "us oiks" can relate to, you are seriously no-hopers as far as governmental candidates go.

But don't take my word for it.

Read "the polls"

Great rappin wichya's

Red Dragon
http://cannazine.co.uk
http://cannabisnews2.com

[red dragon]

As a first time visitor to this site, the thing that strikes me is how much arguing and in-fighting goes on.

"Who did what" or perhaps more importantly, "who never did what?"

Seems to me if you expended as much effort on the Labour party, as you do on each other, you would have nothing to worry about.

Red Dragon
http://cannazine.co.uk
http://cannabisnews2.com

[Traditional Tory]

Brown has had his bounce

Who knows? We shall have to see what is in the next opinion poll.

What is certain, however, is that the long-running Cameron bounce is very definitely dead in the water.

[The Huntsman]

One is unclear where the Red Dragon has flown in from: somewhere on high, I daresay. Is he welcome or perhaps he might be best off in the bin?

Is there any connection, perchance, between the fact that numerous members of the Cabinet and Shadow Cabinet have admitted to being criminals, to wit by unlawfully possessing cannabis or cannabis resin, and the fact that so many people commit crimes believing they can do so with impunity?

If you set an example of this kind, people will follow it.

[TomTom]

The most interesting part of The Independent front page is to imagine what share of GDP is taken up by interest payments on private sector debt........say 10% weighted average on £1,345,000,000,000 and we have payments of £134,500,000,000 annually.

[Malcolm Redfellow]

I read this load of tosh, the concatenation of trivia in The Big Picture and the drivel of much of the succeeding comments. But I did so just after taking in Paul Krugman in today's New York Times.

Krugman dissects the tactics of the American "nasty party", and in particular how to win elections using dirt. Here's the core:
... right-wing economic ideology has never been a vote-winner. Instead, the party’s electoral strategy has depended largely on exploiting racial fear and animosity.

Ronald Reagan didn’t become governor of California by preaching the wonders of free enterprise; he did it by attacking the state’s fair housing law, denouncing welfare cheats and associating liberals with urban riots. Reagan didn’t begin his 1980 campaign with a speech on supply-side economics, he began it — at the urging of a young Trent Lott — with a speech supporting states’ rights delivered just outside Philadelphia, Miss., where three civil rights workers were murdered in 1964.

And if you look at the political successes of the G.O.P. since it was taken over by movement conservatives, they had very little to do with public opposition to taxes, moral values, perceived strength on national security, or any of the other explanations usually offered.

The article is titled "Seeking Willie Horton". It seems to me that, in the last couple of days, too many Tories have been doing just that. And if you don't like the racist slur, look too at the comments on other threads, here and on Iain Dale.

Argue from strength, not from this gutter stuff.

[Allan Cuthbertson]

The business of being in Government means you need a strong leader at the helm. It's very unfortunate that Cameron is seen to be not seen to be up to the job.

[David Sergeant]

I have read Cameron's speech and it seems to me he is going for overkill about social responsibility. When politicians start complaining about the music industry exploiting blacks we are getting to micro management.

Social responsibility's big advantage is the numerous examples in other countries where community services and support are supplied by other than governments. That is where we need to start and they are specifics voters can go along with. Talking about the music industry dergrades the whole exercise.

I always thought that the great P.R. strength of Margaret Thatcher is that she could point to the successful working of her ideas in other countries.

[Graham D'Amiral]

David Gold had a really good point earlier it's easy to say the leadership should be doing this the shadow cabinet need to be doing that, but the rest of us have to get stuck in too.

I was out with David and his excellent campaign team last saturday, they are working very hard and giving David an excellent chance of being the next MP for Eltham, so I echo his comments if you want to do some campaigning this key marginal in SE London would be a great place to do it.

[Alistair]

"right-wing economic ideology has never been a vote-winner. Instead, the party’s electoral strategy has depended largely on exploiting racial fear and animosity."

Agree totally Malcolm.

We've seen it in Bush's still-segregated, race-hate crazed America and now we're beginning to see it here.

Of course it was always obvious the Tories would play the race card. The only question was how long Cameron would keep up his pretence of being opposed to bigotry.

With his attack on Black music and culture Cameron has shown his true colours. Obviously it's impossible for a privileged Old Etonian to have any sympathy for black culture so he wants to stamp it out.

Cameron has raised the spectre of Enoch Powell and the real spirit of Toryism. Wait until he plays his hand. It's a Full House of race cards.

[Tony Makara]

Alistair, you comments on race are completely without justification. According to your logic David Cameron is a racist because he is critical of gang culture and because he attended Eton as a young man! Come on Alistair you will have to do better than that. Such an argument might play well at a meeting of some socialist faction, but you are debating with very articulate people on Conservative Home. David Cameron isn't a racist, George Bush isn't a racist and neither was Enoch Powell.

[malcolm]

I suppose you know when you are winning the argument when all rather ignorant lefties can counter with 'all Tories are racist' etc etc. We know it's rubbish, so more importantly do the electorate I suspect.

[Campaign for liberation and equality for the left-handed minority]

Malcolm:

I fully agree with you. However, I must suggest caution in the use of the word 'leftie'. I am left handed. I find it offensive to be associated anyone who admires or supports the authoritarian dictator Gordon 'The Pretender' or his deluded sheep like followers.

Furthermore, you will probably find within the tomes of incomprehensible, unusable legislation that this Government(sic)has introduced, that I probally have a case for claiming 'leftist' discrimination. After all it is not my fault that the right side of my brain has equality with the left side.

If you are going to refer to them as anything I suggest you use a description that is closer to the truth such as 'social facists' or perhaps 'national socialists'.

8o)

(PS this is a fictional example of the sort thing one has come to expect from those of a politically crass socialist leaning)

[Malcolm Redfellow]

Tony Makara at 20:46:

George Bush isn't a racist.

Well, of course not.

That's why Governor Bush approved 152 executions in Texas, where prosecutors are twice as likely to demand the death penalty for black or hispanic defendants.

That's why 31% of Black males in Florida (remember Florida? Governor Jeb Bush?) are disenfranchised.

After Katrina, three days after, Bush managed a fly-by of New Orleans. 30% of the local population lived in poverty: it still took five roofless days for the Federal Government transportation to be organised. Imagine that in (say) Kennebunkport.

Three months later Bush managed his second visit to New Orleans (which was, remember, "a top priority for the President") on his way to a Party fund-raiser in Palm Beach.

He used a TV address to uge the Supreme Court to veto affirmative action.

Etc. Etc.

No, Bush is not racist. It's just the way they draw him.

Now tell me that some of the comments of recent days by our local Conservatives, on this site and elsewhere, have not tended in a similar direction. Because, if you like, I have chapter and verse.

[malcolm]

Some of the comments of recent days by our local Conservatives on this site and elsewhere have not tended in a similar direction.
Go and troll somewhere else.

[malcolm]

To the poster @21.55.I'm a lefty too.Very useful on tennis court.

[Cardinal Pirelli]

In case people don't recognise the name 'Malcolm Redfellow'.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Redfellow

[Opinicus]

Perhaps, only three months to an election and the editor is reduced to statements like "I read that as...." No wonder the public has no idea whether we're worth voting vote. We have no idea. Perhaps even DC has no idea.

When are we and even the nation going to be let in on this private joke?

[Patsy Sergeant]

Red Dragon - Welsh Labour - You can't remember the name of the little bald fellow, well of course you can't, its all that cannabis!

[Malcolm Redfellow]

Cardinal Pirelli at 23:08:

Hmm: I wonder which of his little friends contributed that to wikipedia. You learn something new every day: for that titbit, much thanks, your Eminence.

On the other hand, at least one of Malcolm Redfellow's personae was learning his politics from the Telegraph, Spectator and similar radical sheets from the days of the Macmillan Administration. Read Malcolm's recent stuff: you may not disagree with all of it. Though, come to think of it, the "Red" bit might be too much of a give-away.

And as for malcolm at 22:54, don't push your luck. "Trolling": perish the thought -- it might provoke one of the denizens to think, actually think. Meanwhile, try this one for size:
I only have to step outside my street door to be in the third world... This country is now a shithole and getting visibly worse by the day... One in four children born to a foreign family. Our culture is dying. This country is an overcrowded, crime ridden, politically correct disaster area. [Source: the on-going Iain Dale show at 9.04 this morning.] And, yes; I do take offence at such filth, and yes, I have many similar exemplars.

Meanwhile, back at the ranch, what about a serious discussion about Conservative social and economic policies? About dealing with the underclass? And, if there's any time left over, about the realities (and not the sub-UKIP myths) of Europe? The way I see it, all those cogent thoughts from IDS and John Redwood (another Red under the bed?) were sloughed off as inconvenient to the Cameron/Osborne politburo.

[Graeme Archer]

HAve you noticed how Conservative Home is being targeted by socialists recently? They're even easier to spot than the UKIPs.

Red Dragon says of me
f you don't understand the reasons for the initial legislation against cannabis Graeme, perhaps it would be wise not to get involved in the topic in the first place?

I have an academic doctorate and work in basic psychiatric R&D, including the development of pharmacotherapy for the appalling disease of schizophrenia, so don't pick fights with me about what psychiatry and neuroscience have to say about the links between cannabis use and schizophrenia. Go away and find another site to pollute with your life-destroying nihilism.

Even if the science were easily set to one aside, I just don't want to live in a culture which tolerates aggressive young men sitting around smoking joints in public. For that disaster in London, we have the efforts of successions of Rubbish Labour Home Secretaries and the twitterings of the second worst senior Met officer ever, Brian "Ridiculous" Paddick. Their efforts, which have only increased human misery, are given spurious intellectual sanctification by the sort of drivel one sees posted all over the web by people like 'Red Dragon'.

[Felixstowe fiddler]

On Thursday in a by-election, the Lib Dems gained Thedwastre South, one of the Tories' safest seats on Suffolk county council. It's in the Bury St Edmunds constituency of David Ruffley, who scraped home in 1997 by a mere 368 votes. While your largely London-based bloggers on this site congratulate one another over Cameron's switch to social policy over taxation, it seesm that something fundamental is happening out in the real political world.
If evidence was needed that Cameron is proving such a huge turn-off, just look at the Thedwastre South result. Even the combined Tory and UKIP vote is less than the Lib Dems achieved. An October election could, indeed probably would, decimate the Conservatives. Labour would then be able to claim without dispute to be the natual govering party of the United Kingdom.

[Oberon Houston]

I particularly liked the part of Cameron's speech yesterday where he said the 'response to this murder should not just be a hastily prepared news conference to announce tougher penalties, a crack-down on this and that and a serious commitment to tackling that'....(to hog the news agenda until the story fades)... for too long the media - and none more so than the BBC - have played lap-dog to this very effective New Labour media trick. Well we are onto them, Cameron is onto them and just for once the comment writers haven't let Brown and Smith away with it. Well, it's about bloody time the hacks and editors woke up, the readers are.

[Tony Makara]

Oberon, Very true. I noticed how Gordon Brown seemed to be milking a camera opportunity out of the shooting when a statement would have been more appropriate. The great thing about David Cameron is that he knows how Labour manipulate the media and can expose them.

[Traditional Tory]

Cameron in in this morning's Telegraph 'banging on' (as he would put it) about the so-called Broken Society and the murder of Rhys Jones.

Fair enough, although he risks accusations of exploiting tragedy for political purposes.

What I want to know is, why wasn't he talking like this a year ago when all we were hearing was twaddle about sunshine, flowers and how the Victor Meldrews of the Conservative Party should be celebrating Blair's Britain.

There was already a toll of slain youngsters out there, but of course they were neither white, middle class, not likely to have families who might vote conservatives. That meant it was OK to continue with the Pollyanna rhetoric.

I don't believe for a moment that Cameron is a racist (as has been fatuously suggested) but he is definitely a privileged blinkered ethnocentric who knows nothing about the wicked, violent world in which so many of us have to live.

When I last called Blair's Britain - and I think we can still call it that - a foul cesspool of crime and depravity, I provoked a pathetic bleat from Malcolm (the Cameroon rather than the out-and-out Socialist) who apparently believes such clear thinking is 'negative'

Go bury your head back in the sand, pal.

[EML]

Cameron has been banging on about social responsibility for as long as he's been party leader.

Go read some speeches.

[Malcolm Redfellow]

Has everybody -- but everybody -- read, marked and inwardly digested Irwin Stelzer in the current issue of the Spectator? It's worth the admission fee on its own. And, yes, I freely admit it's taken me until Saturday morning to reach it.

Stelzer ticks off style-versus-substance and all the policy areas, one by one: social issues, (Redwood on) competitveness, healthcare (lots of that), taxation, environment, and all tied back to a penultimate thrust on Adam Smith.

Here's the punchline:
No leader can outsource the making of policy to a gaggle of committees, and then rely on some co-ordinator to put some watered-down version of the recommendations into a grand plan. Policy-making is hard work, harder than travelling to Rwanda, harder than forming a focus group or reading polls, harder even than doing the washing-up. It is also highly individual and lonely in the end. Gordon Brown has known that for decades. Now is the time for David Cameron to at least begin his own education.

Now, if only we could have submissions of that quality here ... instead of endless sniping and trivialities.

[Alistair]

Couldn't agree more Malcolm but I'm afraid what we see here is what the Tory Partyb does best. Endless treachery and infighting.

As for Traditional Tory's nasty claims about "Blair's Britain" I would suggest that the destruction of society by Thatcher and her ilk is only now being repaired after many years hard work. Its not surprising there is much still to be done.

Personally I dont see how anyone with Cameron's Eton and Oxford background can have the nerve to lecture about social responsibility to a poor family on a housing estate.

[Oberon Houston]

Malcolm, you are right, Brown has had much more experience of policy making than Cameron.

- The New Deal, paid for by a pensions raid, and it doesn't work.
- NHS 'reform', worst cancer survival rates in the western world, A&E units closing, worst stroke care in western Europe, worst IVF in western europe.
- GP Contract's fiasco, Junior Doctor fiasco
- Reginal Policing, paperwork and kids being DNA'd and charged for petty offences. Other kids shooting each other in the street. iD cards and out of control immigration.
- Tax Credits fiasco, families plunged into poverty.
- Railtrak, illegal practices to push into insolvency. Crap trains and road tolls.
- Building new schools that then closing them 2 years later due to lack of pupils.
- NHS computer project, millenium dome, ILA's, pensioner poverty, NHS dentists, high tax, foot & mouth, EU treaty, fighting two wars on a peacetime budget, spin, sleeze and politicisation of the civil service, cash for peerages, Bernie Eccleston a stalanist and a flawed personality. Yup, what a great Prime Minister.

[red dragon]

For your information my last vote was Conservative.

Which was INDEED my last Conservative vote.

I did hear a whisper that Conservatives smoke cannabis too apparently and if national statistics are anything to go by around 1 in 5 regular users of this site, will also be regular cannabis users?

Not that they will admit it, as there is "no gain" in such an announcement, right?

I find it interesting to note that when you have no answer to give you concentrate on personal attacks instead of answering the points made.

Or perhaps not bothering saying anything may be the best option because you have precisely nothing to add and seek only to puff up your own self-importance by attacking "the interloper" on behalf of Conservative HQ?

Save it!

1. IDS and Cameron are not the "team" to build your return to power on. IDS already tried and failed to make a difference and giving him another shot could be seen by some as having nothing "new" in your quiver, and lacks ambition.

1a. When Cameron was launched as "regular guy Dave" I was actually quite excited by the thought of having a Tory the working class could relate to - the "cameron cannabis" revelations sought only to cement this notion and it augured well for the election, or so I thought.

Unfortunately, and over time, "Dave" has proven himself something of a bumbling fool, particularly when facing the press, and here's the kicker;

Everyone knows how to wrong foot him, which makes it all to easy to score points against him and for me, this is a fundamental attribute the leader must have; the ability to think on his feet, whilst furiously ducking and weaving the shots the Labour Spin Doctors are dealing out and Dave doesn't have this.

Sorry and all, but its the facts.

2. The anonymous balding bloke who's name I forgot, is just one in a chain of uninteresting people you have tried to launch as a "prodigal son" - a return to traditional Conservatism which has to date, failed dismally and the biggest mistake I can see, was letting Portillo walk because he is really the only Tory in recent history, with the "charisma" required to even get considered for the job.

An election between Portillo and Brown could quite possibly see me dusting off my blue rosette, and I'm sure I'm not alone either.

3. No one has forgotten the Tories who are involved in the current drug scandals. I can name and shame them here if you like as there are quite a few. But that would no doubt lead to..

4. Quote "The Huntsman";
"One is unclear where the Red Dragon has flown in from: somewhere on high, I daresay. Is he welcome or perhaps he might be best off in the bin?"

By the time the page has reloaded, showing my posts deleted, this thread will be transcribed on every social network which ranks in the "top 100" websites in the world.

Here's the thing see; You can't delete my comments because you don't agree with them.

Right there, for all to see, is the problem with the Conservatives in the UK today!

No empathy.

It's "my way, or the highway", which is why you have no chance of regaining power anytime soon as the public simply won't allow it until things change, most important of which, is your attitude.

Harsh, but true!

You need to finish fighting with each other before you can realistically concentrate on taking on the Labour Party.-)

Red Dragon

http://cannazine.co.uk
http://cannabisnews2.com

[Patsy Sergeant]

Red Dragon - Your last comment that - 'you need to finish fighting each other before you can realistically concentrate on taking on the Labour Party' - is somewhat hypocritical since as far as this thread is concerned (which no doubt for your pleasure you have dominated the last two days - yawn), you have no intention - yourself - of allowing conservatives to have peaceful discussion, even if they wanted to.

I wonder would it be too much to ask you to perhaps put forward some POSITIVE ideas of some kind? It is of course much easier to criticise than to be positive, and of course you may not see being positive as a useful 'role' for yourself......

[red dragon]

Hey Patsy;

Do me a favour and climb down off that high horse would ya? You may fall off!

As for my participation I gave a valid opinion on your leadership (they really are no hopers).

I then went on to explain why (Mr Cameron is a bumbling fool, in the nicest possible way of course) and I have also (through lots of personal attacks about "flying in from on high" etc), mentioned the calibre of person I think is needed to mount a serious challenge on behalf of the Tories.

Michael Portillo!

In answer, I get more attacks, but no answers. No solutions, and no suggestions.

Not exactly the "friendly face" of Conservative Politics you lot huh?

ROFLOL!

Regardless of whether you like it or not 'personally', the cannabis debate isn't going away. It needs to be discussed and at every level.

If we are banning substances on the grounds of what damage they do, tobacco and alcohol will be first to go, but nuts should also be on the list as they will kill more people than cannabis does next year (fact).

Trouble is, its a cash cow right (baccy and booze)?

Pays for a lot of "stuff" we don't know about. Or rather we never used to know about. These days of course its very hard to keep a secret!

I should get used to the topic if I were you guys. Its going to rate highly in debate over the coming months.

In the meantime, thank you all, for all of your company.

Its been....enlightening!

In fact I have enjoyed myself so much I intend to pop in daily.-)

Red Dragon

http://cannazine.co.uk
http://cannabisnews2.com

[Traditional Tory]

Michael Portillo!

Oh dear! Is that the best you can offer.

The best view this party ever had of 'Polly' was his departing fat backside.

Polly was the first to promote the 'moderniser' slime within the party. He flounced off when he saw - quite rightly - that nobody wanted his hideous face on the scene.

Sadly Cameron and others saw fit to pick up Portillo's tainted baton. Now they are going right down the same toilet and a good job too.

[Think about it]

Graeme, unfortuntely, your qualifications don't stop you talking utter crap.

Now take your qualifications along to Philip Lawrence's widow and explain to her again how your education has led to you defending the Chindamo decision that even the Editor here has decribed in the most negative terms.

[Traditional Tory]

Graeme, unfortuntely, your qualifications don't stop you talking utter crap.

It's quite extraordinary the way sections of the party - in London of course - have been influenced by these metrosexual do-gooders. One envisages Graeme as a younger and camper version of the infamous Dr Heinz Kiosk.

Difficult to imagine why some of these people were attracted to the Conservatives in the first place. I certainly don't think Graeme and my association would have 'clicked' but things may be very different in Hackney, a hip and happening locale which I haven't revisited since I was mugged in Kingsland Road, relieved of my wallet and dumped in the gutter, fortunatly with no greater injury than a sprained ankle.

I often wonder whether these 'Tory' yuppies admit their politics to their smart London friends. Probably not. If one wishes to remain on the coolest dinner party circuits one surely has to keep one's mouth firmly shut.

[malcolm]

Re your post yesterday Traditional Tory @10.02. The only reference I can find of a similar conversation about 'cesspools of depravity' was an exchange I had with someone called John Irvine. Is that one of your numerous pseudonyms? The word 'negative' was not used in that exchange by me.So if that was you once again it shows you up as a liar as well as a fool.

[Traditional Tory]

Well Malcolm. I do seem to be keeping you busy. Shame you have nothing better to do on a Sunday morning.

I am not Mr Irvine and I have never used the rather OTT phrase to which you refer. From memory I think I described 'Modern Britain' as 'utterly foul' and you came up with one of your usual snide and sour remarks. No I'm not going to waste hours searching for it.

Tell me; are you like this 24/7 or just when you come on here and someone dares to defy your thunderous decrees?

Life in the 'Malcolm' household must be like something out of the 'Barretts of Wimpole Street'

[Traditional Tory]

Well now I did just put a few key words into Google and here we are:

I have nothing but contempt for these degenerates. They are one of the prime reasons that 'Modern Britain' is so foul.

Posted by: Traditional Tory | June 20, 2007 at 19:42

Modern Britain is so foul' Just about sums you up doesn't it Mike Smith (Traditional Tory)? Bitter,out of touch and completely irrelevant.
Sure Britain has some quite serious problems but for most people it is still a fantastic place to live. That is why Cameron is right to appeal to the optimistic side of peoples nature as most people are law abiding,public spirited and good.

Posted by: malcolm | June 20, 2007 at 21:01

That comment (replete with yet another of your curious and obsessive delusions about my 'identity') looks just a little off key in the light of subsequent events, wouldn't you say?

'a fantastic place to live'? Can Mr Brown quote you on that one? It would look great on his manifesto.

Of course, Malcolm, where you live - a very long way from the mayhem of the inner cities - I daresay life does remain fairly sweet.

Shame about the tax bill.

[Ash Faulkner]

Tony Makara at 20:46:

George Bush isn't a racist.

Well, of course not.

That's why Governor Bush approved 152 executions in Texas, where prosecutors are twice as likely to demand the death penalty for black or hispanic defendants.

That's why 31% of Black males in Florida (remember Florida? Governor Jeb Bush?) are disenfranchised.

After Katrina, three days after, Bush managed a fly-by of New Orleans. 30% of the local population lived in poverty: it still took five roofless days for the Federal Government transportation to be organised. Imagine that in (say) Kennebunkport.

Three months later Bush managed his second visit to New Orleans (which was, remember, "a top priority for the President") on his way to a Party fund-raiser in Palm Beach.

He used a TV address to uge the Supreme Court to veto affirmative action.

Etc. Etc.

No, Bush is not racist. It's just the way they draw him.

Now tell me that some of the comments of recent days by our local Conservatives, on this site and elsewhere, have not tended in a similar direction. Because, if you like, I have chapter and verse.

Posted by: Malcolm Redfellow | August 24, 2007 at 22:42

And that's why he appointed the first black Secretary of State and the first black female Secretary of State. 'Georg Bush h8s blck ppl lol!1!!'

And opposing 'affirmative action' does not make you racist. On the contrary, supporting it does.

[TomTom]

Oberon Houston weites of a "GPs Contract Fiasco" and I wonder what he means.

The BMA and DoH spent two years negotiating a GP Contract into which the DoH started inserting all sorts of admendments at the 12th hour. The GPs voted to reject the contract and work without contract before deciding whether to resign en-masse from the NHS.

The Government then came back after the BMA membership ejected theuir negotiators and started afresh. The DoH wanted performance pay using Quality Assessments and laid down targets for every payment. GPs do not get funding - they have to meet targets for streams of discrete funding - well they met the targets and worked to target.

The out-of-hours cover was one reason it was hard to recruit GPs at all. After a day surgery then being on-call all night until 2am and starting surgery again next morning became a bit tiresome - especially since most GPs under 45 are now female with young families who want to get the life-work balance under control to reduce divorce statistics.

The PCTs under the new contract "own" the patient lists not the GP and so it is their legal obligation to provide out-of-hours cover. In many areas they have contracted GPs who are willing to work as co-operatives to do so - in other areas PCTs decided to be cheaper and use nurses or cut back.

The simple fact is with exploding population growth, high crime rates and attacks on GPs and medical staff going out to housing estates and high-rise blocks, and call-outs from prisons where prisoners play games; it is getting hard to find doctors. The new GPs are Associates, female, and part-time so there is a need for ever more GPs to replace the retiring male full-time GP.

The Government has frozen GP incomes for 2 years but the staff still expect pay increases even as practice incomes ome under pressure. Logically GPs should start firing practice nurses and receptionists to balance the books.

Anyway GP practices will go the way of village post offices. Within 5-8 years most will be in Polyclinics with dentists and pharmacists owned by corporates such as KKR-Boots or HCA or ANZAG or Aviva

[malcolm]

I was right yesterday Traditional Tory a fool and a liar.