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Great photo. I'm emailing that to my church friends who think so much of the DimLibs.

The Tory benches are not too full considering it is their debate. That said, David Laws does look like a bit of an idiot there on his own. At least he looks like he's awake...

Utter rubbish! I've just watched David Laws' speech, which was excellent and well thought out, making exactly the right points. Far better than from the Tories, who lets face it are fair weather friends to those on local incomes or facing poverty. When I see that fool IDS on a council estate for the cameras I wonder why he wasn't raising these issues during his doomed Tory leadership.

What is Ali Gledhill talking about? Can he actually see the photo clearly or is he one of these Lib Dems who enjoys reading this excellent site, because there is no Lib Dem equivalent and if there was why would anyone want to read it?

Oh dear, is the fluffy mask of the Lib Dems slipping? They preach that they are the party that cares about the poor and disposed, but when there is a debate they are nowhere to been seen.

Mind you I have to ask the question, will anyone be surprised or even care? The Lib Dems will as we all know do and say anything to seem popular.

David Laws will at least have expected to see Grant Shapps.

'When I see that fool IDS on a council estate for the cameras I wonder why he wasn't raising these issues during his doomed Tory leadership.' - Paul Elgood

I think you'll find he was Paul, but then, don't let facts stand in the way, eh - they haven't stopped you and your Lib Dem pals before, why would they this time?

When you lot ousted IDS (and who can blame you), didn't he claim that the Tory Party rejected him because of his ideas on social justice etc? All seemed like a lame excuse from a loser to me then and his half hearted attempts prove it now. He hasn't a clue.

Have you got a picture of stuffed Tory benches the last time the Lib Dems had an opposition debate? Really, I don't think much of them either but this is pot, kettle, black territory this is.

"LibDems, Not bovvered here?"

Great photo. I'm emailing that to my church friends who think so much of the DimLibs.

It looks pretty much like a standard turnout for a Commons debate to me.

Possibly it is just my eyesight failing with advanced age but I haven't a clue who the people in the picture are. They could be Tories or anybody.

Why would do you think it would have such a devastating effect on your 'church friends' Bluepatriot? If you make a habit of arguing politics with fellow-churchgoers in those snide terms you must be a very popular member of the congregation.

TT: you can tell who belongs to what party by where they are sitting. All those people are Tories, except for the single bloke on the left of the center aisle; he's a LibDem.

Ali T | July 11, 2007 at 18:23
What is Ali Gledhill talking about? Can he actually see the photo clearly or is he one of these Lib Dems who enjoys reading this excellent site, because there is no Lib Dem equivalent and if there was why would anyone want to read it?

It is a shame that no LibDems are there, but I was suggesting that the number of Tories only looks great in comparison to the mass of empty green seats beside them.

The number of Tories present is, as was suggested, "respectable" for a normal post-PMQs debate. But it is hardly something to write home about if a flagship opposition debate on a key policy area for a recoving party can only fill this many seats.

In other words, if it is fair to ask where the LibDems are, surely it is fair to wonder why so many Conservatives failed to attend their own debate?

And no, I'm not a LibDem.

"The above screen shot of the Commons chamber from just a few minutes ago shows a respectable number of Tory MPs..."

You must be kidding? If that's a respectable number of Tory MPs, I'm affraid of thinking how the Tory benches look usually.

Most House of Commons debates could be held in a 20 seater committee room. It is all rather disgraceful and embarrassing. MPs demand debates on this issue and that at business questions: when they get them almost nobody shows interest. As for adjournment debates........

IDS started pushing he social justice agenda in 2002, but the media, at that time pre-Iraq totally in thrall to Alastair Campbell and Labour, ensured it was not heard. That's why it is such a shock to Liberal Democrats now that there is such a big emphasis in Conservative ranks on Social Justice.

Liam Fox took up the banner in the leadership election of 2005 and started using the 'broken society' phrase. David Cameron appointed IDS to press ahead towards creating a major policy framework as soon as he was elected leader.

The policies being proposed now from the IDS Social Justice Policy Review Body have been five years in their creating.

If these LD guys above supposedly read CH, how come they don't know the facts? Have they come in to make a bit of trouble and prove their ignorance? Lib Dems might at least listen before dismissing the Social Justice Conservative agenda, and attacking ad hominem on their principle initiator.

The photo is of the Opposition benches clearly. John Bercow is in the third row back with his left arm out.

I agree over attendances to debates. Its sad that there is such great demand for debates (look at Leader of the House questions for examples of this) but when it comes to the crunch, they just wont turn up. I guess one reason is because ultimately debates are just that and do not lead to action.

I take it from the thread above that the new way of attacking a fellow poster on this site who disagrees with your view is to instantly brand them a Lib Dem? (true yellow visitors aside of course)

fr | July 12, 07:44

"Most House of Commons debates could be held in a 20 seater committee room...."

Yet hundreds of MPs magically appear from nowhere to vote on party lines, despite not having heard debates.

A rule enabling voting only by Members who have been in the Chamber for all or most of a debate would be an interesting development!

I have never been able to take the Lib Dems seriously when they posture as champions of social justice. All they ever want to do is confiscate more cash through the tax system. When it comes to solutions, they have no answers other than the non-answers which Labour is already offering.

Very reassuring that Bercow is still on our benches, bearing in mine the fevered speculation of a couple of weeks ago. Eleven members (5.1%) isn't brilliant, albeit better than the Lib Dem's one (under 2%). Is that the lovely Julie Kirkbride on the second bench? With Oliver Letwin, that's only 3 identified so far. I offer a "prize" of a £10 donation to ConHome if anyone can name all the others by midnight tonight. You can crib from earlier posts but one poster has to get them all. Someone expert (the Editor, but then he'll want the £10 so that might not work) will have a adjudicate.

Obviously thats IDS stood up behind Bercow... Thats gotta be worth a quid!

We have to be a bit careful on comments like this. Whenever I switch on the parliament channel all the benches look quiet.

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