Please let it be true... Harman elected Deputy Labour Leader

3.15pm: Harriet Harman attacks Cameron as weak and opportunistic - rejects his finger-wagging about the family - his support for marriage and wearing of yellow rubber gloves - Cameron is only interested in women for one thing, she says - their votes.

3.05pm: Iain Dale's response - Thank you, Thank you, Thank you

2.55pm: Blears went out first - Peter Hain next - Surprisingly Benn next - Then Cruddas (who led on first round first preferences) - FINAL PERCENTAGES WERE HARRIET HARMAN WITH 50.3% AND ALAN JOHNSON 49.7%.  She won on the back of members' votes - Johnson led on trade unions and parliamentarians.

2.40pm: Both Sky and BBC News 24 are saying that Harriet Harman has been elected. The 2IC of Labour is now an opponent of the Iraq war.

On Radio 4's The World This Weekend Nick Robinson has just speculated that Harriet Harman might have been elected Deputy Labour Leader.  Only Jon Cruddas has been to the left of the woman who was ejected from her Work & Pensions perch in 1998 after comprehensively failing to master her brief.  During the contest Ms Harman has adopted positions on the Iraq war, nuclear power and Trident that are clearly at odds with the Brown-Blair years.  The speculation is only that but if confirmed it would bring a smile to Mr Cameron's face.

Comments

[Andrew Woodman]

She's down to 2-1 on Betfair. Looks to be between her and Johnson the way the betting is going.

[EdR]

I remember rashly thinking it was great when Ken entered the London mayoral race to split the Labour vote. Two terms of Ken later, I'm very cautious about getting too cocky. Harman is a slick, reasonable-sounding media personality who will soften the edge of Labour, will make reassuring noises particularly to the Cameron-supporting women and to Labour-exile LibDems, and will generally complement dour Brown. I see no reason to think she'll be unpopular, just rubbish. Just the sort of person you want running the country during Brown's holidays and famous displays of "courage"...

[John]

Sky are predicting it is Alan Johnson by a nose. Harman second. Benn third.

[Traditional Tory]

What reason is there to suppose that Harman will be unpopular or incompetent?

She strikes me as an attractive and articulate woman. I'm appalled by her views on immigration, but we have people with views like like that in the Conservative Party nowadays.

In another bad week for Dave this looks like clutching at straws.

[anti-taliban]

It matters not who wins this unless we get our act together - lets start by closing down this site as it is a showcase of division within the party and simply a vanity exercise for the editor.

[Tapestry]

Why bother betting? It was hers all along. The Deputy Leadership 'election' was a reality TV show - to get the public used to the fact that elections are not serious any more, and to distract people from the Brown lack of a mandate to be leader. It was obvious on Question Time with Dimbleby that he wasn't taking it seriously. We live in a post-democracy. a media controlled state - a mediocracy.

[bluepatriot]

Poor Adam Boulton. He's really struggling to say anything interesting as everyone waits for the result to come in.

[John]

Sky has reversed its prediction. Now they are predicting Harman.

[Andrew Woodman]

Harman just gone 1-100 on Betfair. First good news of the weekend.

[michael mcgough]

Cheap handbag,no talent should push Cameron up a few points.

[Mark Bunn]

BBC News 24, (or the Brown broadcasting Corporation) is annoucing Harman. Perfect for us. Johnson and Benn where the candidates I feared. Thank Labour voters!!!!

[Voice from the South West]

News 24 have confirmed that Harman has been elected Deputy Leader. Oh goodie! :D

[Ash Faulkner]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/6234692.stm

What a shock! :O

[John]

Well it sounds like Pravda have inside knowledge then.

Sky are highlighting that Harman had considerable support from the Brown Camp.

[Jack Stone]

Anti-Taliban.Couldn`t have put it better myself. The sooner it goes the better.It as become a stain upon the reputation of the Conservative Party.

[John]

Hmmmmm!

Interesting concept. If you don't like what you hear close it down.

Where have I heard that before?

[Voice from the South West]

Johnson's in the lead so far...

[Andrew Woodman]

Anti-Taliban, Jack Stone, you do talk some rubbish. Yes there's plenty of trolls who are best ignored, but shutting down the UK's most successful political blog because you don't like democractic debate is the line of thought of a communist dictator. That thinking is a stain on the Conservative Party!

[anti-taliban]

No - it had been taken over by Trolls and the Taliban Tim is so out of touch with reality that he should remove the word Conservative from the name so as not confuse voters and the media.

[John]

Andrew Woodman:

Well Said!

I do wonder if Jack Stone is really a plant on this site just to bring the worst out of us?

[Voice from the South West]

Harman's been elected! :D

[Editor]

Okay, anti-taliban. You've had your say. Back to the thread please.

[Tim Roll-Pickering]

Interesting - Labour have clearly forgiven Harman for their grammar schools row.

[David Cooper]

Harman has a reputation for being dim, perhaps the most unlikely recipient ever of the letters QC (albeit only through Parliamentary channels). With Prescott's brain power having been legendary, clearly nothing is changing here.

One serious point is that Frank Field is unlikely to have forgotten that they were both sacked together in the distant past, and he has never come close to office since then. Could this be an insult too far for him?

[anti-taliban]

Harman is speaking live now - she does not sound too bad. If presentation is the role of Deputy Leader she is probably right. She is a total contrast to Brown - English, Pretty, Female.

[Editor]

Good point David Cooper. The two people who made Frank Field's life impossible as Minister for Welfare Reform are now leading his party.

[Chris Palmer]

Jack Stone, you are an idiot (to put it mildly.)

[anti-taliban]

Attacking Cameron!!!!!

[Andrew Woodman]

Harman is calling Cameron opportunistic. Now then, how many policy positions did she change her mind on during the deputy election campiagn?

[John]

It will be interesting to see how she is received by other MP's.

What post do you think Brown will give her?

[bluepatriot]

She came over well in her speech. I don't think we should underestimate her.

[malcolm]

I suppose if a Labour deputy leader had the power to do much this would be bad news for the United Kingdom but they don't really. I blogged that anyone except Harman would have been an improvement on Prescott so Labour members picked Harman. Unbelievable. She was a useless minister and with her choice of private schools for her children a Grade A hypocrite.The only thing I suppose in her favour is that she's a woman and in these PC days that must count as a plus and that she doesn't have the brains to challenge Brown on anything and presumably that's why several of his closest supporters were behind her.
After Cruddas she was the most obviously left wing candidate and the abject failure of Blears does mark the remarkably quick passing of the Blairite experiment.
I suppose Harmans election is probably good news for us but if Labour can win elections with a total buffoon as deputy leader and deputy PM it probably won't make much of a difference.
PS If this site is so bad Jack Stone, easy answer ,don't blog on it. Your invariably half witted comments will not be missed.

[anti-taliban]

Brown uses the words "New Labour"

[TomTom]

Well I doubt Brown will let her be Deputy Prime Minister especially with Jack Dromey as her husband

[Paul Kennedy]

16:11

Good point, didn't he start all the loans thing off, seems as though she has not suffered guilt by association though.;)

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Just got in from being drenched on the Norfolk coast. I think Tories should be pleased with Labour's choice of Deputy. I suspect whoever ran Johnson's campaign may have to answer some questions!

[Jennifer Wells]

If Tim shut this site down anti-Taliban someone else who is probably less responsible would rush to fill the space.

[Derek]

Labour's deputy is of little consequence to me, but I must defend this site from those who want it closed. This site has a big influence and does a brilliant job in keeping us informed. Long may it continue.

[Patsy Sergeant]

Harriet Harman, yes well, if anyone had watched this morning when Brown was being interviewed on the Politics Show, and one of the questions was - apparently not quite what he expected, would know why she has got the job. Personable woman, will do as she is told, just bright enough to carry the job, and no doubt she will have to 'earn her keep' by announcing the nasty news items when they come! At the same time Brown maybe thinks that it is a message to some women, that whatever the papers say about him, HE is prepared to have a woman as a Deputy!

[Adam Tugwell]

Jennifer, don't waste your time with anti-Taliban. The site is good and he/she would not be bothering to post on it otherwise.

[Denis Cooper]

Paulina, but that's OK because under Brown every child will have the chance to benefit from the excellent if rather expensive private education offered by St Paul's Girls School and rise to be an MP, a QC, and a government minister. But what most of them won't have the chance to do is benefit from an excellent education at a state grammar, and rise to be an MP, a QC and a government minister.

[Joseph]

Has the thought occured to anybody that if reports I have heard are to be believed, the left wing of the old labour party had alledgedly deserted Labour since Tony Blair became leader. If Harriet Harman is as left wing as some suggest, it could bring the dissenters back within the Labour fold. Bear in mind it was also reported today that a 1000 plus new members have been added to the Labour fold since the deputy leadership election has been taken place.
She IS an attractive and articulate woman, plus the fact as has been pointed out, Female-English and one nobody has mentioned yet very telegenic. She also knows how to hit well below the belt so do not make the mistake of underestimating her, she has had a good teacher..her husband Jack Dromey who really does knows how to put the boot in, One Anthony Blair can confirm that fact of life.
Her choice of schools for her children could be an added bonus, as some people will read into that she DOESreally believe in choice not just make the correct noises.

[Biodun]

We have absolutely nothing to worry about.
Harsh words (from a left leaning newspaper no less). The bits I found funniest are below:

OBSERVER INTERVIEW WITH HARRIET HARMAN (BYLINE: LYNN BARBER) - May 31 1998.

LB..once we moved on from the prepared question, it was downhill all the way
HH I suppose I ought to invent a script of, you know, what made me what I am, but I just don't.'
But why does she have to 'invent a script'? Why can't she just tell the truth?

LB.
…she lost her oldest, staunchest ally, Gordon Brown, when she gave an interview to Polly Toynbee in which she appeared to leak Budget details. She was reportedly 'torn limb from limb' in Cabinet and Alastair Campbell was so angry he had to be scraped off the ceiling. He wrote an apoplectic fax telling her to 'enter a period of pre-Budget purdah'.

She knows she has a problem with interviews. She can't really see why anyone has the right to ask, let alone know, any more than she chooses to tell them. Odd. Obviously she doesn't have to tell anyone how she spends her money (not on clothes, judging from the outfit she was wearing), …But she has the sort of damn-you-for-your-impudence attitude one expects more from Tories than New Labour.

HH 'Some of the descriptions of me I just can't recognise. Thick. Docile. Acquiescing. Walking out.. I have never ever had an intellectual inferiority complex.'
LB.Hmm. Of course, not having an intellectual inferiority complex is not exactly proof that you are clever. But let's continue. What about walking out? This accusation presumably started in February when she, er, removed herself from a Woman's Hour interview mid-question.
HH 'But basically I was in trouble and being criticised, and so I was fair game. And it was a great irony that it was Woman's Hour, don't you think?'
LB.Duh? Does she seriously mean that, because she is a woman, Woman's Hour is not allowed to attack her? Perhaps we should file this example under Thick. She evinced a similar attitude when we talked about the public reaction to her cuts to lone mothers' benefits. Didn't she anticipate trouble?
HH I actually thought that my track record would count for something.'
LB.Trust me, I'm Harriet Harman? It was at this point that I completely lost whatever sympathy I might have had for her. The idea of single mothers sitting around in their council flats saying, 'Well the money's less, but I know I'll be all right because Harriet Harman is in charge,' is frankly bizarre.

… Imagination is not her strong point, and she has lived almost her entire adult life among Labour activists.

Time and again, she told me that she was never docile, never acquiescent. And yet, she also told me: 'You know, in the old days in Opposition, the worst thing you could do in a way was to say something that then made a story run…. the interviewer asked me something about Sellafield. ..but I didn't know what the line was I wasn't doing Environment at the time, or Energy and I actually thought, 'If I say something which creates a frenzy among the environmentalists, or the people working in Sellafield, this will be a real problem.' So I kind of felt myself choosing to just sound completely ignorant. Because the people listening might think 'Bloody hell! What an airhead!' but actually it wouldn't go anywhere, it wouldn't cause problems for my colleagues. . .
This must surely be the purest exposition we have ever heard of Mandelsonian politics. You have to know 'the line'. If you don't know the line, you are not allowed to speak. You are not allowed to have views, or even knowledge, of anything outside your brief. Better to fall on your sword and say that you have never heard of Sellafield than to express a non-line view about it. It is a remarkable tribute to her docility though not perhaps to her common sense that she went along with it so wholeheartedly. And now she complains that she is seen as an automaton.

In her constituency, she is known as 'Two-Minute Harman' because she is only ever willing to 'look in' at social events for two minutes.

If I were Tony Blair, I would keep her as a tasty morsel to throw to the lions much nearer the next election. It is quite useful for a prime minister to have the odd thick, docile, acquiescent minister to do the unpopular work of government. Oh sorry she's not thick, docile, acquiescent, she told me so I forgot.

Sorry there's no link as I got it from lexis nexis

[Opinicus]

Harman has been appointed for the same reason as Prescott. Prescott was appointed to reassure the working classes whilst Blair went rightwards. Harman has been appointed to reassure the Middle classes whilst Brown goes leftwards.

[ToMTom]

it was also reported today that a 1000 plus new members have been added to the Labour fold since the deputy leadership election has been taken place.

Lots of new enrollments take place before votes are needed - it is a common political feature from student politics to national politics - it is interesting to see how many actually renew when their votes are not needed

[Traditional Tory]

Jack Stone- The sooner (Conservativehome) goes the better.It as become a stain upon the reputation of the Conservative Party.

Is that so, Jack?

You mean rather like you 'ave' become a stain upon the reputation of the English language?

[JOHN WILLIAMS]

Insiders say Jack Straw is to be the next Deputy Prime Minister! Harman will just be Leader.

[Biodun]

Insiders say Jack Straw is to be the next Deputy Prime Minister! Harman will just be Leader.

BBC is suggesting the same thing too.

What a joke. How dare they waste the nation's attention on an election that doesn't even result in a cabinet position?

It's just like that time on Pop Idol when Javine didn't win!

[Joseph]

Biodun | June 24, 2007 at 17:57

A very interesting article Biodin, but I would be mighty careful if I were you, after all that was an article from May 31 1998, all of 9 years ago. She has had ample opportunity to mature and alter her views.
I wonder what people would say if every adverse article was re-printed on what Mr Cameron has had to say just in the last couple of years and compare it with what he is saying now?
I think the Tories would end up a damn side more embarrassed than the Labour people would with his Nulabour stance on a lot of things.
Plus the fact he was the author of the last Tory Manifesto....How much of that does he believe in now?

[Traditional Tory]

There was no such thing as Deputy Prime Minister until Maggie created it as a consolation prize for Willie Whitelaw.

I don't think that Whitelaw was Deputy Leader of the Conservative Party at the time so why should Harriet Harman's election to some party post automatically imply her succession to the government post of Deputy Prime Minister?

[Top of the shot]

Oh well we now havce a Deputy Leader of the Labour Party who sends her children to a private school. At least Blair sent his to state schools, even of they were not exactly bog standard comprehensives !

[Biodun]

would be mighty careful if I were you, after all that was an article from May 31 1998, all of 9 years ago. She has had ample opportunity to mature and alter her views.
I disagree. Harman also had ample time to mature and alter her views WELL BEFORE 1998. After all she had been an MP since 1982, 16 years at the time of that article. Cameron's 4 years as an MP before becoming party leader, are nothing compared to that.

I wonder what people would say if every adverse article was re-printed on what Mr Cameron has had to say just in the last couple of years and compare it with what he is saying now?
A lot of those articles already came out during the leadership elections, Joseph. They were not that many and personally I don't think Cameron has ever had an interview that was this bad with any newspaper, and definitely not with a right leaning one.

I think the Tories would end up a damn side more embarrassed than the Labour people would with his Nulabour stance on a lot of things. Plus the fact he was the author of the last Tory Manifesto....How much of that does he believe in now?
Well the fact that he ran his campaign on a "Change Platform" gave him licence to ditch many things he would previously have been associated with.
It would be very difficult for him to push through a "Change Agenda" if he said "I still stand by everything I said and did before I became leader".

[Joseph]

Biodin.
I like the rest of society can change my opinion when someone can come forward with a convincing argument. Only fools would not.
However there is a world of difference between changing one's mind after someone has convinced you otherwise than standing every principle you stood on at a GE on it's head less than two years later.
This strikes me as not conviction politics, but say anything do anything get elected at any price. That in my view is called dis-honesty. Does this ring a bell with you?
Like it or not this is what is going to resonate with the electorate and they are going to be constantly reminded of this situation right up until the next election.

[Don Collier]

Harman is one of those Labour Politicians where it is obvious when she spins. Unlike Prescott, she cant pass herself off as uneducated, when she gets it wrong, and so her mistakes, bias and extreme views will be obvious to all.

I wonder if Gordon Brown has the courage to make her deputy leader? Lets hope he does! It seems to me though that he is already spinning that he will not.

[ToMTom]

There was no such thing as Deputy Prime Minister until Maggie created it as a consolation prize for Willie Whitelaw.

I suspect you are right....but I have a feeling churchill may have had such an arrangement with Attlee in the event Churchill was killed during one of his wartime flights, or suffered another heart attack as he did in Washington at The White House

[Yet Another Anon]

There was no such thing as Deputy Prime Minister until Maggie created it as a consolation prize for Willie Whitelaw.
Deputy Prime Minister is not a position recognised under the British constitution; First Secretary of State is recognised under the constitution but has no statutory duties associated with it.

Don't know who the first person to be referred to among other things as Deputy Prime Minister was, but Clement Attlee from 1940 to 1945 had the title among others, Herbert Morrison had the title when Attlee was Prime Minister, Rab Butler had the title, so did George Brown at one point under Harold Wilson, Barbara Castle was never called Deputy Prime Minister but had the title of First Secretary of State.

Under Labour's constitution if the leader dies or otherwise suddenly leaves then the Deputy Leader automatically succeeds them as of right, in such circumstances when a party was in power a Deputy Leader could end up being made Prime Minister by the monarch without any kind of further election process, although Labour's NEC might move to hold an election or select a successor as leader themselves in such circumstances.

[Steven Richmond]

Well, feel free to kid yourselves that this is going to help the Tories.Southern English female,out of government long enough to look fresh,comes across well on TV.Anyone but Prescott was always going to be a gain for Labour,Peter Hain and Blears aside.

And now we begin...opens up musicial pocketwatch

[Andrew Bonar Law]

Traditional Tory - "There was no such thing as Deputy Prime Minister until Maggie created it as a consolation prize for Willie Whitelaw"

This is simply untrue - you may be traditional but you obviously have very limited knowledge of British (and Conservative party) political history and traditions.

Deputy Prime Minister as a title goes back as far as Churchill, who made Attlee DPM during the war. There were several others with the title after that and before Whitelaw - Morrison, Eden, Butler. And Whitelaw wasn't DPM as a consolation prize, but to add balance and experience to the Tory leadership ticket. (He was also safely in the Lords.) Labour when it's been in power before hasn't made the Deputy Leader as DPM - Foot, Jenkins, Ted Short, George Brown et al were in the cabinet but not DPM.

However, what most people seem to have forgotten (if they ever knew it) is that the post of Leader of the House of Commons is de facto Deputy Prime Minister. Historically, the Prime Minister was always simultaneously Leader of the House of Commons (or Lords) until Lloyd George, who was too busy winning the War, and who gave the job to Bonar Law, Tory leader within the coalition. Subsequent PMs reverted to being Leader of the House, until the next war, when Churchill separated the jobs again - and they've stayed separate ever since. You may have noticed that the Leader of the House still traditionally answers PMQs when the PM is away (and when there is no DPM).

So it's simply wrong when people (and the media) say that a politician (Jack Straw, Robin Cook, Geoffrey Howe are the recent examples) has been "demoted" from Foreign Secretary to Leader of the House.

If we're serious about restoring the authority of Parliament, we should be highlighting this and regard the Leader of the House as de facto Deputy Prime Minister.

[Yet Another Anon]

but I have a feeling churchill may have had such an arrangement with Attlee in the event Churchill was killed during one of his wartime flights, or suffered another heart attack as he did in Washington at The White House
Clement Attlee was called Deputy Prime Minister, the Prime Minister though cannot choose his or her successor, that is for the monarch to decide on the advice of the Privy Council (including the Prime Minister - in the circumstances in which they are still alive). If Winston Churchill had died then the King would have had to consult with MPs and the Privy Council both government and opposition - the likliehood is that it would have been another Conservative, I couldn't see a majority Conservative house accepting Clement Attlee as Prime Minister - Maybe Sir John Simon who was a National Liberal or Viscount Halifax?

[Andrew Bonar Law]

Yet Another Anon - you're wrong on a couple of points, George Brown was NEVER Deputy Prime Minister - Wilson had at least some sense (though he did make him Foreign Secretary for a while).

When George Brown stormed out of the government Wilson said "Thank God I never made him DPM".

Barbara Castle was First Secretary of State at one point, but was never Deputy Leader of the Labour party.

Back to the present day - seems me to be quite a good call from Gordon Brown to make Harman party Chair... keeps her out of the ministerial mainstream, but makes the grassroots feel better that they elected their Chair.

Maybe the Tories should do likewise? It's always seemed to me a weakness that the leader appoints a Chairman over the heads of the membership... and not always the popular choice (no names, of course, but I wonder if Francis's ears are burning?)

[Yet Another Anon]

George Brown et al were in the cabinet but not DPM.
George Brown was Deputy Leader at a time when Labour were in opposition, on the death of Hugh Gaitskell he was briefly Labour leader and Leader of the Opposition (as Margaret Beckett was in 1994 for a time), later he had the title First Secretary of State although apparently not Deputy Prime Minister, although he said he was Deputy Prime Minister and in fact First Secretary of State is a title given to suggest someone is the next most important person in the government after the Prime Minister.

If it was considered desirable that there should be a statutory position for someone who would takeover as Prime Minister automatically in the event of a sudden inability of the Prime Minister to do so then the most logical thing would be for the position of First Secretary of State to have statutory duties added to it to make it a kind of Vice Prime Ministerial position.

[Andrew Bonar Law]

Maybe Sir John Simon who was a National Liberal or Viscount Halifax?

Neither would have been acceptable to anyone - Simon was (rightly) loathed on all sides, and Halifax's time had gone by the end of 1940 (and he was in America anyway as our man in Washington).

In fact Churchill told the King he would nominate Eden as his preferred successor, and Sir John Anderson (of shelter fame) if both he (Churchill) and Eden were killed in the same incident. Anderson was not really a Conservative, though he sat in Parliament under the label during the war - he was a civil servant.

[Yet Another Anon]

Clement Attlee and Anthony Eden have so far been the only people designated as Deputy Prime Minister to go on to serve as Prime Minister.

[Sasha]

Getting back to the subject, I fear that she is actually quite clever, certainly in the case of her becoming Deputy leader. She supported Blair quite loyally up until now, where she suddenly disagrees with policies that are contencious with Labour party members.

[powellite]

This is fantastic news. No-one knows who she is, and those who do don't like her. Excellent. I find it rather ironic she was banging on about support for the family when this Government's done all it can to undermine the family at every turn.

As for her comment on Cameron about only being interested in women's votes - was I right in hearing throughout her speech, she was talking about how wonderful Labour's policies were - not in terms of their inherent goodness, but about the fact that they'll play well in the marginal constituencies? I don't like calling people hypocrites, but in this case...

[Graeme Archer]

She's vile. The reason so many interviewers comment on her china-blue eyes is that, doll-like, they signal the lack of anything human behind them.