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If there is one area where Cameron is encouragingly and definitely the 'heir to Blair' it is in his optimism.

Conservatism, with its acceptance of human wickedness and imperfectability, is and always has been a deeply pessimistic outlook.

A fact, of course, which is quite irrelevant to Cameron's repeatedly expressed desire to be the Heir of Blair.

In many ways they are indeed two peas in a profoundly unconservative pod

Very good Tim and Sam, but you semm to have avoided the question of nappies, which has had the media and bloggers in some speculation.

I think there is a difference, Traditional Tory, between revolution and utopianism (which no conservative should accept) and a Reaganesque 'can do' optimism.

A very clever piece Tim. I can't say that I disagree with you on anything particularly although there are few categories where I would put a don't know against both Brown and Cameron. I'm really not sure how wedded either are to spin or whether either are genuinely EU sceptic for example.

I think, Ed, that begs the question as to whether there really is such a thing as a true American conservatism.

Alexander Hamilton was probably the last real Conservative in the US, and look what happened to him.

I can never get my head round a country based on the principle that all men are free and equal - unless they're black, where famous liberal internationalists turn out to have had links with the KKK. and all sorts of other politically bizarre things happen.

The Republican Party executed something like a 180 degree turn in its ideology over the century following the Civil War.

It's another world, and perhaps one best avoided. However, having said that I actually admire the 'can do' philosophy which permeates American life.

It'll never happen here.

Congratulations -- a brilliant feature

Agree with almost all of your calibrations

A bit sceptical about the establishment/anti-establishment divide -- how does one decide who is the establishment on certain issues?

Whereas your positions for Brown and Cameron are opinions the positions you give yourself must be true. A good exercise in openness on your part although revelatory for some readers of your site.

Tim,

Interesting. But I think the difference between CH and both 'leaders' is that they need wider appeal. To plot what both these men really believe would (I think) see Cameron closer to conhome and Brown much farther to the left. If one studies Browns form before Smith died he was much more left-wing. Similarly Cameron has become more populist of late because he has seen the mileage he can get, and needs, because there is a trust issue between his party and the electorate, i.e. what will we do in power? Are we strong enough to unite on our manifesto? Similarly Brown has built up the trust issue over time - but is dangerously strained now. Cameron needs to fight Brown in the centre but on ideological terms [sic] (individual vs state etc). This was the emphasis of his speech yesterday, but much of the press and commentators have ignored this and used it to attack him, probably because of a bias. But as announcements on policy direction are rolled out he should be able to counter this, well he better, otherwise we are sunk.

Thank you Erasmus.

I have a go at defining what I mean by establishment here.

Would 'institutions' not hit the mark?

Editor

FWIW, I am surprised your new establishment includes the armed forces which I would have had down as being old establishment and sharing the old establishment's views more than the new one's. Also you do not include the police whose higher echelons have to one degree or another been IMO far more susceptible to buying in to the pc cultural Marxist nostrums of the last thirty odd years than the armed services have.

Political Compass is a lot of fun.

I did say, Bill, that the military tended to be a force for conservatism although the recent behaviour of the Navy makes me wonder a little!

I agree with you about the top bods in the police.

I am very interested in the authentic and pragmatic comparisons.

Politics is the art of the possible -- so forces politicians away from ideology and towards pragmatism. I see ideology ss a good quality for a commentator, but pragmatism is a necessary evil for a politician.

On authenticity, it’s easy to over-estimate your own while underestimating others’. When we change our mind or are thwarted, we know in ourselves that what we previously said was authentic. However, when a politician changes their mind or is thwarted it is a sign of weakness and potentially a breach of mandate. Part of a politician’s skill set is to judge how much error to admit.

At passing leftie's suggestion I just redid the political compass test. I could not believe it (and am sure others wouldn't either) but it placed me almost in the centre, just short of the x=0, y=o axes. Which gives me all the more difficulty with the C4 survey.

Thanks Tim. A genuine belly laugh from this thread.

I actually admire the 'can do' philosophy which permeates American life.

That's because of The Frontier and the push westwards.......the nearest equivalent for this country was Protestantism and The Empire......the ability to go to fresh territory and start anew made for a different culture........remember that when the homeless Confederate soldiers were becoming post-Civil War cowboys and driving cattle up the Chisholm Trail, England was a highly industrialised and urbanised country

I actually admire the 'can do' philosophy which permeates American life.

That's because of The Frontier and the push westwards.......the nearest equivalent for this country was Protestantism and The Empire......the ability to go to fresh territory and start anew made for a different culture........remember that when the homeless Confederate soldiers were becoming post-Civil War cowboys and driving cattle up the Chisholm Trail, England was a highly industrialised and urbanised country

I think using the political compass methodology (which has some research behind it) might be interesting as well. Where would Brown and Cameron fit on that and generally which groups in society might cluster where on that axis.

Matt

I'm in Japan for a wedding.
I'm so impressed by the courtesy of the people, their industry and their joy at everyday work.
However the tour guides are inflexible in wet weather, so they aren't perfect.
But if we could instil the efficiency of their rail service on ours, we would be reformed overnight!

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