No longer The Torygraph?

I've written for Comment is free about the difficult relationship between The Telegraph and the Tory leadership.  I argue that The Telegraph should still matter to the Tories:

"In the same way that Tony Blair pursued the endorsement of Rupert Murdoch and The Sun, David Cameron has devoted an enormous amount of energy to neutralising the traditional hostility of the BBC towards the Conservative Party. Keeping The Telegraph happy matters a lot less to Team Cameron than a good relationship with Nick Robinson et al. But the Telegraph-Tory relationship should still matter. The Telegraph remains the newspaper most widely read by the party's most active supporters although the blogosphere is already beginning to provide these supporters with faster, more comprehensive and interactive coverage of Tory news. In a close election The Telegraph would play a vital role in energising centre-right voters."

3pm update from The Guardian: Simon Heffer to stop being Telegraph Comment Editor.

Comments

[Gospel of Enoch]

If Camerloon is not careful, then the DT could always switch to UKIP... :-)

[Jack Stone]

The Daily Telegraph and UKIP would suit one another. A paper of the past supporting a party who want to live in the past.

[Jimbo Jones]

There are some interetsting comments on Politicalbetting today suggesting that the online section of the paper only publishes negative comments about Cameron in the comments section after articles and that positive comments about Cameron are not shown.

[Mark Fulford]

...the DT could always switch to UKIP... :-)

Nah, their circulation is already in decline. They don't want it to go into freefall...

[George Hinton]

What DC needs to recognise, is that the BBC is pathologically opposed to the Tories on idealogical grounds and sucking up to that nest of leftie vipers will all end in tears.
Short term gain does not make a very firm foundation, and the BeeB will take enormous pleasure in blowing DC's house of cards apart. All this searching for the edges of the middle ground, the next prop, is simply aping NuLab, and doing so without the Stalinist grip that Mandelson and Blair developed. Indeed, going off to the left in search of support is rather akin to selling one's soul to the devil. The lefties will never whole-heartedly support DC, no matter what the policy, and will seek the first opportunity for the stab in the back.
Sarkozy may well have seduced a doyen of the socialists to join his party as Foreign Secretary, but note the reaction, a wrathful left excommunictaed him.
That is what you get from the left.
DC would do well to remember where his support comes from, certainly not from a bunch of sandal wearing, Guardian reading, PC driven 'ista's.

[malcolm]

Not sure that the fault always lies with Cameron Tim. The Telegraph hasn't really followed a consistent line since Charles Moore left. The divisions amongst its leading columnists are huge and the current Editor seems to have adopted a very low profile with his editorial direction. Personally I think that's a good thing as it make the Daily Telegraph (as opposed to the Sunday) an unpredictable and therefore more interesting read.
I also quite like the idea of our party not being 'in hock' to media magnates as the current government is with News International. For that reason I would prefer it if Cameron and team were occasionally publically critical of the BBC when their biased coverage becomes outrageous as with the recent local elections.
O/T I'm not usually a fan of the ever glum Simon Heffer but his tribute to Sir Edward Elgar in todays paper is some of the finest writing I've seen in years.
Also O/T you can always rely on Jack Stone (above) for a trite and unthinking comment can't you?

[Anon]

Do we have proof that The Telepraph is 'most widely read by the party's most active supporters'?

Also sorry I have to take issue with the comment "although the blogosphere is already beginning to provide these supporters with faster, more comprehensive and interactive coverage of Tory news."

As I posted yesterday, I would have thought that proportionally very few party members read this site, or Iain Dale's, or anyone else's for that matter. I know you and Iain can bamboozle me with numbers of hits per day, per month etc and results of opt-in surveys, but there are still many many party members who do not surf, or if they do it's to find a cheap flight, not to read your daily utterings. Sorry. As I said a lot of the blogsphere is all about self-promotion. However you are only one communication channel of many, but if you think that party members in their 50s, 60s, 70s, 80s and 90s are all going to stop reading the Telegraph and start logging on to you each day, think again. It ain't gonna happen.

And we still have a lot (the majority based on the party's last membership survey) of party members and supporters in their 50s and older.

As you say, "In a close election The Telegraph would play a vital role in energising centre-right voters.". I would say the Telegraph (along with The Sun and others) should and will play a vital role, whether its a close election or not.

[Old Hack]

Who are these loons who think that UKIP is somehow any sort of national force?

SIX COUNCILLORS - that's all they got - SIX COUNCILLORS in the local elections.

Really think that the DT or any serious paper would back that?

Get real.

[Man in a Shed]

Jimbo Jones - is there any evidence of that ? Or could it be that your bed rock Tory voters aren't too happy right now.

[HF]

To woo the Telegraph requires a competent media relations operation.

[Matt Davis]

Perhaps it isn't that the Telegraph have abandoned the Tories rather that the Tories have abandoned Conservatism?

[Jennifer Wells]

The Sun and Mail are much more important than The Telegraph. The closesness of Wade and Dacre to Brown is the worry.

[Victoria Street]

This is the Clause IV moment. Does the Conservative Party have the guts to abandon the Daily Telegraph? I think it does.
The Telegraph has fallen under the spell of a political editorial team that is so hostile to Cameron - and it is personal - that it would prefer another Labour term to a Cameron victory.
Camron has clearly concluded from the very first day of his leadership that he and the Party can live without the Telegraph's support. He knows that Simon Heffer despises him with a unique passion and that as long as he remains influential at the Telegraph, the paper's editorial line will not change.
The question is now for the Barclay Brothers. In a climate of falling sales, how much longer can they put Heffer ahead of their readers. When it comes down to it, their readers' support for the Conservative Party is greater than for any Telegraph editorial line.
Cameron was right to describe the Telegraph's reaction to the schools speech as 'hysterical'. The paper is in danger of becoming unreadable.
If they continue to back Heffer, they will lose the majority of their Conservative supporters. I'd be interested to know where they think the replacements would come from.

[welberry]

The bigger story is whether Cameron dare take on Murdoch. Rumours have circulated for some time that Hilton wants to set up a symobolic confrontation between DC and RM as part of the whole repositioning exercise. Obviously they haven't had the courage to go through with it yet!

[Edward]

I have to say, I've found the decline in quality of the paper, its articles, its writing, its editorial standards and its columnists since Charles Moore left heart-breaking.

It used to be a friend now it mildly irritates and depresses me.

[jimbo jones]

Man in a shed - I would direct you this page http://politicalbetting.com/index.php/archives/2007/05/23/what-price-on-these-two-for-the-axe/#comments

read the comments 118 and 125

[welberry]

Editor,

you may be interested in this:

http://media.guardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/0,,2086395,00.html

[Michael Rutherford]

So because the Telegraph largely disagrees on grammar schools they might stop supporting us? Their columnists are mixed on Cameron, but the paper itself always seems pretty sympathetic.

Keep it proportionate. Grammar schools aren't the be all and end all. Thatcher and Major didn't introduce them and we are still in favour of streaming and possibly selection in city academies.

[Editor]

Thanks welberry. I've added that as a link in the main story.

[Victoria Street]

http://media.guardian.co.uk/presspublishing/story/0,,2086395,00.html
(Thanks to Mike L at PB.com.)

So it seems I may have been a tad prescient.

[Og]

Why should a newspaper change its editorial stance to suit the ambition of a political party, or individuals within a political party? As far as I can judge, the philosphy put forward by the Telegraph has been fairly consistent, and reading Chrles Moore in his weekly columns in the Telegraph and Spectator suggest that, were he still editor, he would back the Heffer/Daley line.

When and if the Tory policy review is complete, and the manifesto takes shape, I would expect the Telegraph to be honestly critical, offer praise where due and reach a balanced judgement. Anything else would be a waste of everyone's time and money.

All you Telegraph critics out there - which broadsheet do you read, and why?

[Perdix]

Coincidence! I recently complained to the DT about the exaggerations and distortions of Neocon Daley and UKIP Heffer. Cameron would be wise not to ingratiate himself with any media outlet. They will only demand something in return, if only to oil their egos.
His job is to do what's best for the country, not to initiate useless policy to please the Sun (or any other).A major weakness of the Blair government has been to pass laws to make a point in the Press but where implementation has been a total cock-up.
That's why Webcameron is an innovative attempt to open up an independent channel of commuication - although I can't tell how effective it has been.
On today's Politics Show, Ken Clarke (not normally my favourite Tory MP) dissected the current Tory furore with honesty, calmness and clarity, to the credit of the Party.
ConHome should not exaggerate its place as a mouthpiece for the Tory grassroots.The postings are frequently from obsessives and "permanently angry UKIP members".

[MH]

I think that some of the posters here have been grossly unfair to the Telegraph. It may GENERALLY adopt a sceptical tone to Cameron, but that is far from uniformly the case at all. However, I do find Jeff Randall one of its most persuasive reads who is unremittingly critical of Project Dave's economic and industrial policies - with a great deal deal of justfification though. Moreover, many economics journos in The Times are just as as critical too, so let's not let the paranoia get ahead of itself.

The overall issue is that Cameroonism is a PR exercise, with some evident repositioning of the Conservative Party towards Blair and New Labour.

[Chris]

"Who are these loons who think that UKIP is somehow any sort of national force?

SIX COUNCILLORS - that's all they got - SIX COUNCILLORS in the local elections.

Really think that the DT or any serious paper would back that?

Get real."
I may as well correct you before a rabid UKIP supporter does. They have 6 councillors in the tranche which was elected on May 3rd. They actually have 30 councillors (Including parish and town), and I'm sure you will agree that makes them a true force to be reckoned with ;)

[Curly]

Laughs with Chris , May 23, 2007 at 15:38.

That's what i like, a decent sense of humour.

Seriously, it would be far more to our advantage to have The Sun and The Mail fully on board, as a previous poster pointed out. It would then be more likely for The Telegraph to follow suit.

[EML]

Nah, the Telegraph is still friendly towards Cameron, it just picks up on the odd idea, speech or policy that it objects to.

Still the best paper in this country by a long shot. An impressive sports section combines with a decent mix of news and comment.

[jorgen]

No longer The Torygraph?
Or maybe the Party is no longer the Toryparty?

Daily Telegraph anyway seems to cover both sides, though it prints mostly real Conservative articles (for the benefit of you wet 'c'onservatives: yes, that is something like what UKIP stands for).

[Margaret on the Guillotine]

Og - you argue the line taken by the Telegraph now is consistent & the same as when Moore was editor. True enough - but you should read "The Strange Death of Tory England", for Geoffrey Wheatcroft's demolition of Charles Moore's philosophy and why the Telegraph's bashing of the Tory Party for not being ideologically pure is utterly self-defeating. You would have thought after 3 election defeats they would have learnt their lesson.

[Pisaboy]

If Geoffrey Wheatcroft wrote it, it's probably wrong. His odd polemic, Yo Blair!, betrays a real lack of judgement.

[Jonathan]

The Telegraph is still the Torygraph. There just aren't many Tories left in the modern Conservative party.

Those people who dismiss UKIP, simply because it is unimportant at the moment, are ill-informed or unthinking. UKIP is a minor party in a three Party system. It is actively discriminated against and denied the oxygen of press publicity by a united conspiracy of the media , which is afraid of its message. If a major newspaper like the Telegraph took up its cause and treated Cameron to the type of Omerta generally reserved for Farage then the situation would change and change quite quickly. No one in the 1920's would have predicted the sudden death of the Liberal Party. There is a hatred of all three main parties in the Country and a desire for something new; as evidence by reduced turnouts and the support of Others. It would take only a quite small nudge for it to go from zero to hero, especially if Brown dallies with PR.

[Ivan The Yid From Bradford]

Comments about the increasing importance of the web ignore the fact that the DT has one of the best linkages to the web of any national newspaper. The current editor and various sub editors including the one taking over from Heffer all have 'previous' ie experience at the DT's web operation before going onto the paper. If Heffer ever quits the DT I will move onto reading whichever paper he shifts too. Many grassroots Tories will do the same. If the DT quits supporting Camerloons party its the end. I couldn't support the party and many others will do the same.

[Sean Fear]

Yes, Geoffrey Wheatcroft is just odd.

[Robson]

I tend to take Randall's opinions with a MASSIVE pinch of salt. The guy has a personal issue with Cameron that goes back to Cameron's time at Carlton Television.

After Cameron became leader, Randall laid into him in the press. Make what you want of Cameron's response....

"Who is Jeff Randall? A person of no consequence."
(from 'Cameron: The Rise of the New Conservative')

Webcameron is okay. The Youtube's of Boris fumbling about in his office and saying he'd "grate and sprinkle" his ID card on his children's breakfast cereal actually does more good than harm with younger voters.

[jorgen]

Robson: "Who is Jeff Randall? A person of no consequence."

That shows that Cameron has a personal issue with Randall, not the other way round. Do you have any examples showing that Randall's critisism is personal?

[Og]

Margaret, thanks for the reading list, but no thanks. Wheatcroft's boat sank a long time ago, and I can adequately understand Moore's philosophy, taking or leaving it as I find it, without Wheatcroft's assistance.

You say (of the Telegraph, if I understand you) "You would have thought after 3 election defeats they would have learnt their lesson." Now I may not understand this politics business, but I could have sworn the Conservative Party contested elections, rather than the Telegraph.

[Bill]

I went off the Telegraph quite a bit after Charles Moore left. And until recently I think the paper has been quite supportive of Cameron, the more so given the easy target he made himself. If the paper has been redressing the balance, so much the better.

I do not know if it is of interest but my impression of comments left on this site and comments left on the Telegraph's site by members of the public has changed. Whilst there have always been quite a number of strong critics of project Cameron on this site, there has always been and there remains a vociferous number of supporters. My impression of the Telegraph site's commentators used to be that there were both fewer and less zealous detractors of project Cameron. The impression I now get is that there are far more anti-Cameroon posters leaving messages on the DT site and they are just as if not more vitriolic than what you will read here. Read into that what you will; I however think that whilst the leadership may be tempted to ignore criticism which might be written off as coming from political anoraks, to adopt such an attitude towards the wider public would be a big mistake.

[HF]

To add to my earlier comment on the need for a better media relations operation. The scale of the task facing us is very daunting.

We have the Murdoch papers (Times, Sun and Sun Times) supporting Labour and being warm to Brown.

We have the Mail and MOS headed by Brown's mate Dacre. Who employs some right wing juorno's (Hitchens and Phillips) who delight in attacking Cameron.

We then have the Independent and Guardian that support left of centre politicians.

The Express that has lost its way with Diana and other such nonsense.

All that then leaves is the Telegraph (and Sunday). These papers have hired Heffer and employ others like Janet Daley who attack Cameron rather than the Govt at any opportunity. Heffer even turns up in elections to support UKIP.

This is a minefield to negotiate and one that has claimed the carcasses of Hague, IDS etc. Which is why Cameron needs a superb media relations operation. Something he clearly does not have.

[TomTom]

Yes every party must its Pravda and Matthew d'Ancona has delivered The Spectator to Cameron & Co.; the fact that it is tedious and mindnumbing is probably part of d'Ancona's achievement.....but it did once have Mark Steyn and a bit of crispness - now it is soggy throughout.

[suffix]

At present he has nobody of sufficient stature or respect to talk to Editors, Leader writers, opinion formers etc

That would be the normal function of a Press Secretary.

the press office is the one area of Tory operations that has gone significantly backwards under DC.

[monetarist]

Paul Dacre's crush on Brown will soon go the way of the crush he had on Blunkett when our debt-soaked economy goes into meltdown later this year and he discovers that Brown is an even bigger charlatan than even Blunkett.

[Londoner]

Charles Moore definitely does NOT take the Heffer line on Cameron. He supported him for the leadership and continues generally to write sympathetically about him. It's true he is sceptical on the environment, and supports Bush/Blair on Iraq etc quite vocally, but he does not link these to any general anti-Cameron line at all. Anyone who thinks he does cannot read him at all closely.

As a long term D Tel reader (ever since a few early years with the Indy when it really was independent before it started campaigning for a single currency etc), it has clearly lost its coherance. If it went tabloid (a persistent rumour), it would certainly jolt me to re-think, but the problem is TINA really isn't it? Cannot stomach Murdock (and anyway the Times, with the exception of M Parris, always seems very inadequate when I read it, ditto the Independent). The Guardian may well now be the best newspaper but it's asking a bit much of a middle aged right of centre Tory to switch over to that.

Maybe Tim, Iain, and some more experienced journalists, should fill the gap by starting a new Tory-inclined paper, led by online content but also with hard copy in the larger centres of population? Just an idea.

[HF]

Dacre & Brown are know as the odd couple by the Mail juorno's.

[Londoner]

Small example of the inadequacy of the Telegraph is that it reports as "news" today that there is to be a PC/Con/LD coalition in Wales - and I read that on here days ago.

[malcolm]

Pretty good that we have a poll lead with such a hostile press eh HF?
I completely disagree with you about the Sunday Times which could not be more vitriolic about the government and its leading actors if it tried.
The Mail is strange, it sometimes says nice things about GB personally and then tears Labour apart on the inside pages.
The Times also has a split personality. Peter Riddell is a Blairite but Parris and Finkelstein? I don't think so. Most of its leaders are hostile to the government.
It is however difficult for a newspaper to be an avid Cameron supporter yet as with few exceptions they are unsure what policies he will promote. In time I think News International will come onside if they believe Cameron will win and Associated (Mail and MOS) will also campaign for a Conservative victory.

[HF]

Malcom, you are probably right about the Sunday Times as it has moved closer to the Conservatives. However it only comes out 1 day a week.

I did leave off the Mirror group which is to the left of Labour.

The effects of the Times, Mail and Telegraph are seen on the doorstep with the loss I estimate of about 2% of long term Conservative voters this year. These persistent attacks about him being a snake oil salesman and lacking substance are having an effect. I believe that his ratings have dipped and these papers are responsible for that.

Of course we could get lucky and find that Brown drives even more voters our way. Start praying.

[suffix]

You are right HF. The strategy is concentrate almost exclusively on broadcast media. That is why there is no senior figure as Press Secretary.

[Traditional Tory]

These persistent attacks about him being a snake oil salesman and lacking substance are having an effect.

Well, they got it right in one didn't they?

And it's hardly surprising that Nick 'Red Robbo' Robinson, former luminary of the far-left Tory Reform Group is backing his soulmate Cameron.

The attitude of the Camerloons - 'Why oh why won't the press support wonderful Dave?' - is as pitiful as one would expect from that pack of principle-free anoraks.

After all, these days there is no worthwhile social scene in the Tory Party, and you have to be a pretty far-gone geek to want to spend all your time in front of a PC posting tributes to your hero.

Step forward the usual suspects!

[Schlieffen Plan]

Suffix is bang on the money as far as the current CCHQ media setup is concerned.

At the risk of repeating a post from two days ago, nearly all our opponents employ seasoned media professionals in their press offices (former regional newspaper/local radio/24 hour TV news hacks) - ours is staffed by recent graduates from PR company training schemes/Tory councils or Brussels hand-me-downs.

Our head of media has never worked in the media (ex-strawberry farmer) and our head of broadcast (ex-banker) has never been a broadcaster. To my knowledge only two senior CCHQ press office personnel have any relevent media experience whatsoever (Daily Mail & Sunday Express) whilst those that did were dispatched shortly after the last general election.

Put simply, a political party that wishes to be taken seriously by the media must employ people with the relevent experience or risk immolation in the media firestorm of the like we have just witnessed.

Bring back Nick Wood....

[Traditional Tory]

As I suggested recently, Cameron has had it easy for months because Blair has been solely focused on promoting his post-PM image and trashing his successor. As a result the famous Labour spin-machine has withered on the vine.

Now that's all going to change and the next few months will sort out the men from the boys.

[Jake]

Jonathon said "There is a hatred of all three main parties in the Country and a desire for something new; as evidence by reduced turnouts and the support of Others. "

Yep . Never before have the 2 and a half main parties been so despised . They still get a large number of votes almost entirely because the system is contructed in theire favour an it is very difficult to find an alternative + habit ofcourse .

Can't go on forever . Westminster village is now so introverted and remote it is becoming a daily spectacle of disgust .

[Andrew]

"All that then leaves is the Telegraph (and Sunday). These papers have hired Heffer and employ others like Janet Daley who attack Cameron rather than the Govt at any opportunity. Heffer even turns up in elections to support UKIP. "

As a floating voter, if Heffer and Daley disagree with something then you know that it must be right.

I can not underestimate how powerful cameron's disagreements are with the 'fruitcakes' of the old right; the non-progressives - Telegragh / Heffer / Daley / Tebbit / grassroots to a floating voter.

I think the Cameroons are aware just how soft his support is. I have doubts about Cameron, and then he takes on the 'fruitcakes' and I realise that the Conservatives are on the right track.

All I will say, is stay on the 'progressive' path.

DO NOT let the 'fruitcakes' derail your attempts to be a party that can attract floating voters like me. They have done this in the past. Even if you slip in the polls after Brown comes in, please don't go off to the loony right again.

We've had 10 years of this Government because you guys couldn't sort yourselves out for the best part of a decade - don't let them rule for another decade.

[YHN]

Let's be honest, when you lose the next election, your inquest will conclude that you correctly recognised the need for change, to evolve, but in the end, you went too far left, won't it?

But then you won't listen, as you didn't in 2005 when your own inquest concluded that you had good policies but a bad image. So what did you do? You changed both!

You couldn't make it up.

[TomTom]

Robson: "Who is Jeff Randall? A person of no consequence."

Actually he has the better CV and Michael Green should hire more competent flunkeys if he wants to get his Financial PR right...

As for Charles Moore, he is an Old Etonian and also a Cambridge friend of Oliver Letwin.

[Traditional Tory]

I have doubts about Cameron, and then he takes on the 'fruitcakes' and I realise that the Conservatives are on the right track

I hope Cameron does take on the 'fruitcakes' (which no doubt include myself in Andrew's charming self-deprecating terminology). Personally I'm spoiling for a fight with him.

What we need is a absolute raging battle royal between Cameron and the Fruitcakes. One that goes on for week after week and month after month.

It doesn't matter who claims to win the batle; in the wider war Cameron will be finished.

We can then move in and make this party a truly Conservative Party once again. The careerists can then clear off to New Labour where they will, no doubt, be very happy.

[Andrew]

"We can then move in and make this party a truly Conservative Party once again."

That's right Traditional Tory. Move in and make it unelectable again. Its 2007 Sir, you need to move on and accept that your time is over.

[Dave Wilson]

Cirulations are slipping generally, but the Telegraph is a much superior read to the Times (and the others). It is free-thinkers like Heffer and Daley that make it interesting - and they might just have some messages for Cameron wprth noting.

[Richard Carey]

We've had 10 years of this Government because you guys couldn't sort yourselves out for the best part of a decade - don't let them rule for another decade.

Thanks for that, Andrew - it's good to hear in such a powerful, personal message how broadening the appeal of the Conservative Party is not just rhetoric.

I appreciate that we have a lot to do to maintain and cement your trust, but I hope to help fulfill that. I do apologise on behalf of my Conservative colleagues here for those who have displayed their enormous political savvy by attacking someone who is genuinely taking an open-minded view of our Party again!

[Dave Wilson]

Frankly, Brown and Cameron are both europhiles so what difference can it really make.

[Jarod Weaver]

What absolutely flabberghasts me, is that all you people think that the DT should follow, slavishly, the direction the current tory party is taking. If, by chance in 1983, the leaders of our party had been Shirley Williams, Roy Jenkins, David Owen and Bill Rodgers, would you all have swallowed what they stood for without question? Cameron and his Notting Hill cohorts have turned our party into a left of centre social democratic party, who believe in the state, rather than the private initiative that Keith Joseph and Margaret Thatcher battled so hard to win. As for all those who argue that people like me live in the past, if you're happy to see 2007's Conservative party as the SDP of our times, then you have no political principle other than winning power for power's sake. Simon Heffer has never changed his beliefs and has always stood by his principles. Cameron is a political opportunist and alot of you haven't the balls to stick to what you believed in the past. Shame on you.

[Alexander Drake]

Jarod, when you change the government you change the country.

A change of government has to be the first priority for the Conservative Party. Then other changes come.

David Cameron is right to focus on positioning the party for a change of government.

[Robson]

"Cameron and his Notting Hill cohorts have turned our party into a left of centre social democratic party, who believe in the state, rather than the private initiative that Keith Joseph and Margaret Thatcher battled so hard to win."

With 'friends' like 'Jarod Weaver', who needs enemies?! I've quoted the above statement because the first half of it is blatantly false, and the second part DID happen, it happened 20+ years ago, and it's time to move on!!

[Alexander Drake]

Robson, it's the political equivalent of the type of person who stands around at a concert for a band that's been around for a long time, but is now enjoying new-found success, muttering "I liked their old stuff better than their new stuff".

[Read it and smile]

Steyn, Heffer, Littlejohn, Randall, Hitchens, Phillips - Put them together and you'd have a formidable newspaper

[puzzled]

Would any of you rather a Gordon Brown led Labour Party won the next General Election?

[Jarod Weaver]

so, robson, move on means lurch left. You lurch if you want to, this blogger's not for lurching. YOU'VE ACCEPTED THE BLAIR CONSENSUS! HAVE YOU DITCHED ALL OF YOUR PRINCIPLES? WHAT DO YOU STAND FOR ROBSON? HOW ARE YOU DIFFERENT TO THE LABOUR PARTY? PLEASE TELL ME. IF I LIVE IN THE PAST, WOULD I BE BETTER OFF BEING A MANDLESON TYPE TORY WITH NO STANCE, NO PRINCIPLES. HOW DARE YOU WRITE OFF MARGARET THATCHER AS A REACTIONARY. ARE YOU A TORY MR ROBSON? I THINK NOT. JOIN THE LABOUR PARTY, IT'S THE SAME BLOODY THING.

[Dave Wilson]

Brown revolts me, but Cameron is shallow. Brown would possibly defend this country's interests a touch better than Cameron. The future under either is grim.

[Richard Carey]

HAVE YOU DITCHED ALL OF YOUR PRINCIPLES?

More to the point, "Jarod", have you taken a look at your keyboard lately?

That key with the glowing light on it is called Caps Lock...

[Alexander Drake]

Puzzled, some people that post on this site would undoubtedly say, "Yes".

Either because they are non-Tory trolls, or are consumed by bizarre reverse class prejudice towards Cameron (even more repellant than the real thing).

That,or they are trapped in some awful timewarp, convinced nothing politically good happened after 1990. More to the point, they probably think of 1990, almost half a generation ago, as just being 'yesterday'. Which is half of the problem.

[Alexander Drake]

Jarod - you are Victor Meldrum and I claim my five pounds.

[Alexander Drake]

oops Meldrew.

[Jarod Weaver]

I hit caps lock, Richard because I was angry, do you have a serious point to make Richard? Or are you thick, with no other point to make?

[Dave Wilson]

One good thing that started after 1990 was the fight back against the EU. That opposition is now supported by the majority, but the people have yet to be persuaded actually to vote against the europhiles who continue to sink us further in.

[Jarod Weaver]

Alexander, if you're comparing the governance of our country to the music we liked from a certain band, then you are thick and stupid. I think it's time you grew up, and maybe realised that the artic monkeys, a great band as they are would make a bad government. Or maybe do you feel that the zeitgeist is what good governance is all about. Ok Leif Garrett in 1978 should have been prime minister. Steve Strange, 1981 Chancellor. Seriously mate you're talking crap.

[Traditional Tory]

Alexander comes from Oz. where Lord Snooty types like Dave are likely to get a pretty good kicking. Down under, Eton is something you do round a barbie.

So exactly where is our Aussie mate coming from? Does he have aristopom aspirations?

Answers on a postcard please...

[Traditional Tory]

Alexander comes from Oz. where Lord Snooty types like Dave are likely to get a pretty good kicking. Down under, Eton is something you do round a barbie.

So exactly where is our Aussie mate coming from? Does he have aristopom aspirations?

Answers on a postcard please...

[Alexander Drake]

Don't mind me, Traditional Tory, there a chip on your shoulder, I'll brush it off for you.

[Matt Wright]

The DT needs to look at what it is doing before it becomes a joke,

Matt

[A H Matlock]

Alexander - I've been hoping you might re-appear. I want to know what your view of the current state of Federal politics in Oz is? The news reports we are getting here are absolutely ghastly for the Coalition!

[Alexander Drake]

Jarod, have a look at my post again. Three key words - "political equivalent of". Think them through, and reconsider the post.

[Richard Carey]

do you have a serious point to make Richard? Or are you thick, with no other point to make?

Calm down. I think that the people here who know me will tell you that is pretty unlikely! I just choose not to make them now to the likes of you. Oh, and if you're going to get snotty, you spelt Mandelson wrongly too.

[Alexander Drake]

Alastair, greetings from Sydney.

Yes, the polls are tanking for the Coalition, sadly.

My guess is that the PM has maybe one or two more Newspolls to demonstrate he will get a post-Budget bounce.

If he can't, then sadly the Coalition is in real trouble. We then head back to high interest rates and the unions...

There has been some speculation in the last few days that Howard will resign to give Costello a shot (new face, clean slate, etc) but Howard has emphatically rejected this.

My guess at this stage is that people have stopped just liking what they see in Rudd, and are now contemplating switching their vote.

I think the odds on Centrebet and Sportsbet (favouring Labor) are pretty accurate.

About six months to go until the election Alastair, and my advice would be to manage expectations about the outcome...

Keep an eye on the Newspolls in the Australian to track how we're doing.

[A H Matlock]

I shall do that, Alexander. Best of luck to you and your colleagues - it looks as though you may need it!

[TomTom]

even more repellant than the real thing).

Stupid comment. It rarely damages life chances as much as what you called admiringly the real thing ....a world where class would decree whether a brave soldier received a Military Cross or a Military Medal

[Traditional Tory]

Don't mind me, Traditional Tory, there a chip on your shoulder, I'll brush it off for you

That's OK Alex. It's only one of those dangly cork things you cobbers wear on your hats. I always like to get myself in the mood when bonzer blokes like you are on line.

Since your colleagues down under seem to be bombing right now, maybe I'd better find the Aussie version of CH and sit up all night offering gratuitous advice to a bunch of politicians who have absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with me.

After all, having recently enjoyed a couple of spectacular benders in our local Outback Bar I am clearly far better equipped to comment on Australian politics than anybody who has been actively involved for the past umpteen years.

[Graeme Archer]

There is surely some sort of irony (though am frightened to employ that word since I can no longer understand its definition, after that delicious demolition of the ghastly Morissette woman by v funny Newcastle comic whose name, of course, escapes me, despite the fact we went to see him at the Empire just a few months ago, what's his name, always on Just A Minute, Ross Noble, that's it) isn't there, in having the Editor of Conservative Home write in the Guardian about how leading Conservatives should spend more time appealing to the Telegraph than writing in organs like, umm, the Guardian?

Anyway. Am pleased to know that am not the only former Telegraph reader who feels a bit confused and bewildered by that paper post-Charles Moore. I am pretty sure that it's not possible to review its editorial output and not come to the conclusion that they've decided to attack David Cameron, and any actual policy disagreements they find are post hoc. Simon Heffer is a creature beyond parody, but Janet Daley used to be one of the people I loved to read. She now turns out the same article week after week, the point of which is simply to diss Cam. Another great journalist, Danny Finkelstein, takes her latest effort to bits at the Times' Comment Central.

So why would we bother with the Telegraph? I don't like being judgemental (really) but I find it hard to rate highly political advice from anyone if their starting point is 'we should make ourselves more appealing to the Telegraph'. Umm, no we shouldn't. Our last manifesto may as well have been called the Daily Mail. The Telegraph is now like a shriller version of the Daily Mail, perhaps slightly less obsessed with the impact of illegal immigrants on women in the workplace and the coming slide in houseprices (I'm paraphrasing a little). So the advice is that we should become shriller, and that this will make us more successful?

[Editor]

Very disappointing to read that Alexander. Let's hope for an improvement soon.

[ken Allan]

The Telegraph online has been up and down for the last few days as a result of a hacker attack apparently. It would come as no great surprise to discover that the crypto-commy Brown was behind it or even a disgruntled Dave. It is a sign of the times we live in that one would even consider the possibility!

[Dr David Valentine]

As one of the 60+'s mentioned above, I read the Telegraph comment online daily. I certainly would never buy the rag as 95% of it is full of new Brit padding like the rest of the rags. Whatever happened to investigative journalism? Never have we been more in need of it.
I enjoy much of the content because it tends to echo my own thoughts on Cameron's Blair impersonation which may start to look a little right wing once Brown is in! Having been a lifelong Tory voter there is nothing that would persuade me to vote for him, least of all the DT taking a hard pro-Cameron stance.

[Robson]

People keep harking back to Thatcher - Cameron's more of a conservative than she was; she was a neo-liberal!

What's the difference between Labour and the Cons? I can think of 3 straight away: Cameron's Tories want a smaller state, tax incentives for married couples and no ID cards.

Cameron says he won't build more grammar schools (who seriously thought any PM would??) and changes the party logo and suddenly according to some Tories he's a communist!

Beggars belief some of the stuff on here.

[Anon Mk I]

Congratulations everyone.

By the postings above you have just proved what Theresa May was saying when she called us the 'nasty' party. Some of you are very nasty indeed and to answer the earlier comment, yes I think some so-called Conservative party supporters would rather Gordon Brown win the next election. Now that is delusional.

If you do think that, do us all a favour and go away and waste your time doing something else instead. Can I suggest meddling with high voltage power cables.

Face facts. David Cameron is leader of the party and he won the race with a huge mandate from party members. You may not like it, but that's the way it is. We have a big battle ahead of us to win the next election - and yes, that's the plan by the way and you never know, if he does it you might all be raging on about him in 20 years time like many of you do now about Mrs T. Remember at the time she wasn't particularly internally popular either.

All fighting with each other does is waste time, give the opposition ammunition and take away the focus of where the action needs to be. If you do want to have discussions about policy hold them behind closed doors - not in public! Maybe Tim might like to think about that as another string to his bow, so to speak. The ConHome think tank, but there are of course many others you can choose from already. Second thoughts, maybe the market's saturated, unless you find a USP.

Anon Mk 1 (yes Traditional Tory, the very same)

[Bill]

Robson says Maggie was a neo-liberal! Fair enough. I would hope Cameron could be one too.

Then we get Anon Mk 1's version of events. LOL.

FWIW I was very glad when Maggie became leader. After all as education secretary she stopped the horrible creamy milk which was left out in the sun for us before we had to drink it at school. Of course the media bleated on about it for years. They didn't have to drink it.

[Traditional Tory]

Hi Anon Mk I

By the postings above you have just proved what Theresa May was saying when she called us the 'nasty' party. Some of you are very nasty indeed

So very true..

do us all a favour and go away and waste your time doing something else instead. Can I suggest meddling with high voltage power cables

And you're certainly right up there with the best of us AM1!

[Gospel of Enoch]

"Face facts", Anon1: Camerloon was elected having pledged to widthdraw from the EPP. He welshed on that, and deserves everything the Telegraph throws at him!

[TomTom]

Theresa May was saying when she called us the 'nasty' party.

Yes she is one of the clumsiest and least astute members of the Shadow Cabinet and charmless and characterless.....she is no real asset

[TomTom]

I think some so-called Conservative party supporters would rather Gordon Brown win the next election.

As you get older you realise that what is likely to happen is not what you wish to happen. The odds are on Gordon Brown winning any future election - the incumbent always has the advantage - and so long as he is not hyperactive people will just get used to him as Prime Minister as they did with John Major in 1990....and two years later he scored one of the best election results ever