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Not sure about Parliamentary procedure. Is there now anything to stop this becoming law?
This bill is a huge mistake in my opinion and Maclean should be ashamed of himself. Sometimes the stupidity of our legislators (from all parties) defies belief. You can bet this bill will,if enacted, be portrayed quite successfully by our enemies as a 'Conservative' bill.

totally agree Malcolm. Appalling idiocy.

That's twice now!

It is telling that McLean has apparently refused many invitations from Today to come and talk about his bill. How often to backbenchers turn down the chance to persuade the nation that their bill is important?

What is it that Mclean wants to hide?

A total own goal by our Party, and by Maclean in particular. Are they really incapable of understanding how this goes down with the public?


A new word for me!

Thanks Sam. Reading CH is an education.

Go on surprise me - is there anyone reading this site who thinks this Bill is a good idea?

It's down to the Lords, now, to demonstrate which House is the more democratic.

Thanks Umbrella Man (by the way, do you like Rhianna?). It's not a word I've heard outside of literary critiques yet, but it's a very apt word for politics!

On Maclean's apparent lack of enthusiasm Simon, I can't quite remember the wording but he has also been criticised for not attending debates on this issue. Not that it mattered, all of his interventions in this one were shot down pretty convincingly.

The Bill has now passed the Commons, and goes to the Lords where it will again not be subject to a Whip. If the Lords pass it unamended before November, then it becomes law. If they amend it, then the Commons has to find the time to debate the amendments.

There is a good case made by the proponents of the Bill. The original intention was to entirely exempt the workings of Parliament from the Freedom of Information Act because it already has robust procedures for disclosure. However, rulings by the Information Commissioner have held that correspondence between MPs and public bodies can be disclosed even if intended to be confidential. Anyone with any experience working for an MP will know people come with extremely personal problems, which they would not want discussed. The Bill is there to protect the public, not the MPs.

Let's hope the voters give him a good hiding...

So...this Bill proposes that MPs arent covered by the FOI Act, but that the Data Protection Act basically does that anyway?

Regarding the more recent comment pointing out a good reason for it, cant that be covered by an amendment of the Data Protection Act?

Isn't it Friday ?

Haven't they all gone home for a 3-day weekend ?

I thought Friday was a no-show day

I think the point is, James, that what the Bill is supposed to be addressing is already adequately addressed by the DTA and that taking them out of the FOI has lots of other ramifications, notably a lack of accountability about how they spend our money.

A total of 78 Labour MPs and 18 Tories backed the Freedom of
Information (Amendment) Bill's third reading.

They were:

78 Labour: Bob Ainsworth (Coventry North East), Graham Allen (Nottingham North), Janet Anderson (Rossendale & Darwen), Adrian
Bailey (West Bromwich West), Sir Stuart Bell (Middlesbrough), Clive Betts (Sheffield Attercliffe), Liz Blackman (Erewash), Nick Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East & Wallsend), Colin Burgon (Elmet), David Cairns (Inverclyde), Alan Campbell (Tynemouth), Ronnie Campbell (Blyth Valley),David Clelland (Tyne Bridge), Harry Cohen (Leyton & Wanstead), Wayne David (Caerphilly), Parmjit Dhanda (Gloucester), Brian Donohoe (Ayrshire Central), Frank Doran (Aberdeen North), Jim Dowd (Lewisham West), Angela Eagle (Wallasey), Maria Eagle (Liverpool Garston), Clive Efford (Eltham), Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar & Canning Town), Caroline Flint (Don Valley), Michael Foster (Worcester), Mike Hall (Weaver Vale), Tom Harris (Glasgow South), Doug Henderson
(Newcastle upon Tyne North), John Heppell (Nottingham East), Keith Hill (Streatham), Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore), Kevan Jones (Durham North), Martyn Jones (Clwyd South), Fraser Kemp (Houghton & Washington East), David Lammy (Tottenham), Bob Laxton (Derby North), Tom Levitt (High Peak), Ivan Lewis (Bury South), Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central), Tommy McAvoy (Rutherglen & Hamilton West), Stephen McCabe (Birmingham Hall Green), Ian McCartney (Makerfield), John McFall (Dunbartonshire West), Shona McIsaac (Cleethorpes), Tony McNulty (Harrow East), Khalid Mahmood (Birmingham Perry Barr), David Marshall (Glasgow East), Gillian Merron (Lincoln), Alun Michael (Cardiff South & Penarth), Laura Moffatt (Crawley), Elliot Morley (Scunthorpe), George Mudie (Leeds East), Meg Munn (Sheffield Heeley), Denis Murphy (Wansbeck), James Plaskitt (Warwick & Leamington), Stephen Pound (Ealing North), Ken Purchase (Wolverhampton North East), John Robertson (Glasgow North West), Frank Roy (Motherwell & Wishaw), Joan Ryan (Enfield North), Martin Salter (Reading West), Jonathan Shaw (Chatham & Aylesford), Jimmy Sheridan (Paisley & Renfrewshire North), Sion Simon (Birmingham Erdington), Angela C Smith (Sheffield Hillsborough), Anne Snelgrove (Swindon South), John Spellar (Warley), Ian Stewart (Eccles), Mark Tami (Alyn & Deeside), Dari Taylor (Stockton South), Gareth Thomas (Harrow West), Dr Desmond Turner (Brighton Kemptown), Claire Ward (Watford), Tom Watson (West Bromwich East), Dave Watts (St Helens North), Malcolm Wicks (Croydon North), Phil Woolas (Oldham East & Saddleworth), David Wright (Telford)

18 Conservative: Peter Atkinson (Hexham), Simon Burns (Chelmsford West), Sir John Butterfill (Bournemouth West), James Duddridge (Rochford & Southend East), Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East), Julie Kirkbride (Bromsgrove), Greg Knight (Yorkshire East), Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East), David Maclean (Penrith & The Border), Bob Neill (Bromley & Chislehurst), Andrew Pelling (Croydon Central), Mark Pritchard (Wrekin, The), John Randall (Uxbridge), David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds), David Tredinnick (Bosworth), Ann Widdecombe (Maidstone & The Weald), Lady Ann Winterton (Congleton), Sir Nicholas Winterton (Macclesfield)

Tellers for the Ayes were Tory Tim Boswell (Daventry) and Labour's Andrew Dismore (Hendon).

Thank you Blair. It's good to know the list of villains.

Can I be the first to suggest that the Conservative party would do well to deselect the 18?

This kind of makes a joke of the party's 'Democracy Taskforce'.

Maclean should hang their heads in shame, as well as the other Conservatives voting for it, of which I'm ashamed to say include Widdecome and the Wintertons. Very disappointing.

I agree with Bishop Hill, I am disgusted with all 18 and will never campaign for any of them should the occasion arrive.

Many of them are bed blockers. Butterfill is the one who went public calling for more pay for MPs! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=420248&in_page_id=1770&ito=1490

As for Bob Neill it illustrates the complete lack of any political nous he so eloquently demonstrated in his own by election.


This kind of makes a joke of the party's 'Democracy Taskforce'.

Maclean and co. should hang their heads in shame, as well as the other Conservatives voting for it, of which I'm ashamed to say include Widdecome and the Wintertons. Very disappointing.

What a criminal waste of the opportunity afforded by a place in the private members bill ballot. This idiot clearly lacks the sense he was born with.

If he wanted to do something useful with the parliamentary time, why not introduce a Compulsory Grammar Schools Bill?

Surprised by some of the names on the Tory side - though unlike Mr Aker not at all suprised by the Winterton & Widdecombe votes.

Understand Richard Sheppard & I think John Redwood voted on the side of the angels.

They did indeed Ted. Redwood mentioned it in his blog.

Sky News are describing it as a "Tory members bill".

Yet another PR own goal.

The Lib Dems are described as very upset and that they are protesting about it. Very good PR for them.

The Tories who voted in favour of this bill (if they are standing) deserve an independent to stand against them at the next election. Do they still think it is the early nineteenth century?

I saw the liberals were trying to fillibuster this bill. At one point one MP was talking abou a poorly placed bucket that acted as a trip hazard somewhere in westminster.

Yes, C Hodgson, credit where it is due the liberals did well in trying to fillibuster...but Maclean kept popping up calling to move the vote.

Well it has now passed and David Cameron should hang his head in shame on taking a so called "neutral" approach on a motion put up by one of his party. Labour also said the same yet got all its whips onto the job of ensuring a majority.
It will be interesting to see what will happen to the Deputy Speaker.
We must now rely on the Upper House who usually have far more wisdom. Another own goal for the Conservative Party and its leader.

We are falling even faster than before.

Bloody hell, why haven't the leadership on either side of the House whipped their people into coming out to vote against this? It's completely unacceptable hypocrisy, and it's going to look awful for us.

Is it any wonder that MPs are collectively held in such low esteem? The NAO should investigate them. Their legislative duties are
a joke since they passed 80% of them to the EU. As for the executive, the less said the better. We need a new Oliver Cromwell.

Colin Holland: What do you mean by "It will be interesting to see what will happen to the Deputy Speaker"? Are you accusing her of a lack of neutrality or not following correct procedure? Because I don't see any basis for such an accusation.

Tim: Could you invite McLean to respond to the comments on this thread? Whilst we are at it, get can we get Cameron to respond, despite it being a private members bill, this issue is too important for him to stay silent on.

WHo put Maclean up to this. Funny how they do this just as Front Benches discuss ripping off the taxpayer to fund political parties

Not with you TomTom, are you saying there is a conspiracy

Isn't the saying you get the politicians you deserve?

I guess one good thing about this is it shows the efficacy of the private members bill process. Not.

I agree entirely with Malcolm - at the top of this thread concerning this bill, and indeed as someone else said, what on earth has the man Maclean got to hid? And if he has nothing to hide, he sure ain't acting that way!

Apalled to see Simon Burns and Duddridge on this list. I thought both were meant to be good guys.
Not suprised to see the Wintertons who both have a massive sense of their own self importance. 'Three jobs Bob' thouygh defies belief. I would have thought that someone who brought embarrasment to his party with his abysmal performance in the B & C by-election would be keen to restore his reputation. Clearly he doesn't give a damn about it.

Let's have a campaign to deselect the 18 Conservatives who voted for this disgraceful, antidemocratic amendment.

David Boothroyd, this may explain the point Colin Holland was making regarding the Speaker and his deputies.

This private members bill amazes me. On top of the Labour pushed bill to increase "communication" expenses we now have a really dodgy situation where incumbents spend huge amounts of taxpayers money on propaganda and it is almost impossible to probe what they are upto! Strikes me as anti-democratic. Thank God most of the Conservative MPs didn't support this private members bill. Amazed at the 18 who did!


Matt, most Conservative MP's may not have supported the bill but far too many of them seemed to be missing when the vital vote took place!
I just wish a few more had turned up and followed that small band through the nay lobby

I'm amazed that Dr Julian Lewis is on the list. I worked for him during his first successful Westminster campaign and am shocked and disappointed.

scotty: I think the only MPs who can claim any credit are those that bothered to turn up and vote against. This is a good opportunity for CH to show our MPs that if they behave in a way that meets with dissaproval of the grassroots, then there will be a price to pay.

Oberon, totally agree about where the credit should go. I was making the point that although only 18 voted for it, I thought the fact that so many seemed to be missing and only one or two bothered going through the nay lobby was even more damning for the party on this issue.

Well after spending the last couple of days disagreeing with you two it's nice to be in agreement with you two. Those that could be bothered to turn up for the debate are just as culpable as those voting against. It's been a terrible week for our party I hope one not repeated anytime soon.
I listened to Any Questions /Any Answers today. People were spitting tacks about this and the behaviour of both frontbenches was condemned. The only party to emerge with credit were the Lib Dems. Ugh! That sticks in my throat!

If McLean's concern and those of the other 17 shameless Conservative MPs was about constituents letters and issues and whether these were sufficiently protected why wasn't it a small amendment to FOI specifing just that rather than providing a wider exemption.

As it is, it appears it is a means to hide from their constituents anything that could embarass MPs - protecting themselves under cover of protecting us.

It's a pity McLean could not make a defence of his position on CH. If he does not defend his position then we can only judge his bill by what we are told, and it does not sound good.

I am truly shocked and disspointed by this. After just reading through the posts, I cannot remember another time when there was such agreement between all the posters here. Can we all be wrong?

It is shameful. Because it was a Tory MP who put it up, we will get the blame, irrespective of what other MPs voted for it.

Cameron should have stamped his authority here. I am at a loss to understand this behaviour by some of our MPs for whom i previously had respect. A bad bad day for our party.

This bill and the failure of most MPs to object to it perfectly demonstrates how out of touch and navel gazing our over remunerated and under-employed MPs are. The electorate as a group remind me of a much abused spouse. If only the electorate had the guts not to give the current political class a second chance at election time but instead deserted them lock stock and barrel.

Bill, I agree completely. This is why I believe that voting should be compulsory in the UK, BUT with 'none of the above' option.
It will never happen. Our self-serving politicians (of ALL parties) would never take the risk that 'NOTA' would have the largest number of votes, probably by a long way.

What is the significance of David Cameron's failure to take a stand on this issue?

Is he tolerant of corruption?

Does he not know right from wrong?



Bishop Hill: I think he does need to say something. But Labour were the real power behind this bill. Most PMB's never move anywhere... this one flew through, and I think that is more disturbing that the bill itself: which I think is awful. There.

Jon: Winston Churchill once said "You only have to speak to the average voter for one minute to realise that a democracy is a terrible system: But have you seen the other one?" By those words making people criminals for not voting is vergng on the other one... Australia are a SPECIAL case!!!

Malcolm: We agree, on most things, and I am interested in your views on all thing's, if grammars turn out to be the exception, then I'll be happy.

Scotty: We are in very good agreement, as usual. Long may it continue!

Derek: I think you have hit the nail on the head. He cannot defend his position to anyone but self interested MP's in the house desperate to rush into the Aye's. This whole vote stinks.

Tim/Sam: Most of my requests are greeted in silence these days, but its easy for me I suppose, but can we get anyone from the Upper House to comment?

Oberon: Well I suppose that you have a point. I don't want to criminalise people without good reason. How about not forcing people to vote and still having a 'none of the above' option on the ballot paper?

"But Labour were the real power behind this bill. Most PMB's never move anywhere... this one flew through, and I think that is more disturbing that the bill itself: which I think is awful"
That was something I noticed as well and add this point raised by Iain Dale in his article I posted a link to earlier "If I tell you that the Commission is chaired by the Speaker, Michael Martin, it maybe tells you all you need to know.

Martin, widely acknowledged as one of the worst Speakers ever, is being fingered as the person responsible for today's disgraceful vote. The Private Member's Bill by Tory MP David Maclean was certainly given surprising support by the two deputy Speakers who chaired today's debate, Sylvia Heal and Sir Michael Lord. They twice allowed "closure" votes which prevented opponents of the Bill from trying to talk it out. I am told you have to go back to the early 1980s to find the last time two closure votes were allowed on a Friday in the Commons."
Something just does not feel right about this?

Wouldn't try to make political capital out of this chaps if I were you. A grand total of 3 Conservative MPs voted against this bill. 3!
A shocking and disgraceful performance from our MPs

Malcolm, I think that Labour are the ones that will make capital out of this, we seem to have dug ourselves into a hole so deserve everything we get. Labour just helped us do it.

Malcolm, who were the three? They deserve our respect and to be congratulated for their stand.

James Clappison, John Redwood and Richard Shepherd. Shepherd made a magnificent speech too.

I see the papers are laying into McLean this morning, quad bikes on expenses to 'visit his constituents', extra-marital affairs galore. I wonder what his association are thinking? Is there anyone looking at this thread who can comment?

I'm appalled that that a Tory would come up with this idea!!

The line that both the Labour and Conservative 'Leaders' are touting that they are neutral is cowardice of the highest order.

Penrith & The Border voters deserve better than David Maclean, I’m lost for words? 18 Tories for the bill, what a disgrace! Have been a Tory all my life, but my patience is at an end with Mr. Cameron and his party.

Why are you all so appalled? The entire FoI act was only brought in by Labour - why do we need to spy on our MPs now more than 15 years ago?

It's all about stories for journalists, not the public interest.

If DC really wants to bring the Party to a modern and respected position he should leave grammar schools alone and abolish those who voted for this bill.

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