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From the Telegraph news item:

"Directly elected police commissioners should replace police authorities."

I doubt that this proposal would be the key reform. Direct election of an individual would only work well if the voters could form a sensible judgement about who was the best candidate, and that would depend on the size of the constituency. How could voters across 3 counties choose between candidates for the commissioner to oversee Thames Valley Police force? They would all be unknown quantities.

And if a directly elected commissioner turned out to a dud (or even worse, went completely off the rails) how could he be removed?

"The role of the Home Secretary over local policing would be substantially reduced and re-focused on national policing and security."

Money is the key: there can only be local control over policing if it is funded
by taxes raised locally rather than by grants from central government.

"There would be a direct and transparent funding arrangement between voters
and elected commissioners so that the public can judge the effectiveness of
the policing they pay for."

Which means that funds provided by the taxpayers in a town for policing that town must be kept in a separate police budget for that town, not put into a regional or sub-regional pot from which the town is then given some notional allocation.

It comes down to reversing not only what this government has done, but preceding governments over a century and half, dissolving forces such as
Thames Valley and the new euro-regional forces, returning local policing
to locally funded town and county forces.

What's the number of officers per 100,000 population in London?

More police officers will mean more spending but will George Osborne give Nick Herbert any extra cash?

Nick Herbert was very good on the Today programme this morning: far better briefed than the BBC. Stourton, the presenter, kept spluttering that these ideas weren't policy yet. That's right, was the response, it's a consultation paper so we're consulting before we finalise the policy. Seems sensible (like the ideas being floated) but Stourton seemed to have trouble with the concept of actually consulting people over a consultation paper. That's what 10yrs of Blairism does for you.

It is astonishing that Australia appears to be the crime capital of the world. Can this really be right? It feels about 100 times safer than the UK.

I agree William but the consultation on whether we should have a national serious crime police force or just more coordination was a bit lame. We need a bit more taking the lead and a bit less consultation.

Good stuff, Cameron may be following the crowd on the NHS and Kyoto but he's taking on the establishment with police reform and the family.

I welcome most of these proposals. I have just one reservation and this is the Sandhurst style staff college.I just do not think this will be acceptable to rank and file Police Officers and will cause tremendous resentment and a drop in morale.

New York also benefited from the zero-tolerance policies of the Mayor, Guiliani. He assisted the police by getting tough on small, everyday behaviours that showed disrespect for the environment and others; broken windows in buildings, aggressive begging, people who held up traffic through "jaywalking" were given tickets.

If more visible police were able to hand out fines to litter louts and teens who cause trouble, and landlords/owners who did not clear up eyesores were pursue, civic pride and its twin, law and order, would return to the cities.

Local mayors and councils must assist the new police structure with a will to fight petty crime and disorder.

Arthur Burgess, why?

Arthur Burgess:I have just one reservation and this is the Sandhurst style staff college.I just do not think this will be acceptable to rank and file Police Officers and will cause tremendous resentment and a drop in morale.

What is the effect of the real Sandhurst on the real army?

I remember when I first read this in the Direct Democracy handbook, I thought this idea is a real radical winner. When you talk to people, there is a real feeling the police priorities don't reflect their own. To empower people with an accountable police chief might get people interested in voting again.

Umbrella man at 09:58. Structural reform won't necessarily mean huge amounts of extra spending. As PC "David Copperfield" has said:
'My belief is that greater numbers of police are not the answer to rising crime. I think enough of your money is spent on the police, it just gets wasted. There are enough policemen, it's just that they are all sat behind desks.'

Arthur Burgess:"I have just one reservation and this is the Sandhurst style staff college.I just do not think this will be acceptable to rank and file Police Officers and will cause tremendous resentment and a drop in morale."

William Norton:"What is the effect of the real Sandhurst on the real army?"

What is the effect of the existing Police Staff College at Bramshill?

Nice idea, get the wooden tops back out on the streets where they belong to serve as a visible deterrent.
But, you wil need to break the culture of PC that infests our police forces and limits their effectiveness. Bill Bratton? was effective in NY, because the mayor backed his plan and the mayor led the zero tolerance policy that the police enforced. Can anyone see such a policy getting promulgated in the UK, the lefties, civil libertarians and assorted riff-raff would be kicking up a fuss, probably led by Red Ken, who would then castigate the Met for failing to perform and stop crime.
Getting something like this of the ground will require direction and application of Thatcherite proportions.

As an anoraky aside, I finished reading the memoirs of Major General Le Marchant a couple of weeks ago, the man who founded the Royal Military Academy (Sandhurst).

He worked tirelessly to regulate the British Army at the end of the 18th Century, taking the initiative, for example, to design a highly superior new cavalry sword and write a complex book of techniques to accompany it. He saw the need for much greater professionalism and national training after seeing how good the Austrian cavalry were at Flanders.

The national officers' academy was entirely his creation, even down to the original buildings' design. Interestingly, the only part of his plans that wasn't implemented was including selected soldiers' sons in the leadership training.

This was rejected because of what Arthur Burgess has just said about this police academy (best not to call it that, reminds me of the comedy series!):

"I just do not think this will be acceptable to rank and file Police Officers and will cause tremendous resentment and a drop in morale".

The reason being that soldiers wouldn't accept authority from "jumped up" officers and desert, as they had done in France.

It's difficult to draw any parallels with this - the 21st century British police are centralised quite enough - so I think I've just waffled to myself!

Three easy to implement reforms:

1. After the prisoner has been booked in all further processes (Fingerprinting, DNA and Photograph) to be done by civilian staff.

2. Statements to be taken by civilian/retired police officers using laptops.

3. Intoduce single clicking for all computer forms (ie: basic details once keyed in are automatically reproduced on all forms without the need to fill in same dtails again).

The police have been described as a corporal's mess run riot. It's high time they had an equivalent of Sandhurst. And a bit of public school intake wouldn't do any harm either. Trouble is that if Margaret Thatcher didn't dare take on the police and sort them out properly, will Cameron have the guts to do it?

One other thing. When I asked a senior copper recently why they didn't have an equivalent to Sandhurst, he replied, "Our officer intake is our graduate intake." i.e. you need a degree in order to be capable of becoming a top policeman. What nonsense! And doesn't this sum up the current state of Plod?

One other thing. When I asked a senior copper recently why they didn't have an equivalent to Sandhurst, he replied, "Our officer intake is our graduate intake." i.e. you need a degree in order to be capable of becoming a top policeman. What nonsense! And doesn't this sum up the current state of Plod?

dog biter. Did you ask your senior copper what the graduates graduated in? Media Studies? Archeology? English Lit?

A good start. If we want more police on the street without a huge rise in costs we'll have to cut out a lot of administration that has been imposed on the police in the last 20 years or so. Much of this was no doubt well intentioned to prevent abuses but it has had a big effect on police efficiency and effectiveness.

Priorities will have to be reset, so that we don't get regular repeats of the recent story about two policemen being sent round to interview a 10 year old boy who used the word "gay" in an email, but instead see them used on more serious threats like drug dealing mugging etc. I get the impression that some police like the new PC emphasis, as it diverts them from having to deal with dangerous criminals.

Whenever silly stories like this arise, the police say "some one complained so we have to act". We've got to get back to the old days when the police had the right to use discretion and a sense of proportion.

Media Studies? Archeology? English Lit?

No, no, no. It would have to be some sort of counselling course....

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