Immigration could cost Labour election (says Immigration Minister)

The Immigration Minister Liam Byrne concedes today that Labour's failure to control immigration has created greater inequality and child poverty.  He warns that  failure to control immigration could cost his party the next General Election.  You could add higher taxes, higher crime, lost pension savings and the rising cost of living to the list of factors likely to do that.  The Times has the story about Liam Byrne's remarks.

Comments

[ONG]

Do the figures quoted above include immigrants from the EU?

[Curly]

It's refreshing to see a mainstream politician having the courage to even talk about the problem, unfortunately as a Labour minister he hasn't grasped the reason why net immigration is so high, it's caused, partially, by the folly of our inflexible labour market with millions of people "locked in" to the Working Tax Credit system.

[John Moss]

Being somethng of a free market radical, I would not - in an ideal world - have any problem with uncontrolled immigration as the free movement of people is just as beneficial as the free movement of goods, services and finance.

However, this is totally incompatible with the socialist structures of health, education and other welfare systems which have become entrenched in the UK and western Europe over the past 60 years. As such, strict controls on immigration are essential until such time as we move to a more liberal approach to these issues.

It is true to say that the concerns of ordinary people tend to be centred around the problems which immigration causes in health, housing and education - something any one of the four putataive PPCs for Dagenham & Rainham will no doubt be aware of - rather than being concerned about immigration per se. Everybody will tell you that their immigrant friends are hard working and pay their taxes just like the rest of us, it is just the "others" who spoil it.

On principle, if we are to address the root cause of the problem, rather than merely seek to salve some of the more painful symptoms, we should sort out the welfare state and then immigration would cease to be an issue.

[Martin Wright]

Immigration could also cost the conservatives outright election victory, if we don't have a policy that is both firm but fair. The electorate also needs to believe that we will implement our policy. The general move to a more liberal stance on social issues will tend to weaken our credibility on this issue. Moreover Labour's proposed move (belatedly)to a more sensible points-based system will take away some of our edge, though Labour can still be castigated on their previous record both on uncontrolled and indiscriminate immigration and their failere to remove failed asylum seekers, who ipso facto were just disguised immigrants.

[Praguetory]

Does anyone have ideas what the official Tory line is now (not intended to be sarcastic)? My understanding is that it is shadow immigration minister Damian Green's role to shut up about these issues far as possible (intended to be sarcastic).

[999]

"It's refreshing to see a mainstream politician having the courage to even talk about the problem"
Do you fall for this spin? Nu-Lab knew precisely what they were doing over these past years and a local election is coming up which is why they are talking about it now. They are trying convince the voters they will actually be doing something this time to correct this policy 'mistake'. Beneficial crisis anyone?

[George Hinton]

Liam trying to get some retaliation in first, and neuter the guns of BNP/NF.
I'm surprised he's not at the despatch box making his apologies, seems to be all the rage now from NuLab. Clearly a focus group brain-storming session came up with that wheeze.
Perhaps Liam Byrne would like to grant every failed asylum seeker £10,000 bounty to buzz off as part of a general amnesty.

[Martin Wright]

The net immigration figures of course mask the scale of the challenge. The majority of those leaving the UK will be English speakers, many of them well educated or skilled. A much higher proportion of the incomers will come from different cultures and will need expenditure to help them integrate. On average the levels of eduction and skils will be lower.

[Richard]

Of course the big question everyone avoids is how do we get rid of the illegals who are already here. An amnesty would be electoral suicide (as well as encouraging further illegal immigration) so what's the answer?

[Mark Wadsworth]

I second just about every comment above. If I had to knock up an immigration policy in a hurry I'd just cut and paste whatever it is that the Australians are doing. This must be one of the reasons why Howard keeps getting re-elected.

[mark]

"Of course the big question everyone avoids is how do we get rid of the illegals who are already here. An amnesty would be electoral suicide (as well as encouraging further illegal immigration) so what's the answer?"

You only had to watch last evenings Tory PP broadcast showing a working man standing by his van with DC begging him not to vote BNP, the man told DC that none of the main parties even came near a solution. Why not just adopt the same line as Michael Howard did at the last election, 90% of the population are now more than willig to embrace those policies and also to stop unlimited access to the UK from the EU.

[simon]

The public support stopping immigration/asylum, the main parties will NEVER stop this because of 'community relations'. By that i mean the 'ethnic minorities'. If immigration is stopped the message is ' you are not wanted by the majority'. Labour went for 'mass immigration' under the con of 'it's good for the economy' to SHORE up the minority population so that talk of 'mass removals' etc, becomes nigh impossible. If a party is serious about stopping mass immigration and the mass removal of illegals had better put it forward in a national referendum to head off the onslaught of the PC media.

[TomTom]

Jack Stone is AWOL....this is his cue usually

[Martin Wright]

Just heard the World at One on which, mirable dictu, Damien Green said we need not only a points system but an overall annual limit on numbers!

Collapse of stout party

[Martin Wright]

Sorry that should be mirabile dictu (I think).

We also ought to look at the issue from the other end of the see saw. The vast majority of immigration into the developed world is economically driven. We should be doing far more to reduce the incentive for emigration from the third world by helping them to develop their economies, cutting down unfair trade practices etc.

[realcon]

The media now regard people settling here from the rests of the EU as uncontroversial (in fact not as 'immigration'). Of course the Conservative Party can have nothing to say on this except go along with it - as with nearly everything else.

[realcon]

Most of the media now regard people settling here from the rest of the EU as uncontroversial (in fact not as 'immigration'). Of course the Conservative Party can have nothing to say on this except go along with it - as with nearly everything else while we remain 'in Europe'.

[Martin Wright]

Heard the end of a discussion on PM. Philip Legrain was peddling the usual optimistic no borders line. Needless to say, when his interlocutor tried to balance the picture, Legrain accused him of believing that immigrants eat babies. The other guy sounded rather elderly and taken aback at such rudeness. Needless to say the BBC didn't intervene to see fair play. Fortunately most listeners will realise that Legrain is losing the argument, if he has to resort to smears and downright rudeness.

[Rachel Joyce]

Much as I think we need to emulate Australia, as Mark Wadsworth suggests, we have the additional issue of the EU and free movement of people within- however, very sensible for other nationals.
I also agree with John Moss's point about the effect on public services (and also now jobs - hence rise in youth unemployment) being the main source of grievance. A policy/ policies that deal with this effect of immigration are needed, in particular to address the unequal balance of EU immigration (they come here, but we don't go there so much - we tend to go to English speaking countries (all the junior doctors are about to disappear to US/ Oz/ NS because of recruitment disaster)). Again, however, this leads into complex issues with the EU which opens another can of worms...

[TomTom]

Philip Legrain was peddling the usual optimistic no borders line.

http://www.philippelegrain.com/legrain/about.html

[Shaun]

Doesn't this, partially, have something to do with declining emigration figures too? Until the mid-80s to early-90s (from memory) Britain was a country with a net emigration figure. That's been falling for around 20 years now.

Although personally I have no issue with EU free migration. I think it unfortunate we imposed restrictions on Romanians and Bulgarians and, generally, think the EU should aspire to have as open borders as possible for goods, services, capital and labour. Rather like a less protectionist version of the Dominions in the 1950s and 40s.

Shaun

[TomTom]

partially, have something to do with declining emigration figures too?

NO. Because Emigration is INcreasing not Decreasing