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Ted, I'd look forward to the death of a tyrant or terrorist. I can't say I'd look forward to someone's death merely because they hold "Powellite" views on immigration.

That said, Seamus condemns himself far more eloguently than any of the rest of us could condemn him.

"I may not particularly care for David Cameron but he is trying to make his party electable."

And actually succeeding in doing the opposite. You an continue to live in this cloud cuckoo land that sees almost flatlining against one of the most unpopular governments in history as some sort of achievement but the bottom line is that there are 5 million voters out there who supported the Toris in 1992 and who now will not vote for them. All the evidence says that is because the party has become effectively a Blairite clone and people simply wil not accept that.

Seamus, you light on one "example" of the views of an older person and a small group that person claims to know and call that "evidence"? It's a bit like someone saying that they know three stupid Irishmen and therefore all the Irish are stupid. No doubt you would be up in arms about that as "racist".....but crude ageist caricature on the basis of flimsy anecdote, that's just fine.

In the article I did for CH last year I asked "Is Cameron Conservatism cultural Marxist Conservatism?"

The question is still open. I have to say that this is not a good sign. There may be sound media-management reasons for the leadership reaction, but the decision indicates either a lack of moral integrity or a genuine commitment to neo-Marxist values among the leadership, neither of which is a good thing IMO.

I'm glad to see tolerance and acceptance of differing views - and reading them COMPLETELY - exist .. in the UK if not here.

Michael Dismissed me cos I said "Forget Free speech" in one paragraph... not noting I then addressed it again at the end ..

As for Richard.

You are missing epoint. Who drove those 5 million voters away from the Conservatives? David Cameron? Of course not.

It was the toxic combination of post Mrs T : and three failed leaders following policies designed to appeal to the Conservatives - the Conservative Party. Full stop. Appeal to others? NOpe.. worry about UKIP ? Yes Worry about the LibDems who were winning Tory seats? err no

IF you sincerely believe it's all David Canmeron's fault that 5 million former Cpnservative voters don't vote Conservative, I suggest you get out and ask why.

Let me suggest several reasons..
1. The Conservatives were seen as past it with failed policies. Since there was no change after Mrs T left, I think that's valid.
2. The Conservatives were seen as out of touch and pandering to their core vote:

3. The nasty party. Say no more.
4. No real attempt to appeal to areas where their votes were low: minorities, the Scots, The Welsh, The inner cities
: true .. look at the number of MPS in or from those areas.
5. An Opposition which was seen as ineffective - true. See Iraq. See Identity cards. etc.

David Cameron has to address all those issues to win back floating voters.. If you think Mercer sounding off like the last 40 years have not happened will help, I suggest you ask Lord Taylor.

Simon, there is certainly a vociferous clique within the Modernisers who are cultural Marxists. Like all good Marxists, they are narrowly doctrinaire, strident and utterly intolerant of dissent. Smearing and caricaturing their critics, or just those who hold different views, is standard stuff. What is interesting is that, not for the first time, the Tories may have failed to spot a change in the public mood. Certainly, even on the BBC website, there seem to be many people (i) who see the Patrick Mercer episode as a panicky overreaction by David Cameron; and (ii) object to the creeping censorship imposed by the politically correct under the guise of "not giving offence".


Enough said...

3. The nasty party. Say no more.

This is baby-talk. All political parties are conspiracies against the public, that is why they exist.

Labour is mean-spirited, vindictive, self-serving, fraudulent, and corrupt both morally and financially....but they are utterly ruthless in eliminating opposition. This is the most Communist-oriented govt in methodology this country has ever seen.........but we use words like "nasty" and "nice"


Simon, I'm a classic floating voter. I switched from Labour to the Conservatives because Labour is stamping all over our freedoms. I want a government that rules with a lighter hand and doesn't act like a cross between Stalin and the nanny from hell. I'd hoped that the reformed Conservatives had reformed in the direction of being a bit more libertarian, not aping Labour's brand of authoritarianism. I very much doubt that I'm alone in this.


so if those voters were all turned off by the right wing stance then why are thye not floding back now that 'nice' Mr Cameron is in charge. Could it be because your analysis is completely wrong? The leaders from Major through to Cameron have ll thought they could lead the Tries to victory by playing lip service to right wing ideals whilst pandering to the centre left. None of them have embraced a proper set of small state low tax policies and all have been seen as only saying what they mistakenly thought the public wanted to hear.

The public are not stupid. Those 5 million voters wil never come back as long as they know that the Tory leadership are just pandering to the left. More to the point, tens of thousands of core Tory voters now feel the party is no longer their natural home and so are content to see Cameron fail in the hope that his succesor will be a man or woman of courage and conviction. Two traits whch in no way can be ascribed to Cameron.

The Tories have already lost the next election, at least in any meaningful sense of hving a working majority. I will be amazed if they even have the most seats. All we can do now is look beyond that election and hoe the membership and the MPs have the sense to pick a leader who stands for something other than political correctness and enegy saving lightbulbs.

And you're not prejudiced Seamus?

I think this thread has passed its useful life.

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