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This is a piss take obviously.....

'Borderline antisemitism' by Ken Livingstone? I do not think there is anything borderline about it as you can see here.

We thought Israel had a right to respond vigorously to the rocket attacks, .... But that does not mean you should not also be able to say that elements were disproportionate

Blowing off one of someone's legs is fine, but two is a war crime?

Who mentioned war crimes?

The use of cluster bombs is a good example of disproportionate; there was no need for them.

Shame the whole interview was not reproduced but from what I read here I cannot disagree with anything Cameron says.
No idea what point your trying to make 'Bomber Harris'.

Can anyone seriously argue with David Cameron's assertion?

"what we need is a 2-state solution: a secure Israel, secure in its borders, not at threat from terrorists or its neighbours, and a state of Palestine based on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip".

Had Bush and Blair continued to seek that solution BEFORE attacking Iraq, the world might now be in a much happier state AND Blair might be leaving government with a legacy to be proud of.

I doubt it. Fixing the I/P issue will make that area of the middle east a relatively happier place, but all the other groups currently using it as an excuse would soon find something else.


"I doubt it. Fixing the I/P issue will make that area of the middle east a relatively happier place, but all the other groups currently using it as an excuse would soon find something else"

They'd certainly try, but the key thing about the I/P conflict is that it has a huge emotional resonance that no other trans-Arabian issue can compare to. Without the ability to whip up anti-Israeli feeling at politically convenient times, the various regional leaders will have lost a significant tool of dictatorship.


Does he have to follow the left in playing the race-card just to bash someone who has played the race card all his life to win the ethnic vote.

“My values are Jewish values” – that is a very bold statement; it could be taken in any context. So Cameron is keen on the extravagant accumulation of wealth? underhanded deeds? I quote Ellen Schiff :-

Schiff, Ellen 1932-
Sinners, Scandals, Scoundrels, and Scamps on the American Jewish Stage
American Jewish History
“Culpable Jews are infinitely versatile; they can play a number of roles, three of which are the focus here. Early on, the Jew is envisioned as Other, the locus of the impure thoughts, mischief, and underhanded deeds that everybody is capable of, but few find the opportunity or audacity to indulge. Subsequently, the Jewish scoundrel comes to betoken some problematic activity or new development in mores that threaten the status quo. Moneylending comes immediately to mind, as it will, for Jews and money comprise an imperishable icon. But the extravagant accumulation of wealth and questionable business practices are not the only troublesome social issues hung around Jewish necks.”

This is a light hearted post - do not read any more into it than that.

Except of course Fred Baker you have a history on this blog of virulently anti-Semitic posts so I rather doubt the above post which is not even slightly amusing is meant in a lighthearted way at all. Generally I don't think posters should be banned for offensive views but I do believe an exception should be made in your case.

"of virulently anti-Semitic posts"
Absolute Rubbish

Had Bush and Blair continued to seek that solution BEFORE attacking Iraq, the world might now be in a much happier state

Hardly. Saddam and the Saudis were funding suicide bombers families. It takes one moron with an explosive belt to blow away these "talks". The gangs in Gaza have lived on scrapping over EU and US welfare funds for years - it is the best-funded welfare program on earth and Fatah and Hamas both fight to get on the gravy train - it is like a CAP program with everyone dipping into the trough

There is no way any solution will occur in the area. Both Palestinians and Iranians elected hardline extremists to purge them of corruption, and both got corrupt hardline extremists.

The situation in Zimbabwe is a good indication of what the situation in Palestinian polities resembles

I support freedom of speech, but Fred Baker's comments are unbelievable. To then say they are "light-hearted"(!!).
Judiasm brought the 10 commandments to the world, and that is where Jewish values lie. Jews are also probably the most tolerant of all religions - believing that there are many paths to God (not just through the Jewish Law), which is why Jews are not evangelists.
Hitler was well-known to hate the Jews in particular for the 10 commandments.
Well done David Cameron for signing up to Jewish values.

Whilst I respect your views, TomTom @ 06.59, I do think you are being unnecessarily pessimistic:

"There is no way any solution will occur in the area".

The Americans must have thought the same about Vietnam and the French about Algeria but there are many ways of settling conflicts - some peaceful, others not.

My basic point is that were the Palestinians to be given a state that is recognised by all, especially Israel, that would be a starting point for peace - not the end in itself - and to have achieved that would have been preferable to attacking Iraq.

Mr Cameron's comments will not be well received by the rabid Zionists that run Conservative Friends of Israel. They are similar to those of William Hague that were denounced by CFI spokesmen.

That, however, will not stop CFI from using David Cameron as a fundraiser. He is the guest of of honour at CFI's annual business lunch in June. Cameron will be "questioned" by Danny Finkelstein. The price is a mind-bloggling £400 - a snip for candidates seeking a freebie CFI lobbying junket to Israel.

Rachel Joyce and Malcolm

Does it not occur to you that I was promoting the Jewish Theatre, some people here are too thinned skinned.

No Fred Baker, it doesn't.You have, as I've mentioned before posted numerous times. The majority of those posts can only be described as anti Semitic.

Then why not give an example?

Opposing the illegal occupation of Arab lands by the Israelis is not anti-semitism. Many of those who oppose Israeli colonialism and racism are themselves Jews.

I wonder what lies behind Malcolm's agenda?

The Israelis Planned in advance, that if any of their soldiers were kidnapped by persons in Lebanon or palestine, they would go in and attack Thousands of Civillian Targets, in Palestine and Lebanon, Killing thousands of INNOCENT Babies, Children, Boys, Girls, Mums & Dads. This is Phsychopathic pre-meditated mass-murder.

Instead of sucking up to Israel, we should be issuing arrest warrants for war crimes, assasinations, murder, ethnic cleansing, destruction of people's homes.

It is beyond belief that a British MP states Israel has the" right to respond vigorously", when they know Israel was Killing Innocent People.

Talking of Rockets..

Who is firing them? Every time the Israelis have elections, a political scandal or visit by a prominent US Senator/ Politician, The number of rockets fired increase..
Perhaps the reason they nearly always miss.. is due to them not being fired by Palestinians.

ISRAEL Claimed.. Hezbolllah Fired 4,200 rockets during the war.

Southern Lebanon is a mere 20 miles across (Southampton to Portsmouth).
During the attack, the area was occupied by up to 30,000 Israeli Troops, Tanks, Artillery Batteries (Including Israeli Multple Rocket Launchers), Snipers, Special Forces; Patrolled by UAV and Recon aircraft, F15, F16 Jets and Satelites.

Look at the range of the rockets supposedly fired. They would have had to have been fired from close to the Israeli Border.. From Positions occupied by the Israelis.

Why did the Israelis Kill the UN Observers.
Perhaps they did not want to see WHO was launching katushas.

Why was Senator Kucinich denied access to cross from Lebanon to Israel to view damage in Israel. He then drove around, yet was still denied access to the affected ares in Israel.

The London "Liquid Bomber" Fasco was to get the Israel's carpet Bombing of Lebanon with Cluster Bombs off the front page.. (This was done after the ceasefire was announced).

It is Time fror our Government to wake up,

Lebanese and Palestinian Children should be allowed to play, go to school, and live without being Terrorized By Israeli Jets creating Sonic Booms, Shelling, Tanks, Bulldozers and Snipers.

The wall must fall!

Oh dear.

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