Mind the gap (the northern gap)

Peter Riddell spotlights more data from The Times' Populus survey this morning.  That data underlines the Tories' northern challenge.  Although 54% of voters in south eastern England agree that "the Conservative Party understands and speaks for people in my part of the country as much as any other part of Britain" the number falls to 37% for people in the north and just 29% in Scotland.  The numbers will underline the challenge facing William Hague as he chairs the party's new northern board.

Mr Riddell points out that the Conservatives can still deprive Labour of their parliamentary majority by winning seats outside of the north.  He highlights three crucial battlegrounds:

1. Approximately 11 seats along the M4 corridor in and around Bristol, Gloucester and Swindon;
2. Approximately 15 seats in the M25 corridor around London; and
3. An unspecified number of seats in the M1 corridor from Milton Keynes up to Warwick.

For victory, however, the Tories need to advance in the north and Peter Riddell highlights the M6 corridor in Lancashire.

In terms of addressing the Conservative Party's northern and Scottish challenge ConservativeHome recommends three changes:

1. A functionally separate Scottish party that has a similar relationship to the London CCHQ as Bavaria's CSU has to Berlin's CDU.  It is vital that Scottish voters see their party as genuinely committed to Scotland and not importing a London-based agenda.
2. Genuinely local candidates in most northern target seats.  One of the great failures  of the A-list was its focus on representation of women and ethnic minorities but not on regional background.
3. Continuation of 'the Year of the Striver agenda' so that the concerns of Morrison Voter - value for money and personal security - are as much part of the Tory mission as the concerns of Waitrose Voter - environment and social justice.

Comments

[fromthenorth]

a "northern campaign" will go nowhere. the only solution is hyper-local with hyper-local people.

the north east referendum demonstrated (a) the party has largely disappeared in the north east, (b) to the extent it has not it is hated, (c) it is possible to win things there but only by dropping the tory brand and building new networks.

the conservative party does not believe in localism - apart from the odd speech because it is trendy. there is no way it is suddenly going to realise how to rebuild its networks because the MPs have no idea - they think politics consists solely of meetings in london.

finally, the idea that hague is "the right man" because "he is northern" is laughable. in the north east, everybody thinks he is a tosser with a weird voice. we want our own tossers with our own weird voices.

[Annabel Herriott]

Oh come on! William Hague went to a rough Comprehensive school in Rotheram, South Yorks. He was brought up, and comes from round there. The accent is modified South yorks. Its no better than a geordie voice you can cut with a butter knife, and no worse either. The north east is only a quick belt up the A1 M for chrissake! I do it every month from West yorks to see my old RVI pals in Newcastle.

[Robert McIlveen]

I wouldn't say we are hated in the north - when I'm out campaigning in Sheffield the only people who shout tend to be UKIPpers who think we've gone soft (and there aren't many). The challenge is to be relevant, having been wiped off many local councils and pushed into third in others.

We're in for a long hard slog methinks.

[ToMTom]

Oh come on! William Hague went to a rough Comprehensive school in Rotheram,

Wath-upon-Dearne Grammar School hardly produced a rough Comprehensive School it wasn't downmarket enough for that..

It is simply a fact that Wm Hague goes down like a lead-balloon. He is as the first poster stated despised - but try it out...there is always a good excuse then to blame him for screwing up not just the 2001 GE but the next one too when Conservatives fail to gain

[Michael McGowan]

Annabel, he has a point. Hague may be from a Yorkshire state school but he has lived away from the north for many years and has become part of the inward-looking Westminster Establishment via Oxford and MacKinsey. He was parachuted into a very well-heeled North Yorkshire constituency which is hardly typical. I would have exactly the same problem passing myself off as a north midlander: I left grammar school 25 years ago and since then have passed via Oxford to the City.

Tim's point about Morrisons voter versus Waitrose voter is well made. Only the well-to-do can afford to pay the high prices at Waitrose and to shoulder the extra costs which the neo-Calvinist green movement wants to load onto everybody.

[TomTom]

the concerns of Morrison Voter - value for money and personal security

What's this piece of Ad-speak ? Morrisons just happens to be the biggest and best supermarket and has stock levels which put Tesco to shame. In fact Tesco has such poor availability one might think it is headed for Casrey Street - same for M&S btw.

Waitrose is dire - it charges £2 more than Tesco for the same product.

Why voting is compared to supermarkets i don't know, but for some reason all our politicians worked in Advertsing and PR and think people are obsessed with supermarkets in a way that is religious.

It is bizarre

[fromthenorth]

annabel

youve misunderstood a short comment on multiple levels.

i am not claiming any accent is "better" or "worse". we arent on a playground.

my point is hague's accent sounds weird and alien - as much in the north east as in the south east. the idea that because he went to a comp in yorkshire and "everybody up there is northern" makes as much sense as "theyre all posh southerners". ie. none. people want their own representatives whether in afghanistan, london, the north east.

question: name a central conservative party success story in rebuilding a collapsed area of tory support such that it is now dominant? answer: zero/near-zero.

you are operating in a closed feedback loop. the MPs in london have no idea how to help build networks bottom-up. if they did the party would not have been the disaster zone of the last 15 years. this is not going to change by definition until the current senior MPs pass on.

further, they do not even understand these concepts, which is admittedly ironic given you are supposedly - but only supposedly of course - the party of hayek.

although cameron is not the farce of previous leaderships, there is nothing to suggest he understands - or his senior officials understand - either the scale of the problem or the hayekian solution.

he will either be smashed by brown or if labour implode cameron will disentegrate as per john major within 18 months.

the only hope is radical decentralisation but this is anathema to MPs. they didnt go into politics to give away power. therefore your closed feedback loop will persist.

[Andrew Woodman]

Although I very much welcome the push in the North, I do have concerns about the way we're doing it. The posters who say William Hague is seen as a Southern Sell Out do have a point. I wonder if we would be better recruiting some of the proven Northern campaigners who still live there to lead a revival. People like Andrew Percy for instance. Winning a council seat in Hull takes some doing.

[Gospel of Enoch]

As the stunningly successful (NOT) implementor of Camerloons election pledge to withdraw from the EPP (see how the land lies in 2009), the betting is now as to whether a Tory revival in the north will take even longer under his responsibility...

[Inamicus]

well after watching Little Alan Duncan (shadow minister for Tyneside) speak yesterday, there's still a long way for you lot to go.... Bringing back Michael Bates as vice chair is also unlikely to improve matters

[fromthenorth]

making a gay midget "shadow minister for tyneside" is a pretty accurate reflection of the conservative party's political acumen viz "the north".

[matt wright]

There is much work to do in the "North" (whatever that means and this language is half the problem) but some of the comments are overly negative. I do not beleive there is an insurmountable intrinsic dislike fo something perceived as a Souh-East DC based ethos. The problem in the "North" is mixed but essentially one of people losing the habit of voting Conservative in some areas. The only way back from that is via councils and local relevant campaigning. Often just finding reasonable council candidates and contesting seats is the main battle. I also have to say that comments about parliamentary candidates needing to be from the North is a fair one. I think we have not understood that it is far better to get a reasonable local candidate in very early than wasting time trying to find ultimate candidate material who perhaps don't come from the North. In that sense there is some different ethos going on and perhaps a regional system would be better. Perhaps also target less attractive marginals first with a view to getting a hard working local candidate in years before an election. I think hard working is often far more important than ultra bright, if you know what I mean,

Matt

[fromthenorth]

Q: who has won a serious electoral battle in the north east from The Right?
A: the north east says no campaign in the referendum on regional assemblies.
Q: how did they do it?
A: by recasting the arguments and language of the debate in a manner totally incomprehensible to (a) london tories and (b) national media.
Q: who did this?
A: james frayne and handful of locals
Q: how many times has cameron's team asked his advice on what to do?
My Prediction: ZERO (and now it's too late since he's apparently quit politics)

you are being conned to think you are reviving but the fundamental issues of incompetent / arrogant MPs remain.

[anon]

"Q: who has won a serious electoral battle in the north east from The Right?
A: the north east says no campaign in the referendum on regional assemblies.
Q: how did they do it?
A: by recasting the arguments and language of the debate in a manner totally incomprehensible to (a) london tories and (b) national media.
Q: who did this?"
The Real answer is Neil Herron and UKIP

[Richard]

"Only the well-to-do can afford to pay the high prices at Waitrose and to shoulder the extra costs which the neo-Calvinist green movement wants to load onto everybody."

Most of the Waitrose shoppers I know don't think very highly of the Green movement or social justice! They tend to be traditional Tory voters.

[sjm]

I am so sick of all the whingeing, carping, negativism, inverted snobbery from the 'oop North, hold my whippet cos my flat cap's coming off' brigade.

This person/that person is wrong because of: his/her accent, wrong school, wrong university, wrong career, wrong sexuality, wrong side of the Pennines, wrong socks .....

As Matt posted, get some decent local councillors in and build on them - it's how we reclaimed our Westminster seat from Labour in '05. Was it bloody hard work? YES. Was it worth it? YES.

[Michael McGowan]

Sorry, sjm, you really do sound like someone whose world view is bounded by the M25. In the Tory Party, especially at Westminster, there are many like you.

[anon]

Can someone please explain to me what the north is. As far as I can see it comprises of a number of different regions each facing their own unique challenges. It makes no sense to bundle these into a basket and call it the north. The challenges facing Manchester are different to those facing say Blackpool. Newcastle's problems are different to those in Leeds, and Sheffield faces challenges different to those in Bradford. As has previously been stated (by sjm) we need to build from the ground up and work with local politicians with the intention of promoting these as our future candidates for Parliament.

[Michael McGowan]

Yes of course you are right but one thing the north most certainly is not is Surrey or Notting Hill. Case in point: in my home town, the Tories were a strong force in local politics in the 1970's and while never likely to win a Westminster seat were the clear opposition to Labour in all elections. They now trail a poor third to Labour and the Lib Dems, and are probably losing votes as well to UKIP or the BNP. Their infrastructure is shot to pieces and their visibility very low. Either you want people's votes or you don't.

[Northern Anon]

I agree with sjm.

Anyone who is involved in the North, particularly the North West will know that, whilst things aren’t going as well as in the South and there are still tory free zones, we are making progress and all we really need is to do is improve our organization on the ground. All the National Party needs to do is ensure that there are well resourced local offices (best achieved through groupings) covered by professional staff that can start to rebuild our organization particularly at a local government level.

If you take a County like Cheshire, back in 1997 we only controlled one of the borough councils (Macclesfield) out of six in total and didn’t run the county council either. Since then we have won overall control of Cheshire County Council and Congleton Borough, we are the largest Party on and control Vale Royal Borough and Crewe and Nantwich Borough (both of which we look set to win overall control of in May) and we are the largest Party on Chester (again where it looks like we will take control in May). So out of the 7 local authorities we now have overall control of 3 and look set to win overall control of another 3 in May.

This strengthening of our organization will be crucial in directly helping us win constituencies like Chester and Weaver Vale, and supplying mutual aid to neighboring marginals like Wirral South, Wirral West and Warrington South. In other Counties like Lancashire and Cumbria the turn around has not been so dramatic, but we have made a huge amount of progress and with better resourced offices we could do even more.

And finally as for candidate selection, in the North West, so far we have selected 13 candidates for the most key marginal seats. Some were from the A-list and shock horror almost 50% are women (6 out of the 13), however I can’t think of a single mincing metrosexual among them. In fact almost all of them have lived in the North all their lives!!!

[Paul Kennedy]

"The problem in the "North" is mixed but essentially one of people losing the habit of voting Conservative in some areas. The only way back from that is via councils and local relevant campaigning." Matt 11:12

Very true, and in some Wards it is because we are simply unable to find a candidate to put up, to give what admittedly might be a small number of voters, somebody to vote for. In one constituency I know, there is only activity in three out of the twelve wards and come local elections the majority of the candidates are "paper" candidates and it is even a struggle to find those! Yet at a general election it does return a substantial Conservative vote and indeed if those fallow wards could be developed it would return a Conservative Member as the Labour majority is not that great and the incumbent is "low profile".

[Paul Kennedy]

"All the National Party needs to do is ensure that there are well resourced local offices (best achieved through groupings) covered by professional staff that can start to rebuild our organization particularly at a local government level."

Northern Anon 13:24

Excellent comment

[Will]

Nothern anon - Thanks for the lesson. I'm sure that will help us win back in West Yorkshire, as it is so similar to the natural Tory ground in Cheshire. You have had MP's all through the recent bad years. We didn't have any until we took Shipley last time.

sjm - We are putting in the work, but the national message is not coming across as well here. We have to deal with a growing BNP taking seats on our councils while DC ignores immigration, crime etc. We are fighting a different battle here, and Cameron won't win the war if he doesn't develop his message and policies to attract support here as well.

[Denis Cooper]

"Although 54% of voters in south eastern England agree that "the Conservative Party understands and speaks for people in my part of the country as much as any other part of Britain" the number falls to 37% for people in the north and just 29% in Scotland."

54 - 37 = 17, while 37 - 29 = 8. So in this respect the north of England is actually much more like Scotland than it is like the south of England.

[John Moss]

"Northern" candidates will, once elected, spent 200 days a year in Westminster.

By all means stress the benefit of local roots and connections, but the best "local" candidate is the one who is in the constituency, campaigning and in contact with local people. It is a tremendous advantage if you are NOT the MP, you can concentrate solely on being "local.

I'd rather thave an ex-pat "local" who has made their loot down south, return "home" and become a full time candidate, than a busy local Councillor or activist who does no more than they did before because they still have a career etc to look after.

[Curly]

Cameron need to understand that here, "Up North" we have never been too impressed with spin and presentation, we prefer straight talking and a choice of policies.

[Northern Anon]

“Nothern anon - Thanks for the lesson. I'm sure that will help us win back in West Yorkshire, as it is so similar to the natural Tory ground in Cheshire.” Will 14:00

If we can win in places like Crewe and Nantwich, you can certainly win in places like Colne Valley and Calder Valley. The demographics of some parts of West Yorkshire means they should be easily winnable, what lets you down is your poor organization and lack of professional support (which was the point I was making).

[Gareth]

There's certainly a problem (despite the amusing example given of our revival in Cheshire - a county more like Surrey than any other in the north). I wonder whether it's as simple as Cameron and those close to him being perceived as 'Notting Hill-ites' though?

We under-performed in the North in 2001 and 2005 under quite different leaders, whilst our parliamentary annihilation in northern cities began as early as 1987.

I think we need to be more honest with ourselves about a number of factors: the huge effect that the decline in manufacturing in the 1980's and 1990's had in the north; the undoubted transformation of many northern cities which, although not begun, has been more rapid, in the last 10 years; to give 2 examples that seem to me to be important.

[Will]

Northern Anon - and the point I was making that if you can still hold onto seats in the worst times like the Wintertons etc. It is easier to push out and work in harder areas.

We lost all the seats and only have one highly marginal one now. Starting again from scratch is so much harder, especially if the national message isn't coming across well.

Organisation will be important, but I hear that in the two seats you mention have gone from having their own agents at the last election to being placed in a new grouping together under a single agent with other constituencies included as well. So less professional support than in 2005 for them.

[sjm]

Will, we have have a major problem with BNP in our area too, London and South Essex know all about the problems of unfettered immigration, legal and illegal, and dare I say it, the loss of manufacturing.

[Gospel of Enoch]

"The challenges facing Manchester are different to those facing say Blackpool"

- Especially after last week :-)

[davisislazyandcrap]

Am I the only one who is fed up with "lazy Davis" working about 30 hours a week?

Last night's Newsnight had the Saudi school admitting to the psycho textbooks and not even withdrawing them.

WHERE'S THE USELESS LAZY DAVIS?

What the hell are the Tories doing?

Saudis fund schools like this and the Tories are silent? Is Davis resting at home as usual? If they wont do anything about this, why is anybody surprised the BNP and UKIP are on the up and up??

[Gunther]

I had always thought of UKIP as a respectable version of the BNP, but having come across an abusive UKIP supporter while leafleting today I know realise that there is very little difference between them.

[Gareth]

I think you're being slightly unfair Gunther. I think the main difference is that, whilst the average BNP activist is pretty open about his xenophobia and is generally working class, the average UKIP activist is usually slightly better educated, dresses up his (almost always 'his') xenophobia in more acceptable language and is middle class, often upper middle class. They share a hatred of the world as it is though and a nostalgia for how they imagine it once was.

[Richard]

"the undoubted transformation of many northern cities which, although not begun, has been more rapid, in the last 10 years; to give 2 examples that seem to me to be important. "

I'm curious - what sort of transformation?

[Angelo Basu]

I don't think that question would need to be asked by anyone who had visited Newcastle, Leeds or Manchester 10 years ago and then only again now.

Having lived most of my life in the SE and being a recent Northerner I'd say that the SE is if anything far more homogenous than "the North" but that there are many parts of the North which are much closer in character to the South than the flat cap caricatures would suggest.

[Denis Cooper]

There are areas of northern England which are more prosperous in real terms - ie taking into account the local cost of living - and offer a better environment than most areas in the south. At the other end of the spectrum, during the north east referendum I delivered leaflets to an estate on the outskirts of Newcastle which I was told was one of the most rundown, yet I've delivered to areas in Reading and Slough which are worse. I think the difference is that in the north (and the south west, and Wales, and Scotland) people are more likely to harbour resentment over the loss of traditional industries than they are in the south east, where of course it had less impact. That folk memory is still being kept alive.

[Londoner]

I thought "up north" was Barnet and Enfield...

Mr Riddell apparently has identified three corridors where we should win seats. Who else talks about every area they identify as a corridor? Having said that, we did well in 2005 in the Shepherds Bush to Merton corridor, I'll grant you. Silly me to have thought of it as south and west London.

Perhaps the problem is that up north they step straight into their front rooms and feel that corridors are only to be found in the Home Office as a convenient place to store unread files.

[Praguetory]

The North is not generic. Repeat, the north is not generic.

Our current Parliamentary party is not the main part of the solution. Hyperlocal initiatives empowering local MPS and PPCs in winnable seats is the way forward.

[Josh]

On the subject of the North, does anyone know about much Conservative Future Scotland in Aberdeen? I sent an e-mail to the contact on the website about getting involved a couple of days ago and have yet to get a response.

[TomTom]

If you take a County like Cheshire, back in 1997 we only controlled one of the borough councils (Macclesfield) out of six in total and didn’t run the county council either. Since then we have won overall control of Cheshire County Council and Congleton Borough, we are the largest Party on and control Vale Royal Borough and Crewe and Nantwich Borough

If you couldn't win Congleton, Macclesfield you should not be in business. Cheshire is so obviously home to Conservatives it is the dormitory for Manchester's professionals.

The question is real urban areas in West and South Yorkshire with high ethnic components, horrible crime problems, and large populations hence lots of seats. Tories don't have an MP in Harrogate, nor in York - and those are North Yorkshire..........so Leeds and Bradford and Sheffield and Halifax and Huddersfield and Wakefield and Doncaster and Rotherham are not going to be easy

[John Irvine]

Vast areas of the North have been turned into battlegrounds divided by an ethnic divide and people know that the Tories were just as much responsible for encouraging immigration as Labour.

I have relatives in Manchester. The Tory Party simply died on its knees there as all the clubs closed down and there were no more councillors. Same in Scotland of course.

Our party is now just a southern party and Im afraid thats the way it will stay all the time Cameroon and his unrepresentative Notting Hill set are in charge

[Richard Carey]

I'm afraid thats the way it will stay all the time Cameroon and his unrepresentative Notting Hill set are in charge

This is similar to the kind of line I've heard at meetings even in my own (strong Tory) area - change the leadership, change the parliamentary party, and everything will be fine.

I'm sorry, but this is a cop-out - not to mention an abrogation of the kind of personal responsibility my Conservative colleagues are supposed to believe in. There couldn't possibly be anything we could do, could there?

I'm pleased we're trying to rebuild our organisation across the (diverse) north of England, including establishing the new campaign centres. Far more important, however, will be the highly local and focused campaigning on the ground discussed by several contributors above. The need for that, by the way, is not limited to "the North" - there's plenty of scope for local parties to provide activists and candidates with training in modern campaigning techniques at a local level in other parts of the country too.

[Mark McCartney]

>>This is similar to the kind of line I've heard at meetings even in my own (strong Tory) area - change the leadership, change the parliamentary party, and everything will be fine.<<

That's good to know.

It seems the revolt against Cameron is breaking out everywhere

[Richard Carey]

It seems the revolt against Cameron is breaking out everywhere

That's not what I meant, Mark - it's a tendency I observed long before DC's leadership (I won't be making any friends by writing this, I'm sure!) that all too often we spend a little too much time in Party meetings etc. talking about what we like or don't like that the Party leadership or CCHQ has done lately.

Wouldn't it be better to put the same time into something we could have an immediate and direct impact on - reforming and improving our own operations on the ground?

As for your "revolt", I haven't seen any evidence of it - have you any subtantive stories on this? All hot air on your part, I presume...

[Yet Another Anon]

and the point I was making that if you can still hold onto seats in the worst times like the Wintertons etc.
Ann Winterton has only survived in Congleton because the Labour and Liberal Democrat votes were spread fairly evenly meaning no clear challenger, if the vote unites behind one party or the other then she could well be out next time and Macclesfield is nowhere near as safe as it used to be although I don't think it is likely that Nick Winterton will be beaten and probably will retire as MP.

Local Election successes in Cheshire over a number of years have not been translating into parliamentary successes, remarkably as well the Conservatives seemed to have reached a high point in Local Elections in Macclesfield a few years back and have actually been slipping back.

[John Irvine]

Ann and Nicholas Winterton are excellent MPs. Real Tories.

Once they're gone I expect that will be the end up there

[Josh]

No-one know where Aberdeen CF is?

[Anthony Scholefield]

Philip Davies is the man-right on Europe-talks sense about the BNP-right on the gays-remember Catholics make up a large part of the NorthWest-another open goal and Cameron shoots wide

[congaconga]

Josh, you don't believe all the hype about CF do you? It is only a name for members under 30.
In my experience (ie up to two years ago) there is no CF in Scotland. You have the choice between Aberdeen University Conservative Association (which will be nominally CF to keep CCHQ happy though they will openly mock the concept in practice), or your local constituency association. Join one or the other. In my experience scottish associations are great fun, so you'll not be missing anything (not that CF's anything to miss).

[Annabel Herriott]

Do you know Northern Anon, the professional support seems keener on us having an A Lister MP than a good local candidate. It remains to be seen who wins through. The one very good local, or one of the selection of A Losters. Sorry! Typo. A Listers.

[Mark McCartney]

Annabelle remember that the A list was forced on us by Cameron. It's been a disaster.

congaconga, CF appears to be a farce. What a comedown from the YCs. We regularly held 1000+ conferences up and down the country at a time when FCS - also successful - was a totally separate organisation.

The party appears to be coming apart at the seams.

[matt wright]

Paul Kennedy is right when he says putting up candidates is half the battle. I have been saying this before in various threads. One simple aim the party can set itself in the "North" is to help associations to field much more candidates. We would win many more seats just be doing this.

Matt

[Mark McCartney]

When I joined the party some time around 1899, Tory councillors were by and large substantial or small businessmen fully representative of their community. Their Labour opponents were often senior TUC men.

The Labour Party was then taken over by the bedsit brigade which produced Marxist scum like Livingstone. We had a Livingstone clone right here, and his predecessor, an old-time shop steward, told me "I've pulled the chain on better men than him". Two years later the clone resigned after being convicted of soliciting in a toilet.

What happened next? The Tory Party became widely infected by its own version of the bedsit brigade. Wannabee types with low-grade jobs desperate to claim any cash going and wanting everybody to address them as "Councillor" - probably the biggest thing to happen in their sad lives.

Meetings were then moved to the evenings, disrupting family life and effectively barring responsible fathers from taking part. It's probably one reason for the widely-discussed homosexual influence in today's party.

No high-flying young man with a future in business is now going to want to become a Tory councillor. As a result we get geeks and losers. The only way to get high-calibre candidats is to concentrate on retired people with a record of achievement behind them.

To a large degree this happens in the natural Tory rural and semi-rural areas, but the sign are that the cities still get dross.

[Gareth]

Nothing like a crass generalisation based on tin-pot prejudice is there Mr McCartney? There was almost a debate for a moment or two there, how splendid of you to have 'contributed' to it with your low-grade abusive bile.

[Gospel of Enoch]

"Hatred of the world as it is", Gareth?
You try talking to someone whose local post office has closed. Or a fisherman, who can't earn a living. Or an MP who finds his clever idea can't be adopted by the government, because competence for legislation has been ceded to the EU. There's a lot to hate...

[matt wright]

What a truly unpleasant nasty person you are Mr Mcartney. I don't know if you are a member but if this is what you think of the world we need you like a hole in the head. If others feel the same way and are whingeing as usual about leaving, perhaps good riddance should be the reply of the party,

Matt

[Sean Fear]

Surely evening meetings would make it easier for people with families to become councillors.

As to the rest, there are plenty of able Tory councillors, as well as those who aren't.

[TomTOm]

When I joined the party some time around 1899, Tory councillors were by and large substantial or small businessmen fully representative of their community. Their Labour opponents were often senior TUC men.

1899 ? Aren't you dead or senile by now ? What has the TUC to do with anything ? It is only a coordinating body without any real power.

[matt wright]

His mind may be stuck in 1899 if not quite his body!

Matt

[Gospel of Enoch]

"Ann and [Sir] Nicholas Winterton are excellent MPs. Real Tories"

Of course they are. They've signed BOO :-)

[Mark McCartney]

>>What a truly unpleasant nasty person you are Mr Mcartney. I don't know if you are a member but if this is what you think of the world we need you like a hole in the head.<<

Hard luck Matt. I'm staying on.

My post seems to have upset you. Bit too close to the truth was it?

[Richard Carey]

Hard luck Matt. I'm staying on. My post seems to have upset you. Bit too close to the truth was it?

Mark, I do think that Matt was right to raise his concerns at the tone of your post. Please do note that rightly or wrongly (as with all blogs, CH is open to trolling despite Tim and Sam's best efforts) journalists to tend to quote comments on this site as representative of Conservative Party opinion.

Of course we need to continue to bring the very best people on board into local government in the Party. All politics is local, and bringing in good people from the ground up is vital. I would take issue with you that evening meetings deter people with professional careers from applying as candidates. Surely such people would be averse to taking time off work? My own district council still holds the bulk of its meetings in the afternoons, I believe, a factor that would deter me from standing for election to it. I'm not a "local businessman", by the way, I'm an engineer - would you find me unrepresentative on those grounds?

Your follow-up comment about homosexuality is beneath contempt, and I will treat it accordingly.

As a volunteer activist currently working to fill a few remaining places on slates locally, I would agree with you only that we need to attract a broader range of people as candidates to enable us to select early and select local wherever possible.

Local government candidates and engaged, well-trained and equipped local campaign teams will be as much a component of our revival in constituencies in northern England as they are anywhere else.

[Ivan The Yid From Bradford]

Having worked for the Conservative Party for 20 years in Bradford including being a member in Shipley if I still lived in Shipley now I would have rejoined because the MP is excellent and challenges all of Camerloons idioces. Just one example of how the Party has disintegrated - some persons have referred to Campaign centres. I tried to contact the NE campaign centre because of some information I needed. A lot of confusion with directory enquiries between the NE Campaign Centre and the Newcastle Constituencies joint offices. Finally I phoned Central Office to get the phone number. I was given a phone number and also told the NE agent was a Mr Bolton. I was offered his landline number. The number began 01484 - I pointed out to the girl from Central Office that this was a Huddersfield number - 'well thats in the North East' was the reply !! I tried the number out of interest, it was a pub in Huddersfield !! When I did get through to the NE campaign Centre I found it was open part time 2 days a week. A party whose employees do not know geography and gives out wrong numbers for part time opening campaign centres is a joke.

[Yet Another Anon]

Once they're gone I expect that will be the end up there
They've put off quite a few people, Nick Winterton's involvement in the Danegate Project and things Ann Winterton has said regarding minority ethnic groups very publicly in jokes have put some people off, in Macclesfield I think it would take boundary changes or radical demographic changes for Labour or the Liberal Democrats to win the seat, certainly Macclesfield has changed a lot in the past 20 years - more the town than the surrounding country; It's likely that the Conservatives will increase their majority in Macclesfield at the next election probably to 12,000 or so and Labour will remain second over the next few elections, Congleton the Conservative vote will probably increase but the majority may go down.

[Mark McCartney]

Well Richard, you do at least respond with something approaching courtesy. However I think you (and the abusive Gareth and Matt) know exactly what I mean. You don't like my bluntness/brutality, but that doesn't mean I'm not telling it like it is.

It doesn't matter whether you describe the glass as half full or half empty. The problem remains. Of course it affects all the parties; not just us.

Over a period of many years activity with my then association I saw the old-time businessmen leave forever, and then I watched the procession of wannabees come and go. I know for a fact that the pattern was repeated in many places elsewhere in the country because it's something I often used to discuss at conferences.

You can put a gloss on the phenomenon if you want but I regard it with contempt. The old businessmen could take an afternoon off at will. No doubt council meetings were changed to evenings to suit low-level workers who couldn't get time off but, as I said, it plays havoc with family life.

As well as being involved with the Conservative Party I have for years been involved with a range of voluntary and charitable organisations, and with the Church. These days, when selfishness and greed rule an increasing number of people in this rather unpleasant modern society of ours, it is very difficult to get the support we would once have taken for granted.

"Me-ism" is not simply a problem of the younger generation. I find it difficult to contain my disgust when retired people, who could once have been relied upon to do useful voluntary work, are shown on TV making fools of themselves with line dancing and other worthless self-indulgent activities.

Returning to our councillor wanabee friends I could write a book about some of the idiots I've encountered, starting before you were born. It would be a comedy best-seller but I doubt that you'd be amused.

[Gareth]

"and the abusive Gareth and Matt"

At least your sense of irony is intact Mr McCartney.

[Sean Fear]

Congleton was once thought marginal, in the early Eighties, but now looks safe. Macclesfield is very safe. I don't think we're in danger of losing either seat.

[matt wright]

Obviously everyones an idiot except you Mark,

Matt

[TartanTory]

Josh,

There is a branch of CF at Aberdeen University and a branch in the actual city.

Visit them at www.uacua.co.uk or e-mail [email protected]. They are also on Facebook.