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It's just so lucky our MEPs were still in the group and were able to use the increased influence this gives them.


Absolutley right Editor. The EPP, especially under this new leader, is utterly incompatible with the stated aims and principles of the Conservative Party. Staying in this grouping sullies the reputation of our MEPs. We all know 2009 is political never-never land: an early exit might help disapppointed and lapsed members such as myself to see some light at the end of the current long and dark tunnel.

Any comment from Mr Kirkhope or the rest of the Europhiles on this?

Out with the old, in the... old. Oh.


For what it's worth, there were 4 candidates for that position: Daul (France, UMP), Hokmark (Sweden, Moderata), Tajani (Italy, Forza Italia) and Karas (Austria, OVP).
The result of second round was Daul 88 votes, Hokmark 86 votes, Tajani 77 votes. The final result was: Daul 134 votes, Hokmark 115 votes

His election makes our case slightly more difficult, but we'll live to fight another day. Conservative MEPs should continue to stand up for Britain's interests within the EPP until we formally leave for the new grouping (which will be called?) sometime this year.

I totally agree with the Editor. Can there be ANY reason to stay in the EPP? The Conservatives and the EPP are completely incompatible. About time DC's promise was fulfilled. Could carrying out such a promise could help restore a little confidence in politicians, and reduce defections to ukip.

And I would go further...better off out altogether!

One gets the feeling that DC is trying to wriggle out of this 'promise' of his, because he's secretly a Europhile as well.

Daniel says "One gets the feeling that DC is trying to wriggle out of this 'promise' of his, because he's secretly a Europhile as well."

Does one? Does one really believe that DC is a secret Europhile? Does one have any evidence for this assertion? Or is one just another conspiracy-addled UKIP nutter?

The sooner we abandon the rat-infested ship that is the EPP the better. They're clearly under the control of the statists and our continued association with them can only leave us smelling as bad as they do.

UKIPPERs probably believe that David Cameron is a large Jewish lizard who co-chairs the Bilderbergers along with Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother.

Justin, at least people from UKIP actually believe in something with conviction - which is better than can be said of you, as you somehow manage to spout utter garbage with every jab of the keyboard with your pudgy little fingers.

Please refrain from persoanal abuse, Chris. For your information, my fingers are quite long and slender


"Justin, at least people from UKIP actually believe in something with conviction"
Excuse me, but just about everyone interested in politics believes in something with conviction. And being a UKIPPER with a passionately anti Europe stance does not give them some higher morale plateform, god we get enough of this type of "my convictions are more genuinely held than yours" from libdemmers!

Actually Justin,it was probably "persoanal" as in the persoanally retentive Chris! Sorry about that, but it's getting late - way past the watershed.

One coould wish that this man would get wider publicity, in the press here, because surely if his obvious anti-english attitudes were more widely known it would influence people even politicians? Unless Mr. Daul can set aside his anti-englishness - which I should think is unlikely - the situation for England is going to be grim during the whole of his term of office. His entrenched 'frenchness' reminds one of De Gaulle!! If he has his way English farmers will be even more discriminated against than they have been up till now.

It funny really because he has the face of an English bull dog!!

Back to the thread please Chris and Justin...

David must be so pleased that there are no divisions in the party over EU membership.

This highlights why the EPP pledge made by Cameron in the leadership election was absolutely right - and why his failure to meet that pledge, seemingly backed for some reason by William Hague, is an appalling failure of leadership on his part.

Hague is a (*********) just like Justin!

Most excellent piece Editor. It will probably be overlooked by the print media as being about "Europe".

In future decades and centuries won't historians be amazed how we sleepwalked into this. You won't be popular with Party bosses.

"You won't be popular with Party bosses".

and just how long do you suppose the "Ted Heath Traitor Party" is going to last for. UKIP is the new Conservative Party.

If Ukippers were 'of conviction' they would be more devious and fight their campaign both inside and outsde the Conservative party and through any other political networks available. Independence is a clear cut goal, but undermining Conservative strength in the HoC is apparently UKIP's only strategy. Nothing could be more counterproductive to the cause of British independence from the EU.

Now is the chance for all "right" thinking people to turn the European Parliament from a leftist socialist parliament to a Parliament that, for the first time in its history MIGHT be more suitable to ALL the people of the European Union, the only question is, have they 'left' it too late for change? The EU Parliament likes to make changes for other people, but they are none too keen on changes for themselves. Such is the way of the socialist trend I wonder we are not all in grey trouser suits with little mandarin collars.

I wait to see if the Conservative Members join this new group, or will we see them at last for what they really are at heart?

Tanuki advocates leaving the "rat infested ship that is the EPP". For what? To sit in a smaller and possibly leakier boat?

It may have some more freindly fellow passengers but it would still be floating on the same tide of effluent.

To continue the nautical analogy maybe Dave should give serious consideration to getting out of boating altogether.

>>Does one? Does one really believe that DC is a secret Europhile?<<

Yes one does, and talking about "not banging on about Europe" is a pretty obvious clue to Cameron's sentiments.

In the past these have been right-wing Europhiles (eg Duncan Sandys and Amery) and left-wing Eurosceptics but generally speaking if it barks like a dog it is a dog and a Tory left-winger such as Cameron is, at the very least, highly suspect.

Cameron promised to get us out of the EPP in weeks rather than months. His failure to do so indicates that he couldn't give a damn about the issue.

The public are not "bored" with Europe. They are in fact desperately concerned about the ongoing loss of British sovereignty to this unaccountable empire.

The myth that the public are "bored" with Europe is a lie pushed by the Eurofanatic left of our party.

We know how loyal these people are. There has been a (welcome) exodus of Eurofanatics for many years to opposition parties including the shory-lived proEU "Conservative" Party which crashed and burned without trace.

The public are not "bored" with Europe. They are in fact desperately concerned about the ongoing loss of British sovereignty to this unaccountable empire.

They are bored with politicians though who say one thing but do another.......noone has explained ghow most EU Integration took place when Margaret Thatcher was Prime Minister - why she did not get the Charlemagne Medal is unclear - before 1980 the EU did not reach into every area of our lives - after 1990 it certainly did

Strangely enough, some were speculating that this outcome was exactly what the Eurosceptic MEPs were aiming for...

Come along and meet the 'nice' chaps at UKIP


Do you really want to join Nigel Farage and his merry shrinking band?

It is hard to imagine the EPP-ED electing a worse individual!

So Daul speaks German and was born in Strasbourg in 1947

Potterding becomes Speaker of the EU Parliament

Business as usual.

Sorry........untreated dyslexia

Hans-Gert Poettering becomes President of EuroParl

Is UKIP@HOME a genuine Conservative or just some rather bitter and twisted ex-UKIP member with an axe to grind?

The initial post illustrates all too plainly what's wrong with British Euroscepticism. So let's look at that 'charge sheet' one more time:

1.) He's French! He's a farmer! So what?! All the more in his favour I say. If only we could behave a bit more like the French (even French farmers!), perhaps then we wouldn't be seen round the world like American lapdogs?

2.) He's a protectionist. Though not one I or many other Thatcherites share, an impeccably right wing position throughout the ages. It's, for example, the policy this site's pin-up boy George Bush practices with gusto.

3.) He's for the CAP. Dreadful, obviously. But what exactly are we proposing to actually do about the CAP, or the CFP come to that? Bugger all, and less under this current leadership than under the last three.

4.) He doesn't speak English. He lives near Strasbourg. Oh give us a break, this is embarrassing to the point of being pathetic. Or to put that another way, hands up Homies who speak French.

5.) He supports the Euro and the Constitution. I'm as Eurospcetic as anyone reading this (I support "Better Off Out"), but how is it is a part of British Euroscepticism for us to tell foreign politicians what's best for their countries? If a French right winger wishes to support the Euro or the Constitution because he thinks it's in France's interests to do so, he may be wrong, but it's not our place to tell him!

The sole problem here relates to ongoing Tory membership of the EPP, which isn't the fault of sinister French famrers who speak French and ... live in France, but David bloody cameron.

Oh dear...I wonder what Cameron thinks of this...

DC should be looking at his party back home. He has now lost two peers to UKIP, Lord Pearson and Lord Willoughby de Broke. Perhaps he is hoping nobody will notice, but I suspect this might be the start of a new trend, if as illustrated on this blog the Conservative supporters are so divided on the EU, you can bet that the House of Lords is just as divided. Who could be next? Lord Tebbit perhaps???

Lord Tebbit perhaps??? I keep praying but the good Lord has yet to deliver!

Interesting is it not that Poettering has been replaced in the EPP before his election to the EP Presidency? Now how many chickens has he got in this here egg box?
Hubris anyone?

He has now lost two peers to UKIP, Lord Pearson and Lord Willoughby de Broke

Right, so two peers who lost the Conservative whip and left the Party several years back for telling people to vote UKIP (under, um, Michael Howard) have now joined UKIP. Wow, what a surprise.

"DC should be looking at his party back home. He has now lost two peers to UKIP, Lord Pearson and Lord Willoughby de Broke. Perhaps he is hoping nobody will notice, but I suspect this might be the start of a new trend"
Torygirl, DC did not lose two peers. The conservative party withdrew the whip from these two a while back. I don't think many other people noticed either because they were not part of the conservative party in the HoL.

John Wilkinson, good post.

On what grounds do some of you claim that Cameron is EUrosceptic? I have heard none. A promise made to get him elected and promptly broken, that alone convicts him as a EUrophile, or as I have asked before, is someone else pulling his strings?

The EU costs the people of this Country billions of pounds which could be put to better use here.

We gotta get out of this place...so the song went.
Dave has to review his position, this is destroying his credibility and causing angst among the Europhobes, which will split the party, and cause more defections to UKIP.

Just in, message from EPP HQ from our new leader:
Ah ouais, mes petits Anglais, je vous emmerde. Va t'en Davide, ohohohohoh.

'Scuse me for a minute folks while I go to sign up with "Nigel Farage and his merry shrinking band" (sic) and leave you nice but innefective (and not a little dim) Tories to flounder about in your own shrnking cod nets a bit more.

Oh no! We've lost Lord Willoughby de Broke to UKIP! That's it, we're finished!.

From Today's Telegraph:

To lose someone such as LORD WILLOUGHBY DE BROKE, a key player in conservative thinking since the 15th century, is little short of political DEATH for EVIL EUROPHILE CAMERON. Lord Willoughby de Broke is the author of, erm, and he had a key role in the Thatcher era when he, umm, er, well. As the Telegraph has been writing for a year now, there has been a mass exodus of Conservatives to UKIP's arms, including LORD WILLOUGHBY DE BROKE and, er, party membership continues to increase [ed: is this right?] [cont. on p94]

Of course Cameron is a Europhile, does anyone really think that ubber europhile Hurd would allow a sceptic to take over his seat.

He promised to leave the EPP in "weeks not months" to get the sceptic vote and over 1 yr later is still in it. He ratted on Duncan Smiths and Howards pledge to renegotiate the CFP.

Why else did the likes of the terminally pro Brussels BBC do everything they could to wreck Davis' bid and support Cameron, they even had Newsnight fawning all over him, other than because Davis is a true sceptic.

Every sceptic that voted for him has been conned, you have a full on europhile leader and even worse he is not honest enough to say so, you were all stiched up.

Why do we need to be part of ANY grouping within the EP? Do we really benefit from tying ourselves to other parties which will invariably have interests and policies which will have at least some conflict with our own core values? After all, the consensus is that we would not want to form a coalition with the Lib Dems in the UK Parliament, even though it may be arguable that at least in terms of voter demographics a lot of Lib Dem voters are similar to our support (as witnessed by the number of formerly Tory seats which comfortably have switched to becoming safe LibDem seats).

"Dave has to review his position, this is destroying his credibility and causing angst among the Europhobes, which will split the party, and cause more defections to UKIP."
Oh god, this is like ground hog day. If the conservative party has not split because of angst among Europhobes in the last 15 years it ain't going to happen now! Also think that UKIP should be opening loads of new branches rather than seeing existing ones collapsing or closing due to lack of interest if this mythical increase in conservative defections was happening.

Why do we need to be part of ANY grouping within the EP?

M. O. N. E. Y.

'The Remittance Man' @ 07.38 - '...to sit in a smalleer and possibly leakier boat?... Why do YOU think that the EPP 'welcomes' the UK onto their 'rat infested ship'?? MONEY as someone else posted on this thread in a slightly different context. The UK is very rich by many countries standards, and the main reason that the EU, the EPP and all the other 'E's' want us around is what they can get out of us - NOTHING ELSE AT ALL!!!!!!!!!

John Wilkinson @ 9.47 - Of course OUR politician's should not be telling other EU countries politician's waht to do BUT, hello! the EU and its 'politician's' has been dictating to US - the UK, ever since we joined - well since Maasstricht at least, and if you think that the French are fair, and we should copy their farmers, how do you propose that we should do it? Mr. Daul wanted to ban the import of British beef long after it was pronounced safe, AND if you do any research into how the french farmers behaved with regard to their own herds and notifying the authorities during the outbreak, you might begin to understand that as far as the French are concerned OUR farmers are COMPETITION, and that the CAP, which is weighted in their favour, is done so for that obvious reason!! And this man Daul is hardly likely to change his attitude, during his time in office. I could go on and on......

As a Eurosceptic, I think there are significant positives and negatives regarding Daul's election. On the negative side, his leadership is likely to stall all efforts at solid reform of the EU's institutions and therefore frustrate the work of our MEPs in this field. On the positive side, his leadership is highly likely to add fuel to the fire of those who support leaving the EPP. Had the hugely impressive Gunnar Hokmark been elected Chairman, it would have knocked any chance of us leaving the EPP on the head.

Money? What do we get from the EPP and do we really need it?

I believe an MEP can claim more money when they're outside the EPP.

Reality check, it is not EU money, it belongs to the people of the contributing nations. Secondly the MEPs have little effect on what happens. Only the unelected "Commisioners" can propose new laws and directives, MEPs have little control. As for reforming the EU, dream on, it is a non starter. The EU is working as it was designed to work, for the benefit of French farmers and to ratchet up control until they achieve a EU state.


I think you misunderstood my comment, possibly due to the excessive nautical allusions. I agree, the EPP want the Tory MEPs for their money. But then so would any other group they might join. I was arguing that simply changing from one dodgy alliance within the ep to another would be about as effective as re-arranging the deckchairs on the Titanic (sorry, got boats on the mind today).

But, to my mind, it's an irrelevant debate.

The three most important questions that the Tories need to ask and have answered truthfully are these:

Do we like the eu the way it is now?

Can the British Conservatives ever muster sufficient clout to change the eu to something better?


If we cannot change the organisation, does it benefit Britain to remain part of it?

My gut feel is that the truthful answer would be "NO", "NO" and thrice "NO". I suspect that the pro-euros know this too and are very afraid that someone will one day be impertinant to ask those very questions. They are also afraid that having learned the truth, the British will then draw the only logical conclusion and ask to leave. Depriving the EP, the EU and the whores of Brussels of large amounts of British cash.

But, they don't have to worry about it today, because they've managed to get the Tories (about the only real doubters in the whole sorry mess) squabbling amongst themselves about which little tea club they are going to join.

>>Lord Tebbit perhaps??? I keep praying but the good Lord has yet to deliver!<<

Lord Tebbit has served his country, and his party, magnificently and he and his family have suffered grievously for their patriotism.

What has this little pipsqueak Justin Hinchcliffe ever achieved for his country and who does he think he is anyway?

And a happy New Year to you too, Mark.


UKIP MEP joins fascist grouping in EU Parliament - read about it here.

Keep looking in for an update at 10pm

UKIP@Home should note that Ashley Mote is an ex UKIP MEP. TOSSER!!!

"Spot the Tory Tosser" has just been banned. I am concerned at the increasing playground nature of many comments on this site. Sam and I will be taking stronger, faster action against people in future.

Attack the liars, Tim!

Editor, should you not think also about banning UKIP@HOME, who is a purely malicious poster?

His/her post at 20:19 looks to me to be potentially libellous.

UKIP members are joining the British National Party in droves.So would not worry too much about one little Lord.

Please read my 10pm update

UKIP members have been correctly pointed out that Ashley Mote MEP had the UKIP whip withdrawn in 2004 amidst allegations of Housing Benefit Fraud so he is not a UKIP MEP.

Point taken - however, UKIP have issued press statements that 2 Conservative Peers have 'defected' to UKIP. They are rubbing your hands with glee at these 'Conservative' defections.

Like Ashley Mote who had the UKIP whip withdrawn in 2004, these Lords had the Conservative whip withdrawn in 2004.

If UKIP can call these Lords 'Conservative' then we are fully justified in calling Ashley Mote 'UKIP'.

Remittance Man @ 17.03 - I agree with you entirely, its the one area where I think that David Cameron is the least effective, and it makes me worry, because it is NOT money from the MEP's that the EU wants, it is money from the UK, and they want us to buy from them BUT they don't want to buy goods FROM us. They tie us up with rules and regulations, which the French at least treat as a joke. I think the whole thing makes us the laughing stock of Europe!!!

Patsy Sergeant is correct. We are the laughing stock of Europe, and its cash cow.

Politicians of all parties have been saying for decades that we need to be members "to have influence"

In fact our influence has been close to zero. We are the mega-losers of the EU


It appears my post of 20.19 has sent poor Chad Noble into some sort of frenzy. He thinks we are a BNP troll!

Perhaps if Chad would like to visit our Blog and read carefully the post about Ashley Moat MEP.

My post of 22.21 also exposes UKIP hypocrisy.

You appear to be some kind of troll. Embittered ex-UKIP I would say.

Who is Chad Noble?

I'm closing this thread. It's way off topic.

The comments to this entry are closed.



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