Tory members are closest to UKIP

"OTHER than the Conservative Party, which of the following political parties in Britain is CLOSEST to your views?"

That question at the end of the ConservativeHome Members' Panel survey produced the following results for self-declared Conservative Party members:

• UKIP: 43%
• Liberal Democrat: 7%
• Ulster Unionist: 6%
• Labour: 4%
• BNP: 3%
• Democratic Unionist: 2%
• Scottish Nationalist: 1%
• Plaid: <1%
• None: 31%
• Don’t know: 3%

A survey of the CHMP in July found that 30% of members fully supported the Better Off Out campaign to leave the EU and another 33% had sympathy with it.

Comments

[I'm a Tory get me out of here.............]

Oops!

[Geoff]

It amuses me that 31% said 'none' when the question specifically referred to the "closest".

Simple understanding of the English language shows that one option must always be "closest" and 'none' can therefore never be an answer.

A triumph for our education system, doubtless. Why on earth can't we argue for more Grammar schools?

< pedant mode = off >

On a more constructive note, you must have to ask how apparently self-declared (and therein may lie the clue) party members have made some of these choices.

Selecting UUP/DUP I can completely understand. Opting for UKIP is probably just a proxy way of expressing support for Better Off Out. BNP and SNP selectors are almost certainly trolls.

The person who opted for Plaid probably just ticked the wrong box or had been on the meths.

[Cllr Graham Smith]

Geoff - with hindsight, the "none" option on this question should probably have read "other".

A number of people have also pointed out that "English Democrats" should have been included on the list.

[Matt]

Geoff - many people, like me, understood perfectly the meaning of the question, but were not prepared to contribute towards the inevitable "Cameron risks losing members to UKIP" story. That's why I ticked the "none" box.

[Tory Loyalist]

No surprise at all with this report. I know many Tories who have defected to UKIP and several whom I have actually dissuaded from defecting.

My main problem with UKIP is that their people ought to be with us, battling to get the Conservative Party back on the right road. I have huge regard for Nigel Farage, whom I have been delighted to meet personally and I detest Cameron and his "Hug a Hoodie" mentality.

There are three reasons why I don't join UKIP. The first that they are a one issue party possibly holds less weight than it did but the second, that they are stil not a serious national contender is far more weighty.

But to me the third is most important. I am simply not going to let my party, for which I have worked for more than 30 years, be hi-jacked by a tiny clique of the very liberal leftists I detest even more than out-and-out socialists and communists. I'm fighting back.

What's more, earlier this year I discovered a little-known fact. UKIP have no rule prohibiting their members being members of any other non-racist party. As a result I was able to persuade two Tories-turned-UKIP to become joint members of both parties in order to fight the anti-EU corner on two front and to help me work against the fifth columnists in our party.

[TomTom]

My main problem with UKIP is that their people ought to be with us, battling to get the Conservative Party back on the right road.

When has the Conservative Party ever had a credible policy on the EU ?

[justin Hinchcliffe]

Tim, a question for clarification: the press report the outcome of these polls as the views of Conservative members but my understanding is that non-members and supporters of other parties are allowed to participate - is this correct?

[Editor]

Tory supporters and non-members are allowed to vote, Justin, but only those identified as Conservative members are counted in most published numbers. Please see here for reasons why you can trust ConservativeHome surveys.

[HF]

Are there not grounds to worry that ConHome's poll has been infiltrated by UKIP people?

http://www.democracyforum.co.uk/about16082.html

I do have concerns about some of the PR and policy communication. Concerns yes, disatisfaction No. How can as many as 1/3 be disatisfied when we have reached consistent 35%+ polling for first period in 15 years!

From my discussions I would put the real disatisfaction level as less than 1 in 10. Not 1 in 3.

[Editor]

I refer you, HF, to the answer I gave some moments ago. Look at my link - I think you'll find it very reassuring.

[Richard Weatherill]

As a follow-up to Justin's question, Tim, am I correct that "those identified as Conservative members" actually means "those who identify themselves as Conservative members" (in response to one of the standard survey questions)? You have, presumably, no way of verifying their membership claims independently?

I think I can see where Justin's heading and, in a way, I'm reluctant to support him because I happen to think the UKIP response is an accurate reflection of the membership's view. (I spend quite a bit of time trying to persuade people not to defect.) Nevertheless, we so need to know how much faith we can put in the figures.

[Richard Weatherill]

For "so" in my last sentence, please read "do". (Sounds a bit Vicki Pollard otherwise!)

[Editor]

I don't know if people are reading my suggested link as the link answers the questions people keep posing.

The key thing to remember is that we compare the sample that accurately predicted last year's leadership electuion (which was recruited from the mailing lists of Conservative groups and the DC/DD leadership supporters lists) to the results of newer members of the survey panel. Only tiny adjustments of less than 1% would be needed to keep the new members' results consistent with the initial sample. I do not suggest that there is not possibility for some infiltration of the survey but the initial group within the survey acts as an anchor to stop such infiltration having any appreciable effect.

[justin Hinchcliffe]

Tim, I have just followed the link and, sadly, I'm not reassured. The best way to keep out trolls from other parties (esp. UKIP) is to publish a mini register of panel members who can clearly be identified.

[Mark Fulford]

Simple understanding of the English language shows that one option must always be "closest" and 'none' can therefore never be an answer.

A triumph for our education system, doubtless. Why on earth can't we argue for more Grammar schools?

Your comment is illogical. I went to grammar school (note, lower case 'g') and voted 'none'. And consider which of the following numbers is closest to 100?

a) 50
b) 150
c) none

How would you answer?

[Stephen B]

Tim, I don't know if this is something that will come out later but is it possible to slice the data to indicate what percentage of people choosing UKIP or Other orignally voted for either DC of DD?

Also, it is possible to let us know roughly the sample size - I appreciate that this isn't representative of the population as a whole but it would be good to know how robust the findings are.

[Og]

This seems to me to be entirely credible.

UKIP ought to be the "closest" to the Conservatives for anyone with a eurosceptic disposition (ie the great majority of Tories). But this does not indicate a voting intention, necessarily. The fact that UKIP are a single-issue party, and very recently had an absurdity like Kilroy seeking the leadership makes them a possible way to vote only for European elections, and not for the real thing.

I agree that those who answered "none" were copping out, or are people of little imagination or broad political perspective.

[justin Hinchcliffe]

I chose the Lib Dems - in fact if liberal orange bookers ran the Party, I'd be a Lib Dem. Sadly, it is run by ultra left-wingers who believe high taxation and banning things (like hunting and smoking) will cure society's ills.

[SimonNewman]

I agree with Og above - UKIP's policies as such are probably closer to what the majority of Conservative members would favour than are current Conservative leadership policies at national and European level; OTOH UKIP are not a credible party at local level or in terms of their leadership. If supporting UKIP entrenches Labour in power, most Eurosceptics would rather vote Conservative.

[Editor]

It would take me a little bit of time to answer your first question Stephen B but as for your second...

74.2% of the Panel's approximately 2,000 respondents identified them as Conservative members. Only 1,288 of these results have been included in this data as the survey weighting was carried out on Friday - after which a few more people voted.

18.3% as Conservative supporters (but not members).

3.0% as supporters of other parties.

4.5% as other/ living outside of UK.

[Umbrella Man]

There is a lot of 'shooting the messenger' above. This poll sheds light on what a lot of party bigwigs would rather not know. The Tory members are largely and passionately eurosceptical and the leadership's silence on Europe is one of the drivers of the grassroots discontent.

[Scotty]

Would have been interesting if a regional/age breakdown had been included in this question.
43% closest to UKIP but 57% would go to other parties, none of the above and don't knows!
Would also not be surprised if many who opted for UKIP were not already in conservative held constituencies simple on the basis that UKIP seems strongest in conservative heartlands in the South.

"Geoff - many people, like me, understood perfectly the meaning of the question, but were not prepared to contribute towards the inevitable "Cameron risks losing members to UKIP" story. That's why I ticked the "none" box." Matt, snap! I must admit I had a bit of fun contempleting what I would do if I ever stopped the habit of a lifetime and did not put my cross next to the conservatives.

[John Marsh]

Many are sympathetic to or considering leaving to join UKIP because of the Conservative Party's failure to address concerns over immigration. The UKIP's policy of zero immigration is popular with members. Cameron's policy is bland waffle.

[david]

Living in a rural area, there is no doubt that UKIP is closer to most Tory voters than David Cameron's Liberal Conservative party. At the next GE it will be interesting to see, if Conservatives who do not support Cameron, will vote UKIP and risk another four years of Labour, in the hope that they can pull the Tory Party on to a more 'rightwards' direction.

[CCHQ Spy]

Those suggesting that this poll is a rogue obviously spend no time at Conservative Association events.

[Tory Loyalist]

Too true, CCHQ Spy. The rumblings of discontent are increasing to a roar.

The biggest real CCHQ Spy here is Scotty the fake Scotsman who clearly lives a very long way from his claimed home.

Up there, where even the leading Tories are still Tories, they saw through Cameron from day one.

[Jorgen]

UKIP is closer to most Tory voters than David Cameron's Liberal Conservative party.

I think that about sums it up. If DC is still in power at the next gegeral election, many will probably vote UKIP, either as a protest vote or because they find UKIP is closer a Conservative (with capital 'C') view.

Likewise many UKIP are probably Conservative, who under the right conditions would return to the fold.

[Mark Fulford]

Tory Loyalist, some time ago I came to a conclusion that people who write under particularly Tory pseudonyms are normally the exact opposite of what they claim.

Up there, where even the leading Tories are still Tories...

Remind me, how are Scottish Conservatives doing in the polls?

[Stephen B]

Editor at 10.17 - many thanks. Sorry to pose the difficult question about UKIP/Cameron supporters - my guess is that the people who 'voted' UKIP & Cameron & are now registering disapointment with him are the danger (or the opportunity depending on your point of view!).

Speaking as a geek, I would just love to get my hands on that raw data and start crunching away at it to see what kind of weird and wonderful subgroupings there were lurking in there!

[HF]

"John Marsh stated; Many are sympathetic to or considering leaving to join UKIP because of the Conservative Party's failure to address concerns over immigration. The UKIP's policy of zero immigration is popular with members. Cameron's policy is bland waffle."

We went big on immigration in the last GE and lost! In the period before May 05, UKIP was growing. So it did not attract these folk back then.

UKIP's membership has since plummeted to 10,000 real members (according to Petrina.). So they are not a realistic alternative.

[Richard]

This isn't surprising really. Despite what some people might claim, UKIP are not extremists - they just have a tendency to focus excessively on the EU. Their other policies wouldn't look out of place in a traditional Conservative manifesto.

[Yet Another Anon]

BNP and SNP selectors are almost certainly trolls.
The BNP and SNP levels of support in this survey are about the same as you would expect in a survey of the general population at the moment, if anything slightly lower.

We went big on immigration in the last GE and lost! In the period before May 05, UKIP was growing. So it did not attract these folk back then.
UKIP had the problem that the Robert Kilroy Silk fanclub broke away after the European Elections, despite this and despite being the 4th national party they still increased their total vote by more votes than the Conservative Party did and are now up to the levels in parliamentary elections that the Liberals were in the 1950's.

Selecting UUP/DUP I can completely understand. Opting for UKIP is probably just a proxy way of expressing support for Better Off Out.
It might reflect dissatisfaction with liberal policies of the Conservative Party and all 3 main parties and a desire for restoration of Capital Punishment and stricter discipline in society, also support for more traditional social values generally.

[Larry Green]

I actually voted for Cameron but I have to say I now can't believe I did it.

If we are going to face a 'Clunking Fist' at the next election we need a 'Big Swinging Dick' to run this party. Cameron increasingly comes over as a wimp who can't cut the mustard.

I agree with people who say that the support for Cameron is very superficial. It's liable to change at the drop of a hat and it seems to be coming from people who can never make their minds up anyway.

'Get ahead get a hoodie' is not a credible motto for our party. I actually agree we have to APPEAR to be a little softer on areas where we want votes - gays for example - but my worry with Cameron is that he actually believes in this Blairite stuff.

[Stephen B]

BNP and SNP selectors are almost certainly trolls.

I would also add to this that the SNP is a reasonably broad church with some elements that Tories (from either the economically or the socially conservative sections of the party) could do business with - depending on their strength of feeling towards the Union.

That said, there are also many SNP elements that are seriously to the left of Scottish Labour.

The BNP, on the other hand, are merely authoritarian national socialists.

[Daniel VA]

I have to say this result is hardly surprising, given that we all know that UKIP has a reputation as being little more than a glorified pressure group for disaffected old-school Conservatives and assorted political oddballs - and, of course, the occasional clown who combines both attributes (no names mentioned, but I'm sure regular visitors will know which old 'friend' of this site I'm referring to, assuming the Robert Kilroy-Silk of the blogosphere hasn't flounced out of UKIP in a huff yet that is...).

[RobD]

I have to admit I was one of the 'nones' for this one. I would not seriously entertain voting for any of these parties so I did not feel comfortable selecting any of them.

To my mind this was a not a useful question, UKIP was always going to come out as the winner and to give them free publicty will only work against the aim of seeing a centre right government after the next election.

[Stewart]

I have to say that UKIP has a lot of support amongst my members. That is not to say they will leave (yet) or even vote for them (yet). They have a sympathy with them because they feel that they are standing up for our national interest and not seeling us out.

David Cameron seems determined to have his clause 4 moment in order to prove to the press that "The Conservatives have changed"- a change I do not believe is necessary with local members who have always been more down to earth and representative than DC realises (at least amongst my lot).

Change is crucially required amongst the leadership of the party and expecially CCHQ. It is they, not the grass roots who have created the media problems we have. It is they through a byzantine and opaque parliamentary selection process that is creating unhappiness amongst the loyal hardworking activists on the ground. The people who actually win the elections.

[Umbrella Man]

The persons doing UKIP's work Rob D are not our webbloggers but the Tory leadership and it ignoring the European issue.

[john yates]

Those disaffected Tory eurosceptics do not have to sign up to UKIP, they now have the opportunity of lending their support to the Speakout campaign which is attracting wide support from both Tory and UKIP activists. Speakout's aim is to get a referendum on returning vital powers from Brussels to Britain - not something alien to Conservative thinking. The more who sign up to its banner, the more pressure it can put on all parties.

[Cardinal Pirelli]

Mark Fulford - I think you're correct, it's uncanny how those with 'tory' in their name are the most critical of the party!

Anyone considering supporting UKIP should read up about their internecine squabblesm you couldn't trust that ragtag bunch to run a raffle never mind a political party. You'd have to be mad to support them.

As for Europe why focus on it it if it makes no difference to our vote (except maybe negative having seen polling figures on the issue)? Sometimes it's best to say little and then do what is best when in power.

(Cardinal Pirelli - not a cardinal and not even Catholic!)

[PJBuffham]

Editor ~ perhaps a further box could be added for those of us who are currently living overseas but have retained our Party membership through Conservatives Abroad

[Editor]

A VERY good point Pauline and a silly oversight on my part. That will be corrected for the next survey.

PS I hope you are well!

[D.Jones]

As an ex life time supporter of the conservative party, with the policies of the three main parties so similar it looks just like the Lib-Lab-Cons party. At the moment there are just UKIP and the BNP that have any sort of policies that this country needs. This country is fast becoming the dumping ground of immigrants that nobody else wants. Get out of the EEC now.

[Mark Fulford]

As an ex life time supporter

Are you dead then?

[Tory Loyalist]

Tory Loyalist, some time ago I came to a conclusion that people who write under particularly Tory pseudonyms are normally the exact opposite of what they claim.
____________________________________________________

Is that so Mark?

Well when you've been a member of the party as long as I have maybe you'll have some idea what you're talking about.

[Tory Loyalist]

(Cardinal Pirelli - not a cardinal and not even Catholic!)

__________________________________________________

So why don't you post under your real name then?

And before you turn that one back on me, the reason I use an alias is because I still hold minor office in the party and I am only too aware that the "anti-Cameron = treason" squad would be out to make trouble. I know somebody it happend to under Major,

But you have nothing to fear, surely?

Unless you are already looking to the situation post-Cameron...

[Editor]

This is getting bitchy. Back to the thread please >>>

[Paul Watkins]

UKIP -Nigel Farage - are currently writing confidentially to Conservative Councillors trying to elicit their current views on EU.

[clive elliot]

If we want to get UKIP-inclined people to vote for us, then in our manifesto we should offer a referendum on whether to continue as members of EU.

Would attract of lot of Labour and even Lib people, too.

[michael mcgough]

"Anyone considering supporting UKIP should read up about their internecine squabbles you couldn't trust that ragtag bunch to run a raffle never mind a political party. "

Better a few squables than having to pay back £35 million LOANATIONS.

2

[Scotty]

"The biggest real CCHQ Spy here is Scotty the fake Scotsman who clearly lives a very long way from his claimed home."
LOL and I claim my tartan pompoms!
Sorry Tory Loyalist, but I am Scottish and more likely to bump into Nessie than anyone from CCHQ.

[TomTom]

Have you seen this in The Times ? Our Muslims have another grievance now.........

Dead Russian spy to be buried as a Muslim
Philippe Naughton

Alexander Litvinenko, the former Russian intelligence agent poisoned in London, is to be buried according to Muslim tradition after converting to Islam on his deathbed.

The spy's father, Walter Litvinenko, said in an interview published today that his son - who was born an Orthodox Christian but had close links to Islamist rebels in Chechnya - made the request as he lay dying in University College Hospital.

"He said ’I want to be buried according to Muslim tradition’," Mr Litvinenko told Moscow's Kommersant daily.

"I said, ’Well son, as you wish. We already have one Muslim in our family - my daughter is married to a Muslim. The important thing is to believe in the Almighty. God is one.’"

[James Maskell]

Not a suprizing result at all. I went to Grammar school, understood the question, but still voted "None" as a political party has more than one policy...UKIP is not a political party. Its a pressure group. No other party is even close to my views.

As for the UKIP campaigns to Tories, it wasnt that confidential as its been commented on on weblogs quite openly.

[James W]

Why were The Green's not included in the survey?

[Sean Fear]

This poll is no surprise. I should have thought it pretty obvious from the European elections and London Assembly elections - not to mention talking to Conservative members - that very many Conservative members would view UKIP as their second choice.

I certainly take the view that - of the non-Conservatives parties - UKIP's views are closest to my own,

[Afleitch]

If asked a similar question, I would say SNP and they may well have one of my two votes for the parliament come next May.

[U21]

"What's more, earlier this year I discovered a little-known fact. UKIP have no rule prohibiting their members being members of any other non-racist party. As a result I was able to persuade two Tories-turned-UKIP to become joint members of both parties in order to fight the anti-EU corner on two front and to help me work against the fifth columnists in our party."

Tory loyalist, surely they cannot join both parties under Conservative Party rules?

[Daniel VA]

"Why were The Green's not included in the survey?"

The Editor assured me that was an error on his part. I selected Liberal Democrat instead, although their policy on Europe and home affairs is the political equivalent of smelling salts.

[Esbonio]

daniel at 1800 "I selected Liberal Democrat instead". Somehow that does not surprise me.

[Katie]

Does anyone else find it worrying that almost as many tories would go to the BNP as the labour party. I know nulab are evil and everything but come on.

On UKIP, its a single issue bunch of tory defectors, of course loads of us would go for them. Any port in a storm and all that.

Personally, Lib Dem by a mile. At least they are nice - deep down.

[conga]

Why does my browser (I'm not using explorer) have "transferring data from www.webcameron.org.uk" long after this page has finished loading?

[Richard Weatherill]

"Personally, Lib Dem by a mile. At least they are nice - deep down."

Do you have any evidence for this rather astonishing assertion, Katie? Have you ever been involved in a by-election fight against them?

[Editor]

Yes, DVA is right - exclusion of the Greens was my error. Exclusion of the English Democrats maybe, too!

I'm sorry conga that the webcameron thing is causing you problems. I think it might be connected to having the 'links cluster' in the right sidebar. Serves ConservativeHome right for trying to be so helpful towards the Conservative Party! Teehee.

[Katie]

Well OK, no. I just meant they aren't evil like the BNP is.
I have no experience of by-election fights of any sort, being only a baby tory (a DC convert - yes we do exist!). I certainly didn't mean to cause offence, I'm sure they are perfectly ghastly, and cheat loads.

[Daniel VA]

"daniel at 1800 "I selected Liberal Democrat instead". Somehow that does not surprise me."

Lol - you know too much, comrade.

Seriously though, I wouldn't trust them to run a bath, let alone a government, judging by the shambolic way they've run Cardiff Council, although in principle (odd word to use in relation to the Liberal Democrats) they're not too bad.

Oh dear, I've just dropped some organic muesli on my sandals :-)

[Esbonio]

Don't worry, Daniel, at least you don't have a beard.

[Esbonio]

Oh dear Katie (a lovely name, not like mine) says) "Lib Dem by a mile. At least they are nice - deep down." What is your evidence for that? Just saying nice things is not enough, especially if it leads to a right mess.

[Richard]

"Why were The Green's not included in the survey?"

For the same reason that the Communist Party of Great Britain weren't I suppose. The Greens are far to the left of Old Labour, their manifesto is all about state control, excessive political correctness, egalitarianism etc etc

[anon]

"Personally, Lib Dem by a mile. At least they are nice - deep down"
Kate dearest, if you knew anything about political parties you would know that of all of them, the Fib Dems are the ones who really deserve the nasty tag.

[Richard Carey]

Hi, Katie,

First of all, let me say it's always nice to meet new colleagues in the Party here and welcome them to the Conservative family (don't worry about old Uncle Fester over there in the corner...!)

I think I understand where you're coming from with the point about the LibDems, they are at least a mainstream party and however misguided are not in the same league as some of the more odious minority parties.

They are though, I have to agree with a few other posters, ruthless campaigners. It doesn't mean we have to treat them as sub-human though (I'll save that for the BNP!). It just means that we have to be on our toes for any unsavoury practices from any of our opponents and also learn from the LD strengths in local campaigning.

[TomTom]

Hindu

EDINBURGH: In the battle for cash-bearing overseas students being fought in British universities, Scotland is targeting India aggressively. A scheme offers possibly the ultimate prize to those who choose to read at a Scottish university: a chance to settle in Scotland.

The rather grandly named Fresh Talent Initiative allows any fee-paying international student to stay on and work in Scotland for up to two years without a visa or work permit once he or she graduates from a Scottish university. Government agencies will even help find jobs. Cynics say this effectively amounts to a "pay-as-you-go" immigration policy.

"Work doesn't have to be related to your studies, and you can even be self-employed," a glossy government brochure suggests. And, dangling more carrots, it adds: to qualify for the visa-free-permit-free regime "you do not have to show that you have stayed in Scotland for the full period of your studies... " No worries if you do not like to rush the decision: you can take up to 12 months to make up your mind whether you want to seize the "opportunity" to work in Scotland.

[Richard Weatherill]

Don't worry Katie - no offence taken. Certainly, by comparison with the BNP, the Lib Dems might be classifed as "nice". Misguided, perhaps, and dirty campaigners - but not evil. (The trouble with this political tribalism is that it's easy to lose a sense of perspective!)

[Richard Carey]

The trouble with this political tribalism is that it's easy to lose a sense of perspective!

Probably explains why our favourite "values-based" (pass the bucket) UKIP blogger saw fit to send me an email using just offensive (i.e. no ladies present!) language the other day.

Or he could just have been another nutter, of course...

Thanks for explaining that one, Richard!

[matt wright]

The problem is the word "closest". I admit I struggled with this question as none of them were "close". They were all miles away in my mind and I didn't want to pick any of them. If forced to pick one it could have been almost any ( I say almost as it would never be BNP) as they seem clustered in my mind but clustered a long way from the party I support, the Conservatives. Also within a number of the main parties are pseudo-conservative elements eg parts of new Labour and parts of the Lib Dems and also even parts of Welsh and Scot Nats. Those conservative lements should naturally be with us and since DC took over we have seen defections,

Matt

[matt wright]

Voting UKIP will just ensure Labour stay in power. The even more mad idea that this will be good as it will force the Conservatives to go further to the right is the politics of the mad house,

Matt

[John Coles]

There is no power on earth that will ""force the Conservatives to go further right"'.
The party is now mired in the swamp of the middle ground. It offers continuity of Blairism and "niceness". Voting UKIP will not have the least bit of influence on the liberal-conservatism now being so doggedly pursued.
Gaudeamus igitur.

[Tory Loyalist]

As most UKIP members are patriotic former Tories it is commonsense to bracket the two parties. Scratch the type of "Tory" who derides UKIP and you will generally find a TRG Eurofanatic.

The BNP are just another ignorant socialist party like the Socialists and the Lib Dems, however support for the BNP does provide a measure of the way in which successive governments have failed to control imigration and racial tension.

Maggie undermined the National Front by facing up to the problem. It's one of our party's current problems that - as Maggie would have said - Cameron is too "frit" o face up to the menace of immigration.

Andrew Pierce's magnificent dissection of Cameron in yesterday's Telegraph was accompanied by a host of letters from Tories complaining about the destruction of the Conservative Party.

Today we read the bleatings of just three apologists, one of which, surprise! surprise! is the appalling Francis Maude making feeble excuses for Camera-on's boycotting of the CBI conference in favour of a photo-opportunity in Iraq.

[ToMTom]

BNP does provide a measure of the way in which successive governments have failed to control imigration and racial tension.

Oh you are forgetting LAW & ORDER, lack of POLICING, emasculation of LOCAL Government; destruction of the LOCAL Economy; Centralisation of PLANNING in Bristol; nationalisation of SCHOOLS;

In short the dis-enfranchisement of the voter in his own locality

[Ken Stevens]

Hitherto a Conservative voter (Boris's constituency), I have just subscribed to a political party for the first time in my 60+ years -- the English Democrats. Tories are preoccupied with manoeuvring to reposition themselves to garner any votes going spare, rather than by professing any distinguishable political principles. And who wants a party whose leader needs a more highly paid guru to tell him which expedient to adopt next? I vote for leadership, not puppetry.

Oh, and while folk are mentioning grammar schools, mine had a plural and a singular apostrophe in its name, so clever ol' me. I won't confess that it also spawned Lord Triesman!

[TomTom]

that it also spawned Lord Triesman!

Communist-leaning property-millionaire and formerly head of the AUT

[SimonNewman]

Tory Loyalist:
"The BNP are just another ignorant socialist party like the Socialists and the Lib Dems"

Well the BNP seem to be a totalitarian party, so they're more like the Communists than the Lib Dems. OTOH many Lib Dem activists do seem to be a nasty bunch, nastier than Labour. I think with all parties the leadership is different from the activists, who are different from the voters. Lib Dems are said to be unusual in that the parliamentary party are centrist, the activists are leftist, and the voters are mostly to the right.

[Boris]

Although I was never a Conservative party member, my decision to not vote Tory goes back to the last General Election - why? There was an agreement between all 3 main parties to not mention Europe in their campaigns - why??

Almost all domestic policy now hinges around the EU. Just because all 3 main parties are pro EU (inc the Tories - I hear no desent to the contrary), the media hardly ever mention the EU anymore - no mention = no problem.

ID cards, national identity register, finger printing our children at school, road pricing, school curriculums, health care, I could go on and on - all have their roots and at least some interference with or by the EU.

The Governemnt are now scratching around for money for the NHS etc, etc- In 2007, the EU will cost the UK £100,000 per MINUTE for nothing in return.

Mr Cameron - offer us some sign of criticism on Europe or perhaps a referendum on continued membership. Until then, good luck, you do not have my support!

[Ken Stevens]

I fully support Boris re Europe.Without retention of national sovereignty, parties' manifestos are relatively meaningless.

(By golly, is this Boris my Henley on Thames MP, by any stroke of good fortune? No? Oh, pity!

[Richard Weatherill]

"Voting UKIP will not have the least bit of influence on the liberal-conservatism now being so doggedly pursued." (John Coles 00:44)

Well, I suppose it could ... but only if enough people were to choose to do it.

[Jim]

To the comment:
"Why were The Green's not included in the survey?"
Richard says:
"For the same reason that the Communist Party of Great Britain weren't I suppose. The Greens are far to the left of Old Labour, their manifesto is all about state control, excessive political correctness, egalitarianism etc etc"
However I personally know of at least one former Tory MP that wanted to stand as a dual Green/Tory candidate (although not approved to do so by either party) and a number of Tories who would consider voting Green if the Greens had a single leader rather than the semi-anarchist idea of having two principal speakers.

[Justin Hinchcliffe]

Jim, who is this person?

[Lynda G.]

Why don't you lot stop kidding yourselves and join the BNP?
UKIP have no real policies on anything other than being paid in Pounds rather than Euros.

http://www.bnp.org.uk/shopping/membership.php

[Ludlow_BNP]

I am still a Tory member but will not be renewing, I have joined the BNP and will fight for the only party that has the courage to speak up on core issues such as crime, immigration and Europe.
Shameron's Tories are a pale imitation of the party I grafted for in the 80's, its time people opened their eyes.

[Mikeemike]

I have read this thread with some interest. Not being a member or supporter, I am obviously not as well informed as I should be, so maybe someone can help.
1.Why do so many of you want out of Europe, when it was your Ted Heath that took us in (ON A LIE !).
2. What is your party doing to counter the Islamification of Britain and Europe? This must surely be THE most demanding issue of our time, and yet I hear nothing. If only the BNP have the nerve to stand up and be counted, why should I not vote for them?

[Tony Ward]

You could not get a feeler gauge between the Lib/Lab/Con now, they are like clones of each other. leaving me with no real choice but to vote for the only party that doesn't churn out PC crap and speaks the truth (do you remember that) come on BNP.

[Elenor Rampton - Barnoldswick]

I'm not sure as yet whether the BNP are the party for me. I've read their website and it all comes together very well, but there are still some questions I need to be answered. I know a lot of people feel the same way.
I agree with the person above in that the three main parties all seem to be singing from the same hymn sheet, and Cameron simply doesn't inspire me one bit.

[Carol _ Shrewsbury]

Unfortunately, I'd have to say that the Lib-Dems are probably the closest to Cameron's CONservatives - and the British National Party are closest to the genuine Conservative Party (R.I.P) that cared about British traditions and family values.

As a lifelong Conservative Party supporter,I feel totally betrayed and let down by the leadership.
Sadly, with Cameron's new direction, we will see our traditional support haemorrhage in next year's elections.

With a dripping wet 'New Conservative Party' and a moribund UKIP, I'm now seriously considering switching my support to the British National Party.

[Tieley Braithwaite - Kensington]

What policies do the BNP have other than mindless racism and Islamophobia? Do they have a manifesto? No, of course not. They're just a bunch of ignorant working class thugs.

[Anna Brierling - Norwich]

Tieley Braithwaite, as a member of the British National Party I thankyou for your kind comments.

The non-existent (2005) manifesto is here -
http://www.bnp.org.uk/candidates2005/man_menu.htm

Merry Christmas, and good luck with call-me-Dave and co.

[Rosemarie]

Thank you, Tieley Braithwaite, for raising my curiosity about the BNP with your strange comments: 'mindless racism', and, 'bunch of ignorant working class thugs'.
I have just spent a long, fascinating time perusing the website of the British National Party. Their manifesto is actually full of good, common sense policies. I find myself agreeing with almost all of them.
Reading their 'Your Say' letters is a great eye-opener, and reading their superb articles is very thought-provoking.
It is obvious to anyone that your comments are driven by either hate, fear, or ignorance of the truth of what has happened to our country.
NuLabour is an unprecedented disaster to Britain, and for decades I have voted Tory.
I truly cannot see the Conservatives ever being any better than NuLabour.

[Tieley Braithwaite]

Oh, really, Rosemarie!
If you had ever been a true Tory you wouldn't even bother to look at the BNP's so-called 'manifesto'.
There's nothing special about being white you know. In fact there are times when I wish I wasn't!

[Rosemarie]

Tieley, you state a great deal in your brief reply.
So, True Tories must remain narrow-minded and selfish, and not look around for constructive ideas?
Hmm, that does say a great deal about so-called True Tories, doesn’t it?!
You earlier ask:- ‘What policies do the BNP have other than mindless racism and Islamophobia?’
I suggest that you carefully read the BNP manifesto, as I have. It seems to be a very comprehensive Manifesto indeed.

It is fascinating to me that you say:- ‘There's nothing special about being white you know. In fact there are times when I wish I wasn't!’
I hereby state that your comments show, beyond doubt, that you are the racist.

The British National Party appears to be fighting to return Britain to a country of safety. Millions of our population want to be saved from being over-run by every criminal in the world who demands to come here to our desperately over-crowded little Island Nation. And then the immigrants demand that we support them, and suffer under them and their strange alien cultures.
The BNP also appears to be fighting to get out of the grip of overpaid, un-elected EU Bureaucrats who collectively cost our country multi-billions of pounds per year. That is one of my most urgent concerns, and I thought that UKIP was going to do some good there, but they are now irrelevant, and have proven to be as useless as the other three useless parties.
Who else can any responsible citizen turn to but the British National Party?

[Ludlow_BNP]

What really astounds me is the arrogant hypocrisy of the Tories on here, I say hypocrisy because we all know that most Tories do not like immigration or multi-culturalism and most Tories want out of the EU, in addition the Tories actually supported the BNP policy on the right of homeowners to defend their property, or at least they did under Howard.
The BNP manifesto, if you bother to read it, is closer to true Conservative values than anything Shameron offers and for this reason I find the comments of some on here rather amusing.
This myth that we are all a bunch of working class thugs is debunked by the number of middle class Tories ditching Cameron and joining the BNP. I count myself and four of my neighbours in this number and I know of FOUR Conservative District Councillors who share my view and have all considered defecting to the BNP in protest over Camerons weak liberal stance on the main issues. The only thing stopping them is fear of losing their seats and positions of status locally, what a sham, as I said before hypocritical.
The Tory party is finished, they will never win support off the Labour Party, the BNP are the only party able to do that and if the Tories continue to shift to the left it is only a matter of time before the BNP decimate their core vote.
I am ashamed of what the party I loved has become, I will from now on be working to ensure the BNP get a strong footing in Shropshire and from the message we get on the doorstep it appears we are very welcome.

[Tiely Braithwaite]

You are certainly persistent, Rosemary, and no doubt persausive to some. I've had a look at that 'manifesto' and alright it contains some reasonable points, but is it really genuine? I mean it's not the sort of thing I would expect from the fascist BNP, which is why I can't take it seriously. If it had been drafted by the Conservative party it would be a different matter.
As for me being a racist, that's quite illogical. I'm not the one intimidating ethnic communities by going on about outdated border controls or historical irrelevancies.

[Ludlow_BNP]

Typical hypocrisy, you agree with the policies but your arrogance cannot let you believe that the BNP are anything other than the thugs the media tell you they are.
I suggest you go to a local meeting and meet these 'nasty' people, I think you would be surprised, the last meeting of the Shrewsbury branch was attended by 50 local members of which nearly half were women.