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Grouchy post coming up:

most people don't care about due process so long as the right people are jailed or killed.

And it's comments like that which some days lead me to wonder if democracy isn't too precious a thing to put in the hands of the people!

I'm not sure how your hypothetical people would like us to determine the "right people" in that case - perhaps we could hold a phone poll in the Daily Mail?...

I think the killing of the woman PC in Bradford raises three issues for most people:

1) Why were her killers in the UK?

2) Why, in the absence of the death penalty, were they not given life without parole?

3) Why are Muslim women allowed to sail through immigration control without even showing their faces?

The case seems to symbolise so much that has gone wrong. A serious government would:

a) Tell all asylum seekers to stay at home unless there is absolutely compelling evidence that they were in serious physical danger as a result of political persecution (ie - NOT because they've fallen out with a neighbour over ownership of a goat and are worried that he might get violent).

b) Refuse British citizenship to anyone without a a ten year history of law abiding residence in the UK, save in the most exceptional of circumstances.

c) Deport any non-citizen who the police consider an undesirable - including, of course, anyone convicted of a criminal offence.

d) Bring back capital punishment for murder or, if lily-livered liberals can't stomach that, life imprisonment without hope of release.

e) Impose much longer sentences for violent crimes.

f) Tell Muslims that they either accept British cultural norms, where there is a conflict, or get out.

"The Conservative Party will enjoy sizeable and sustained leads when it acts as a coalition of the right and centre". - Editor

I believe you are absolutely correct in your assessment - although I would change the emphasis slightly: "...a coalition of the centre and the right".

Issue 4

ONE of the gang convicted of Sharon Beshenivsky's manslaughter was employed by a company directly funded by the Home Office.
Faisal Razzaq was earning £16,000 working as a "client liaison officer" for Caradon Estates, which has received thousands of pounds from the public purse since it was awarded a nationwide contract to supply housing for failed asylum seekers in June, 2005.


Trial

I think that the fact that people from Jack Stone to 'Tory Loyalist' continue to post here even though both seem to think that this site is overrun by their political enemies indicates that Conhome is the premier conservative blog in the UK today.
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Well actually I think that most of the time the site is pleasantly dominated by genuine patriotic Conservatives, but as we have yet another poll purporting to show a Cameron lead at the upper end of single figures, I suppose we can't blame some celebratory Cameroon for bringing all ten of his finger-puppets out in force.

Nice to know that someone didn't have to work today.

No; it's dear "Jack" who constantly whinges about the numbers of Real Conservatives on here. His recent post expressing the wish that Britain should become a one-party Cameroon state provides conclusive proof - if further proof be needed - that he is the artificial construct of somebody who's having a laugh.

I'm reliably informed that "Jack" is the work of some UKIP joker trying to scare Tory patriots into the arms of Nigel Farage. Shame he outed himself by bragging about it on the official UKIP forum but he's still good for a giggle, if only for the spelling.

Tory Loyalist I have never posted on the UKIP site so I am afraid you are wrong on that account as you are on so many others.
Tom Tom the thing you should realise is that not all crime is committed by immigrants and that all races have bad people who commit crime. I myself have known victims of crime in areas where there are many immigrants and all of those criminals who committed those crimes were white not black. I use to live in an area where there were a large immigrant population and more trouble was committed there by the white population than by the immigrants.
Immigrants are not responsible for the problems we have in this country politicans are.
David Cameron will improve the health service because he will unlike our opponents let the health professionals manage the health service and stop the politicans meddling and setting targets etc.
David Cameron will improve drug policy in this country by making sure that all addicts have the opportunity to come off drugs and we will have a drugs policy that is a mixture of carrot and stick and not all stick.
We are seeing the best opinion poll lead the Conservative Party have had for fourteen years because we are once again trying to appeal to the majority and not making it seem as if we are only interested in appealing to ourselves. We should be proud of the way we are trying to reach out to all sections of society, of all races, colours and creeds and not looking anymore as if we are a party of the past.

Very good news, it shows the consistent lead we have enjoyed for the longest period since we left office. It is confirmed by reaction on the ground in my area where it is clear that the broader appeal to floating voters and the more open forward-looking approach is liked. The secret now is to get the balance right, to keep some of the winning aspects of a more caring approach and combine it with some practical positions on the main issues. Also we need to use the good base we have created to build a very positive and inspirational idea of where our team wants to lead Britain. People are listening now because of the fresher image and modern outlook and there is everything to play for. Go for it Cameron, this is the greatest opportunity we have had since Margaret Thatcher came onto the scene,

Matt

Couldn't agree more, Matt - we have a hearing from the public, an opportunity to be looked at with a fresh eye by the electorate. "Grim Gordon" as I've just heard him called, has already been sized up.

We do need to do more, those of us on the ground need to make sure we're promoting the full breadth of the modern Conservative message in accordance with the Ed's "and theory". I think doing that actually gives us the chance to inject a healthy dose of localism into it, too, especially ahead of May '07.

The chance is there for all of us to try and ensure that a poll in the New Year breaks through the other side of the 40-point barrier.

I don't believe David Cameron is any further to the left than the Conservative Government led by Mrs Thatcher in about 1987. Mind you an awful lot has changed since then. We had massive house price inflation, concerns about city bonuses, worries about nuclear power and nuclear weapons, real fears of Russian spies knocking people off, a Labour shadow chancellor advocating redistributionist policies...
...actually what has changed?

Congratulations guys ! When the polls are this good - who needs policies ?

Joking apart, what happens when policies are developed ? Can parties get by without them?

They seem to in the Presidential US of A...

Yes, but as Gerald Ford proved the US will vote for any idiot. Mind you we've had TBlair for ten years so we can't exactly crow.

I think that these polls are somewhat meaningless for now, interesting only to us hacks. Once we are a year into Gordon Brown, and we have some policies to talk about, we'll be motoring ahead - and if we're not then there will be legitimate cause for concern. Until then the doomsayers should fook off!

"Yes, but as Gerald Ford proved the US will vote for any idiot."

But the US didn't vote for Gerald Ford. Unless, of course, you were referring to one James Earl Carter, Jr.

Yes, the key is for everyone to get stuck in magnifying the party strategy with local efforts and activities and then we can increase our lead. All politics is local politics in the end,

Matt

Good poll for us. Hope we manage to maintain this kind of margin over Labour in the run up to the May elections, especially if Gordon Brown does not take over until later in the year.

I don't believe David Cameron is any further to the left than the Conservative Government led by Mrs Thatcher in about 1987.
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If you seriously believe that, Ben, you clearly were not out of nappies in 1987.

These'll be the same opinion polls that told Kinnock he was going to win the 1993 General Election then.

Sorry typo, 1992.

Sounds like it Matt.

Let's hope Cardhouse holds a huge victory rally with the same result.

It'll be a DVD to shelve alongside such other favourites as Patten and Portillo getting their chips.

Tom Tom the thing you should realise is that not all crime is committed by immigrants and that all races have bad people who commit crime. I myself have known victims of crime in areas where there are many immigrants and all of those criminals who committed those crimes were white not black. I use to live in an area where there were a large immigrant population and more trouble was committed there by the white population than by the immigrants.
Immigrants are not responsible for the problems we have in this country politicans are.


Thanks for your core-dump of preconceptions again Jack Stone.

Immigrants are responsible for the overburdening of Education and Health...........maybe not it twee Southend but try Bradford or Leeds - try the shortage of school places for Slovak children; try the crime plaguing inner cities.

Try remember that WPC Beshinivsky was murdered trying to protect a Pakistanit Travel Agency in Bradford from a Somali gang and that it is criminals in the drug rackets (who are not all white) who are using guns in robberies.

Try and stop Colour-Coding Crime. Jack Stone is race-obsessed and programmed with BBC/Guardian stereotypes. Unlike Merrie Old Southend I have 120.000 Muslims round me in one of the largest concentrations in Britain - and you know what they are fed up of -- CRIME, ASYLUM-SEEKERS..........they get their mosques filled with Albanians and North Africans and they don't like it.

They have their house prices fall in a market where house prices are rising so they cannot escape to schools where their children can speak English because they cannot trade up each time NASS cascades more asylum-seekers into areas like Manningham, Girlington, Barkerend, Leeds Road.

You have not a clue Jack Stone down in Southend - try a real inner city. Get out of ypur dreamworld and into the real one, the one where millions of voters live. Southend 96% White with just 1.7& "Asian" - try it where Ann Cryer MP tells us

I thank my hon. Friend for that. Those women feel badly done by, not only because of their husbands, but because of the establishment. Such women are not given help. As has rightly been said, in such a situation they are told that they are a third party and I am told that I am. The issue has been considered, and it is mentioned in the report. We have been told that we will stop being treated as third parties and the young lady will be kept informed about what is being done to remove the young man.

In other cases, indefinite leave to remain has been granted. The young lady has dutifully filled in the forms and has got her husband indefinite leave to remain, on receipt of which he waves it in front of her and says, "Right, I'm off. I didn't really want to marry you. You're very stroppy and cheeky; I don't want to live with you any more, so I'm leaving. I shall be sending to Pakistan for another wife." Once he gets indefinite leave to remain, he has every right to sponsor another wife.

The man has to divorce the first one, of course. However, since he was married in an Islamic ceremony, he can divorce in an Islamic ceremony and go on to sponsor another wife to come here. That is extremely annoying for me and my constituent, who has done everything that she should have. She has abided by her parents' decision and brought the young man in. Often, she will have bought a house. She has kept him for two years and receives that stunning treatment.

We should at least consider saying that no one can act as a sponsor until they get citizenship. That would mean that the young man entering would have to wait five years after entering—three years after being granted indefinite leave to remain—to be able to sponsor a wife to come here. That would make him think a little more carefully before using the young ladies in my constituency simply as a way around immigration control.


Most of the young men and women who come in as husbands or wives are, in fact, economic migrants. As I said, I would prefer them to enter because they have a job rather than simply because they have a wife or husband. In respect of the comments by my hon. Friend the Member for Walthamstow (Mr. Gerrard), Keighley has some excellent examples—perhaps I should say poor examples—of people who are working illegally, or, in the case of the Polish, legally, for employment agencies or cheapskate employers. They are paid the minimum wage, but it does not end there. The employer makes deductions for the cost of housing and sometimes for food—any trick that they can get up to. Many legal and illegal immigrants work hard at some of the dirtiest, hardest, most horrible jobs but at the end of the day are paid as little as £2 or £3 per hour because so many deductions have been made from their pay.

Yes, but as Gerald Ford proved the US will vote for any idiot.

Gerald Ford was NEVER elected President of the United States.............only as a Senator

It's a very good poll, further evidence that David Cameron's leadership whilst not to the taste of everyone who posts on CH is rather striking a chord with the public, I don't agree with those who think it wouldn't have mattered who our leader was labour are now so unpopular that a tory poll lead is now inevitable.

In the run up to the 2005 general election, despite the unpopular Iraq war, the NHS in crisis, violent crime up, immigration in crisis, taxes up etc labour still enjoyed a poll lead, so let's give cameron some credit for making the conservative party more appealing to the electorate.

As I always say one poll whether it is good or bad is not worth getting excited about, what matters is the trend, the challenge in 2007 is going to be to try and turn that modest poll lead in to a significant one.

I agree with a lot of what Tom Tom says but the thing is that you highlight that immigrants have committed certain crimes but the fact is that fact is irelevant.
For every crime you can quote committed by an asylum seeker or immigrant I can quote you one I know of committed by a white person.
I don`t think race should be brought into these matters as I don`t think that a person`s race is important in any way when discussing crime, immigrantion etc.
As for Southend. Like all seaside towns it as taken more than its fair share of asylum seekers and immigrants. Its not just the inner cities who experiance the problems a large increase in the population brings.
Crime and poor public services hits everyone but they should be discussed without forever bringing race into it which unfortunatly some on this site are forever doing.
The reason for crime and poor public services are complex but they are cerainly only a little to do with the increase in immigrantion that we have seen in recent years.

Jack, you preach about how Cameron is going to improve the health service and how great things will be. But how do you know that? What are we even going to do with health? WE dont have any substantial policy apart from "trusting professionals", which as we all know from Labourspeak, is a meaningless phrase and shows that we are handing power to the Unions.

You dont like it when people dont cheer Cameron on and start accusing us of things we arent guilty of, like bringing the EU and immigration into every thread. I dont know why...could you please explain why you do this?

you highlight that immigrants have committed certain crimes but the fact is that fact is irelevant.
For every crime you can quote committed by an asylum seeker or immigrant I can quote you one I know of committed by a white person.

Jack you have no idea who is in this country - explain to me why Jama had 5 convictions for firearms offences, and 21 convictions, but was granted a British Passport BEFORE he came to kill WPC Beshenivsky - and then was allowed to leave Britain ?

Explain to me why Britain has Somali gangs when Somalia never belonged to the British Empire


I can explain it Tom Tom. Under our asylum laws, committing a serious offence in a foreign country, or indeed this country, is considered good grounds to be allowed to remain in Britain - if you would face persecution for it if you returned to your country of origin.

As well as execution or torture, persecution can mean not having access to a lawyer.

My own view is that this is the politics of the lunatic asylum. If a criminal comes to this country, I couldn't care less if he was flayed alive on his return to his home country.

Universal

"....when Somalia never belonged to the British Empire"

A fairly large chunk of it was (unless you define Somalia as the ex-Italian part and accept Somaliland's secession, which unfortunately nobody does).

I accept both your points - that only British Somaliland was ours run through the India Office.............and that Somalia did not exist until the Italian satrapy was glued to the British protectorate to form a basket case in the Horn of Africa.

The fact remains that many Somalis came to Britain when the Dutch has a crackdown on benefit fraud and this Jama character came with his mother with people-smugglers having paid for entry - that this family was one of the criminal clans in Somalia and related to Siad Barre who interestingly fled to Nairobi from which the Jama family made their way to London and asylum in the great basket-case in the North Atlantic

James if you don`t think immigration and Europe is discussed on nearly every thread on this site I think you can`t be looking too closely.
As for the idea that people should be refused entry into this country because there country of origin was not a part of the British Empire all I can say is how far back you go back with that one. Should Americans be allowed to claim political asylum here because there country was once part of the British empire. What nonsense!

Who are these idiots who think Davis or Hague would do a better job?

For God's sake, give Cameron some credit for changing the public perception of our party!

There are clearly cranks in every party, and this just proves we have our fair share too.

As for the idea that people should be refused entry into this country because there country of origin was not a part of the British Empire all I can say is how far back you go back with that one.

You mis-spell "their" again and completely miss the point.

Why do people with no historical connection to this country come from Kenya to Britain and claim asylum, which once granted, the mother exits the UK leaving the children here ?

I can think of many other staging posts for asylum between Kenya and England, and do not see why Britain should become ever more congested with people who have no cultural affinity with this country - and the Somali gangs in London are testimony to this fallacy

http://shafisaid.wordpress.com/2006/01/30/yob-culture-2/

Have you noticed that the better our party does and the better the polls, the more personally insulting "Tory Loyalist" becomes?

Good Lord! I never thought I should find myself AGREEING with TomTom! He is spot on re Bradford. I also have experience of the place, as I did some weekend work in the nursing homes of Girlington and Manningham.
It also applies to Huddersfield,where I was a Health Visitor in an "Asian" area. Mum and Dad ruled OK. Usually, they owed a favour to some relative back "home" and daughter was a negotiable asset.
I once tried to get Douglas Hurd to appreciate the problem marriagable asian daughters had, at a Tory bash when he was foreign secretary. I had a metaphorical pat on the head, and an extremely patronising "But my dear, what if you wanted to marry an australian?"
With that experience in mind, I have nothing but admiration and respect for Anne Cryer. What she is doing takes guts.

Feral>/a>

Why do we need to import criminals and give them indefinite leave to remain ?

Mugshots

the thing is that you highlight that immigrants have committed certain crimes but the fact is that fact is irelevant.

Posted by: Jack Stone | December 21, 2006 at 09:32

You mis-spell "their" again and completely miss the point.
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I think this is part of the carefully-crafted "Jack Stone" persona. If it weren't he'd stop doing it pronto.

Just as Jack's far-right mirror image Alf Garnett supposedly came from Canning Town so "Jack Stone" is carefully placed in Southend, armpit of Essex. Very good. Clap, clap.

What a pity that "Jack", no doubt very wisely, consistently refrains from ever giving us any inside information on his local association, past activities and offices held within the party etc.

The fact that he avoids such a high-risk temptation shows that the creator of "Jack" is a past master in sockpuppetry.

I used to vote TORY but feel that David Camerons Conservative Party has ditched its Tory values! I am sorry but I shall be voting UKIP from now on.

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