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Why should anybody be banned from this site unless they are abusive or obscene.

Are you suggesting there is censorship, Chad?

"The new leader of UKIP has said that sitting MPs who have already signed up to BOO will not be challenged at the next general election. That makes sense"

If that's correct what's the problem with UKIP?

The problem is not UKIP, many of who are former Tories, but the Eurofanatic traitors in our own party.

They should be removed immediately.

I'm a wholehearted supporter of 'Better Off Out'. I've never subscribed to the view that it was the 'right wingers' in the 1992 Parliament that scuppered the 'Titanic' - it was the pro-euro lefties like Clarke and Heseltine that did the damage! LJ @ 11:19 am is correct- get the Conservative policy right (ie- get out) toward the European Union and the need for UKIP will evaporate.

I was banned for none of those reasons John. Don\'t take my word for it, as I noted, I\'ve received mails from Tories with whom I have had many strong arguments here who have stopped using the site since I was banned for no apparent reason.

And for the record, I only promised to stop posting if Tim settled his TPa bet as he was dragging his heels, and I sensed a ban coming anyway, so thought i would at least seek to get the TPA its £100.

I doubt the editor sits reading this site all the hours of the day and I have no doubt he will not let a ukip recruiter be a poster on ConHome, he knows how hard some of us are working to elect Tory councillors right now, we do not need our enemies taking over our forums. Noble bans "anti-ukip trolls" from his own forum (where most of the comments in any thread come from him) and he needs to take his own medicine. This is Conservative home.

So John, it\'s not me saying that there is now active censorship here, but Tory members themselves who have no reason to support me but don\'t like (in their words) a \'rigged jury\'.

Usually my comments are deleted within seconds of appearing, so clearly someone IS sitting here reading comments and deleting them.

This clown Tory T has a lot to say about "UKIP Trolls" etc

Take a look at his/her "email address" - [email protected]

That address is as phoney as he is and he's no Tory either.

Have just returned after delivering the last Christmas message leaflets in the ward. Most Conservative activists are busy preparing for next Mays local elections. UKIP do not show on the radar at all. UKIP policies have no relevance to local elections.

Just ignore them.

>>Noble bans \"anti-ukip trolls\" from his own forum

A lie.

Around half the members of my site are not ukippers. The Tories who have approached me since my ban here who are reading this know that I have actively encouraged them to join my site in order to attack our arguments. I want dissenting voices. It creates balance.

Sorry that doesn\'t fit your agenda Tory T.

John Irvine, what's the point in targetting potential new MPs then? The sop to sitting MPs merely retains the status quo (a labour government), one that UKIP appear to be happy to retain.

If they extend that to any constituencies where candidates support BOO then they would have some credibility at least. As they don't then they are clearly there to help re-elect a labour government.


There's nothing stupid about UKIP running against Conservatives, any more than there's anything stupid about the Green Party running against Labour and the Lib Dems.

Plainly, there are several hundred thousand voters who feel so strongly about the EU that they're prepared to vote for a Party who want to leave it. Since the Conservative Party is not in favour of leaving the EU, why should they vote Conservative?

Where UKIP are stupid is in their endless infighting and squabbling.

Like others here, I find Jack Stone offensive and ignorant in equal measure.

..because candidates will lie their arse off to get elected Cardinal. Nothing binds them to BOO once elected, but those principled MP\'s who have damaged their career to stand up for their principles deserve support.

Don\'t believe me? Ask Andrew Woodman about Tory MEP\'s who talked sceptic but turned out to be philes.

Once bitten...

Sean
>>Where UKIP are stupid is in their endless infighting and squabbling.

Every party has that. The Tories are clearly no different. What a weak criticsm!

It's clear from these posts the Eurofanatic fifth column in our party are rattled. Mid you its also obvious that "several" of these posters are the same person.

UKIP and the BNP don't need to get more than 5-10% of the vote. They won't win but the anti-Conservative pro_EU Socialist leader of our party's megalomanic dreams of seizing power will be smashed.

If that's the quickest way to get rid of Cameron so much the better.

Let's get Davis or Hague in and then purge the party of these traitors.

I would then like to see UKIP agree to be taken over by the Conservatives so we can work together. Personally I would like to see Nigel Farage in the shadow cabinet - maybe a future Tory leader.

Mr Irvine, the majority of those who are annoyed are those, like myself, who are anti-EU and conservative voters. The eurofanatics would be happy to see a labour EU supporter voted in so are very happy with UKIP's spoiling tactics.

There is also a real danger that a split conservative party will result in perpetual leftist government for the UK. That you and others cannot see that is one of the real dangers to the party.

John,

We\'re a completely different political party. Our aims and policy differs from the Tory Party in so many ways that will never change.

Far from UKIP being taken over by the Tories, all the tory die-hards now have, having abandoned values, is the dream of electoral victory. Take that away and you have nothing.

Even William Hague has been alleged to have said that a 4th defeat would mean oblivion for the tory Party.

Clearly UKIP, with its passionate values-based approach would grow off such likely infighting following a likely fourth consecutive defeat.

We are thinking long-term. Personally I think the winner of the next election will be inheriting a poisoned chalice, and it will help UKIP whatever the result.

This thread illustrates why you were "about to be banned" before you agreed to quit - LIAR. While we wait for Tim to log on and keep your worthless word for you, care to comment on your pro-Labour stance?

"http://www.ukiphome.com/comments.asp?sid=735

"We should be working now, in every possible seat where our votes could result in a defeat for a Conservative candidate.

This will help Labour and the LibDems this one time"

and

"If we do this, then for one more Labour term, there will be the real chance of a Tory split"

So what UKIP really wants is "one more Labour term"?

You're not anti-EU, you admit plainly that you are working to elect Labour and Liberal Democrats. No wonder real ukipers like Devil's Kitchen can't stand you. You suck up all the air and make every thread about you. you're a troll, and I know Tim will keep his promise on you.


Chad, infighting is far worse in UKIP than the Tories. After making a breakthrough at the Euro elections of 1999, a bunch resigned to form the Reform Party. After making a breakthrough in 2004, a bunch resigned to form Veritas. After Nigel Farage's election as leader, one third of the NEC resigned.

A party hangs together or hangs separately.

Oh for Gods Sake this thread is rapidly descending into yet another Chad Noble ego trumpet blowing excercise.

As Chad is leaving this country all I can say is hurry up and go.

PS Anybody want a whip round to buy a one way ticket?

Tory T. Since you are an anonymous poster with a false email address why should anybody take your comments seriously?

You are almost certainly an alias of one of the other Eurofanatics posting right now under a different name.

Chad please explain why you think you are banned. I didn't hear about these earlier events.

No honest contributor should be banned.

Hi John,

I am posting today thanks to someone showing me an anonymous proxy. My regular IP was blocked some days ago.

I received lots of sympathy from the most unexpected places, but all to a man, were values-based Conservatives unhappy with Project Cameron

This is an extract from just one mail from a regular here who has previously (I think) never agreed with me:

I hadn’t realised until today that Tim actually banned you. It’s unjustifiable. You mostly kept on topic, always had a point to argue and I don’t remember you ever being abusive to anyone. I’m not interested in participating in stage-managed distortion of conservative opinion. I believe I have strong arguments and I don’t want them weakened by a rigged jury. So, while I remain Conservative, I’m not longer ConservativeHome.

Did you use bad language? Abuse posters?

If not it's disgraceful that you should be banned. I've checked your website and its obvious you are a real person.

John

My link where Chad advocates electing Labour for another term is in the post - just click on it, his words, not mine. Though I agree nobody should take his argument seriously.

Big Ted

"Oh for Gods Sake this thread is rapidly descending into yet another Chad Noble ego trumpet blowing excercise.

As Chad is leaving this country all I can say is hurry up and go."

Chad is a liar who promised to quit posting, and Tim did ban him, because as you rightly say all threads he posts on become about him. He's sneaking around the ban by using a guest computer but he will be gone when Tim gets here. This is a man with no honesty, no respect for his own word, and no netiquette - he "outed" fellow UKIPer Devil's Kitchen by using his real name and imperiling his job.

Even at blog level ukipers love that infighting.

Even William Hague has been alleged to have said that a 4th defeat would mean oblivion for the tory Party.
I don't think so, Labour lost 4 successive elections in a row and yet came back, both main parties have an identity crisis - I think that the Conservatives will progress but lose 3 more General Elections (although it is possible that by the third they might lose with more votes than Labour), both main parties will revive over the next 10 years, Once Gordon Brown finishes as Prime Minister I think open warfare will break out in the Labour Party, the Conservative Party ultimately will abandon it's position of being in Europe but not run by Europe and return to a more strongly Social Conservatism with anti-Welfarism a central theme and govern for decades - if the Conservative Party doesn't develop a new clear idealogical position then it will decline and UKIP could well replace it, or there might even be a Liberal Democrat government at some point.

Re Chad:

Chad made a promise to stop commenting and I was glad when he made that promise as he was using thread after thread to promote UKIP. I noted to a number of people how I respected Chad for keeping his word but he recently reappeared - his word broken.

I do not mind people from outside of the party engaging with Tories on this site but not if they consistently divert threads on to their pet obsessions.

Thank you Editor. It is disheartening for those of us actually knocking on doors for the Conservative party to see the premier Tory site used as a recruiting tool for those trying to elect our Labour opponents.

"I work in the Pub Trade as a senior manager I visit 20-30 pubs a week up and down the country,the one common theme I hear in conversations everywhere,be it Leeds or London, is that the Labour AND Tory party are history, I really and honestly believe that the the electorate are going to kick ass at the next election,and I for one will be putting my cross next to the UKIP guys, in the real hope that with them we have a chance of saving our once great country from the EU madness." (Greenjacket 21.16)

The above comment from Greenjacket is the most relevant in all the froth on this site.

Millions share this view - listen to 25/34 year old white men and women of all classes. We are going in the wrong direction. UKIP is relevant to policy debates because the longer we stay in the EU the less say we will have on any policy areas e.g since we gave up our veto on transport policy, 60 tonners have become commonplace in our crowded roads. Arguing that it is better to stay on the inside and 'change' things is the excuse of the collaborator throughout history. Why are so many so called conservatives paid to be on Regional Assemblies when as a policy we would disband them ?

I have just resigned as an official of my local Association because - although I will continue to vote Conservative - I will not defend to others the current shift to the leftist Big State philosophy. I firmly believe that both of the main parties will get a kicking at the next election.

don't think so, Labour lost 4 successive elections in a row and yet came back, both main parties have an identity crisis - I think that the Conservatives will progress but lose 3 more General Elections (although it is possible that by the third they might lose with more votes than Labour), both main parties will revive over the next 10 years,.

Self-Delusion must be comforting.

Labour was kept alive with £200 million of trades-union funding...........that will not happen again.

The Party System is fragmenting within a first-past-the-post system which leaves two main parties elected by ever-fewer votes and increasingly unrepresentative.

The large bloc of unrepresented voters - whether Abstention Party (the biggest party) or Minority Parties outside parliament means increasingly people will not regard Parliament as representative and people will simply opt-out.

That is the real problem facing the parties - that they are playing in an old theatre to ever smaller audiences whilst the public decides to ignore that theatre.

RodS

The Socialist state of the 60s and 70s was not overturned by a "new party" but by the Conservative party led by some people that convinced the country they could do a better job. Once in power, over a period of elections we transformed the country.

No new party has "won the country" for more than 50 years.

A new party is like the SDP a futile waste of time which actually helps keep in power the opposite of what they are trying to do.

Splitting the vote for a right of centre party is just plain stupid.

What's the answer to the question?

How many onnoxious far-left supporters of Cameron have been banned from this site?

This thread is the perfect example of why the Robert Kilroy-Silk of the blogosphere was banned from this site.

He twice broke his word about not posting at this site any more, and after the Editor's patience and restraint was finally exhausted to the extent that he was banned, he showed a complete lack of respect for the Editor (who he frequently mocks over at his own site) by flouting that ban in order to parade his ego.

He is a malign, disruptive influence and the fact that he has the cheek to accuse the Editor of seeking to exclude 'dissenting voices' whilst he forces people to donate to UKIP if they wish to comment at his site tells us quite a lot about just the sort of man he is.

Even by UKIP's desperately low standards, he is an utter embarrassment.

Benin, chuckle at your email address!

John Irvine said "What's the answer to the question? How many onnoxious far-left supporters of Cameron have been banned from this site?"

I expect none because the far left do not post on here advocating voting LD or labour whereas UKIP people post on here advocating a vote for "anyonebutconservative".

The only people advocating another party on here are UKIP folk.

UKIP is a single issue party. It exists to get Britain out of the EU.

The raison d’être of UKIP is getting Britain out of the EU. Once Britain was out there would be no reason for UKIP to exist.

To pretend otherwise Chad is either being ignorant of the history and reasons why UKIP exists or being deliberately disingenuous.

UKIPs other policies appear to have either been ripped off the Conservative 2005 General Election Manifesto or from high profile political pressure groups.

So true. When did you see a Labour poster come here from Labour home and recruit votes or attack Cameron? Or any LibDemers?

It's always ukip and 'I'll never vote Tory again' and it's a scratched record.

ukip got 40 votes total in the Horsham by-election that they chucked everything at. They are a busted flush. Priti Patel and Philip Hollobone, Roger Helmer and Chris Heaton-Harris, Dan Hannan and Nirj Deva, are people with the power and the position to fight EU control of our lives because they are/will be in Parliament and/or are MEPs. Not one of these principled politicians is a ukip member. When the whip was removed from Roger Helmer, he did not join ukip. He knows a busted flush when he sees one.

Meanwhile even as ukip collapse look how we are doing in local by-elections. The other Tory diary thread gives

Con 39 Lib 30 Lab 24!

I ran the figures into Baxter for a laugh and posted them on that thread, they give a Con majority of 98.

When John Major signed the Maastricht Treaty in 1992 he effectively signed the death warrant of the Conservative Party. Like a murderer on Death Row U.S.A. they know the end is coming ,but dont know when.Meanwhile many members drift away looking for a new home.The hierarchy must be aware of this but cannot commit the party to withdrawal from the E.U. because it would mean that they would have to accept responsibility for the massive mistake of joining the E.U. in the first place. Their own egos are far more important than the well being of this country.

Perhaps now is the time for Dave to apologise for his childish insults of UKIP so we can work with them, give them free run in a seat or two as our partners, then we will surely be returned to government.
UKIP are not going to enter into some kind of electoral pact with the Conservatives while the Conservative Party continues to oppose withdrawing from the EU and they are going to be looking towards fielding more candidates at the next General Election.

Come on Folks, Can anyone convince me as a non committed voter who I should go with at the next election, if not UKIP? Like the vast majority of the sane working class, I have seen the country I have served both as a soldier and a police officer slowly slip away to into the position it is today, that I am almost too embarrassed to say I am British, let alone English for fear of being laughed at and called a Mug by the likes of the French and Spanish, who unlike us, stand up united are afraid to express their contempt for the EU.
I look at the British people as a sleeping lion, who through general apathy has let many thing go in the belief that nothing could be done to change things, now that lion has had enough, and is very very likely to turn around and bite very hard and very painfully the master that has been kicking him for so long.
Do the Labour and Conservative Parties have there heads stuck so far up there own asses that they cannot see what’s coming, we,the people, have had enough ofthe lies from both sides,who are both more than prepared to turn us into another "Borough" of Europe, UKIP may be small,but from Acorns....
They have the heart of that sleeping lion that I for one will roar for as well. You politicos have been warned!!

It's obvious that Tory patriots such as Roger Helmer have been betrayed by Cameron who reneged on pulling us out of the EPP.

The Tory Party is currently polluted by Eurofanatic traitors. Since Cameron took over they've been in the driving seat.

It's good news that UKIP will not challenge Tory Patriots. If they wipe out a few traitors they will be doing us all a service.

Roger Helmer is a highly committed Tory who has recently shown up to campaign in the constituency I live in.

Real fighters of the EU menace vote Tory, actually get elected, and get things done. Whiners vote UKIP in order to get Labour elected and provoke a Tory split. Remember that ukip site said what they were fighting for was "one more Labour term"

well in this Labour term we have seen our rebate slashed and our veto surrendered on many issues - if ukip want to work in marginals for more of the same they can count this Eurosceptic out. "One more Labour term" will damage Britain dreadfully and a real patriot would try to prevent it, not work for it like ukip.

To look at you all!

I remember when the Tories were pragmatic on Europe - it was under your esteemed Maggie! To her credit, for the first 8 years of her time in office, she was pragmatic on Europe, fought for the UK interest but was instrumental in moving the EU forward.

She went a bit loopy towards the end, but that was because she was annoyed at herself for giving away more than she intended in the SEA.

Major was pragmatic too - he fought for a generous opt out from Maastricht, an action that Parliament supported in vast numbers both before and after the negotiations.

The trouble for you lot came in 1992 - a new intake of Tory yoof who were guilty about Maggie and thought that her last couple of years was the way she carried herself on Europe.

It is these new 1992 Tories that rebelled over the perfectly reasonable Maastricht Treaty, with opt outs. Major was right: they were harking back to a golden age that never was.

Now, those 1992 nutters control the party. IDS was a perfect example. Traitor Redwood should never have been let anywhere near the Shadow Cabinet after 1995. You are in the grip of Euro-paralysis, and although Cameron has papered over the cracks, you will still have trouble later on if you won't accept that the party needs to go back to being the pragmatic party on Europe that existed before the 1992 intake.

If you had done that, UKIP would be nothing, and you would be on the road to Government.

Let me call a spade a spade.

In Hammersmith and Fulham we have won the borough back from Labour after 30 very long years. The manifesto was led by tax cutting: in two terms we should get council tax down to the level of Wandsworth. The rest of the agenda was cleaning up graffiti, drunks, dumped lorries, more police on the streets - everyone here can write the list.

This is a true Conservative agenda. Smaller government, low regulation, freedom, etc

And true to their word the new Council is going hammer and tongs to do what they said they would do and the results are already obvious on the streets – even the greater police presence. I for one am delighted.

Cameron was notably absent from the election literature and he did not turn up here until we had won. Near the end of the campaign Cameron and his transport spokesman announced they were in favour of the congestion charge. Did they really want us to win here? They had to back track pdq.

This borough was won despite Cameron not because of him.

People vote for policies and for people they can trust - they don’t vote for parties who say we are Conservative vote for us. Or we are Labour vote for us.

Until the Conservative Party goes back to its principles which crucially focuses on an independent country free from the EU it will be under ever increasing pressure from UKIP, from every other party, and from Conservative voters with nothing to vote for who stay at home.

JR you are wrong to talk in terms of parties – let us have some principles – we know you have them.

So, if we work with UKIP, we win the election, but if we fight them, we will most likely lose.

So what do we do? We insult and attack them, cosy up to LibDems and they respond even more determined to fight us than ever.

It seems that we are just as guilty for keeping Labour in power because we refuse to give an inch to UKIP. If we refuse to give an inch, we can hardly expect them to do the same, and yet they have with their BOO strategy.

UKIP are making us look like valueless chancers.

UKIP would be ecstatic with one or two seats, and we would be in government with a small c-r ally. I guess it is us who have chosen to keep Labour in power.


I would issue an invitation to all well thinking patriots to come over to UKIP if for one reason only: Let us bring back full democracy to the country, and ensure that ALL British laws are passed only by British politicians in a British Parliament. This is my so-called sound bite I use whenever I am tackled while campaigning on the streets of Lewisham. And it never fails to make an impression. If it can work in Lewisham, it can work across the country.

C'mon. We have more in common than what divides us.

Sorry Jens, but I\'m happy as a Conservative Party member.

However, as I have already suggested, we could almost guarantee victory by working with UKIP and almost guarantee defeat by not.

I didn\'t vote for Cameron and his attack on UKIP, for me, was the single moment I knew we would not win the next election.

All we have to do is offer them (well I hope they won\'t be greedy) one or two seats then there will be no splitting and centre-right values will be in government.

But Cameron has decided instead to attack UKIP and work with a party, the LibDems that will lead to even more defections.

Tory Realist,

We can only ask. But do keep in mind that as things stand, no one seems clear within the Conservatives what policies will be unveiled to take Mr. Cameron into Number 10. And I think I can speak for a lot of typical electors: It's not the issue of the EU that people dislike the Tories on. It's the indecision over it. And this unstable embracing/rejection of past Tory achievements is what turns off people. Australia's John Howard is Conservative in every sense of the word, has ten years of triumph with an agenda that would probably turn off Mr. Cameron.
UKIP may have its wobbles from time to time but at least we are one on our direction.

Jens,

So could you work with us? If we offered UKIP free run and support as allies in two of your strongest seats in return for not standing against us in other key marginals, would you agree to that?

If it meant a Tory government with one or two UKIP MPs.

Could you put values first in this way?

Given that the Tory policy is shifting onto Lab & Lib Dem ground, I am effectively disenfranchised by not having a realistic differentiation of main-party ideology to vote for. Thus it doesn't really matter whether Conservatives or Labour win the next General Election, as law & policy making lies increasingly with Brussels and neither of those parties will do anything about it. Oh there will be some boasting in the electoral playground about defending national interest but that will evaporate as soon as the braggarts are hauled up before the Euroheadteacher. My vote will now go elsewhere (presumably UKIP, unless English Democrats stand in my constituency) so long as the Tories continue to connive at loss of national sovereignty.

I'm quite easygoing in aspects other than giving me back control of my nation, as I accept that one can't possibly expect any party's manifesto to coincide with one's personal views on every topic.Thus, within that parameter, DC can hug as many hoodies as he likes!

Why does the party have such a problem with the principle of retaining/regaining sovereignty, whilst otherwise shifting towards centre-left? If you're fearful of mounting a referendum on Europe, that indicates that you are aware of what the outcome is likely to be.
Love Europe/Hate EU.

Why does the party have such a problem with the principle of retaining/regaining sovereignty,

It's called going with the flow - Thatcher didn't. The easiest course is simply to float along and not make any waves

If I were leading a conservative party and I was worried about the impact the UKIP would have on many constituencies other than those where sitting backbenchers are BOO signatories the first thing I would do would free my shadow team and whips from the ban on signing up to BOO and let them out of the closet.But I would have to be the LEADER and not be merely the chosen one delivering others' agendas.

In the real political world on my area we never mention UKIP let alone waste time attacking them.

They of course do attack us, so the venom is one way.

But they are in decline and as Mike a lib dem at pb.com says can you really respect these folk?

http://politicalbetting.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/07/ukip%20caravan.JPG

Was not going to comment on this thread because I prefer to ignore both UKIP and Chad.
But I could not help but notice that Tory Realist sounds remarkable like Chad and seems to have the same keyboard problems as well?

Anon, are we attacking Chad because he wants to work with the tories, or because he wants to help Labour, or both?

I\'m getting a bit confused with what we are supposed to be attacking him for.

But they are in decline and as Mike a lib dem at pb.com says can you really respect these folk?

Quite agree, HF - there's a large number of UKIPpers that are at the same point on the spectrum of political wierdness as the end of the Liberal Democrat party that knits its own sandals.

I particularly agree with your point about positive local campaigning - minority parties and organised independents get a foothold where mainstream politicians are not shown to be demonstrably delivering - it's of course a responsibility of you, I and our colleagues to help illustrate this this to people.

the first thing I would do would free my shadow team and whips from the ban on signing up to BOO and let them out of the closet.But I would have to be the LEADER...

The BOO deal they offer (nobody really thought that acronym through, did they?) I don't think really gets us anywhere. They're "promising" to stand aside for MPs who sign up to BOO (whether you think that desirable or not is another question) where our elected members have the benefit of incumbency to help offset a challenge. They won't stand aside for PPC's in any case regardless of the their views, so this doesn't help us one jot in the target marginals that we need to win. So much for their offer of "co-operation".

Besides, once a member of parliament has signed up to BOO, don't you think UKIP will do everything in their power to publicise "Tory MP yields to UKIP request"? If that story gets legs, you believe they won't stand a parliamentary candidate anyway? And in addition, why are these people saying they want to offer an alternative broad policy agenda when they'll supposedly stand aside for anyone who supports EU withdrawl? Doesn't quite ring true, does it? Same old faces, same old obsession, same old UKIP.

Personally, I think don't believe that "leadership" is shown by capitulating to the demands of your political opponents.

Tory Realist,

You say:

"So could you work with us? If we offered UKIP free run and support as allies in two of your strongest seats in return for not standing against us in other key marginals, would you agree to that?

If it meant a Tory government with one or two UKIP MPs.

Could you put values first in this way?"

I cannot use this forum to commit UKIP to anything without a discussion with the leadership first. I'm sure they would want to see if the Tory leadership would be agreeable to such an arrangement (unlikely at this time) or whether it was disillusioned MPs wanting to cross the floor. Either way, we would have to see what was on the table before committing to any kind of answer.

Do we need a reason?

Well for all the denigration and ignorance UKIP is supposed to accept as its convoluted birthright, we'll go on our merry way and do the work we need to do: Bringing back full democracy to Britain so all our laws are passed by British politicians in a British Parliament. This should have appeal for EVERY political party.

Now please excuse me, I'm gonna watch the X Factor!

"Anon, are we attacking Chad because he wants to work with the tories, or because he wants to help Labour, or both?

I\'m getting a bit confused with what we are supposed to be attacking him for."

I am getting confused with the fact that Chad, Tory Realist and NicolaH all seem to need to put a \ before a '

Thanks Jens. The fact that you would even consider to work above party politics shows that you have the right attitude.

As we are both aware, the Cameron team will keep on attacking UKIP and keep blaming them for splitting votes when it is their strategy of attacking the c-r that created the whole situation.

I\'m certainly not putting any \'\\\' in my text anon

Well a big thanks to the Tories for attacking UKIP and keeping us in power.

"But they are in decline" UNTRUE
Membership is increasing rapidly.Local Associations may not notice as the many Tory activists now joining UKIP tend to let membership lapse rather than resign.As I am sure you are most aware Associations keep lapsed members on the books so the UKIP political grag effect is not easily and immediately detectable.
" can you really respect these folk? "
I would not expect nor want respect from those that insult us.At least we believe in something beyond gaining a majority at Westminster and are not holding our hands out for yet more state funding..

Warning! This video is not recommended for Tories of a sensitive disposition!

http://video.google.co.uk/videoplay?docid=4666365540978173629

Chad Noble and Tory T are one and the same person. It is really pathetic and sad for Chad to post pro tory messages as Tory T and then reply as Chad Noble!

If you don't believe me search through the messages and look for the use of / instead of '

Chad you sad loser - how STUPID.

It would be interesting to see if any of Tory-T's comments appear on UKIPhome?

Keep fighting guys! You are doing our work for us. That's the next election in the bag for us.

Apologies to Tory T - I meant that Chad and Tory Realist are one and the same!!!

Yes we are all stupid here in UKIP

I personally was stupid for 20 years while I served My Queen and Country believing I was actually defending it, BUT alas it was being ripped out from under my feet.

I was stupid to only bet £10.00 in the GE for UKIP to win. Next Time I shall bet £100.00

Cos next time WE WILL WIN...

http://voteukip.blogspot.com/

Wow 162 Comments on this thread!I wonder if John Redwood realised he would generate that much heat!
I do wonder 'though if we (the Conservative party) are worrying about very little. It does seem to me that UKIP are getting virtually no coverage outside the 'political anorak' blogs, the launch of their tax and education manifestos passed without comment and they are still known as a single issue party. I suspect they will do well in Euro elections and abysmally in other elections.
The fact remains that every word John Redwood uttered was true,no one has been able to gainsay him.
O/T I do think the Conservatives should devise a proper strategy to deal with the BNP who I think in some areas may prove a far greater threat to us than UKIP.Just saying they're racist and isn't that bad is not nearly enough.

Just saying they\'re racist and isn\'t that bad is not nearly enough.

No, particularly when that attack is being effectively used against the Tories.

Just seen UKIP Mans post. I will take your bet UKIP Man and give you better odds than a bookie. If you really want to make this ludicrous bet email me.

LOL thank you Big Ted! I assure you I am not Chad.

Chad/Tory Realist/Nicola would be sad enough to do that and you caught him bang to rights with use of /!

also, Chad bores on endlessly about "values" on his site, readership two men and a dog, and Tory Realist uses the exact same language

Well I'm confused as that character doesn't come out when I am typing. Is it this site?

Goddnight Chad

http://www.ukipman.co.uk/

Please visit UKIP Man's website - click on UKIP MAN & UKIP MAN on the left hand side.

There you will find a fruitcake in a bizare outfit!

A picture speaks a thousand words.

STUPID!

Malcolm,

You say:

"The fact remains that every word John Redwood uttered was true,no one has been able to gainsay him."

It depends on what you judge as truth. He has no means of predicting the future anymore than he knows the words to national anthems. UKIP will not split any Tory vote that is no more marginal than it is for Labour. Your so-called dyed-in-the-wool Blue safe seats that weigh, not count, votes shouldn't worry about UKIP...or do they now? Especially considering the seepage of disgruntled traditional supporters. And if we are so stupid, so racist, so bumbling, stumbling and inept, why has your Mr. Redwood deigned it even worth his time to dedicate his apparent first post to us? And if it was all over bar the count, why has this topic generated as much debate as it has? Are a good number of the comments trying harder than necessary to convince core Conservatives that the good ship Cameron is on an even keel when the facts should speak for themselves anyway? Gainsay, indeed.

Why is this thread still being dominated by talk of you-know-who?

The one thing the ridiculous egomaniac (copyright: Iain Dale) craves is publicity, and even though blatant sockpuppeting by posing as 'Tory Realist' or 'Labour Troll' would be plumbing new depths, even for him, surely the best way to counter that is just to ignore him?

It is amazing how much Europe splits the UK Party System and how hard the main parties fight to keep the issue off the agenda - Labour has as much to fear from the EU issue as the Conservatives.

By keeping the issues of Immigration and EU off the agenda the parties are marginalising themselves, but they cannot help themselves and so the party system is dying across Europe - look at Germany and the shrinking base of both SPD and CDU.

The political parties are dissolving as they become more attuned to their apparatchiki and less attuned to the voters. The Revolution that began in 1989 in Central Europe is now being experienced in Western Europe as people disown the political establishment

It's amusing to see the "Tory" Europhiles slogging it out with UKIP in a seedy mudfight that parallels the Tory/UKIP election battle of 2005, where around 28 UKIPers sent Tory candidates crashing to defeat.

Amusing because the Cameroons firstly reveal their slavish committment to the EU, and secondly their terror that UKIP and the BNP may yet cause them to snatch defeat out of the jaws of...well, defeat (but they will have their little fantasies)

The mesage is that the Cameroon mafia is touchy, humourless and above all running scared.

They're running scared because the main reason they want Cameron to win is because there could be "something in it for them".

Sadly those sinecures, knighthoods and other goodies suddenly look to be going right down the toilet.

Scratch a Cameroon and you will invariably find a venal and selfish placeman.

Togo Noodle you are right, nearly did not bother highlighting the glaring similarities with you know who and Tory realist. I suppose it will now mean a really vicious attack on ConHom and conservatives in general on his own site.
By the time Labour Troll popped up I was laughing out loud and tempted to post a comment like "no real conservatives were used in the attempt to hype up UKIP"
"Just saying they\'re racist and isn\'t that bad is not nearly enough." that \' is really annoying though.

Did I call you or your party 'racist,bumbling,stumbling or inept' Jens Winton? I think not. Why don't you instead of misrepresenting me try to argue why John Redwood might be wrong. I don't think you can.

Malcolm,

I never said you did call us those things otherwise I would put them in the quotes from your post. Your leader calls us racist and your A-Lister James Cleverly calls us fools. The other `honourifics' are titbits that bob up and down in the flotsam of abuse that defines the analysis of UKIP.

And Mr. Redwood's comments? Look at my earlier post at 18:24 today

http://www.ukiphome.com/comments.asp?sid=1264

Look Chad praising a post by Tory Realist - I think his opening comments say it all!

Quite amusing that tory loyalist is the least loyal to the conservative pary that I know of on here. Some sort of Orwellian joke surely.

Enough I think!

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