Saudi Arabia's funding of Islamism

I recently reported on an excellent speech by Paul Goodman MP which drew attention to the danger of Islamism (as distinct from Islam) within Britain.  In the Commons yesterday, Michael Gove MP highlighted the Chancellor's feeble efforts to seize the assets of those people and organisations linked to extremism.  His short speech went on to highlight the role of Saudi money in financing extremism within Britain.  I publish two key quotes below but you can read the full speech from here:

"There are some 1,600 mosques in Britain, most of them exemplary houses of instruction that provide spiritual nourishment to our fellow citizens, and that teach them in a tradition that all of us would think admirable. However, there are mosques—some with direct relationships with Saudi Arabia—that do not cleave to the moderate mainstream path taken by the majority of British Muslims. I shall mention two of them. One subject of concern is the East London mosque, which is one of the largest in Britain. Its president, Dr. Muhammad Abdul Bari, is the chairman of the Muslim Council of Britain, but the speaker invited to open the mosque, Sheikh al-Sudais, had preached sermons in his native Saudi Arabia in which he described Jewish people as pigs and monkeys. He has called Hindus idol-worshippers to whom it would be wrong to speak sweetly. That is an example of Saudi influence raising profound concerns.

An even more profound concern arises in connection with the plans, in east London, for the erection of the largest mosque—indeed, the largest house of worship—in the country. It is intended to accommodate between 40,000 and 70,000 worshippers, and it is estimated that it will cost between £100 million and £300 million. The mosque, which is being built by an organisation called Tablighi Jamaat, raises profound concerns, not least because that organisation has been described by French intelligence as an “antechamber of fundamentalism”. Two of the 7/7 bombers had direct links with the Tablighi Jamaat mosque in Dewsbury. Richard Reid, the shoe-bomber, had links with the organisation, as did John Walker Lindh, the so-called American Taliban. How can an organisation that, according to the Charity Commission, records an income of just £500,000 a year, afford to build a mosque that will cost anything between £100 million and £300 million?"

Comments

[SimonNewman]

Gove:
"It is my contention that we need a thorough and bipartisan investigation by the House into the foreign funding of extremism in this country."

I think rather than a lengthy investigation, if we are serious about this we need simply to ban foreign funding of the expansion of extremist Islamism in this country. And to be effective this would require banning foreign funding of mosques and Islamic charities in the UK unless an effective means can be developed to distinguish extremist from non-extremist funding. As Gove noted, the funding of extremism originates primarily from Saudi Arabia and to a lesser extent from other Gulf states, but money can be easily moved around so it appears to come from elsewhere.
I expect that this would be too 'courageous' a move for the government to make.

[Drew SW London]

I think you're right about Governmental "courage", Simon. We can already see Riyadh chucking its weight around, warning the SFA that any investigation of old arms deals will cost BAE workers dear.

I rather fear that to the House of Commons and the House of Peers we'll soon need to add the House of Saud, which trumps the others.

[Stow it Gove]

Or:

There are at least 1,600 media outlets in Britain, most of them exemplary organs of a free press that provide news and comment to our fellow citizens, and that teach them in a tradition that all of us would think admirable. However, there are newspapers —some with direct relationships with NewsCorp —that do not cleave to the moderate mainstream path taken by the majority of British Tories. I shall mention two of them. One subject of concern is the East London-based Times of London, which is one of the largest loss-makers in Britain. Its foreign mastermind, Dr. Lupert al-Digger, is also owner of the notorious warmongering Weekly Standard, but the writers invited to contribute to the paper have published story after story doing damage to the Tory Party. Labour has been backed, Ashcroft has been smeared, Hague has been undermined, and, without warning or apology, Tom Baldwin has been published. That is an example of Austro-American influence raising profound concerns.

An even more profound concern arises in connection with blah blah blah

Michael Gove: wrong on Iraq, and still at it. No shame, no sorry, no good.

[Spot the Objective Ally of Al Qaeda]

'Stow it Gove' must be a pretty sick puppy if he thinks Rupert Murdoch is a bigger menace than the people who butchered 3000 people on 9/11 and 50 more on 7/7.

Michael Gove points out the problem of terrorist financing - 'Stow it Gove' promptly attacks him. Go figure.

[TomTom]

Let us not forget it was Prince Charles who invited the Saudis to finance Finsbury Park Mosque; it was the great and the good of German politics who were present when the King Fahd School was opened in Bonn even though it is a hotbed of anti-Western vituperation.

The Saudis long ago learned how much Western politicians cost to buy, and they have been able to fund all manner of front organisation in Britain..............we bribe them to buy our weapons; they bribe our politicians to give them access and planning permission

[aristeides]

I drove past the mosque pictured above at the weekend. It has separate entrances for men and women. I feel rather ignorant but is this a normal feature of mosques in the UK?

[SimonNewman]

The majority of mosques in the UK don't allow women to attend them, so no it's not a normal feature.

[SimonNewman]

"Michael Gove: wrong on Iraq, and still at it"

He can be wrong on Iraq and yet right about funding.

[Michael McGowan]

So will the Government be using its new anti-discrimination regulations to force mosques to allow women to attend? After all, it seems keen to use them to force Catholic adoption agencies to endorse same sex adoptions.

[Spot the Objective Ally of Al Qaeda]

The Government - like the Conservative Party - is all over the shop on how to deal with the Islamist threat. One minister sucks up to the (Islamist) MCB, another criticises the MCB (the UK affiliate of Jamaat Islami) and makes friends with the (moderate) British Sufi Forum. David Cameron writes that we have to make a distinction between fundamentalists and moderates, then Dominic Grieve attends a rally organised by the (Islamist) Muslim Brotherhood affiliate, the British Muslim Initiative.

We are caught between ignorant tabloid 'all Muslims are potential terrorists' ravings on one hand and rank appeasers who think anyone who's not actually letting off bombs on UK soil is OK on the other.

Only a handful of MPs get it. We are fighting a virulent anti-western ideology called Islamism that, while based upon a twisted interpretation of Islam, is more political than religious. Some Islamists (eg - Al Qaeda, Hamas) use violence, others (eg - MCB, Sheikh Qaradawi) are mere propagandists but all share a determination to see Islam triumph over the west (and the rest) through a combination of political and military means.

It's time to educate ourselves.

[Michael McGowan]

Indeed. Especially as we now have an authoritarian political class which, increasingly on the supposed right as well as on the left, hates the liberal values of the enlightenment. Hence its commitment to political correctness.

[SimonNewman]

"It's time to educate ourselves."

I think ignorance is at the heart of it, as well as wishful thinking - like drawing a distinction between Sinn Fein and the IRA, distinguishing between violent and non-violent Islamists is distinguishing tactics, not goals. Our leaders are desperate to locate the "Moderate Muslim", and being in a position of profound ignorance generally grasp at whatever Muslim Brotherhood front-man they're presented with (Tariq Ramadan seems very popular currently). Looking for the moderate Wahabbist/Salafist is like looking for the moderate Sinn Feiner, and just as silly.

[Stow it Gove]

Yeah, "the Objective Allies of Al Qaeda" are those people who disagree with Michael Gove on the Middle East. Neocon policies have been a great success in Iraq, and are making things better every day.

[Spot the Objective Ally of Al Qaeda]

"Stow it Gove" changes the subject - again.

No appetite for fighting Islamism at home, SiG?

[ToMTom]

like drawing a distinction between Sinn Fein and the IRA, distinguishing between violent and non-violent Islamists is distinguishing tactics, not goals.

Read The Times today - how mosques are used in Iraq

[Mark Wadsworth]

Late in today, have read posts, pretty much agree with general comments, esp. Simon Newman's analogy about looking for a moderate Sinn Feiner - oops, isn't that supposed to be Tony Blair's legacy?

[Stow it Gove]

Poor old Gove, how he must shudder with creepy golem like Objective up there rushing to his defence. Objective - if you want to defend Neocons in trouble, try Conrad Black. There's changing the subject for you.

[George Hinton]

Nothing new there.
Saudi Arabia has been exporting its pretty virulent Islamic faith, Wahabism, for many decades.
One only has to look at the 9/11 bombers and see where the majority originated from.
Another reason for the Saudi's to be getting sniffy is BAE's slush fund and bribes on military contracts. The Saudi royals have been washing in Bribery and Corruption since the year dot. You don't do business in Saudi unless you can afford the advance commissions to get to see somebody.
Time we ceated a level playing field, if Christians are not wecome to pray and practice in public in Saudi or elsewhere then no more mosques, niqabs, burka's et al in our country.
We have a history of tolerance and have undertaken our religious reformation, something that an intolerant Islamic faith is yet to experience, though the civil war in Iraq, which pitches shia versus Sunni is a start.

[TomTom]

Saudi Arabia has been exporting its pretty virulent Islamic faith, Wahabism, for many decades.

Interesting article in The spectator by Stephen Schwartz wondering if the Wahabbis killed Hariri in Lebanon - I did not realise he was the Saudis fund manager

[Jorgen]

Melanie Phillips brings Gove's excellent speech from yesterday in full, along with her comments.

[TomTom]

Saudi

[tired and emotional]

Sadly the violent intolerant Islam is the mainstream - any 'moderates' that exist are the extremists as far as the Koran is concerned. Mosques and imams should be licensed and those licenses subject to review and revocation if funding and preaching is found to come from or foster Wahahbi,Salafi or fundamental readings of Islam.

[Tory Activist]

"The majority of mosques in the UK don't allow women to attend them, so no it's not a normal feature.

SimonNewman"

What an ignorant fellow indeed.

Most Mosques in Britain have separate sections for Men and Women. Women do attend Mosques on a regular basis.

Please do not insult the intelligence of others on this site with your baseless comments and repetition of stereotypes.

[Jorgen]

A quick search reveals that an organisation called AIM says (I have no idea who they are or if the info is reliable):

"There are around 1600 mosques in Britain. Well over a half do not allow women access to worship"

[John Moss]

The way to attack the extremist islamist ideology is by pointing out to every left-wing media apologist for Hamas/Hezbollah/Al Qaeda etc that the beliefs of those who lead and follow this view are racist, sexist, homophobic and barbaric to animals.

Surely these are the four greatest sins on earth in the minds of our "liberal" friends and to see them squirm as they try to rationalise their backing of those whose only saving grace, (in their eyes) is to be opponents of Israel/USA, is a sight to behold.

[Jorgen]

Yes, that is why the lefties invented political correctness that makes it "racism" (though Islam is not a race) to call them racist, sexist, homophobic and barbaric to animals.

[TomTom]

Surely these are the four greatest sins on earth in the minds of our "liberal" friends

Only in the sense that The Left are united by only what they oppose..............very few have a positive outlook..........most are just railing against personal demons by associating with a "cause" and feel a buzz by being part of something

[Jon White]

Now that we have had the myth of WMD's exposed, retrospectively the War in Iraq is being justified by the removal of a tyrannical, corrupt, and murderous regime.

Well yes, that's exactly what it was.

So why are we so friendly with the equally abhorrent House of Saud?

[Sam Wright]

Spot on John

Also I sincerely hope the conservatives strongly oppose any application for planning permission for that East London monstrosity.

[Tory Activist]

"A quick search reveals that an organisation called AIM says (I have no idea who they are or if the info is reliable):

"There are around 1600 mosques in Britain. Well over a half do not allow women access to worship"

Posted by: Jorgen"

I am well aware of Sunny Hundal's Asians in Media organisation. I have read articles on that site for more than a year and every article concerning religion whatever religion it is has been slanted against faith communities.

Almost all the AIM writers are not Muslims so I can not see where this figure has come from.

I speak from personal experience, I have never seen or heard of a men’s only mosque in my life and I aware of most of the Mosques in Manchester and various larger ones nationwide.

As opposed to quickly googling a few words to reply to another poster I have been researching this area for years and I myself have actively campaigned for change.

I do not doubt there are men only mosques but they are neither the majority or in large numbers. To add to that I am sure even those Mosques which take that viewpoint (which is their right) are coming under a lot of pressure from many others in the British Muslim community.

The politics of hate will always be represented by individuals like Simon Newman who try to enforce stereotypes of communities and put them down through ignorant remarks but I would urge the majority of all decent and sane minded Conservatives to avoid such extremism and hatred.

"Yes, that is why the lefties invented political correctness that makes it "racism" (though Islam is not a race) to call them racist, sexist, homophobic and barbaric to animals.

Posted by Jorgen"

Islam is not a race but the vast majority of British Muslims are South Asian so everyone knows what "race" any hate speech is aimed at.

You sound like a fan of hate speech Jorgen, blankly calling any “race” the terms you named dehumanises them.

That is one of the processes that occurred to the Jews of Germany before eventually the Holocaust happened.

“Spot on John
Also I sincerely hope the conservatives strongly oppose any application for planning permission for that East London monstrosity.
Posted by: Sam Wright “

You have not even seen the plans or architects impressions of the building (not been released yet) and the building is already a monstrosity.

Clearly it is not the building you have a problem with but British Muslims as a whole.

[Tory Activist]

"A quick search reveals that an organisation called AIM says (I have no idea who they are or if the info is reliable):

"There are around 1600 mosques in Britain. Well over a half do not allow women access to worship"

Posted by: Jorgen"

I am well aware of Sunny Hundal's Asians in Media organisation. I have read articles on that site for more than a year and every article concerning religion whatever religion it is has been slanted against faith communities.

Almost all the AIM writers are not Muslims so I can not see where this figure has come from.

I speak from personal experience, I have never seen or heard of a men’s only mosque in my life and I aware of most of the Mosques in Manchester and various larger ones nationwide.

As opposed to quickly googling a few words to reply to another poster I have been researching this area for years and I myself have actively campaigned for change.

I do not doubt there are men only mosques but they are neither the majority or in large numbers. To add to that I am sure even those Mosques which take that viewpoint (which is their right) are coming under a lot of pressure from many others in the British Muslim community.

The politics of hate will always be represented by individuals like Simon Newman who try to enforce stereotypes of communities and put them down through ignorant remarks but I would urge the majority of all decent and sane minded Conservatives to avoid such extremism and hatred.

"Yes, that is why the lefties invented political correctness that makes it "racism" (though Islam is not a race) to call them racist, sexist, homophobic and barbaric to animals.

Posted by Jorgen"

Islam is not a race but the vast majority of British Muslims are South Asian so everyone knows what "race" any hate speech is aimed at.

You sound like a fan of hate speech Jorgen, blankly calling any “race” the terms you named dehumanises them.

That is one of the processes that occurred to the Jews of Germany before eventually the Holocaust happened.

“Spot on John
Also I sincerely hope the conservatives strongly oppose any application for planning permission for that East London monstrosity.
Posted by: Sam Wright “

Sam Wright has not even seen the plans or architects impressions of the building (not been released yet) and the building is already a monstrosity.

Clearly it is not the building you have a problem with but British Muslims as a whole.

[Jorgen]

You sound like a fan of hate speech Jorgen,

No, but I am a great believer in the freedom to critisize a religion. I also very much believe that political correctness is one of the most dangerous idea around.

[TomTom]

So why are we so friendly with the equally abhorrent House of Saud?

Because the relatively liberal Saudi regime is preferable to the rabid fanaticism of the Wahabbi clerics..............just as the Shah of Iran was preferable to the Islamofascists who have run Iran since 1978

[jorgen]

In any case it may be too late to do anything about Islamism in the UK.

[SimonNewman]

"The politics of hate will always be represented by individuals like Simon Newman who try to enforce stereotypes of communities"

I don't think MPAC-UK, who are campaigning to allow women into British mosques, have a vested interest in lying about this.
As I understand it, and as stated in their "Women Only Jihad" tv show on Channel 4 recently, some mosques in the UK allow women, most don't. If you have some contrary evidence I'm happy to hear it.

[Tory Loyalist]

Islamofascism is a menace to Britain and to the civilised world.

It's time to lift the Islamofascism stones to find out what's under them. Special Branch was originally formed to investigate Irish terror. We need a new branch to deal with this menace.

Gove is right to warn of the dangers to Britain, Israel the US and the rest of civilisation. I wonder what he thinks about Cameron's vacillation on this issue.

[SimonNewman]

"I speak from personal experience, I have never seen or heard of a men’s only mosque in my life"

Contrariwise, I've seen a lot of mosques in London and I've never seen women using any of them, but this is just ancedotal.

[Sam Wright]

The channel 4 program showed that 60% of british mosques do not allow women and this is confirmed on the mpac website
http://www.mpacuk.org/content/view/2927/34/

"Sam Wright has not even seen the plans or architects impressions of the building (not been released yet) and the building is already a monstrosity.

Clearly it is not the building you have a problem with but British Muslims as a whole."

There was an artists impression in the paper yesterday actually. And yes I am opposed to an extremist group setting up in camp in London in a massive mosque. Especially in the light of 7/7. Even local muslims have signed a 2500 strong petition against it! We will not deal with the terrorist threat by putting our heads in the sand in case we offend someone.

[SimonNewman]

'Tory Activist' wrote:
"The politics of hate will always be represented by individuals like Simon Newman who try to enforce stereotypes of communities and put them down through ignorant remarks but I would urge the majority of all decent and sane minded Conservatives to avoid such extremism and hatred."

I find this mildly offensive BTW, especially as I'm sure I've written far worse things than repeat MPAC-UK's (apparently) factual statement that most UK mosques don't admit women! Are you really saying that the Muslim Public Affairs Committee is guilty of extremism & hatred _against_ Muslims?!

[Jon White]

TomTom @ 07.04:

So why are we so friendly with the equally abhorrent House of Saud?

Because the relatively liberal Saudi regime is preferable to the rabid fanaticism of the Wahabbi clerics..............just as the Shah of Iran was preferable to the Islamofascists who have run Iran since 1978

There are many words that can describe the Saudi regime. Liberal (relatively or otherwise) is NOT one of them.

Your argument appears to be that they are the best of a bad bunch, and we support them because they are better than the fundalmentalists. In other words, my enemy's enemy is my friend.

What a dusgusting way to approach foreign policy. Immoral. Also, proven NOT to work - did we not arm Saddam in the 1980's when he was at war with Iran on exactly the same principle? Look where that got us.

[Sam Wright]

Irsq would be much better off now with Saddam still in charge. Sometimes you have to choose the best of a bad bunch, its based on the reality not a pipe dream

[TomTom]

Your argument appears to be that they are the best of a bad bunch, and we support them because they are better than the fundalmentalists. In other words, my enemy's enemy is my friend.

What a dusgusting way to approach foreign policy. Immoral. Also, proven NOT to work - did we not arm Saddam in the 1980's when he was at war with Iran on exactly the same principle? Look where that got us.

Morality and foreign policy do not mix too well. We do not own the world, and imposing our ideological position (for that is how your morality appears to many) on others can be expensive.

What happens if China does not like your "morality" and decides to protect Saudi Arabia ? Why should this country which cannot even impose its own values in its own country be able to swagger around the world imposing governments it chooses ?

It can only be our national interest that makes us risk our national existence.

I do not want Bin Laden to control Saudi Arabia and yet that is his goal. Iran wants to control Saudi Arabia.

One thing we can guarantee is the we will never control Saudi Arabia - we have not managed to control Iraq yet we did in 1932 and in 1941.

The world does not run on morality but on power.

[TomTom]

rsq would be much better off now with Saddam still in charge. Sometimes you have to choose the best of a bad bunch

I agree with the sentiments but not the example. Saddam would have developed his A-bomb and we should have faced a nuclear stand-off.

It is increasingly clear to me that a nuclear war will be fought - once the Dutch proliferated nuclear weapons to Pakistan it was impossible to prevent.

All the major countries prior to India who had acquired nuclear weapons had seen the devastation of conventional warfare and had to clean up the mess.............they were unlikely to start another..........