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It's helpful to know who The Guilty Men were.

So 8 Conservative MEPs voted in favour of the report altogether.

Meaning that 19 of our MEPs didn't vote in favour of the report.

I'd say that sheds a completely different light on yesterday's article that the UKIP sympathisers were getting so excited about, wouldn't you?

Here's an interesting hypothetical scenario.... Suppose - just suppose - for a moment that a mistake had indeed been made, say by an advisor, and the MEPs had not been made aware that the offensive phrase was in the report - and also just suppose that a hawk-eyed person amongst the "Famous Five" HAD spotted it - can anybody tell me why on earth they would not have alerted the rest of their colleagues so they would not fall into the elephant trap? As I say, a hypothetical scenario.....

Thanks for the update. We can now contact our MEPs that voted for it.

But what is Francis and William doing about the pro-Euro Kirkhope?

The 8 just do not belong as MEPs and I am not a B.O.O. supporter.

Glad to hear about Nirj.

The is a message from fellow sound MEP Geoffrey Van Orden on the other thread, which explains why he wasn't on the no list.

Geoffrey Van Orden MEP was on his way back to the UK to speak at the Basildon & East Thurrock Dinner along with the Rt Hon Michael Howard MP, so he was not able to vote on the ECB Report. Had he been there, you can be assured he certainly would not have voted in favour of anything that recommended the euro - he is a foremost and consistent supporter of the Pound.

I don't buy your hypothetical scenario Sally. Even it those yes MEP's were aware of the offending line, I suspect they would still vote yes.

I've dug up the full text of the motion that was voted on. Click!

Fair enough Andrew - I did say it was hypothetical!

It seems to me that this is nothing more than a set of comments and recommendations about the ECB annual report. It isn't appalling legislation by any stretch of the imagination and the biggest scandal is that we pay millions of pounds for this pointless hot air.

I'm not in the slightest bit bothered about this and I'm bordering on being a supporter of B.O.O.

Thank you Mike - very helpful!

"The policy of the Conservative Party in relation to the euro is clear: we are firmly committed to keeping the pound. Nevertheless, as the European Union in general and the eurozone in particular are our largest trading partners, we are ever vigilant of the need for the euro's stability, since this directly affects Britain's prosperity. "

In other words - nothing wrong with making sure the euro is a stable currency in those countries which already have it or which want it - but we still don't want it here. Puts a different complexion on the matter, doesn't it?

And here's some other, even more hypothetical questions:

(a) if it turns out all the abstainers missed the vote because they were truant in the UK having dinner (see Deva, van Orden comments) do we think we're getting value for money from the European Parliament?

(b) if this report is anodyne pointless hot air why are our MEPs being whipped to vote on it?

William I think that's a little unfair to the absent MPs - after all the House of Commons has a "pairing" system to enable Members to attend association dinners etc. - why should MEPs not have a similar dispensation?

They were Conservative party functions William. I think their are hundreds of better examples of not getting value for money from the EU.

On the subject of the EU, I was watching the ITV central politics programme last night which was talking about the EU. The report kept talking about the money the EU gave Birmingham for regeneration. Not once did it mention that it was out money to start with.

According to a reply I have received from Charles Tannock, "traditionally we UK Conservatives abstain on ECB Reports as we are not in EMU". Why is it that the whipping was changed?

Get a grip.

It doesn't matter.

Mike A:Get a grip. It doesn't matter.

Au contraire, Mike. This is one of the most significant, world-shatterring stories to have emerged in the last 25 years. Civilisation stands teetering on the brink of the abyss, the storm clouds of armageddon gather fretfully o'er the horizon, the forces of doom rally their strength, the four horsemen of the apocalypse are slipping the feedbags off their nags' noses, pestilence ravages the land, and, um, it looks like rain again and yet at such a time, several Conservative MEPs, an august vocation in life commanding the highest dignity and receiving the widest respect and admiration, at such a time I say, they had a moment of madness and chose to [vote for the euro][skived off early for the afternoon] (delete as applicable).

You think it's bad now, just wait til Hinchcliffe turns up. Then you'll know what a sense of proportion failure is.

Any way, it's Friday afternoon. Have a heart.

So 8 MEPs voted AGAINST Party Policy. 5 voted FOR and the Cameroons here breathe a sigh of relief!!! What for? The Federalists went their own way as always. The fact is a majority voted against the party.

You have to ignore the abstainers / absentees because apart from a couple you can't second-guess them. (There's one who would definitely have voted anti-party policy if she'd had the chance) The Federalists are in a majority in our MEPs always - that's why Kirkhope is leader. The whole place is a nest of vipers.

John Bowis.....

There's a shock....!

Just a small mistake, then, certainly not the first and equally certainly not the last ... as I recall ca 1998 all the Tory MEPs pushed the button in favour of a discussion paper advocating the introduction of Corpus Juris, a single legal system for the EU which would lead to the abolition of habeas corpus, and the introduction of prolonged detention of suspects without charge, and the abolition of trial by jury and the double jeopardy rule. But of course they didn't mean it!

A pox and plague on all their houses.
I find it unbelievable that these MEP's would vote in favour of the Euro being imposed on the UK, when they are very well aware of the general feelings of antipathy for Brussels in the country.
It is all very well for the comment that there are too many votes in a short space of time and that you are sometimes unable to follow the proceedings or keep up with the paperwork.
But, this is a democratic process, allegedly, and it is high time that MEP's imposed some measure of control on the apparatchiks, and demanded enough time for each bill to be properly debated and dissected.
The apparatchiks are using this process to feather their beds and to usurp the democratic process and impose their autarchic will on 100's of millions of people. Hitler, Stalin, Lenin and Napoleon are no doubt laughing their balls off at our stupidity.

The real question is why is the UK sending representatives to the European "Parliament" in the first place

... Meanwhile, back at the Ranch, the MEPs have been getting on with their work....


Gosh, "European Parliament backs Conservative proposals for cutting fraud and waste in the European Budget" Maybe my memory is at fault here, but wasn't it in 1999 that the whole Commission had to resign over just this, and fraud-buster Kinnock was sent in to sort it out? Just how long do you think we can be strung along by one cosmetic exercise after another?

Yes Denis and it was the Conservative MPs who helped expose the corruption and fraud that was taking place then - just because the incompetent bungler Kinnock failed to sort it out, it is grossly unfair to write off the work being done as a "cosmetic exercise"!

Yes Denis and it was the Conservative MEPs who helped expose the corruption and fraud that was taking place then - just because the incompetent bungler Kinnock failed to sort it out, it is grossly unfair to write off the work being done as a "cosmetic exercise"!

These are the same MEP's who suspended the whip from Roger Helmer for signing a censure motion about fraud at the top of the EU. Excuse me if I think this report seems like lip service.

And now a comment from the Rt Hon William Hague MP on Britain and the Euro and why we must keep the £ for one more Parliament only.........................................

I think that the 5 disgraceful MEP's who voted against the Euro should have the EPP whip withdrawn immediately.

The Euro is the best currency in the world.

The inflation rate is low at about 20% per annum, and Euro countries like Spain and Italy are bankrupt not because they joined the Euro but for some other reason altogether, but I cannot remember what it is.

Withdraw the whip from Hannan, Helmer (again), Deva (for cheek), Callanan, Heaton-Harris and Kamall. They must be made an example of...and never again allowed to sit for the EPP.

Ist they get whipped to support REACH, which any sane person knows is a usless regulatory nightmare,that will do untold harm to small business' especialy and typical of the stupidity that Brussels specialises in.....Then they vote for us to join the economic mass suicide club, otherwise known as the Zero......How much more pro the Project can you get???????

"just because the incompetent bungler Kinnock failed to sort it out, it is grossly unfair to write off the work being done as a "cosmetic exercise"!"

I disagree. Yes, Kinnock has much to answer for but one might say Conservative MEPs have been complicit in the failure.
With a few notable exceptions (Helmer, Hannan, etc)Conservative MEPs have consistently failed to address the issue of accountability.
I have read the link Sally provided but the "work being done" seems to rely on hot air and optimism rather than real substance.

Shocked at Neil Parish. I thought he was supposed to be a Euro sceptic. No way would he have been No 1 in the South west had we known he would vote in favour of the Euro.

Mr Parish be warned - We will no for next time!

I have had some first-hand information from a Brussels contact about this. I gather the Cons Group would normally abstain on this kind of thing, but the whips suddenly insisted on a Yes vote. There were NO 'mistakes in voting' or 'ignorance of the exact wording involved'.

We know perfectly well that some of our MEPs are federalists and pro-Euro; and others have gone native and are perhaps allegedly more interested in various internal elections than in toeing the Party line.

I remember David Cameron standing on the stage at Bolton saying, to huge applause " we shall withdraw from the EPP within WEEKS not MONTHS". A very hollow pledge.
I am not at all suprised that our MEPs voted like this, it seems to be a fairly common practice among elected representatives,from Councillors to MEPs, to go native after they've been elected.
Despite the fact that during their campaigns they readily extol right of centre platitudes to get us dumb clucks out working for them, I for one will never work for the European members and have not done so for some time.
No matter what they say,its all about their own agenda (normally pro Europe), or perhaps that gravy train WE ALL pay for is just too tasty.
The 5 who did not vote for this are to be applauded,

I was surpriced to read that Nirj had not sided with the patriots and am delighted to read his explanation.

So 8 Conservative MEPs voted in favour of the report altogether.

Meaning that 19 of our MEPs didn't vote in favour of the report.

I'd say that sheds a completely different light on yesterday's article

Are you joking, Daniel Vince-Archer? or are you just a complete CCO toady?

The eight traitors should be deselected at the earliest opportunity.

Somebody said they should be tarred and feathered. No patriot will disagree.

Editor - why don't you bring this thread to a natural close? Everyone is whipping themselves up into a frenzy and simply repeating the same mantra over and over again.....

The 5 rebels and the 14 abstainers should be evicted from the EPP immediately without further notice. The 8 EPP loyalists, OTOH should be rewarded with pensions for life, the right to live tax free indefinitely, and provided with state paid sexual favours, abducted children if they desire. The EU is great. The Euro is great. Long live Bribery and Corruption. Taxes must be raised across Europe to pay for it all.

Support the EPP - the European Pillaging Party.

Got a problem, Sally? I wonder why that is?

Why should we stop repeating this "mantra" (as you call it) until the miscreants have been dealt with?

I have no problem at all, Stuart Raven, except that it is all getting very very boring! If anyone cares to raise a point that hasn't been covered, then I will be very happy to continue debating. Otherwise... I think I will go off and have a cup of tea instead.

If you think it's boring, Sally, nobody is forcing you to read our comments.

I suspect that as a loyal Cameroon you are upset by this revelation of the federast underbelly of Dave's party. So sad we can't provide you with the 100% good news you crave.

Expect to be bored many more times over the months to come.

This thread must be threaded and inserted with a sharp needle into the posterior of Danial Hannan. Don't these bloody rebels understand? They can have it all - money, power, girls, boys, anything they desire. Just vote for the Euro. Vote for tax rises. Back the EPP, and the Party can go on forever. Italy is bankrupt sure, but Italy was always bankrupt, and Greece, and Spain. Why worry? Just enjoy the moment. The economies of Europe will all crash in time, but for now you can have it all, you idiots in the British Conservative Party.

"Are you joking, Daniel Vince-Archer?"

I don't really see what's comical about pointing out that only 8 out of our 27 MEPs actually voted in favour of the report.

I don't see how pointing that out would make me a 'CCO (sic) toady' either, but then I don't have the benefit of your clearly superior intellect, for which I cannot apologise enough.

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