Cameron signs petition to abolish Strasbourg Parliament

According to conservatives.com David Cameron has signed the petition to abolish the Strasbourg Parliament and ensure that MEPs only meet in Brussels.  Leader of the Tory MEPs Timothy Kirkhope welcomed the Tory leader's move:

"David Cameron's endorsement of the campaign is a symbol of how we Conservatives want to reform Europe. To be in Europe, leading in Europe is our aim. Ending the Strasbourg circus is a first step on the road to reform."

Mr Cameron signed the petition on the launch day of the Movement for European Reform.

This press release from CCHQ:

"The Conservative Party and the Civic Democrat Party will this evening launch a website for the Movement for European Reform. 

Conservative Party Leader David Cameron said: “We are launching a new Movement for European Reform because it is time to drive forward a new agenda in Europe – looking outwards to the world, flexible, competitive and ready to face the challenges of globalisation in the 21st Century.  It’s because we want to see a future for the EU and believe in a strong Europe that we want to make the EU confront its failings.  We will be a strong new voice for change, optimism and hope.”

Leader of the ODS Delegation in the European Parliament Jan Zahradil said: “With great pleasure I can see, that our joint commitment from July about forming a new group in the European Parliament is taking on its first practical achievement.  I have no doubt that this will be a major challenge to the outdated federalist ideas on Europe.”

Shadow Foreign Secretary, William Hague, said: “This will be a forum for debate about the reform that Europe so badly needs. I look forward to the Movement for European Reform becoming a powerhouse of ideas for change.” 

Shadow Minister for Europe, Graham Brady, said: “This is an exciting new project which aims to build a body of opinion in the European Union in support of a flexible, open EU.  We are bringing together politicians, opinion-formers, businesspeople and interested citizens from across Europe who share our belief that the European Union needs profound change if it is to meet the challenges of the 21st century.”"

Comments

[James Maskell]

Signing that petition is a start. He has to do a lot more though to convince us since the EPP mess...

[Mark Wadsworth]

Yippee! That'll shave a few (hundred) million off the EU's ridiculous admin budget!

[JT]

A cheap gimmick and an empty stunt that is not worth the ink spilt.

[Paul Kennedy]

Oh I don't know JT, I rather agree with James and Mark. The EU has become totally unaffordable and it has got to be dramatically cut back, not only has everybody involved got their snouts well and truly in the trough, many are totally wallowing in the trough, it's obscene.

[Goldie]

Wrong move. With the caveat that with need fewer European institutions, the idea of spreading out European institutions is a good thing. The idea of centralizing them is a bad thing. So, yes obviously as long as there still is a European Parliament it ought to meet in one place. But that place ought to be Strasbourg, not Brussels, dreamed-of capital of the centralized European super state.

[malcolm]

You must be about the only person outside the most fanatic of Eurofanatics who thinks so Goldie. If Institutions are spread out the costs of meetings, communication etc will rise.France makes enough out of the EU already without giving the local economy in Strasbourg an unnecessary and pointless boost that you suggest.

[christina speight]

Signing cost nothing and will achieve nothing except a few inches of favourable comment from brainless hacks who can't see through it.

meeting in Strasbourg a set number of days is in the treaty and can't be altered unless the French agree - they have a veto,

[Mark Wadsworth]

OK, how about we save a few (hundred) million Euros (pounds?) by scrapping meetings in Strasbourg and a few (hundred) million more by scrapping meetings in Brussels as well?

Why can't these MEPs just meet by email? That'd save another few million on airfares, taxis, hotels and the like, and instead of rubber-stamping a load of rubbish new regulations they can just email each other to death?

The Commission can then hold meetings over a map of Europe in a concrete bunker in East Prussia and stick pins into it, as far as I care.

[Prodicus]

Hague's undertaking of no *more* encroachment by Brussels is fine (if it's solid) but what's he going to do about rolling back the 80 per cent of our *existing* laws/regs that are ex-Brussels? Drawing a line in the sand is fine but the line needs to be *re-drawn* - a lot further back. Much damage is already done and needs to be undone.

[anon]

Another pointless exercise in window dressing

[Richard]

I wish the Tories would clearly spell out what they mean by reform. Do they mean turning the EU into a free trade area? Do they mean repealing just some regulations? What do they want to turn the EU into? What is their aim?

[Julian Williams]

Pathetic.

[Tim Aker]

The EU bureaucracy will always drive towards ever closer union and an EU federal state, by its very nature it is federalist. The only reason Kirkhopeless and co. want to stay in is to feed off the gravy train. The true patriots, like Hannan and Helmer - people who have signed the better off out petition - know what the solution is, it is to get out of the EU, an organisation which is designed to end in a federal europe as written in the founding treaty of rome.

[disillusioned activist]

A pointless gimmick....now had the petition been for the UK to withdraw from the EU...dream on

[Julian Williams]

After a year,our leader, the one who stood on an anti-federalist ticket when he wanted our votes, has come up with an EU policy: He will sign a petition to request the French to change their hard line attitude about continuing to keep the Stasbourg parliament. That is it.

Our mighty leader has found a rallying cry around which the once divided party can again unite. Maybe even Ken Clarke is on side this time?

There is no doubt about it, we have the fighting spirit. St Dave has unfurled his banner and is about to lead us out of the wilderness and into a bright new optimistic new world.

[Monday Clubber]

At the packed Telegraph Debate and, the following day, the equally well-attended Better Off Out rally also held at the Royal Bath one thing was self-evidently clear.

The vast majority of Tories want to leave the EU altogether. No iffs and buts. Let's get out now and save the UK billions.

Europhile Cameron can tinker about with the deckchairs on the Titanic if he wants but he risks being trampled underfoot by the rush.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

For once I partially agree with Christina - the French are notorious for sticking two fingers up to the rest of Europe in resolutely defending their self-interest (from de Gaulle's veto of British entry and the 'Empty Chairs Crisis' to the regular refusal to countenance reform of the Common Ripoff Agricultural Policy), and I can't imagine this will be any different.

[Chad]

..has Cameron broken his silence on the potential loss of our veto over criminal justice affairs etc?

..has William "in Europe not run by europe" Hague detailed his opposition to the loss of the veto?

Thought not.

[Mark Fulford]

At a time when we need the EU more than ever, I get really despondent that so many in the Conservative party are so opposed to it.

Yes, practicality of communication between the democratic and bureaucratic EU seats does provide a cost argument that they should be in the same place. But the reason to keep a clear division between the seats is Goldie’s very important point: the EU must not have a single point of power. It has to very clearly remain a framework of legal agreement between nations. It must not become a nation with a capital.

[Jack Stone]

Personally I think this conferanace as been excellent and as helped the party but I am afraid the most disgraceful incident that I saw was the booing of a picture of Ted Heath.
Ted Heath as a Former Prime Minister and leader of the party and who sadly is no longer around to defend himself deserves respect even if you disagree with the things he did and should not be subjected to this disrespectable nonsense.
Mind you what can you expect from the dinosaurs of the right. When I saw the meeting that this incident occured in I thought I was watching Jurassic Park not the Conservative Party Conferance.
It really is about time these anti-europe, anti-immigrant right-wingers excepted that there views have had there day and retired quietly to the wings.
There views are not the solutions to our problems today and its about time they accepted that they have lost the arguments not just the leadership.

[Richard]

"At a time when we need the EU more than ever, I get really despondent that so many in the Conservative party are so opposed to it"

What do we need it for apart from trade? now they're trying to take control of our criminal justice system!

"It really is about time these anti-europe, anti-immigrant right-wingers excepted that there views have had there day and retired quietly to the wings."

Actually their views are pretty popular (if you define anti-immigrant as anti-illegal immigrant). The electorate might not be as interested in the European issue as they are but there is a great deal of anger over uncontrolled immigration.

"There views are not the solutions to our problems today and its about time they accepted that they have lost the arguments not just the leadership."

What arguments on immigration and Europe have they lost?

Is there anybody left who thinks this person is a serious poster?

[Denis Cooper]

Kirkhope:

1. "... the MEPs will do everything in their power to bury that Constitution once and for all."

2. "Over a million people across Europe have signed our petition"

Which petition references Article 47 of that Constitution we will bury once and for all, and which was only started by europhiles as a tactic to gather support for it, see: http://www.oneseat.eu/ .

"Cecilia Malmström: Why the Oneseat campaign?"

NB - "ALDE, Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe, heter den partigrupp Cecilia sitter" and this is from the ALDE "10 point programme for Europe":

http://aldei.europarl.eu.int/1/JPILDFJBONPNBMMPDGCLDPAFPDBK9AF4F39DP3W3BY9LI74HS/docs/DLS/2004-STAFF-0271-01-EN.doc

"First, by promoting peace, through a Union in the federal tradition that respects our diverse cultural, local and linguistic identities, and is open to all European States which comply with the criteria for membership. A Union that can finally vote with a qualified majority system in order to fully exercise the European sovereignty in compliance with the principle of subsidiarity. The ratification and entry into force of the European Constitution is in this respect essential."

And Cameron fell into the trap of signing it.

[George Hinton]

A touch late in the day, this petition has been around for a while, though not greatly announced in this country for some strange reason.
Is this Dave being told to display his anti-EU credentials, so as to alleviate the loss of support to UKIP, which does actually represent grass root feelings re the EU and the commissars and apparatchiks, hell bent on making our lives a totalitarian misery.

[Mark Fulford]

What do we need it for apart from trade?

Shotgun diplomacy does not work. The only good to come out of military action in Iraq is that Saddam Hussein was taken out – a job which could have been better-left to an SAS hit team. “Superpower” America gets two fingers from Iran, Korea, and even from its own backyard - Venezeula and Mexico. America’s economic and diplomatic power is ever-shrinking.

By contrast the EU has been growing. But instead of being a single power expanding its influence, the EU is simply nations joining together in tightly-binding legal frameworks, making it a very stable. Equally importantly, the growth is achieved by nations wanting to join the agreement, not by forcibly imposing values upon them.

In living memory we’ve had two terrible European wars. The stable growth of the EU is such that, not only is war within the Union almost inconceivable, we now have former Eastern Bloc threats firmly allied with us.

Since 1987 Turkey has been steadily changing its ways; there’s a good chance that they’ll become acceptable full members within the next twenty years. And on Turkey’s borders… Syria, Iraq and Iran with Israel and the Lebanon just beyond. Quietly the EU holds a real prospect of bringing peace and stability between those nations. Before you throw away that prospect, please come up with a better, more important one.

[Richard]

"Shotgun diplomacy does not work."

I'm not arguing for shotgun diplomacy. I'm arguing for a free trade area. Free trade is one of the best guarantees of peace. I think it was Frederic Bastiat who said "if goods don't cross borders, armies will" (or words similar to that). Free trade encourages cooperation and interdependence. Protectionism encourages nationalism and isolation.

America is in a free trade area (NAFTA) and doesn't seem to feel the need to turn it into a political project. (This isn't to deny that NAFTA does have some problems).

"In living memory we’ve had two terrible European wars. The stable growth of the EU is such that, not only is war within the Union almost inconceivable, we now have former Eastern Bloc threats firmly allied with us."

I think NATO and the threat of Russia has more to do with Western European Unity than the EU. The Eastern European Countries want the trade benefits of the EU (but sadly some want the subsidies too). I don't think they're interested in allowing the EU to have a say in their inernal affairs.

My main opposition to the EU is that it is undemocratic - it allows the representatives of other countries to have a say over the laws of this country, even if the people of this counry don't agree. Did we want compulsory metrification, do we want a maximum 48 hour week? If we do want these things then why not allow us to impose them at a national level?

[Mark Fulford]

The Eastern European Countries want the trade benefits of the EU.

Yes, and they don't get that without meeting the accession criteria. The EU encourages new members to raise their standards to our level. Pure free trade encourages us down to theirs.

My main opposition to the EU is that it is undemocratic - it allows the representatives of other countries to have a say over the laws of this country, even if the people of this counry don't agree.

The democratic area is wider, but democracy within the area is not less. Remember that no power has been given away undemocratically and we get the same power that we give.

If we do want these things then why not allow us to impose them at a national level?

This is this issue of federalism. The EU certainly does need reform, and part of that should be a clearer method of deciding how locally each decision should be made. I agree that too many local decisions are being yielded upwards but, perversely, I believe this flaw is because “free trade” is loose language that can be used to justify nearly anything.

[Monday Clubber]

"At a time when we need the EU more than ever, I get really despondent that so many in the Conservative party are so opposed to it."

Mark Fulford, you're having a laugh.

Apart from a few far-leftists on the TRG fringe nobody - not even Cameron - admits to liking the EU any more.

Well, you should have been at the Better Off Out meeting listening to Daniel Hannam and Phillip Davies.

That's where the true Tories were. Masses of them, stomping and cheering.

If a picture of Heath had been produced it wouldn't have been booed.

It would have been torn into a thousand pieces and flushed down the sewer where it belongs.

[Mark Fulford]

If a picture of Heath had been produced it wouldn't have been booed. It would have been torn into a thousand pieces and flushed down the sewer where it belongs.

Like your comments on Osborne, these are the words of somebody who’s simply out to make trouble. Yes, there are divisions within the Conservative Party about Europe, but they are thoughtful, rational divisions that can be discussed sensibly (I'd like to think that's what Richard and I have been up to). You want to paint Eurosceptic Conservatives as thoughtless, irrational idiots and that, my friend, means you’re not a Conservative.

[Mark Wadsworth]

Hang about one second, let's do the sums...

Free trade = good thing

EFTA = free trade (incl. with EU)

EU = 10% free trade, 90% rubbish

Answer = leave EU, re-join EFTA.

[Mark Fulford]

Free trade = good thing
EU = 10% free trade, 90% rubbish

These assumptions are questionable.

Free trade encourages lowest common denominator trade: the person with the lowest employment standards and environmental standards wins. To compete, free trade encourages us to adopt the Chinese (etc) working practices, but that’s impossible without also adopting their quality of life and disregard for the environment.

Economic rules change fast and what was true 10 years ago isn’t necessarily true today. As the importance of the environment and preserving some degree of manufacturing base increases, I’d suggest

free trade != good thing

The EU is a piece of machinery, an engine if you like. You see 90% of it as rubbish, but those bits do serve a purpose (to help bind) and, without them you’d just have a spark-plug. Think of the EU as a black box and only measure the inputs and outputs: it’s doing measurably better than what’s happening elsewhere in the world. What we’ve lost is much less than what we’ve gained.

[Stuart]

Disbanding Strasbourg would take a treaty change and this has to be agreed by all signatories and this includes France. A fact little discussed here or perhaps moderated to the recycle bin.