Cameron on Marr's Sunday AM

Key paraphrased points from the interview:

• I am a Conservative because I instinctively do not turn to the state to solve problems.
• I make no apologies for Sunday Telegraph attack on Gordon Brown.
• Taxes have been pushed up too high under Tony Blair and businesses are going to relocate abroad if we're not careful.  I'm not going to be pushed around in making rushed commitments to tax cuts.  Stability must come before tax cuts.  But over the course of time we will share the proceeds of growth between tax cuts and public spending.  Labour has not shared the proceeds of growth - they have put all of the money into public spending and much of it has been wasted.
• I welcome the Forsyth Tax Commission's work on simplifying the tax system but I will not promise upfront cuts in tax.
• We have fought elections in the recent past on up front, unfunded tax cuts and we are not going to do that again.
• The share of taxation funded by environmental taxes should go up.
• Let's clear away the regulations that stop the greenest energy sources from competing in the energy market but nuclear energy must be the last resort - particularly because we still haven't sorted out the nuclear waste problem.
• We cannot quit Afghanistan because we will only leave a hotbed of terrorism behind.
• If Labour spent a little bit less time thinking about the Blair succession it could spend more time encouraging more commitment to Afghanistan from other NATO countries.
• In Iraq we need to do more to train up the Iraq army and police but the troops cannot come home until the Iraqi government is strong enough to make their country safe.
• MPs must stop voting on their own pay and too many chums are being appointed as special advisers in New Labour's Whitehall.
• I am the only party leader who has proposed a full package of reforms that will clean up party political funding including a £50,000 limit on individual donations.
• We will keep the best things that New Labour did including Bank of England independence and the minimum wage.  Conservatives were wrong on the minimum wage.

It was a confident performance - David Cameron looked relaxed and offered no encouragement to those who are demanding tax cuts now.

Comments

[TomTom]

that will clean up party political funding including a £50,000 limit on individual donations.

for Breakfast, Lunch, or Dinner ?

[alex]

What is the attitude of those critics on here to Ken Clarke's raising of taxes in his early years as Chancellor?

[Paul Kennedy]

All three TomTom 09:54 ;)

On the subject of tax cuts, given the massive state deficits we have.......massive and growing at an alarming rate, I think we will be lucky to keep taxes at the level they are in the early years of the next government....... a Conservative government, never mind tax cuts.

[Martin Bristow]

Tax cuts are part of a wide ranging Conservative approach to policy and ought to be hardwired into us.They are however only one side of the coin.

Governement needs to be far more radical in it's reform of the public services.Only this way can we deliver steadily decreasing Tax.The Major government of which Ken Clarke was part completely ran out of steam here.Leading to economic mismangement and a total loss of trust in Tory policy.

[Tapestry]

Party Funding Reforms Cameron proposed would render Labour's dependence on the Unions illegal.

Rightly so and about time.

Very subtle.

[alex]

Well, Martin, seeing as you obviously do not believe in upfront promises about reducing taxation then you are clearly not at who i was addressing the question.

[Richard]

"Conservatives were wrong on the minimum wage."

Why? It might not have led to mass unemployment but it will have increased business costs and reduced the employment prospects of some. Labour were at least sensible enough to set it fairly low.

That said I can understand supporting it for political reasons.

[malcolm]

Well the moment of truth beckons.Cameron was very unequivocal about tax cuts,Iraq& Afghanistan and party funding.No one can accuse him of ducking these issues. My problem is that over Iraq and probably party funding I think he's wrong.

[Richard]

Seeing as government waste has been estimated at between 30 and 80 billion depending on your source I do find Cameron's thinking on tax rather odd.

[Martin Bristow]

I do believe in Tax cuts without any shadow of doubt.But I do recognise that you cannot achieve in isolation from your spending policy.

The administration in which Clarke was chancellor did enormous to our Party.They lost the reputaion for economic competence.

Apologies for my intervention I thought it was an open question.

[Jamie Douglas]

i was quite young at the time, so forgive any errors on my part, but my understanding of it was that it was Norman Lamont and Black Wednesday that destroyed the partys reputation for economic competence.

I believe Ken Clarke actually did a very good job in mopping up after that disaster, it's just that the damage to the partys reputation was done by then, so he didn't really get any credit.

just as an aside, i believe we actually did Labour a favour by winning the '92 election, as it's generally agreed by most economists that Black Wednesday would have happened whichever party had been in power at the time. If it destroyed our reputation for economic competence, imagine what it would have done to Labours reputation.....

I for one believe it would have completely destroyed Labour as a serious political party.

[comstock]

We will keep the best things that New Labour did including ..... the minimum wage. Conservatives were wrong on the minimum wage

They were indeed! I wonder if that admission can be taken to include the 48 hr week, holiday pay, age discrimiation and full rights for workers after 12 instead of 24 months?

As well as a commitment to raise the NMW by more than inflation each year?

[Richard]

"They were indeed! I wonder if that admission can be taken to include the 48 hr week"

What if businesses need people to work more than 48 hours a week?

[malcolm]

Our criticism of the minimum wage was over the top and has proved to be wrong Comstock the rest was bang on the money.I'm amazed you feel able to defend it.

[Goldie]

Cameron's formula "sharing the proceeds of growth" is profoundly idiotic. Cutting taxes stimulates the economy and tax cuts in an overtaxed social democracy like today's Britain therefore pay for themselves. The concept of having to "fund"them is ludicrous.

He thinks that the Tories lost the general elections in 2001 and 2005 because they promised tax cuts.That analyis is so stupid as to beggar belief.

He is committing himself to an enormous public sector. He has changed alright and there is no real difference between him and Tony Blair.

David Cameron is unfit to lead the Conservative Party and should be removed as soon as possible.

[Goldie]

PS: Conservatives were *not* wrong on the minimum wage. The only thing the minimum wage does is to destroy jobs and therefore increase people's dependence on the state.

Cameron has simply converted to a big state theory of government for the sole reason of political expedience: anything to achieve "jobs for the boys".

But if I am to be governed by socialists, I would rather be governed by real ones. That way there is at least an alternative.

[malcolm]

You haven't learned a bloody thing over the last ten years have you Goldie? Thank God,people like you have almost zero influence within the modern Conservative party. Go out into the real world and lecture people on the thousands of jobs lost by the minimum wage.I wonder if the converts could be counted on the fingers of one finger.

[Monday Clubber]

Actually we don't know how many jobs may or may not have been lost by the introduction of the Minimum Wage.

But I do know this.

In a Free Society the Nanny State doesn't interfere in such matters.

And freedom is indivisible

[malcolm]

,In a free society the nanny state doesn't interfere in such matters',- Monday Clubber.Even by your standards a crass thing to say.USA,Canada not free societies? No minimum wage in China though and thousands of child workers.Is that the kind of free society you would like Monday Clubber? If you really are a Conservative which I doubt your views are an embarrasment to the party.

[John Hustings]

Opposing the minimum wage is a point of view based on Economics, not on selfishness or heartlessness, Malcolm. It is a mistake to believe that people are not well-intentioned simply because they oppose a policy which *purports* to be caring and beneficial. People may just disagree that it *is* beneficial or in the wider interests of society.

The argument goes that state interference in general does more harm than good; that when the state interferes in the market, there are unintended consequences (usually bad). In the the case of the minimum wage, the unintended negative consequence that, from an economic point of view, is believed to occur is an increase in unemployment and loss of competetiveness.

I don't believe it has been proven either way whether or not the minimum wage *has* had deleterious effects. The fact that the economy has grown consistently over recent years proves nothing (it *should* be growing anyway). Labour has claimed the minimum wage has been successful, but then again, they would. The point is that alot of unemployment in this country has been hidden, both by incapacity levels and also the huge increase in public sector employment.

Your mention of America is a different point entirely, since their minimum wage is much lower than ours and is thus much less likely to have the negative effects I describe.

[malcolm]

Are you sure that the minimum wage is much lower than ours considering their cost of living John? Genuine question as I really don't know? It seemed pretty generous when I worked over there as a student in the early 80's.
I would agree with you that if the minimum wage was set at a level where business was forced to lay off people then it would be totally counter productive (we may be nearing that point now).But all the Tory prophets of doom when it was introduced were I think...wrong.

[Jon White]

Malcolm, the US Federal Minimum wage is $5.15 per hour. I do not know the UK one, but I'm pretty sure that the Us one is lower.

[John Hustings]

We don't know if the Tory "prophets of doom" are wrong Malcolm, that's my whole point. We don't know what the effects of the minimum wage have been, because alot of unemployment has been hidden, and we know that our economy has slipped in its competitiveness. It is true that the "prophets of doom" are *perceived* to have got it wrong, which is a different point entirely.

But then, 2 years ago everyone thought that Gordon Brown had done a great job running the economy...

[Monday Clubber]

The minimum wage may not have damaged the economy to the extent that some predicted.

That does not alter the basic principle that the state should not, unless it is absolutely essential, interfere in a contract freely entered into between private citizens.

The prospective employer has no "hold" over the prospective employee. He/she is free to seek better paid employment elsewhere.

Was "Malcolm" a keen party activist during the Thatcher years as I was? If so, did he raise his voice in favour of this socialist measure at the time?

Over to you Malcolm.

[Graham D'Amiral]

We got it wrong on the minimum wage it didn't harm the economy in the way we feared, what it did do was actually prevent the exploitation of workers who were not being paid an affordable living wage. It is right that the next conservative government will keep it and if possible increase it.

[Goldie]

"exploitation of workers who were not being paid an affordable living wage"

This drivel is pure Marxism-Leninsm. This, apparently, is what the Tory party stands for today.

[comstock]

The prospective employer has no "hold" over the prospective employee. He/she is free to seek better paid employment elsewhere

And if they can't find better paid employment? Bosses should then be 'free' to exploit to their hearts content, with the workers being 'free' to accept? Some freedom, when the alternative is the dole or skid row.

Get this................

1996 Tory government....Comstock's hourly rate? 3 pounds 50, with no holiday pay

2006 Labour government.....Comstock's hourly rate? 5.90, with holiday pay.

Of course I'd much rather be 'free' under the Tories...... :D

[malcolm]

Monday Clubber I was an activist during the Thatcher years.I also bought into the idea of the time that the minimum wage would cost thousands and thousands of jobs.Except of course it didn't. I and those 'prophets of doom' were wrong.Are you too arrogant or ideologically hidebound to see that?

[comstock]

Our criticism of the minimum wage was over the top and has proved to be wrong Comstock the rest was bang on the money.I'm amazed you feel able to defend it

Not sure where you are coming from here,Malcolm.

Are you saying the other employee rights stuff (48 hr week, holiday pay etc) is bad?

[Jon White]

Malcolm, idealogically as free-marketeers, surely the concept of a govt. imposed minimum wage is wrong. Or, do we take the Heathite position that certain things are the 'unnaceptable face of capitalism?'.
You are quite right to say that it hasn't coast thousands of jobs. However, how many jobs has it prevented from being created? I honestly don't know, but I do suspect that it, and other costs associated with employing staff here have persuaded some employers to set up shop elsewhere. (China being the obvious place).
Instinctively, I oppose a minimum wage on idealogical grounds.

[comstock]

Instinctively, I oppose a minimum wage on idealogical grounds.

Would you be willing to back up your ideology by living on less than the minimum wage for a month or two, Jon?

[Jon White]

comstock - I hope that I would never have to! I think I cut my post off early in error. I wouldn't want to live on it at all. I also am in favour of worker protection. Sometimes idealogy and the real world don't mix. I fully accept that.

[comstock]

Sometimes idealogy and the real world don't mix. I fully accept that

Yes, being on the left I often have to accept that too! LOL :D

[malcolm]

Er yes.I do oppose the idea that we should impose absolutely any more constraints on business than we have to.The 48 hour working week has been bad for business and unlike the minimum wage has been seen to have cost jobs.Some people may have gained.Many have also lost.

[comstock]

Er yes.I do oppose the idea that we should impose absolutely any more constraints on business than we have to.The 48 hour working week has been bad for business
and unlike the minimum wage has been seen to have cost jobs

Cost jobs? Are you sure? I don't see how. If anything it could create jobs, both directly (employing an extra person instead of forcing existing staff to work longer hours, and indirectly in the leisure industry. The only people this has become a burden on is bad employers, and amen to that.

Arguably this (along with compulsory holiday pay) is a greater achivement than the NMW because it has benefited us all, not just the lowest paid.

Now what was that quote from Call-Me-Dave about GWB being more important than GDP again?

[James Hellyer]

Cost jobs? Are you sure? I don't see how.

Hiring additional staff costs more than paying existing staff to work extra hours as required. This can be seen both in the costs of securing staff, indirect costs such as HR, and the added inflexibility of a larger workforce.

and indirectly in the leisure industry

Which benefits from people having more time to spend the money they're no longer earning from oveetime...

[malcolm]

James you're right of course.I'm rather suprised you had to ask that question Comstock. Btw if you want to have a debate with me please don't call DC 'call me Dave',leave the childish name calling to the trolls who inhabit this site. After all I don't refer to the PM as 'Bliar' even though it is an accurate description of him.

[comstock]

Hiring additional staff costs more than paying existing staff to work extra hours as required.

Tough, basically. Peoples quality of life is more important than making life easy for bad employers who want to exploit staff.

Why should the bad employer get a competitive advantage over good employers who wouldn't dream of *forcing* staff to work ultra-long hours week after week (staff can still do more than 48 if they want to of course)

[malcolm]

It is tough for the employer and employee when they go out of business and neither have a job.This what's happening all over the EU.

[comstock]

It is tough for the employer and employee when they go out of business and neither have a job.This what's happening all over the EU.

Do you have any evidence the 48hr week is specifically to blame for this?

[malcolm]

On the 48 hour working week specifically?No not off the top of my head but on the social legilation as a whole imposed by the EU, yes loads.Where would you like to start?

[James Hellyer]

Peoples quality of life is more important than making life easy for bad employers who want to exploit staff.

People's quality of life is not improved when their incomes are restricted, or when their jobs are lost when their business is unable to compete either againjst against domestic or international competition.

And "exploit"? Cut the leftist hyperbole. In most businesses the margins can be very tight, and the people you decry as exploitative are those those who have risked their capital in the business.

staff can still do more than 48 if they want to of course

Until Britain loses its opt out.

[comstock]

OK last one from me on this-I've made my point

Which (the leisure industry) benefits from people having more time to spend the money they're no longer earning from oveetime

The leisure industry doesn't neccesarily mean expensive things. There are several businesses, many of them small businesses, that depend on people having a bit of leisure time. The ice cream seller on the beach would be a prime example.

Then there is the impact on voluntary things like Red Cross and Scouts.

Not to mention family life.

All three things I think the Tory party would traditionally have stood up for.

(and I agree workers should be allowed to work more than 48hrs if they want to)