Farage is new UKIP leader

More later.

10am update on 13/9: In fact I've got nothing to add to the wide-ranging discussion on the thread below.  Only 7,574 votes were cast in the election of Mr Farage and it doesn't appear the press could work up that much enthusiasm either.  There's very little coverage in today's newspapers. 

Comments

[Mark Fulford]

Oh goody. Can we talk about something else now?

[tapestry]

Nice guy. Shame about the Party.

[michael]

So?

[malcolm]

Absolutely Henry.Agree with you totally.Must be going soft!

[James Maskell]

UKIP could leech a lot of right wing Tories away from the Conservatives. I think it is important.

[Sean Fear]

I think if UKIP were to get their act together, they could get the support of around 5% of voters.

[Editor]

Can the pin-striped Farage achieve that, Sean, on a tough message of Euroscepticism, lower taxation, strict controls on immigration?

[Ted]

Surprisingly low number of UKIP members voting - 7500 or so which indicates active membership of 10,000 to 12,000 - and Farage has less than 50% of votes which isn't a great start for a leader.
As for how they do in future, events might help if the Euro-constitution is brought up again in a year or so. A tired Brown premiership, the Tories against but not too loudly. Ming trying to rally the LDs. Farage is clever enough to play well in the 2009 Euro-elections and that could spill over enough into GE that we lose a few seats because of UKIP.
Brown could well go to the country on the back of hopes UKIP would take Tory votes and might well organise "events" to build UKIP support.

[knight of cydonia]

More to come later? I can't imagine what more you could write to be honest Tim - the title pretty much sums it up.

[Fred]

Farage is exactly the kind of pin-striped, bombastic, smug, aggressive old-style politician that made the Conservative Party so unpopular in the 1990s.

The mercy is he's in another party!

[James Maskell]

The very people Editor indicates will like those policies live down here in Thanet as well as in major cities. Its risky to ignore it.

[David Banks]

Good luck to him. he'll probably turn out to be gay , go into Big Brother , get his own chat show , marry a pop singer and be sacked for too much 'media exposure'. Alternatly , he'll just waste his time leading UKIP --- YOU DECIDE!!

[Voice from the South West]

As Ted eluded to with the membership numbers; I doubt that UKIP has the organisational ability to achieve the necessary impact to get anything like 5% at a general election. The turnout/membership figures as well suggest a membership which is not exactly “enthused” either.

[David Banks]

Well lets not be complacent , particularly on a protest vote ticket - they are more respectable than the BNP.

[Andy P]

Boring, UKIP will continue to poll well in Euro elections I am sure, their impact on General Elections will remain unimportant.

Who else actually knows they are around after all? They get no air play, they are really in news reports and for most of the country they are never heard of.

I would have no idea who the UKIP people are in my town. As a result, they will never break out in national politics.

Now can we start talking about something of relevance.

[CDM]

Editor, please don't add anything later. That would suggest that the internal wranglings of UKIP are worthy of our attention.

[anon]

First they ignore you and then...........
(Remember when this blog first started?)

[David Walker]

If there was anyone we didn't want leading UKIP it is Farage. He has got face recognition, he is good on the TV and radio. He does have charisma and will appeal to the hangers and floggers of this party.
Good luck to him!

[Antony Calvert]

UKIP is supported by some real nutters, one of which sometimes posts on here. Whilst they have such a mad, crazy contingent I will be happy because most of them used to be giving our party a bad name!

[Monday Clubber]

"Good luck to him. he'll probably turn out to be gay"

That's one reputation Farage certainly does not have!!!

I welcome the election of this charasmatic and talented figure. David Cameron and his enthusiasts will no doubt continue to plough their rather strange centre-left furrow for some time yet, but in the long run a revived, thoroughly Eurosceptic, Conservative Party will need to work with likeminded traditionalists in UKIP and the DUP.

Frankly I don't see an end to the shrinking of the Conservative Party's membership base. The time may eventually come when there is very little difference between ourselves and parties like UKIP which have grown rapidly from a zero base.

It's something we have to come to terms with.

[Monday Clubber]

"I would have no idea who the UKIP people are in my town. As a result, they will never break out in national politics."

Strange logic.

I presume that the general public have a good idea who the Tory people are in your town?

It's certainly not something that can be guaranteed countrywide.

[Nod Chable]

UKIP will remain where it is as they pretend to be to the right of the Conservative party thus alienating those Labour, LibDem and usual non voters who have backed them in recent years - the further right Farage pulls UKIP they will start fighting for the ground occupied by the BNP.

UKIP will continue to act as if it is some right wing tory pressure group instead of a mainstream political party.

[lucy74]

So nutty Nigel is leader. Can't say I am surprised. I agree with James Maskell that the threat from UKIP is real although not great.

At the last election UKIP claimed that they would only stand candidates against MPs, Tory or otherwise, who were not sufficiently Eurosceptic, and attempted to claim some kind of Eurosceptic patriotic high ground.

So why then did they stand candidates against such noted Europsceptics Bill Cash and former London Business for Sterling Chairman Adam Afriyie?

Admittedly they hardly stood a chance in these cases but the sooner UKIP's motives are seen as more about taking ground from (even Eurosceptic) Tories than anything else, the sooner the wider electorate will dismiss them as the loony irrelevance they really are.

[ThePrince]

UKIP is like the monster under the bed its only there if people start thinking about it. So I would advise you all n ot to bother continuing this thread.

[Chad]

Um, Lucy, Nigel this evening on Radio 4's PM that he will not stand candidates against better placed BetterOfOut supporters.

The brave Tory MP's who founded BetterOffOut have started something that has now grown to the extent that it has supporters in at least 5 different parties including Labour, the Tories and UKIP.

I'm sure thousands of conservatives will welcome a new angle to the debate, with one party passionately campaigning for lower taxes and a smaller government, plus the movement of the eurosceptic issue above party politics.

Eurosceptics and lowtaxers should be forgiven for breaking into a small smile this evening.

Now is the time to focus our guns on the left, not each other, so let's keep the debate out of the gutter and focussed on the issues.

[James Maskell]

Im also selfishly worried as Nigel Farage went for Thanet South last year...as has been posted a number of times, UKIP got enough votes to arguably decide that seat. UKIP will put more resources into Thanet South now so that their leader can be the first UKIP MP.

If things work out the way they could well do, this is seriously bad news.

[Monday Clubber]

It is in the marginal seats that UKIP will shave the Tory vote and "decapitate" our candidates. Some observers believe that the UKIP campaign was crucial to the last Tory defeat.

If Farage opposes standing UKIP candidates against committed Tory Eurosceptics then that's good news for all patriots and for all Tories.

That's why we have to try to work with Farage and not against him.

We can start right now by avoiding childish and undignified name-calling.

[lucy74]

Um Chad, my comment related to the 2005 election. I am sure Nigel has said some terribly interesting, if irrelevant, things this evening and well done him for standing up for what he believes in.

But interestingly you have not answered my question which was why UKIP stood candidates against Eurosceptics in the last election? Surely they didn't have that much money to throw around on wasted deposits?

[Chad]

Well, I'd guess they were a bunch of clueless monkeys whose strategy was all over the place Lucy. Is that straight enough for you!

[lucy74]

We may differ in political beliefs but I like your style Chad! :)

[David Walker]

I don't think you are right Monday CLubber, what we need is for UKIP to develop a distinctive platform, this would allow them to give voters a real choice.

We can slam UKIP and Chad all we want but choice and difference are politics. I do notice no one is really attacking their policies. Why not? Because they are pretty much what every Tory beleives. That is what is scary.

[David Walker]

*Believes

[John Coles]

Monday Clubber is right - the smug, dismissive attitude displayed towards UKIP by many in this thread is ill-advised and, often as not, born of fear. UKIP is the Tory Party's lost tribe. Thought about a reconcilation would be more constructive.

[lucy74]

"UKIP will put more resources into Thanet South now so that their leader can be the first UKIP MP."

Nigel Farage is not considering standing there again. But no doubt he will be the bane of someone's election!

[Richard Carey]

That's why we have to try to work with Farage and not against him.

Frankly, I'd rather beat him. UKIP is just another (small and disorganised) opposition party, and a peculiarly nutty one at that. Please don't try and imbue it with any magical properties.

Because they are pretty much what every Tory beleives.

Please don't make me out to share a policy platform with this lot. If I was of a single mind with UKIP, I'd probably want to re-examine my mind...

Well, I'd guess they were a bunch of clueless monkeys whose strategy was all over the place Lucy. Is that straight enough for you!

I'll watch carefully for evidence of that changing, but given some of the manouvering of this leadership contest, I don't see much. I certainly don't disregard them on a seat-by-seat basis, I just treat them like any other fringe opponent.

I presume that the general public have a good idea who the Tory people are in your town?

Monday Clubber has a rare good point here, albeit carefully hidden, but not especially with regard to UKIP. Conservatives have to be sure that their local campaigning is up to snuff, that councillors and candidates have adequate name recognition and contact with the electorate, and I do feel that our organisation on the ground is sometimes variable in this. Something for us all (okay, non-UKIP supporters) to continue to work on and improve.

[Chad]

"Thought about a reconcilation would be more constructive."

Ukippers are by-and-large, small 'c' conservatives and Nigel made a firm point of raising conservatism (not the Tory Party) during his victory speech.

We know that many conservatives switch their vote to UKIP during the Euroelections, and by developing what might be called a more traditional conservative platform, Nigel will be widening the sphere of conservatism.

This is vital for UKIP and the Tories as it means our arguments will be made in our terms and not according to the agenda set by the left.

I think it is a very exciting time for conservatism in the UK.

This is not about trading votes off each other, but extending conservatism and winning round non-Tory or non-UKIP voters with a centre-right agenda.

I'm at a loss at how anyone with conservative values would not see this as a good thing.

UKIP has been a shambles, but it has always been values-based and now it has woken up to the need to build its own positive,domestic conservative agenda.

It should be the left who are worried, not the centre-right.

[James Maskell]

Chad do the numbers. Split the votes of the centre right between the Conservatives and UKIP and Labour or the Lib Dems go to Downing Street...maybe Labour and the Lib Dems will form a coalition.

I dont see it as a good thing...

[tired and emotional]

If Chad is right then it's all glorious, if all the fine words disappear when it comes to grubbing around for votes and we lose seats to Labour or worse, to the Lib Dems then UKIP will simply be handing us over to the eurocrats.

[John Coles]

You tried Chad, but no one's reading your post. Thought is not a feature of this thread - just knee-jerk reaction.

[DavidTBreaker]

Selecting Better Off Out supporters in the marginals seems like the sensible answer. I'd advice anyone selected for a seat that isn't Conservative held to join the campaign simply because losing a general election because of such a small matter is crazy.

[Chad]

I'll keep trying John! Conservatives are friends and allies not enemies. Conservatism, remember is a global ideology, not the sole possession of the UK Tory Party

I want conservatives to argue from a conservative standpoint, not have to pretend to be socialists to win office.

I'm really looking forward to a passionate debate about lower taxes and small government.

[gorwell]

At the end of the day the choice is simple.
Do you want a million plus turks (some of whom are terrorists) coming into the UK in 14 years or not ?
If you do vote Tory/Labour or Liberal Dem.
If you don't vote UKIP.

[Martin Cole]

Much interesting background on Nigel Farage MEP is available on the blog UKIP Uncovered:

http://www.ukipuncovered.blogspot.com

It seems to me that UKIP can now almost guarantee being able to deprive the Cameron Conservative Party a parliamentary majority at the next election, possibly even taking enough votes to save New Labour from a hung parliament. Nigel can spin with the best!

Eurorealists should be more concerned that he is more a creature of the EU than a true opponent. Just like all the other party leaders!

[Opinicus]

I have been a member of the Conservative Party since I was 16 which is 30 years ago. I am inches away from joining UKIP. If Farrage makes good on a right wing domestic agenda and talks about that and assumes we are going to pull out of Europe, (A tactic similar to that adopted by the Scots Nats)then I will change party. An anti-establishment right wing party that looked and smelt respectable (cf BNP)could do very well at the next election if it had some sensible domestic policies and the Conservatives continue to be a vacuous metropolitan hole.
He should re-brand the party and call it just the Independence Party. Independent of Brussels, independent of government, independent of mind - has quite a ring doesn't it?

[malcolm]

I have some sympathy for some of UKIPs ideas and like what I've seen of Farage personally.However the actions of UKIP are wholly negative in the sense that throughout the life of that party all they have done is benefit leftwing eurofanatic parties. Therefore if we are unable to persuade these people to join our party we should do all in our power to electorally destroy and treat them in the same way as we would other nuisance partys such as the BNP ,Respoct or the Communist Party.

[Monday Clubber]

Well clearly you are not going to "destroy" UKIP. They don't win seats but they always come back for more, and each time the Tories suffer.

Do you know why they don't go away? It's because UKIP actually BELIEVE in something and yes, the same can probably be said about the BNP and the far-left parties too. Not so sure about Respect. That's more like a one-man ego-trip.

There was a time, under Thatcher, when we Tories were proud to have ideals. Remember that? I do.

What do we have now? Endless posturing and insincere apologising for the views we held when we were in government. What is there to be proud of in that?

It's why the only thing that continues to sustain the Tories as a "mainstream party" is now the naked ambition of a small minority of its members.

Not a very pretty sight.

[tired and emotional]

I have to say that the current electoral situation is not the fault of successive Tory leaderships. It is down the Clinton-Blair effect. Between them they so effectively redefined the language of politics and so effectively presented the idea that one could live in capitalist state and still have EU or Democrat level spending and safety nets that it's taken most voters this long to begin realise the mirage they crawl towards across the tax and spend desert is just that, an unreachable mirage. The only thing that provides comfort is that GB will inherit the electoral whirlwhind provided DC doesn't scare the horses.

[eublues]

Ukip would say: What is the point of the Tory Party talking about what it would or wouldn't do if elected when they have given control of the country to the EU, and have no plans even to take the fishing back?

[Richard Carey]

Well clearly you are not going to "destroy" UKIP. They don't win seats but they always come back for more...the same can probably be said about the BNP

Well, here on ConservativeHome.com, excuse me for having a darn good try! Especially with the BNP - I have (unfortunately) a BNP councillor in my constituency, and am looking forward to ensuring he is "destroyed" along with any UKIP candidates that might pop up!

[tired and emotional]

A Tory would reply: fair point, and it's up to us to fix it. Face it, if the Tories can't fix it no-one else can. End of.

[Chad]

We're conservatives too Richard. We have a fresh agenda and vision of smaller government, and flatter, lower taxation.

Why would you be seeking to point your guns at fellow conservatives rather than socialists etc?

Could it be that UKIP now has a lot to offer to the disillusioned lowtaxers that the Tory Party has been abusing but believed they had nowhere else to go?

You should never take people for granted you know!

[tired and emotional]

Talk about pot and kettle Chad, honestly!

[Chad]

:-) Well we are very similar t&e!

Why attack a common ideology?

Sure, I understand the party politics part, you fell threatened etc, but the Tory Party has many values-based conservatives, who I am sure will welcome the broadening of the conservative debate.

Now UKIP will offer conservatives, or anyone who seeks a smaller government, low taxation approach, a genuine choice.

As I noted earlier, the aim is to win over the non-voters or those currently voting "left" not to play member sharing with the Tories.

Attack our policies, by all means, but if you seek to rubbish the overall agenda, you'll be alienating more people in your own party than in UKIP!

[Richard Carey]

Why would you be seeking to point your guns at fellow conservatives rather than socialists etc?

I'm certainly not looking to point my guns at fellow Conservatives. However, I am quite keen to defend our seats against other parties.

And yes, I would very much rather be devoting my energies solely towards taking marginal seats from Labour. However, if minority parties like UKIP attack strongly seats we already hold, that forces me to waste time defending them that could be spent working on campaigns against Labour.

The Labour Party has been all but wiped out in my constituency - why would you want to hold me there defending against UKIP and BNP candidates if I could be in a Tory/Labour marginal winning votes?

So don't try to persuade me that by standing candidates against us, you're helping us. In that event you're not - come election time, you're just another opponent.

Tell me, Chad; you seem to be backing UKIP strongly. What would you do in the event of a local challenge from your opposition?

[christina speight]

Reading the above it is clear that ignorance of UKIP and its ethos is widespread.

EG:
1. In 2005 26 seats had UKIP votes bigger than the gap between the winner and the Tory runner-up

2. The members of UKIP are fine people and their motives are first class - it's the leaders that are dreadful

3. the new leader was denounced by two successive secretaries one objecting to theft.

4. A non-registered - illegal- phone-in office took 2 and 3 year subs which have now been spent - apart from the fact that it lost money!!! Funds ? Mmmm?

5.The same office misappropriated funds donated to a Democracy Movement branch. After a hell of a row the DM recovered the money

6. The new leader misappropriated BBC videos (at the time belonging to Mosaic Films)intending to sell them and the law stepped in, raided the offices and confiscated them

7. The press has been full of the goings-on in Brussels and in the UK of the new leader.

8. There must be more ex-UKIPpers than present members.

-----
Much of this and much much more caused the party to try suing me for libel. They lost!

I can supply copies of an aide-memoire of 18 months / 2 years ago on request (just click on my name at the bottom of this posting) or accept Martin Cole's invitation above.

[Richard]

I remember seeing Farage on Question time once. He insisted on bringing the EU into almost every question when he answered. Didn't do much to dispel the image that they're a single-issue party. Even as someone who wants out of the EU I find constant banging on about it tedious.

[Chad]

Indeed Richard, then we all remember the awful "it's not racist" Tory posters from the last election.

Forunately both the Tories and UKIP seem to be getting their arse in gear. Of course we are rivals, we are different political parties, but we clearly share and overlapping ideology, so there seems lots of sense in arguing issues, and very little in attacking one another.

[James Maskell]

Chad, from what youve heard from Cameron, do you really think our parties are that alike?

[comstock]

UKIP? Das ist den rocken schlock!

[Richard Carey]

Indeed Richard, then we all remember the awful "it's not racist" Tory posters from the last election.

Indeed, Chad - that campaign was what it was, and despite some tremendous successes in many target seats, unlike some on here I don't deny facts - the Conservatives lost the argument overall on that occasion.

Fortunately, as you say, the Party has been changing and DC is leading us in a new direction, which I fully support. We will not lose the next one (even if it involves thrashing one or two UKIP candidates again along the way!!)

[Sean Fear]

Tim,

I think UKIP need to organise themselves better. This is much more important than their policies.

Instead of fighting a local council seat, winning 15%, and then never fighting it again, they need to focus relentlessly on those seats where they have the best chance, and fight them again and again. It's what the BNP do, successfully.

They need to stop fighting 450 or so seats (mainly with paper candidates) at general elections, and focus on those seats where they are strongest say. 60 or so.

Effective targetting is the way to make a breakthrough, for a small party; not trying to run before you can walk.

[eublues]

The Tories under Cameron winning the next election will be digging us in deeper.

[Richard Carey]

Instead of fighting a local council seat, winning 15%, and then never fighting it again, they need to focus relentlessly on those seats where they have the best chance, and fight them again and again

If they're not bright enough to figure this out for themselves, do you really think it's the most helpful thing for us to be explaining this to them?

[Chad]

"Chad, from what youve heard from Cameron, do you really think our parties are that alike?"

Hi James,
Leadership no, members yes!

Cameron is entitled to chart his own course, he was voted in on a "change" agenda after all.

Nigel was voted in on an agenda to develop a full range of domestic policies around a small government, low taxation approach, so although these kind of values may well make Dave squish up his nose like a bad smell, and I'm sure many of his members will find them quite attractive.

[Albert]

Chad, You have so far ignored the post by Christina Speight. Have you read it? Has any of it registered with you at all? Or because it does not confer with the views you've held for about 3 months is it therefore irrelevant to you?

"Well, I'd guess they were a bunch of clueless monkeys whose strategy was all over the place Lucy. Is that straight enough for you!"

Who more than Nigel Farage directed the UKIP campaign in 2005?

[Antony Calvert]

"Well clearly you are not going to "destroy" UKIP."

Errm, have you seen how many people actually voted in the leadership election?? There really isn't very much to destroy.

At the next election the centre right vote will unite behind DC, of that I am totally sure of. UKIP will get 400-500 votes in some good Tory constituencies but not make a jot of electoral difference.

They are as irrelevant a party as Nads Choble is a person

[hf]

We do need to avoid insults when talking about UKIP.

As Christina and others have stated they are a party in rapid decline, split by factions with Farage as their Leader a "Boris Johnson type". Nigel is a very effective speaker but is disorganised and has more than one skeleton in the cupboard.

Face facts their membership has halved in 2 years! It is a bigger decline than Labour in the same period. And Nigel states as one of his priorities is "sorting out" the opposition in his party.......

If you meet UKIP people be nice to them, they need a new home!

[Yet Another Anon]

Effective targetting is the way to make a breakthrough, for a small party; not trying to run before you can walk.
They are a large enough party to get media attention as well as the Party election broadcasts, they are far and away the 4th largest national party - at the moment most people think they are a single issue party so the places where their highest votes are anyway may not be the best place to focus on, if they can afford it then why not put up candidates across the country, campaigns these days are much more national anyway - television, radio, internet, newspapers - Nigel Farage was already better known than Roger Knapman and now is even more high profile in becoming leader even if no other UKIP candidates succeed he has a good chance of winning a seat and so further raising UKIP's profile.

[David Banks]

Lets all be nice about , and to Chad - who is a top bloke whose contributions are always interesting and frequently witty.
Antony Calvert , it is just so childish to piss about with someones name to denigrate them. For God's sake grow up.

[hf]

eublues said "The Tories under Cameron winning the next election will be digging us in deeper."

The only 2 parties capable of winning the next election are Labour or Conservatives, but there is a ral risk that the Lib Dems will hold the balance of power. They are the most europhile of all.

The one effect of UKIP has been is to reduce the number of Tory mps. It is a sad fact. UKIP has actuallly helped Lib Dems win seats especially in the South, now why would they want that?

[David Banks]

To polarize the electorate between two equally radical alternatives , thus creating the illusion of an Either / Or situation. Yawn. This is all a bit GCSE.

[Yet Another Anon]

They are the most europhile of all.
Except that none of the 3 main parties is proposing withdrawal from the EU, indeed of the 3 the only one who since the UK joined the Common Market has ever had a policy of withdrawal is Labour in the early days before Harold Wilson changed his mind and later under Michael Foot and the first couple of years of Neil Kinnock's leadership after which Labour's national position switched back to supporting the EC and even became fanatically enthusiastic about it, the Conservative Party became slightly more sceptical but really in government did nothing about it and merely extended what was already there, rather amusingly the Liberal Party (the bit that didn't join the Salads aside from the SDP under David Owen of course) under Michael Meadowcroft have decided that the Liberals were wrong in the first place to endorse it and want to pull out - the result though has been that each successive government either finds that they meet a stonewall in Brussels or that they end up extending what was already there and no doubt people in Labour in the 1970's were hoping that the next Labour government would withdraw and people in the Conservatives at the same time hoped the same from one of the 2 main parties.

[hf]

So Yetanotheranon, how does keeping the Tories out of power help in the fight on the EC?

The others will just take us in deeper, possibly irrevocably.

Some of UKIP seem happier to kill the Tory party than fight the real europhiles.

[Yet Another Anon]

UKIP has actuallly helped Lib Dems win seats especially in the South, now why would they want that?
The Conservative Party has put up candidates on a Unionist ticket in Ulster, surely this just helps Sinn Fein's and the SDLP's hopes of winning seats there as opposed to the UUP\DUP\UKUP who actually have prospects of winning seats there?

[Chad]

What if a more working-class UKIP conservatism makes a breakthrough in areas that wouldn't touch the Tories?

It is not a zero-sum game between UKIP and the Tories, but the challenge of winning round the non-voters and Labs with a small government agenda.

Labour and the Libs, on the left, as we know conspired to damage the Tories, now perhaps it is time for the c-r to give them the same back.

All the new ideas, the innovation is coming from the c-r. Why fight each other and possibly split votes as you fear, when we could work together as Labour and the LibDems did?

So, the result is 2 or 3 UKIP MP's. Surely that is better than losing 20+ seats to the Libs sets after vote splitting?

It's not just UKIP that needs to use its head and think tactically!

The Tories are as guilty for split-votes as UKIP. Get together guys and work to bash the socialists!

[James Maskell]

Farage has such a cute boyish charm to him, look:

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41874000/jpg/_41874602_farage203.jpg

[James Maskell]

Link dont work. Link the following bits together...

http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/41874000/

jpg/_41874602_farage203.jpg

[Chad]

Hmm, I can't say I'd choose him over Emmanuelle Beart though James....

[Yet Another Anon]

how does keeping the Tories out of power help in the fight on the EC?

The others will just take us in deeper, possibly irrevocably.
Neither of the 2 main parties really has much of a record on rolling back the UK's membership of the EU, at least the Liberal Democrats have been honest about it, so far as I can see David Cameron and indeed David Davis and Malcolm Rifkind were just standing on a variation of that tired old agenda of "Being in Europe but not run by Europe", unless the rest of the EU is going to become part of a new British Empire I don't quite see how that could be, certainly it hasn't happened so far, there is no sign that the EU Presidency or the Council of Ministers is prepared to begin to roll back the powers of the EU, indeed the only candidate to raise the suggestion even that the withdrawal from the EU might have to be considered was Liam Fox, if David Cameron came out and laid an ultimatum down and said "Either this is achieved or the alternative is that the UK will leave the EU unilaterally if neccessary and with use of military force if neccessary" or some such thing then why should anyone suppose that neccessarily things will be any different.

[Old Hack]

This is the same guy that had to be poured into taxis by his aides? How many Poles does he have in his whisky cabinet?

The frustrating thing for UKIP is that we are just under 3 years from the next European elections in 2009. What's euro-headbanger to do in between?

Seriously though, this was an acrimonious leadership election, far bitchier than either the Tory or Lib Dem contests. I suspect that Farage will be incapable of uniting his fractious party. It will become increasingly strife ridden. This will deter potential support and stimy any potential electoral progress.

[James Maskell]

Wait a sec, Farage wont even be running the party on a day to day basis? Hes leaving that to Campbell Bannerman. So hes just a figurehead?

[Yet Another Anon]

The frustrating thing for UKIP is that we are just under 3 years from the next European elections in 2009.
There is likely to be at least a couple of Parliamentary by-elections before that time and more Local Elections, actually another reason (this occurred to me as I was typing this sentence) the next General Election might be on the same day as the 2009 Euro Elections and Local Elections is to save Labour money on the campaigns, 3 for the price of 1.

[Chad]

No, he's left the day to day running to me. ;-)

Seriously though, no, you are misinformed, Nigel will be running the party.

Quote from his campaign site:
"As the elected Leader of UKIP I would cut my time over there [Brussels] to 6 or 7 days a month, and the rest of my working time I would devote to domestic UKIP affairs, including making sure that, in your words, "the admin is well done"."

[Richard]

"What if a more working-class UKIP conservatism makes a breakthrough in areas that wouldn't touch the Tories?"

Maybe I'm making wild generalisations here but don't working class Tories tend to be more attracted by tough law and order than economic liberalism? In which case wouldn't it be better for Farage to put more emphasis on social conservatism than small government (which isn't to say that they can't go together, just that the emphasis should be different).

[James Maskell]

Wow, 7 days work a month for that gravy train...man, what a living! You might wanna complain to the BBC then...

[Richard Carey]

What if a more working-class UKIP conservatism makes a breakthrough in areas that wouldn't touch the Tories?

Then I guess that's a good indication that the Conservatives need to do more to get our messages across in those areas, and explain how Conservative policies would help improve people's lives there.

We have a FPTP system, Chad - there's little gain from voluntarily giving seats to other parties. I think I understand what you're trying to say, though - and I agree that to remove Labour from Government, it's better to let LibDems and the minority parties take votes from Labour if the electoral arithmetic means a Conservative genuinely can't take the seat. I would be very cautious about where this is applied, though, and would prefer to give winning there a good go first!

[Henry Mayhew]

Well done Nigel. Now we have a real opposition in this country.

[Richard Carey]

Sorry, should clarify:

"minority parties" in my post above means the usual array of fringe organisations minus the BNP. I don't want to see them win anywhere, even if it does help the electoral arithmetic it would be far too high a price to pay.

I'd rather it didn't include UKIP either (sorry to break the consensus Chad!), but you can't have everything...

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"Seriously though, no, you are misinformed, Nigel will be running the party.

Quote from his campaign site:
"As the elected Leader of UKIP I would cut my time over there [Brussels] to 6 or 7 days a month, and the rest of my working time I would devote to domestic UKIP affairs, including making sure that, in your words, "the admin is well done".""

Presumably he'll cut down on the allowances and expenses he claims as an MEP accordingly.

[Richard Carey]

Presumably he'll cut down on the allowances and expenses he claims as an MEP accordingly.

Of course, yes, because their previous "leader by vanity" Robert Kilroy-Silk refused to draw his expenses when he went missing for long periods, didn't he?

Where is Kilroy, by the way? He's still my MEP (worse luck) here in the East Midlands - I think I should be told what the permatanned one is doing for the allowances that I pay him.

See folks - last time UKIP had a "big success", that was what you got for your trouble!

[Tory Bunny]

yawn.... UKIP, IKIP everybody go to sleep. If UKIP can't hold it's deposit at a time when the Conservatives are unpopular what chance do they have when we're on the up. To win the election we need to overturn fairly big majorities, if we do that we annialite UKIP as an incidental to the process of beating Labour and the Lib Dems. UKIP are of no consequence to me. All UKIP do is provide Norman Tebbit with a break - DC has someone else to disagree with!

[Antony Calvert]

"Lets all be nice about , and to Chad - who is a top bloke whose contributions are always interesting and frequently witty.
Antony Calvert , it is just so childish to piss about with someones name to denigrate them. For God's sake grow up."

Sorry Bavid Danks

[Andrew Woodman]

I think Mr Kilroy is topping up his tan in his Spanish villa Richard. He came to my hometown during that election and got chucked out the local supermarket for campiagning there. Dreadful man.

[Greg Lance-Watkins]

Kilroy Slik may well be odious but to be fair he has asked more written questions in the EUropean pretend Parliament than all the UKIP MEPs put together with around 266 since election, Ashley Mote (also ex UKIP) had asked 155 until lodging a further 20+ iwell researched questions in the last week. Farage is UKIP's top performer but then again all the staff work for him and he has asked 92 though many were repetitive - there are several UKIP MEPs including Derek Clark from EMidlands who have asked none but one could well ask what is Clark for!
Tom Wise on the other hand, who loiters around in the EU as if he has no home has also barely asked any questions but he has been busy sorting out his undeniable fraud having possibly decided to emulate the EU in his methods, with spare bank accounts and poor accounting to shelter fraud!
Much as I can not stand Kilroy Slik fair play to him he scores well in work output even as an independent when compared with the achievements of UKIP MEPs who seem to have 'gone native' or be involved in scams like people trafficking!
Regards,
Greg L-W.

[Tam Large]

The simple reason that UKIP do not have any MPs is the first-past-the-post electoral system, not any failing on their part. A Party which gets 12 MEPs elected (on the proportional system)cannot be dismissed.

I am still (just...) an active conservative, but as I see the Cameron Party drift to the left of Labour, and ditch the policies and principles which underpin its beliefs and grass-root support, I cannot but begin to see UKIP as the "Real-Conservative Party". If the temptation is great for me, as a committed 30+ year activist, how much greater it may be for an average non-committed supporter...

[changetowin]

For every vote we might gain from courting UKIP we lose two more.

[Albert]

Chad has posted here since my post, Christina Speight's post and Martin Cole's post and ignored all 3 of them for some reason. David Banks suggests that people should be nice about and to Chad. Chad is today a member of UKIP. He runs something called ukiphome.com which appears to have an intense agenda against the UKIP oriented www.democracyforum.co.uk & some of the moderators there who disagree with his agenda. A major reason for his objection appears to be that opponents of UKIP eg Conservative party supporters are permitted to be members there & post comments. He wants a members only forum to replace the existing forum. Yet he spends a large amount of his time here as an active opponent of the Conservative party.

There is a timestamp of 7.57pm on Chad's website which refers to him eating a bacon sandwich before he will place his report there. Fair enough but he then made several posts to this place before his report was posted on his website! His keyboard must be a pretty sticky place tonight I think! Or was he not eating a bacon sandwich at all. Mrs Chad please advise!

[Nod Chable]

Leave poor Chad alone.

He has an ego that needs massaging!

[Matt Davis]

The danger of UKIP is not so much that they will win seats from us, but that they will need tsplit the right of centre anti-Labour vote, which should all be ours, in the target seats that we must win back from Labour and so allow the mock socialists to hang on to them.UKIP can seriously electorally damage us without actually winning anything at all in a General Election.

[Bruce]

A lot of what is being said here about the UKIP was said about the Reform Party in Canada 15 years ago. The Progressive Conservative Party in Canada (yes, "progressive" was part of their official name) tried to ignore Reform and the issues Reform and Conservative voters cared about. Reform ended up swallowing the PCs, and ex-Reform party head Stephen Harper is now PM of Canada.

Concerns about the EU and about immigration, to name just two issues, are only going to increase. The Tory party can either accomodate voters with those concerns, or else these voters will (logically) look for an alternative.