Should Mrs T receive a state funeral?

ToryDiary will return to today's terror plot tomorrow... in the meantime it would be good to receive readers' opinion on whether or not Baroness Thatcher should be honoured with a state funeral.  I hope, of course, that the whole question will be academic for a good number of years and there is something a little inappropriate in discussing the issue.  We are discussing the issue because Downing Street has written to a Labour MP to veto the idea of a state funeral.

Yesterday's Daily Telegraph slammed Downing Street's intervention as "very bad taste".  Agreeing that it's premmature to be conclusive about the idea of a state funeral, Stephen Glover, writing in today's Mail, nonetheless thinks Mrs T deserves an honour that hasn't been bestowed on a peacetime Prime Minister since the nineteenth century:

"There are millions of British people — not just Tories — who will believe that Margaret Thatcher’s political achievements should be honoured when the time comes.   Not many of us who can remember the 1970s would want to go back to them. This determined, stubborn, sometimes maddening and, above all, brave woman did make a big difference to our history. In most respects it has been a good one.  Shelve the issue for the time being. There should be no unseemly public argument about Margaret Thatcher’s funeral arrangements. But, when the time comes, we must give her what she deserves."

I was interviewed on Radio 2 this afternoon and argued that it was important to establish whether Mrs Thatcher actually wanted a state funeral but given her worldwide reputation - as an iconic standard bearer for British values and for democracy - Britain should certainly be open to honouring her in this way.

Comments

[Mark]

Quite morbid. I can only imagine what Mrs T thinks of this discussion.

[Andrew Woodman]

Of course she should. Hopefully by that time, more people will realise what she did for this country. I just hope we are in Government when it happens, so non of these left wing MP's can try to veto the idea.

[Goldie]

What a distasteful topic. You should be ashamed of yourself -- and delete this ridiculous discussion.

Thank God Mrs. Thatcher is still alive and doing fine, thank you very much.

[Yet Another Anon]

I think that maybe the State Funeral should be given a State Funeral - leave people to be buried by their families privately, maybe have a public commemoration if the need is felt.

[Umbrella Man]

Everyone famous would like to see what the obituarists have written... I should imagine Mrs T is quite interested in this discussion. She reversed the decline of Britain and of course she deserves a state funeral IF SHE WANTS ONE. Now is the best time to find out.

[EdR]

Not that morbid -- she is 81. Obviously, I hope she has another good couple of decades in her, but it's prudent to discuss the matter before it's too late to do anything about it anyway.

At any rate, the answer is yes.

[Jon Gale]

Who on this site is going to disagree?

[Umbrella Man]

Jon Gale: Who on this site is going to disagree?

Jack Stone?

[Annabel Herriott]

Of course she should have a state funeral!
The lady is iconic.

[David Batt]

While I deplore the sheer idiocy of the comments made by the political secretary of Number 10, I don't think we can answer this one while our great former leader is still with us. A state funeral is an honour that is not just rare but exceptional, and while her achievements are enormous we should remember that a state funeral would put her in the company of only Wellington, Gladstone and Churchill, none of whom aroused the partisan passions at the time of their passing (I like the American expression, "calling home") that Baroness Thatcher is, alas, still likely to do.

I fear that to support the proposal to give her a state funeral, though richly deserved, would be seen by too many in the Labour Party an admission that they were wrong all along. A pity: it doesn't need to be, and there are decent people in their Party who would not see it that way.

[Yet Another Anon]

Gladstone of course only had a State Funeral because Queen Victoria insisted that he have one.

[Yet Another Anon]

Apparently Lord Henry Palmerston had a State Funeral as well apparently at the insitence of Cabinet Ministers, Disraeli was offered one by Gladstone but chose to be buried privately.

[Geoff]

I strongly believe that Lady Thatcher should have a State Funeral. Annabel Herriott's use of the word 'iconic' is perfect.

However I'm slightly unsettled. If the threshold for a State Funeral is serving about 10 years as PM, fighting a disloyal Chancellor, initiating a few wars and sending Old Labour members into apoplectic rage then sooner or later the Grauniad is going to suggest the same for Bliar.

Just think of the prospect of world leaders being forced by diplomatic protocol to turn up at Westminster Abbey and listen to Post-Box Mouth eulogise about her ex-husband and how much his years of office swelled the cashflow of Matrix Chambers and the rest of Human 'Rights' business. Turn up to that memorial service? I'd rather nail my ears to a horse.

I'm still on balance very much in favour, but just like the Honours system I can see State Funerals being deliberately devalued and passed out to any obscure socialist. Peerage, anyone? Ask "Lord" Levy the size of the loan required to get you a shiny funeral...

[John Coles]

I know that you have a difficult job to do, Editor, but I really think that Conservative Home is beginning to show a disturbing lack of good taste. Baroness Thatcher - not Mrs T - is alive and this discussion is utterly inappropriate. In recent days there has been swearing on this Blog, a recommendation for a certain form of homosexual activity and a scathing reference to pensioners as a group.
I wonder whether this is all the result of the huge void at the heart of party policy - in the absence of matters of substance, everything else is up for discussion.

[Nick Macintyre]

Should Tony Blair receive a state funeral?

[Geoff]

John Coles (x4!) I sympathise with your comments on the taste of discussing this whilst the great Lady is still with us. I would feel disturbed if this thread was about my funeral plans for me.

However the topic is being discussd in public between Labour MPs and although it is appropriate to respond by expressing our distaste that Labour have put their conversation into the public domain we should also consider how best to mark her achievements.

I believe there is a spare plinth in Trafalgar Square awaiting a permanent statue...

[Geoff]

Nick Macintyre: Should Tony Blair receive a state funeral?

Well, I know a couple of shady Russians who might be able to start the process for a small fee...

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Doesn't Tim clearly address the reason it is being discussed. The fact that a Labour MP found it necessary to raise the issue because apparently some of her constituents weren't fans of the former Prime Minister, and Number 10 clearly attempted to appease her.

Yes its not the nicest of topics to raise - but it is being discussed elsewhere, and it would seem a little strange if it wasn't mentioned on here.

[Tory Bunny]

Of course she should, but come to that it might be an idea to make it an option for all former PMs, after all they have served the state at the highest level(for better or worse!)

[Geoff]

...served the state at the highest level...

I believe that honour and burden lies with our Monarch. The Bliars, as we know, imagine differently but the fact remains.

[Mike Clarke]

What presumption! It is a matter for Her Majesty alone.

[Conor Burns]

Editor, I am actually very disappointed that this subject has been raised here. It lowers us to the disgraceful level of that hitherto unheard of woman MP who wrote to Blair and the ghastly man who responded. The one thing that letters do show is that this is still the Party of the 9/11 "good day to bury bad news" variety. It is surely not accidental that the whole thing comes up when Blair's party is split over the unfolding tradegy in the Middle East and the utterly discredited Prescott is left in charge? You can almost here the spin machine in full flow 'lets do the Thatcher thing and throw a bone to the left'. Utterly disgraceful and disrespectful. Can anyone imagine how hurtful this all is to Lady Thatcher's family? How upset will her two grandchildren be if they were to read about a debate about their Granny's funeral? For the record Lady Thatcher, who has just returned from her summer holiday, is in very good health and form and looking forward to an active period ahead - including participating in next year's commerations of the Falklands. I fancy that Mr Blair, and his sucessor, will be LONG gone before this subject merits any attention whatsoever.

[sjm]

Baroness Thatcher should have a private funeral and a full-scale memorial service in Westminster Abbey. I sincerely hope neither will be required for many years to come.

[TaxCutter]

I can think of no better way to wind up lefties

[David Brackenbury]

Aren't Geoff and Mike Clarke right here?

The decision to award ANY subject a State Funeral is one that should be made by the Head of State and her advisors. When I last looked, HM the Queen was sill the Head of State and I hope that the decision will not come up for a considerable time!

What is shown here, however, is a dangerous assumptipn of powers and perogatives that this Government have been so keen to embrace,which challenge the delicate framework of our democracy.

[Selsdon Man]

We should be talking about how to celebrate her 90th and 100th birthdays.

Long live Maggie! Death to socialism, especially in the Conservative Party.

[Editor]

Selsdon Man: "We should be talking about how to celebrate her 90th and 100th birthdays."

Mrs T: "What a good idea!"

[tn1487]

It would be criminal not to give such a major public figure, with such a long career a send off not befitting her standing.

Preferably though, I would like to see the celebrations for her 90th and 100th Birthdays.

Any arrangements would have to consider extensive press coverage and a great deal of national interest-so the government may as well roll with public opinion as opposed to against it.

[Serf]

She deserves one. But I hate to think of the whole thing being destroyed by Socialists. You know they would.

I agree with those who say we should be talking about celebrating her 90th & 100th birthdays.

[William Norton]

Queen Victoria probably insisted Gladstone have a state funeral so she could be certain he was actually dead...

[George Hinton]

Given that Thatcher brought the UK kicking and screaming into the late 20th Century, and put the Great back into Britain, it is no surprise that the socialists and New Labour are reluctant, if not loathe to celebrate her life by granting a state funeral.
That decision is of course politically motivated and spiteful. If it wasn't for Margaret Thatcher and her reforms New Labour would not exist and B-Liar would most certainly not be PM and he and Cherie would not have the lifestyle that they have. The same applies for many other New Labour types.
Whether or not a state funeral is organised, those that benefitted from the many reforms that were introduced will pay their respects. I certainly hope that many trade unionists will remember her for at least one man one vote, which reformed the unions and brought in democratic standards that were sadly lacking.
It would of course be wrong to campaign for the event, Maggie has not yet passed away, but we should undermine this decision with all our powers.

[changetowin]

For those of us who admire her leadership, pragmatism and courage she will need no state funeral to be held in the highest regard.

But I suspect most on this site would, with me, want her to be honoured in the way we honour our greatest leaders. And I also suspect that most on this site find the whole discussion a more than a little sad and distasteful.

[Henry Whitmarsh]

She's not dead yet!

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

This will probably be an unpopular view here but I don't think that Margaret Thatcher should have a state funeral, simply because of the practical implications attached to such an event.

The mind boggles at the scale of the policing operation that would be required to prevent disruption of the event, given that Margaret Thatcher is widely loathed outside southeastern England - it is not too hard to find vile talk amongst small-minded, vindictive socialists of 'champagne on ice for Thatcher's death' and it's not too difficult to imagine how the more extreme of these nutcases would react to a state funeral in her honour.

While I'm not suggesting that the threat of disruption by mindless cretins should be reason enough to not grant Margaret Thatcher a state funeral, I do feel that such events are all too often a drain on resources that could be used more effectively elsewhere, and as such, should only be reserved for royalty and, in exceptional circumstances, national heroes (the proposed state funeral for the last WW1 soldier springs to mind).

An official memorial service would be a fitting tribute to Margaret Thatcher I feel.

[ewan mcqueen]

maggie deserves a sate funeral as she was te greatest ever prime minister but she will live on and on

[Dave Manning]

No - she destroyed this country and killed many thousands of people and left millions jobless. Although if she were to die soon I can't say I'd be complaining if she did - at least she's gone.

[Dave Manning]

No - she destroyed this country and killed many thousands of people and left millions jobless. Although if she were to die soon I can't say I'd be complaining if she did - at least she's gone.

[Sean]

COMMENT OVERWRITTEN

[Wayne Brighton]

Bring it on. I'll be among the millions following, in full song " ding dong the witch is dead the wicked witch is dead"