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I think, Ben, that the left long ago established a monopoly on >pretending< to care for the poor. We don't want to join them in that field.

Now we have to be sure that Mr Cameron's concern goes beyond mere soundbites. I was listening to the World at One and, really, it seems that very little income will be raised through these "green taxes".

Steven Norris, who certainly ought to know something about transport, was interviewed for the programe but he shed very little light on the situation. Osborne was, frankly, a real disappointment.

The consensus seemed to be that only way to effectively raise tax revenue would be to soak the poor old motorist once again.

NOT a good idea I think.

bright jacket


Hurrah he's a risk taker!

Re the photo, they look embarassing.

"Give me a million like you and I'll be rich on the advertising income ;-)"

Yeh and there would be a million more tickled people in this world too.

Green taxes are, in the end, new taxes. I suppose they can be acceptable if the overall tax burden fell.

First time I've ever seen Osborne cycling.

Probably the last time as well.

Re green taxes etc. Need to see some detail but have concerns about tax rises on cars. Most areas outside of London need cars. This could impact hard on "strivers". Here in Wales there is no public transport of any real use to most of us. We ned our raods which are falling to bits and we need cars (including 4X4s) in this part of the world,


Ben Redsell - I'm a Conservative by nature because I believe in reducing the power of the state, in preserving and protecting individual freedom, in minimising the amount of a person's earnings taken by the state, in helping all to find independence to mould their own lives, in helping those in trouble out of their troubles. in protecting the weak.

What do I get from my party. A broken promise, espousing highly dubious Green ideas, a refusal even to set tax cuts as an aim (even if not an immediate one) a series of nauseating photo-ops and now the first policy - A Tax RISE when the economy - let alone social justice - demands tax cuts.

Gordon Brown with his means-tested tax credit scheme is reducing some of the poorest to dependency on the state. It is the same people who pay the greatest proportion of their income in tax. It's a scandal totally unaddressed by anybody in the Cameroon camp.

If "growing up and moving with the times" means supporting Cameron's backing of all that is wrong with NewLabour's Britain then he's not going to get my vote nor that of many who've fought for the party all our lives. It's a NuLab -LibDem takeover.

Christina I agree with almost everything you say.

But Cameron is our man. We simply have to bring him gently round to doing things the way we want.

There's too much wet influence on him at present. People like Maude, Osborne. They won't be here forever. Those guys are as welcone in our party as a dose of clap in a whorehouse.

Get rid of the misfits. Keep Cameron and make him secure in his Toryism.

Why can't Conservatives back a winner?? Come on, guys, get behing DC. We may point to semantics to grumble about, but this guy is now FAVOURITE to become the next PM (rather than caretaker PM) and we should be backing him.

Having said that it seems that the more opposition floating voters hear about DC from within the more they tell pollsters of their support for him.

The problem is, Antony, it's going to be a very long time before the next election. Labour aren't fools. Theu're going to get their act together.

Blair will be gone and much of the present opprobrium with him. Everybody's banking on Labour choosing Brown, but what if all those calculations are thrown right out?

Suppose Labour choose someone young fresh and unexpected who "talks the talk"? If they do that they will have stolen just about all the clothes we have which, frankly, don't amount to a great deal.

That's the problem with this current Tory one-man cult. If he's trumped - we're stuffed.

"If "growing up and moving with the times" means supporting Cameron's backing of all that is wrong with NewLabour's Britain"

Christina, that is my point of view entirely.

One of my colleagues (a socialist) reads the Independent treason-rag and I take a look at it from time to time. The far-left rubbish they print is almost indistinguishable from the the nonsense currently coming from Conservative Central Office.

A couple of days ago, on the FRONT Page, the Independent was calling for unlimited EU immigration (ie cheap labour to undercut our own workers). This appalling message was backed up by a group of fatcats from business, all of whom are members of a Eurofanatic (ie treason) group.

Cameron should be fighting these leftists not saying things to please them. I last sat on a bicycle about 40 years ago and I have no intention of repeating the experience simply to please the loony left of the Tory party.

When will David Cameron take the lead in attacking these anti-British traitors in the press? I call them traitors because that is exactly what they are.

I'm not holding my breath.

Christina if you are a Conservative for those reasons, then we should both want exactly the same things from our party. But none of these things can be acheived whilst we are in opposition. You do understand that don't you?

DC won the leadership partly on the strength of 'Change to Win, Win for Britain' and that is what we have to do. We haven't lost the last 3 General Elections by not being right wing enough. Everyone now accepts, apart from UKIP loonies and idiots like the EDP that the votes to win are in the Centre Ground of politics. The polls show clear leads for the Conservatives since David moved us back onto the centre ground. Importantly they also show increasing support in the younger age groups, especially amongst those certain to vote. This is important for two reasons. If you look at your local association, I guarantee that your average age is about 60. If your lucky. Now in my local CA, the activists who were fighting the 97 election when I joined are the same people who fought last year. Just older and fewer in number due to age and the long arm of the reaper. Will these people be around in 2009/10? Some of them may well not be, and it is important for the long term future of the party to attract a younger membership.
All the Green issues attach themselves to two vital aspects. Firstly they are actually vital to the future of our planet, and without major change we will face environmental disaster which will lead to economic damage. Secondly green issues are some of the key issues as far as younger voters are concerned. David has succeeded in pushing them far higher up the agenda, indeed he has done more in the last year to push on the Green agenda than weird beard lefties have done in the last twenty years.
This stuff is now mainstream for most people under 30.
In conclusion I think you need some patience Christina. David will, in time, produce a Conservative manifesto for the next General Election, likely to be three or four years away. I doubt there will be much in there you dislike. Just be patient.

As for Mr Barton, much as I dislike the idea of turning away Conservative voters, if you honestly think the British press are all virulently pro immigration and pro Europe, I suggest you p*** of to the BNP/UKIP where you belong. For pities sake man, do you honestly believe we lost three general elections because we weren't right wing enough? Get over it.

Now in my local CA, the activists who were fighting the 97 election when I joined are the same people who fought last year. Just older and fewer in number due to age and the long arm of the reaper. Will these people be around in 2009/10?

Same everywhere Ben.

Coming back to this idea that we lost allections because we were "too right wing" that's rubbish. Research has shown that people liked the policies. They just didnt like the fact that they were associated with the "sleazy" Conservative Party.

Ben, however much you dislike it, most people in the Tory Party are "right-wing". You've just described the average age of your colleagues. I'll bet they not only wouldn't agree with your lefty ideas. They probably wouldn't even understand them!!

David Cameron has MADE the change. Bright new image and a break with "Tory Sleaze" Now we need the radical tax-cutting and patriotic policies to fill in the gaps.

Ben, unless you want a Tory left/right civil war I suggest you get on board with the rest of us.

Ben, its been almost 9 months...the framework we have at the moment does not give a good sign. Bearing in mind that Christina appears on the right, I doubt she's going to like it all. I suspect she will like many others of us, be very disappointed at it.

Hear! Hear! James.

Ben will disagree with you on that. Nobody else of significence.

"The mountain brought forth..."

I'm sorry guys, I am a regular poster on Mr Smithson's 'other place' where I am considered by many as a right wing loony Tory! I just think that we need to remember that the party is pretty much useless while it is in opposition! We cannot carry out ANY agenda from opposition!
Now I am very active in my association, and I attend a large number of events. I grant that there are people who mutter grumbles, and yes there are some people who don't like change and even one or two who have stopped coming to events. However the vast majority of these active Conservative members are really supportive of Mr Cameron, believing that even if they don't support everything he is doing from a Centre Right perspective, he is going to be Prime Minister after the next election, so long as we all work to that end TOGETHER.
I can remember knocking on the doors two years ago under IDS and being laughed back down the path. We weren't credible. I remember being called a right wing idealogue under Michael Howard. I like the fact that people are no longer embarrassed to tell canvassers they are Tory. And I was impressed to have people in the locals telling me they were 'voting for Cameron' even though I live in Suffolk. It is easy to knock, but we are on the right path, and it ends back in Downing Street.

I have no doubt that there will be a well scripted centre right manifesto at the next GE from the Conservatives. You're right in one sense, there will be things that AREN'T in it that Christina and her ilk would like. However I have no problem with that. Maybe someday she should read Mrs Thatcher's 1979 manifesto. I doubt she would agree with much of that either.

Sorry, but you guys are not in touch with the majority of Conservative voters or activists. Look at the polls. If thw world hates what DC is doing, how come we are 9% ahead in the latest ICM, continuing and extending a trend that dates back to the conference last year? Don't tell me it's all because of the breakdown in the Blair government, because the biggest part of that was about 2003/4. Since then it's been re-elected because the electorate couldn't bring itself to vote in Michael Howard as PM. They are more prepared to with David Cameron.

Christina is so far to the right she makes George Bush sound like a Liberal.
She must be one of the very few who actually believes that global warming is a figmant of people`s imagination. Global warming is happening and is facing us with some very difficult decisions we have got to face up to.
Christina and her fellow right-wingers had the answers to the party`s and the countrys problems over twenty years ago but times have moved on and they do not any longer.
The path being laid out by David Cameron and the leadership is right for the party and right for the country. It will lead to electoral success and make our country a better place to live.
I am afraid if you don`t like what the party is saying you should just go off and support someone else and leave those who do believe we are on the right track to work to get DC in Downing Street.

There is nothing remotely right-wing about you Ben Redsell and as for Jack Stone I doubt that he is a Tory at all. I haven't a clue who Mr Smithson is. Some other leftist I suppose.

I did not attack the entire UK press. I attacked the pro-EU treason-rag The Independent.

The real problem with the Tories, is they have become used to losing to Labour. They are almost in awe of Labour in a way and unlike Blair, who carved out his own image, based on playing on the things that were wrong with the UK, they have tried to imitate Labour.

It's a bit like Labour trying to be like Major's Tories, just as people were sick of them and wanted a change in direction. If Blair had done that, they would not have won, or if they had it would have been by a weak enough margin to disable them.

Labour got fed up of losing to the Tories and went on the offensive, with Blair destroying the party in the process, but they were desperate enough to let him.

Cameron is destroying the Tories, but totally weak and out of tune with the real concerns of the public. This is why they still can't a dsicredited Labour party that most people are sick of.

The harsh reality though, is Cameron knows he can only promise what Labour are already doing, because the orders come from Brussels in the main now. They had a taste of the slap down at the last GE, when Howard was told he couldn't do certain things that he promised.

You are basking in a false dawn. I notice that Mr Redsall joined the party only a few years ago and I don't suppose Mr Stone has ever been a member at all.

Ben, unless you want a Tory left/right civil war I suggest you get on board with the rest of us.

Who is "us", exactly, Malvolio? Ben seems perfectly in tune with the Party's current direction, and I quite agree with him.

Ben, I'm sick of people carping when I'm working to win, too. Welcome aboard! I am always intrigued how many people here only want to get to our destination if they're the one driving...

Jack 1641 yesterday "if you support UKIP you support the re-election of the Labour Party because that is exactly what you will get if to many people vote for them. If you are a Conservative you support the Conservative party."

Then this morning 0841 you say "I am afraid if you don`t like what the party is saying you should just go off and support someone else and leave those who do believe we are on the right track to work to get DC in Downing Street."

Jack don't take people for granted and assume that we have no choice if we are centre right than to vote the Conservative Party back in to power when they're talking of policies and new ideas for the future that we don't agree with. If you don't want to listen to small c conservatives I hope someone is reading our concerns.

"I am always intrigued how many people here only want to get to our destination if they're the one driving..."

Err...wouldn't that apply to you likewise, Richard.

We tried the left-wing approach under Heath and later Major and look where it got us.

All Cameron's curent "success" can be put down to Blair's failure.

Err...wouldn't that apply to you likewise, Richard.

Do you know me from sonewhere, Tony? Or what do you purport to base this on?

I've worked (hard) on elections and by-elections for the Party under different leaderships and strategies since 2001, including on sucessful target seat General Election campaigns.

So no, it doesn't apply to me, I want to win. And yes, I do support DC's approach, he's finally taking us into the current century. The only thing I regret about it is the speed of delivery of change by the Party on the ground, which could be faster.

Sorry, neglected to close italics

I'm sorry Mr Barton but that simply isn't true. Although I'm no expert psephologist, even I can read the polls, and the underlying indicators show a clear direction towards the Conservatives. And this is not about Labour voters not voting, this is about more people being prepared to vote Conservative. I don't see how DC's success can be Blair's failure exclusively.

John Major got more votes than any other PM in history, if I recall correctly.

Yes I only joined the party a few years ago. 1997 to be precise. Google my name Mr Barton. You'll find me on suffolkcc.gov.uk. I only joined in 97 because I was only born in 79 and I joined when I was 18. Does that make my view somehow less worthy? I can tell you this, for you to have such a narrow view of the world you clearly haven't spent time on the doorstep in a marginal. I have. Lots of it. Including 18months working for the party full time for free. So don't lecture me on how to be a Conservative.

I want to see a new Conservative government. I don't want to see a fourth term Labour government. I fear Brown, even more I fear Reid, Milburn, Johnson or Benn, Miliband etc. Another nine years of this lot would do terrible damage to this country. That is why I am supporting David. Because he can win. Because he WILL win. Why are you so determined to prove the Taxpayers Alliance right and remain stuck in the 1990s?

"I want to win. And yes, I do support DC's approach, he's finally taking us into the current century."

Like I said Richard, you want you, or somebody like you, in the driving seat.

Sauce for the goose, eh?

"John Major got more votes than any other PM in history, if I recall correctly."

Yes, and look what happened to him.

All Cameron has under his belt is a few opinion polls. I doubt he'll even matcch Major's "success".

"I only joined in 97 because I was only born in 79 and I joined when I was 18."

That figures. Come back when you've had some real experience chum.

I just closed the italics for you Richard.

Can't you get anything right?

Only someone with access to the editing facility of the site can correct html errors. I've just closed Richard's italics.

The problem with taxes on consumption is that they tend to be very regressive. They fall disproportionately on those on low and fixed incomes.

For that reason alone we should be very cautious about altering our tax system in such a way.

I also have deep reservations about effectively taxing lower earners out of air flight and other travel. Those with the financial means or on expenses will continue their current behaviour patterns.

It is very much a them and us policy. The proles shouldn't be allowed to use budget airlines and the like. Very very snobbish and wrong for this party to promulgate such a view.

Yes but anybody can stop italics spreading to all the other messages by inserting "< forward slash i >"

If anyone wants eveidence of a deep and rapid decline in a constituency's membership under Dave, just compare the electoral commission submissions for last year and this year when it's posted for Sevenoaks. From 1200 to 900 (and falling).

Ben Redsell - I disagree with your closely argued statement for several reasons. Firstly we lost in 1997 because of the debacle over leaving the ERM and the shattering of confidence in the economic competence of the party - hitherto its strongest point. This was compounded for many of us by the way Major refused a referendum and bulldozed (by the skin of his teeth) the Maastricht treaty through. The latter drove me from the party.

UKIP is not so loony as your slander suggests! Its leadership may be but it represents enough of a mainstream attitude to attract more votes in the euro-elections than the LibDems (2.5 if my memory serves me right). All of these 2.5 million are footloose - me included and they have been joined by other long-term Tories horrified by Cameron's antics.

Hague consequently never stood a chance but Howard was making good headway but age made him stand down (I wish he hadn't). If he were here now he would be making hay with Blair's daily disasters and the Home Office shambles would be under the scrutiny of the most successful modern Home Secretary.

As an ex-pollster I take all polls away from the actual pressures of an election with a bucket of salt. But only one shows the 40% necessary to gain power and that one, only just! Another puts Brown well ahead of Cameron. And the latest shows little gain by Cameron in the group with the most consistent voting turnout record - the 50+s.

And we get no crumbs of hope. On a day when Blair proposes a monstrous infringement of civil liberties and erosion of parental rights we get Cameron hobnobbing with a seriously flawed pressure group - Friends of the Earth - ; Osborne proposing to put up taxes (when they have got to come down) and build a totally new MagLev rail network.
WHERE that is to run and who is to pay and how he squares the enormous electrical demands with the FoE connection beats me.

They're all seriously deranged and and as far as I can see, possibly even more so than New Labour. So why vote for them?

Jack Stone is at it again. Idid NOT say - and specifically said so - that I disbelieved in Global Warming. PLEASE do do misquoye me.
What I did say was that the idea that it is man-made is serioiusly flawed. Already the ozone layer gap is closing itself, sunspot activity is passing its peak and we're about due for another major volcanic eruption like those in the 19th century which lowered global temperatures massively. These things go in cycles and it is only government funded scientists who subscribe to the man-made theory.

Don't know if you'll pick this up Christina as you've probably moved to the new thread, but I'll try.

Firstly I have every right to call UKIP/BNP insane, the original candidate in Suffolk Coastal resigned when the local paper revealed his attendance at a BNP rally. He told me he would vote for me because I had a picture taken with an member of an ethnic minority (he used more intemperate language)

As an ex-pollster you will know the value of opinion polls is in the trend they show, not the individual polls. Therefore the trend which shows Conservative leads growing is what you should focus on.

I found on the doorstep IN REAL ELECTIONS that Michael Howard turned floating voters off. Whatever the policies they just couldn't bring themselves to wake up with Michael Howard as PM. That isn't the case with David Cameron.

Just because UKIP gets more votes in a Euro election than the Lib Dems doesn't mean they aren't loony. Merely less loony than the Lib Dems.

Whatever Blair says is irrelevant because he won't be around long enough to enact the necessary legislation. So his intervention on 'asbo babies' is pointless.

What GO was proposing was to increase the proportion of taxes that came from Green Taxes. This presumably means there will be tax reductions in other areas. Isn't that more to your liking?

I can't comment on your decision to act like King Canute over climate change. It is true that one of the holes in the ozone layer is slowly being repaired, but that is consistent with the removal of CFC's from daily use in most of the world. Yes there are weather cycles, but this one is noticeably faster than others - go and speak to some farmers who are wondering why spring now starts in January!

Ben you are not going to reason with Christine for two reasons. Firtly she doesn`t want the Conservatives to win unless the leadership parrots every last dot and commer of her views that belong to the last century not this and secondly she doesn`t understand the meaning of the word loyalty!

Firstly I have every right to call UKIP/BNP insane, the original candidate in Suffolk Coastal resigned when the local paper revealed his attendance at a BNP rally. He told me he would vote for me because I had a picture taken with an member of an ethnic minority (he used more intemperate language)

THat paragraph makes no sense whatsoever. Do you mean this candidate told you he would NOT vote for you? Was he UKIP or BNP? You don't seem to be able to tell the difference.

Not that I can tell the difference between you and a LibDim anyway. Presumably you think UKIP are "loony" because you are a Eurofanatic.

As for Jack Stone's whinge about "loyalty" the man clearly has no loyalty to his country whatsoever. I don't believe he's even a member of our party

Malvolio: You are off topic again. I will delete your comments and ban your IP address if you continue to drive threads off subject.

Good Afternoon, im unsure whether I should be allowed to post on this site but found it whilst searching along the strings of new VED taxation for next year in advance of purchasing a car. But perhaps after reading all your wise entries you might take note of the common man who doesn't vote. Ever thought of actually providing the solution and showing us the way? Has any party sat down with oil companys and engine manufacturers and said, "Guys, the uk needs a solution and it needs it now. We need a means of propulsion which is green and can handle the very many applications our population finds themselves in. So that when we heavily tax gas guzzlers and indeed jo public they have something to turn to.
I'd hate to think the billions in revenue and profits from the last 50 years + of the combustion engine and associated fuels have meant no one actually had a certified contingency to its demise or saw it coming.
At 15 I could see this being a problem and I am now 30.
Ten years on and the best ive seen on this blog about doing something about it is geared around tax changes not actually going out as the potential leaders of this country and getting a solution for your people.
Am i wrong and naive and politically out of my depth, or is a potential government or government in power actually supposed to help its country proactively not just manage its present situation. If I am all of these things above I am the voter that isnt voting and I am the person you need to convince. Labour isn't great, they marketed well and it made us think we'd be lead well, but much like any other party they haven't really done anything new, Lib dem's have the right idea but no punch, Lead the way, but do it by producing solutions or at least pushing them, not by taxation and problem management.

apologies for any typo, my inability to subtract 15 from 30 correctly, and if this wasn't inline with the general thrust of the blog.

Good points. By the way, its ok for you to post here, you're welcome to do so.

thank you - wasnt sure.

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