"That blue thing with red flames"

That, according to James Naughtie, is the current Conservative logo, the Flame of Freedom in an item this morning on the proposals to change the party logo.  The Today Programme is suggesting that people email them with ideas as to which animal best represents the modern Conservative Party. How helpful of them. Iain Dale trailed the item on his excellent blog yesterday and went on the programme to represent the voice of reason but I'm not convinced Mr Naughtie was listening. The Guardian has also got in on the act with suggestions of a Cup of Blood, a Barbed Wire Umbrella etc etc, (although, being the Guardian, they dated the emergence of the torch to 1987, which is several years too late).  I'm sure they mean well.  Just like Pol Pot.

The Flame has had a chequered career, apparently invented on Lady Thatcher's orders when she noticed the Party didn't have a logo. It has gone through various incarnations:

(1) the squashed ice cream cone:

(2) the burning ice cream cone:

The logo was revamped when Kenneth Baker became Chairman - summed up by The Telegraph at the time with the phrase "excuse me old chap, do you mind holding my ice cream for me? It seems to have caught fire".

(3) the dynamic swirl:

In various shades, either blue or yellow. Brought in by William Hague.

(4) the socialist realist torch:

It's time to roll up our sleeves and storm those barricades - brought in by Michael Howard in 2004 (and still the official version for use on ballot papers).

(5) the caring, sharing socialist realist torch:

Which is what we have at the moment.

There's a running theme here: when the Party wants to mark out decisive new territory, it changes it's logo.  And why not?  I spoke last night to the highly-trained management consulting team at Norton Industries (they were in their cage holding a tea party having just typed up a play about a mad Dane who thinks his uncle killed his father - but that'll never catch on) and this is what they suggested:

You'll notice immediately that it comprises a shield (because we'll protect you); a laurel wreath (because we're winners, and green); and the Union Jack (because we believe in the British Nation, One Nation etc).  You'll notice even more immediately that it isn't very good - which is why I am prepared to make it available to CCHQ for the bargain basement price of £50,000 + VAT and p&p.

Can you do any better?  As strong believers in the wisdom of crowds (and the hope that we can save zillions of pounds for the Party on rebranding consultants), we are unveiling another Conservative Home Competition: Design The New Logo.  Impressive judges to be announced; exciting prizes to be unveiled shortly (probably a Wish You Were Here T-shirt from Gaza, or wherever Montgomerie's gone) to be presented in the near future at a prestigious Central London railway station.

Send us your suggestions - even better, some mock-up images.  Bonus points for those who suggest outlandish new fonts.  Tips to bear in mind: it has to symbolise what the Conservative Party is (now?) all about; it has to be distinctive; and above all it has to be easily reproduced in miniature form on a ballot paper without becoming undecipherable.  Enjoy.

William Norton

UPDATES: Email submissions to [email protected]

Click on images to enlarge them

For reference here are the Welsh Con, UUP, Scottish Con, and DUP logos:

Kris Fogarty:

Chris Palmer:

Ash includes the Home Nations:

Jon Gale uses the popular Oak tree idea:

Keir Gravil:


Michael Alldis:


Ted Coffin:


Sam Oakley's phoenix, horse, lion and oak leaf:



Matt Johnson offers a template:

Kieran McDonagh:


Krieg Barrie (ConservativeHome's resident artist):

Comments

[Simon Holmes]

Whatever the new logo is, it would help if it was still recognisable when reproduced in miniature on ballot papers. The current one conspicuously fails in this respect, which can cost a vote or two in council elections.

[Chad]

Surely the new logo will simply be the word 'conservatives' in Catull BQ font, each letter alternating blue,red, yellow, blue,green, red etc.

I'm sure Google, being the official Tory search engine now, won't cry foul. :-)

[kingbongo]

I've said it on Iain Dale's blog and I'll say it here - can't we anglicise the GOP Elephant?

It would save a fortune, demonstrate our commitment to our American friends and anyway, everyone likes elephants.

They're strong, reliable, look after each other and have the family at their centre. They also come from two parts of the world that will influence our development as a nation over the next twenty years - Africa neds to be helped to develop and India will help shape our own development.

Simple!

[Andy Peterkin]

Naughtie might as well wear a red rosette and have done with it. How has this Labour shill stuck around with a supposedly impartial broadcaster for so long.

I invite people to draw the obvious conclusion.

[Simon Chapman]

We need to incorporate a bicycle somewhere - a clear symbol of party unity & iconography, appealing as it does both to Cameroonians and to Norman Tebbit.

[Kris F]

The best emblem for the party would be a Blue Lion Rampant. It symbolises Great Britain and would attract many people who currently mistakenly support right wing parties. It is also a strong symbol won that makes the Labour partys wilted rose look rather pathetic. Perhaps it isn't quite inkeeping with the caring conservative approach but it would be something to appeal the the traditionalist Tories who must be feeling abit left out at the moment.

[Deputy Editor]

A bold move would be to somehow incorporate the Union flag. It wrongly has negative connotations but it would be a great way of reclaiming it from the far-right. DC could talk about it "symbolising what unites a diverse nation" etc.

I know its unlikely to happen as it would be difficult to incorporate into a simple iconic logo, and most strategists would shirk at the thought of the leftie cries of racism and excessive nationalism... but if any recent Tory leader could pull it off it would be DC.

[Richard]

The ice cream was appropriate due to Margaret Thatcher's involvement with the creation of Mr Whippy ice creams.

Personally I think we should adopt a blue flag of conservatism (with an arm holding it if necessary) to distinguish us from the Red Flag wavers in the Labour Party.

On second thoughts, that sounds quite dull. Keep the ice cream.

[Richard]

Deputy Editor,

While I take your point I think there is a big risk involved with trying to adopt the national flag for a political party's logo. It begins to imply that to be loyal to Britain you have to vote Conservative (something many non-conservative patriots will be insulted by). Essentially it politicises national loyalty, something that should cut across party boundaries. No party should have a monopoly on our national flag. Even UKIP don't use it.

[Ulster Says No]

A cross between a lion and the Union Jack .... sounds like the DUP.

http://www.dup.org.uk/images/DUPLogo.gif

[Cllr Francis Lankester]

keep the torch of freedom

[malcolm]

I think it's very wrong of you William to charge our party £50,000 plus VAT plus p&p.Can't you at least walk round to CCHQ and hand deliver it to save the party postage costs?

[Sean Fear]

A hammer and sickle logo would demonstrate that the party had changed.

[Mitch]

How about a bulldog? Or is that too truculent an image for the Cuddly Conservatives? They can add a spiked collar when they get serious about fighting Labour to win.

[Serf]

It shouldn't be any animal that is endangered.

Havign seen the damage that they do to Roses, what about Green Fly.

[Sean Fear]

"How about a bulldog?"

In a Union Jack waistcoat.

[Kris F]

Alternatively how about two hands in a hand shake gesture, one blue edged in red, the other white edged in blue?

Sound OK and acceptable? Or a bit wet?

[johnC]

The danger with abandoning our current logo is that it might imply that we were weakening in our commitment to freedom. Couldn't the torch be re-vamped to look a bit less like a Mr Whippy's 99 cone ?

As an alternative I would suggest an oakleaf - green, British, and reminiscent of the forces of conservatism: see Burke's 'Reflections on the French Revolution'.

[Colin]

Why not have a blue moon? That's how often we've been winning elections recently!

[nadim]

I still prefer my new multi-cultural, multi-ethnic option - a white square stained by chicken korma.

[Deputy Editor]

I agree with you Richard, I was just pondering the possibility of a Union flag really.

Kris, this picture made by Chris Palmer (as linked in the newslinks) is similar to what you are suggesting!

I like the green fly idea Sean, although I think the rose in question is wilting anyway.

johnC, perhaps I'm betraying my youth here but I've only heard about the torch symbolising freedom a couple of times - it seems to have very much lost its meaning.

If anyone wants to draw up an amateur logo (you know you want to) send it in to me at [email protected] and I'll put it up.

[frank aylesford]

a multi-coloured jellyfish to represent the party under cameron - spineless and directionless

[johnC]

'I've only heard about the torch symbolising freedom a couple of times'

I've always assumed it was based on the Statue of Liberty in New York. What else might it symbolise ? The Olympics ? Can't see the relevance, apart from Seb Coe.

[William Norton]

Malcolm: I think it's very wrong of you William to charge our party £50,000 plus VAT plus p&p.Can't you at least walk round to CCHQ and hand deliver it to save the party postage costs?

If you think I'm walking to Victoria St from Canary Wharf you can... have another think. I don't even walk that far for a pub.

[johnC]

P.S. I forgot the oak leaf's already been bagged by the National Trust so that's out.

[Stephen B]

Well, you could also appropriate the Scottish Conservative logo but I'm not sure it's really distinct either.

Basically, anything that can make the snappy title of our association look good gets my vote ("Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey Scottish Conservative and Unionist Party" - we aim to push all other party names off the ballot paper).

On a more serious note, I appreciate that we are talking about logo design primarily but any change in accompanying fonts needs to take into account the fact that not all associations have access to the latest fonts for their websites etc (eg I think the 'Cameron Campaign' font is something like Lesmore - someone let me know if I am wrong - which I don't have). Otherwise you'll end up with each association looking just that bit different and mildly disorganised (not that we're the only party with this issue).

[Robert McIlveen]

How about a blue armadillo? Looks hard from a distance but up close it's soft-centred and loveable.

[malcolm]

Sorry William.On second thoughts perhaps £50,000 plus vat is a bargain for the party,it's certainly less than British Airways paid to have their planes tailfins redisigned.We must all remember how successful that was!

[Alison Anne Smith]

How many roads must CCHQ travel down before it admits that its lost? The Party should ditch the current angry worker logo & go back to something "radical" such as "The Conservative Party" printed in blue. Think of all the stationery the associations have to bin with each new idea...not very environmentally sound Mr C. Hopefully some branches will still have some old stocks stashed away !

[EdR]

Although I'm not a tremendous fan of the torch, it has a certain appeal ahead of the London Olympics...

[Dan Hassett]

I've always liked the UUP's logo: The Union Flag shaped like Northern Ireland. Maybe we could adopt a similar principle with the outline of Great Britain & Northern Ireland? Not that the UUP's been all that successful of late!

[SimonNewman]

"As an alternative I would suggest an oakleaf"

Much though I like shields and lions myself, this is the first obviously good idea I've heard, whatever the National Trust say.

Hmm, I suspect the Conservatives will have trouble coming up with something good; this seems to be a problem for most English (non-Celtic-fringe) political parties. If we get anything as good as the DUP lion I'll be amazed.

[Marcus Wood]

I think an Oak tree might work. British through and through, strong and stable, with deep roots, offering shelter.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"I think an Oak tree might work. British through and through, strong and stable, with deep roots, offering shelter."

A fine choice - also used by the secondary school I attended, so I may be biased...

[Kris F]

A Blue Oak tree, yes i suppose it is a good idea, British and Traditional but also appealing to the Go Green, Vote Blue ethos aswell. I still like the blue lions though, and i'm definately biased.

[Patsy Sergeant]

I like the rainbow, because it is a symbol of hope, but I suppose it might be more expensive to print, and some people will think it is naff.

I dislike the hard blue and red of the Union Jack, blue is right and red is left, but green is for health and yellow represents the sun and positive growth things (not The Sun!).

I like the idea of the oak tree, but does it have to be the hard unnatural blue, could it not be the blue nearer to green, that appeared around the local elections?

[David Banks]

How about any of the followng:
a simplified compass image , signifying that the party is leading people towards a better future.

A blue lion holding with its front paws a shield with the union jack on it

a blue star

a union jack in the shape of a star

Or a blue phoenix rising out of red flames with a Union Jack on its breast and the motto 'unity is Strength' above it

best of all , retain the torch

[don't want to be unpopular but]

I think I'd avoid the Union Flag, because I see little hope of the Union remaining, at least in it's current form. The English are feeling more English, the Welsh more Welsh etc. This messy devolution settlement is unlikely to last, so we either go federal or split, although obviously remain friendly neighbours. Jumping on the fact we are a unionist party is a losing cause. the other factor to remember is in Northern Ireland the Conservatives announced they'd sit as neutral members in the assembly not Unionists.

[ThePrince]

I don't know if this has been mentioned but an Oak Tree is the best choice if stylised correctly. Deeply conservative and traditional yet green and if the design is well thought out modern to.

[ThePrince]

... yes ... yes it has, sorry.

[SimonNewman]

David Banks:
"A blue lion holding with its front paws a shield with the union jack on it..."

This is the kind of image that comes to my mind too, but I'd hesitate to recommend it - I doubt anything that smacks of patriotism will be considered as the left-media would attack it strongly.

"Or a blue phoenix rising out of red flames with a Union Jack on its breast and the motto 'unity is Strength' above it."

I think we're too much a bunch of individualists for that motto, it sounds a mite totalitarian. :)

Personally I like the torch too...

[SimonNewman]

"the other factor to remember is in Northern Ireland the Conservatives announced they'd sit as neutral members in the assembly not Unionists."

I expect that's more to do with the assembly's weird rules and them working out that they get more influence if they register as neutrals.

I agree about the oak tree - both environmentally friendly and reminds us of our glorious naval past and many victories over the French! >:)

[David Banks]

Dear Simon Newman
Well thanks for your input..totalitarian.. i don't think so , - its just the plain fact that the UK gets a lot more done as a unit than a balkanised collection of statelets ( re: comments above about alledgedly doomed nature of UK).

The oak tree , in Europe is often a symbol of centre left ( their equivalent of red rose , post red flag)
It is only when it has a crown on it that its a traditional symbol here due to Charles II, hiding in oak etc. Should we appropriate crown as well as tree? Queen may
be miffed.

Ok so people don't like the Union. Shame.
the key is not to give up on the union and its symbols but to reinvigorate the union itself. Would love to write a big article for this website on that very issue.

Anyway, look i've got to go off and organise cadres of muscular blueshirts to march on london......

if i was advocating armies of muscular blue shirted youth taking to the streets and marching on London you would

[Jon Gale]

Why did none of these people think an oak tree was a god idea when I suggested it the other day? (sobs quietly)

[David Banks]

Apologies for chaotic ending of last post, losing my glasses does not aid my typing.
The two main points are
1)KEEP THE TORCH
2)THE TORCH IS GOOD

Yes, we can juggle with lions and flags till we are blue in the face ( another logo idea) but the torch is great and part of our heritage.

Dave Banks

[David Banks]

Dear Jon
Yes the oak is great, but the Royal Oak as a symbol of our monarchial tradition not as a symbol of the forward thinking , forward moving, rainbow alliance, too sexy by half, ultra hip Tory party that we are now meant (?) to be.
look lets just have something corporate and boring.
Like a blue double headed eagle with broken fetters on its legs, with the world in one claw and an AK47 in the other and the slogan , 'the world is ours and the fullness thereof' winding around its vast feathered body.
Or a peacock
You know something kinda dull

love
Dave

[Annabel Herriott]

What about a Mountain Goat? Never gives up, always striving till it gets to the top of the pile, and you could always alter the torch to make horns.

[A H Matlock]

If the torch of freedom really must go, then I too favour the suggestion of an Oak tree or an Oak leaf in some sort of stylised arrangement. This is something that is resolutely English without waving a red flag at Scotland and Wales, and it would also accentuate the party's new focus on green issues, nature and environmentalism nicely.

I think using a lion would be difficult as it is already in use by the DUP, and while I am not opposed to incorporating the Union flag I don't really care much for the UUP logo. The Welsh Conservatives have an excellent one with the dragon, but it does rather limit its use to the principality.

[Julian Morrison]

http://www4.upload2.net/download/zI49TDhJByDDxS1/lions_logo.svg
Bob, the lion.

[Og]

I get the distinct impression that some of your contributors have been reading Iain Dale's blog, and following a suggestion I made there at lunchtime.

"Oh dear..... grammar schools and small-but-excellent government (to name but two sound, not unpopular policies) can be ditched without consultation with the party, but the corporate logo becomes a free-for-all.

A fairly good rule of thumb is not to trust the public on matters of taste. Otherwise you become the Davina McCall party, which can't really be for the betterment of Britain.

My own choice would be an English Oak in all its glory, reaching into an azure sky. It's a green thing in a blue world, it suggests permanence and reliability, and it trumps the rose which did so well in the days before the Great Noo Labour Unravelling. "

A few thoughtful folk agreed that it had an outside chance.

A straw poll at lunch before the Arundel cricket today approved the idea by 7 to 2.

[David Banks]

OK i give in. The oak is a great idea. But not a blue one. Lets have a nice green one. how about a green oak leaf on a blue disc?
Or.. , how about

A) Britannia - remember her? she would look great as a logo with shield, helmet,recumbent lion et al. Also she is a woman. Thats diversity!

B)A picture of lord Salisbury, who was a top man and would make a good icon.Of course on a Disraelian theme how about a primrose ( anyone remember the Primrose League?)

C)A picture of St george killing the dragon. Colour the dragon red and you have got a good logo.

Now i know that the logo is meant to relate to todays tory party so how about .. a BEEHIVE
( industry, community etc)

OK i know i know oak leaves it is!

[Og]

NOT oak leaves. They may be fallen. Oak TREE: a fecund plant, bound to increase its height and reach year by year.

I still think this is my idea from 1.34pm on Iain Dale's blog.

[Julian Morrison]

Trouble with a tree is that it's awfully hard to capture all that snazzy treeness in a two or three colour line-art image. Too easy to end up looking just generic and vaguely corporate. Leaves are actually a better bet, logo-wise.

[SimonNewman]

Dave Banks:
"its just the plain fact that the UK gets a lot more done as a unit than a balkanised collection of statelets"

No argument from me, I'm always saying that an all-UK football team could actually win the world cup some time. :)

My personal tastes are lions and shields and swords, but I'm an Ulster Unionist by background and I suspect my views aren't exactly those of CCHQ on this.

[David Banks]

Ah well , i'm a Catholic Unionist.. we are like Ulster Unionists but rarer.

best wishes
Dave Banks

[Tam Large]

Why bother? Logos, re-branding and suchlike are inherently un-conservative and smell of spin and fakery. Keep the current one and show some consistency (maybe the only consistency left...).

When will politicans realise the public isn't fooled by this sort of empty puff. It is what we believe and what we DO which matter, and it is those things which will influence the public.

[Julian Morrison]

Tam Large: actually I disagree with you. Not with the idea that the public hates puffery. With the assumption that a change of logo must be meaningless. Symbols are important! The trouble with most re-branding is that the old symbol was far more powerful than the new, and that the new symbol stands for anodyne nothing (in an overdesigned, swoosh sort of way). For example, of all the official Conservative symbols up top, the "squashed ice cream cone", the first one, is by far the most powerful. The others were overfancy downgrades.

What would it mean eg: to use a lion or another symbol of direct britishness (rather than the mere union colors)? It would mean committing emotively to a rollback of the internationalist erasure of British uniqueness. It would be plainly read as such, and the Toynbees would explode in a panic of condemnation. That's how much power a symbol has!

[David Banks]

Great so lets stick with the torch , even better lets go back to the orignal flavour. And if we have to get rid of it by some party diktat from on high please can we replace it with a riot of blue lion /shields/ union flag designs. i'd like to work in some swords as well ........
Symbols are very important. Indeed they are crucial to apolitical party.Hitler ( boo hiss) would never have suceeded in taking over Germany if he had used a Lib Dem orange parrot as his symbol. People would have laughed and said 'look he is a Lib Dem'. But stick a Swastika onto your bird and it all gets very nasty. Uniformed thugs and world domination beckon. Ah the power of symbols..

[Deputy Editor]

Today's Telegraph:

Sir - If the torch of freedom is to be extinguished as the Conservative Party logo, then what should replace it?

May I suggest the English oak: sturdy, green, dependable, long-lived, immune to continental diseases, historically the wooden wall of the Royal Navy and (with Charles II) the preserver of the monarchy.

Keith Topley, Cowes, Isle of Wight

[David Banks]

Thanks for that. the oak must be a stronger contender if its in the telegraph, but referring back to a point made excellently above by julian Morrison, it would be hard to have an ok tree design that was recognisably an oak but that would be simple enough to be reduced to a letterhead style logo. it would just tirn into a blob which may or may not be a tree. whereas an oak leaf would be easier to render as a logo , and would retain associations listed above. also on the continent while the oak tree is often a symbol of the centre left the oak lef is the symbol of nobility. So for reasons of clarity and ease of reproduction i think an oak leaf , particularly a green one on a blue background is much more practical than a fiddly , fussy tree.
But what do i know.. blue lions and flags ahoy....

[David Banks]

Okay by 'tim' i mean turn. Really musn't stay up all night again..

Maybe we could have a big oak tree as the party's official logo and then the leaves on stationary, letters, websites etc.

i think the curving edges of the oak leaf would make a great outline motif around the word 'Conservative' in the style of the DUP logo.

If we went for the oak leaf/tree idea, do you think we could revive that hymn 'Hearts of Oak'? How about DC doing some tree planting?

[SimonNewman]

Looking at the logos above, Ash's lion logos look the best to me, esp the one with the red flash. The oak tree logos don't look to great, I can see that it may be difficult using an oak tree successfully in a small logo.

I like our torch's symbology of freedom - in our philosophy we need to emphasise freedom now more than ever. Labour's contempt for liberty and our devotion to it as a core value is perhaps the single greatest party divide and the thing that most unequivocally puts us on the side of the angels. Whatever logo we choose, I hope it doesn't detract from that.

[arthur]

The obvious, the logo that symbolises all British politicians, 'the kipper' two faces no guts!

[A H Matlock]

I agree that Ash's lion logos look very good indeed. Well done. 'Conservatives.. Moving Scotland Foward' with the thistle is also excellent.

I still like the idea of an Oak tree or an Oak leave but, with great respect and thanks to Jon Gale for his fine attempt above, I have yet to see one to my liking that incorporates it.

[Gregor]

Please please please no sodding oak leaves or trees, every other school and leisure centre in the country has one as its symbol.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

The efforts of Ash are my favourite - I particularly like the national variations.

[Ash]

I glad you like them, I have just added an oak tree design as well. I have too much free time lol

[Patsy Sergeant]

I think the word Conservatives with 'Moving Britain Forward' underneathe and with the lime (new) green and navy blue hand symbols above is interesting, as the hand shapes are reminiscent of the Ying and Yang symbol.

Although I like the idea of the oak tree, the one depicted above seems not to know whether to be a lion or an oak tree!! I prefer the design on the right in bright blue with a designated border, it makes more impact.

[A H Matlock]

To correct my own post of 12.03 I meant 'Oak leaf', rather! How embarrassing.

[Ash]

"I agree that Ash's lion logos look very good indeed. Well done. 'Conservatives.. Moving Scotland Foward' with the thistle is also excellent.

I still like the idea of an Oak tree or an Oak leave but, with great respect and thanks to Jon Gale for his fine attempt above, I have yet to see one to my liking that incorporates it."

I have designed an Oak tree version and a very American style eagle version as well.
You can see it at the link below

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/collins56/treelogo-1.jpg

[Julian Morrison]

Despite my own earlier submission, I'd vote for Ash's lions. Very well designed! keep both of them, for different uses. The one with the flag slice can be for banners, the one without can be for letterhead, (because it could be monochrome and still work).

[Julian Morrison]

I've yet to see an "oak tree" image that couldn't equally have the text substituted with "Fotherington Magna leisure club and pool". I'm afraid that includes yours, Ash.

[David Banks]

Congrats to Ash on the very fine lion logos, I particularly like the one with a bit of the union Jack in it.That one gets my vote.

[David Banks]

Have just thought. Problem with oak tree may be that Lib Dem bird may want to nest in our leafy boughs.

[debbie]

Well you are not the only ones after logo ideas, i just saw this site on rightlinks - www.davesnewlogo.wordpress.com
could it be the leader himself lol

[Patsy Sergeant]

Yes I suppose the lions are very strong, with a hint of 'royal'! and a hint of sterling silver!!

[Ash]

Here are the ones i did not post into the competition - what do you think?

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/collins56/didntuse.jpg

[Ash]

PS dont forget to press the enlarge button so you can see the text lol

[Yet Another Anon]

How about Bluebells blending into a new Union Flag with the Flag of St Patrick removed and the Blue blending into Black and a Yellow Cross to add the Flag of St David included and and the Red Hand of the House of O'Neil with the Crown and a Sword so as to include Wales and recognise that the 6 counties remain British, it would certainly get discussed a lot in the media and could be the basis of a new official Union Flag that could be more representative of a new Britain.

[Yet Another Anon]

The Red Hand could appear on a White Pendant in the middle as it does in the Northern Ireland Flag or the traditional Flag of the Province of Ulster.

[jakman]

Dave on his bike, silhouetted against the moon (a la ET), with Blair in the basket as his advisor.

[James Cleverly]

Ash,

I really like the green and blue hands. I evenlike the strapline.

Good work.

[Richard]

While I said above I was wary about adopting the Union Flag I must say that Ash's lion logo with part of the flag in looks excellent. There's not enough of it in to seem controversial but enough to make it a very powerful image.

[ThePrince]

I think Ash's designs for the nations are brilliant but we would need a federal kingdom for that and I still can't get over the idea of the oak.

[David Banks]

Dear Yet another anon
like your red hand idea / new union flag a lot.

[keith]

Ok after looking at all the ideas it seems what you need is a logo with on the right a blue lion on the left a blue welsh dragon in the middle a blue thistle. The lion and dragon are holding blue torches and if you want to show support for europe you can have the union jack above the thistle and then all the flags of the european union in a circle around the logo. Hows that for modern. :).

[keith]

I noticed some people saying about a lion with the unionjack in it?. Wasnt this logo used in the tv series the new avengers with Patrick macnee, Joanna lumley and Gareth hunt. If my memory serves?.
So wouldnt ITV own that logo.

[Toryboy]

Here is my attempt:

http://img160.imageshack.us/img160/5808/conlogo9xy.jpg

[Matt Johnson]

Some nice attempts there... maybe to avoid the usual stereotypes though we should avoid anything with the union flag/ lions etc in? We can wave the flag without having it as our logo too!

[Ash]

"Ok after looking at all the ideas it seems what you need is a logo with on the right a blue lion on the left a blue welsh dragon in the middle a blue thistle. The lion and dragon are holding blue torches and if you want to show support for europe you can have the union jack above the thistle and then all the flags of the european union in a circle around the logo. Hows that for modern. :)"

Keith do you mean like this
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/collins56/mix.jpg

[sjm]

How about a double-headed black crowned eagle? I believe the Romanovs are not using it much at the moment.

[keith]

Keith do you mean like this
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y167/collins56/mix.jpg

Well ash i didnt know there was a logo similar to what i was thinking mine would have been more like the lion and the dragon facing each other with a thistle in the middle and the name conservatives wouldnt be on it unless it was required at say a party meeting that one you show looks like the lion is running away from the dragon :P.

[keith]

Some nice attempts there... maybe to avoid the usual stereotypes though we should avoid anything with the union flag/ lions etc in? We can wave the flag without having it as our logo too!

Matt Johnson.

See Matt the lion is a symbol of being English and British and its on the queens coat of arms. Or would you prefer we have a star or a crescent moon? or would you like to simply have a row of stars with some stripes?. I for one want the traditional!!.
BECAUSE IM ENGLISH AND PROUD TO BE.

[CJB]

I think Matt's actually got a fair point in what he says.

I am in no doubt those at CCO would agree with him - I think Keith's rhetoric is rather missing the point of where we want to be going as a party.

[Kris F]

I have just looked at the logos that Ash didn't include and i'm very impressed. I like the heart made up of Green and Blue ribbons, and i liked the blue man with his arms in the air. They are really cool.

[CJB]

p.s. I'm also English and damn proud of that.

I also am a progressive Conservative -

let's wave the flag, but we must also appeal to a wider audience as DC has shown. Without doing so (an a logo means alot in a media savvy world) we may as well resign ourselves to another 5 yrs in opposition.

[Richard]

"I am in no doubt those at CCO would agree with him - I think Keith's rhetoric is rather missing the point of where we want to be going as a party."

I would have thought the vast majority of the electorate had no opposition to patriotism.

[Matt Johnson]

in response to Keith: I am very proud to be a patriot and a conservative and lover of the great British institutions however we don't need to wear our patriotism on our sleeves or in our logo like the yanks -quite frankly it's rather tacky. A logo that projects our modern compassioante conservative stance would be much better and would appeal to the soft tory swing voters we must win back.

[keith]

CJB i accept your views. I will take it on the chin like a man. :P. I am not politically motivated, however. I am a taxpayer and pay the wages of all these "servants of the people". So if D.C wants to get into office he should be working on policy and not be worried about logos. I always admired Maggie because she never backed down and she was the best PM this country ever had. If D.C wants to win the next election then work on the younger voters the older ones already have their minds made up.

[keith]

Matt the only way to win back voters is to.
1. Lower the community charge.
2. Put prisoners away for the duration of their sentence and deport all foreign prisoners who are a danger, to the british public.
3. Give the police proper training in firearms.
4. bring back national service to sort out teenage crime.
5.Dont waste taxpayers money on stupid projects.
6.Stop giving MPs stupid perks and make it law that they be paid on a commission basis if they do their job they get paid.
That would certainly get my vote.
Actually Matt i must apologise to you as I never meant in any way you wasnt patriotic!!.
Its just a lot of the time we are told to not display our flag in our own country because it upsets people who are not british.
(Sorry everyone just being rhetoric).