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Not only campaigns; what about setting up a crack mobile police force to lend to the local force in such urban crime hot spots to saturate the place without prior warning for a few weeks and then move on somewhere else?

Good blog on this by the Taxpayers Alliance

http://www.taxpayersalliance.com/news/individual_blog.php?post_id=226

Agree that the ineffectiveness of Tony's Initiatives is a rich seam to expose - and dealing with the fear of crime as well as crime itself, which particularly affects the poorer members of our society, is a real thing that contributes to GWB.

Of course while Tony is at number 10 he'll rip off any good policies we put forward but hopefully his days and influence are numbered.

Then there is Mr Reid - one weakness he has is that he provides definite answers in interviews to deal with point/embarrassment. So during Foot & Mouth he said bringing the army in was a stupid idea when we suggested it, a few weeks later the army brought in. His latest was that HO process had caught the illegal workers, then it was pinted out they had been working for some time. I suggest a fact checker is put onto Reid by CCHQ to catch these mis-statements.

'having his three predecessors inside his tent pissing out. '

I wouldn't have expected a CHome Editorial to lower the tone like this. I am tempted to add Casual Vulgarity: Salisbury to the list.

I would agree that this could form the basis of sustained campaigning on where Labour have failed the poorest in society. Crime hits the poorest in society hard. Inner cities are traditionally Labour areas, but it is here we see the most graphic evidence of the failure of Labour policies. Family breakdown, gun crime out of control and distinct lack of GWB. Tie that in to talking about how to lift families out of poverty by taxing them less and giving them more opportunity to work rather than keeping them in poverty by making them dependants of the state and we could be on to something!

It is good to see our massed ranks concentrating fire on the enemy, however, once again I'm confused regarding the rules when it comes to profanity on CH, having once been censured on here for comparing the output of the BBC to the output of of a male bovine animal.

In using "pissing" I was merely quoting Lyndon Johnson's famous words. My apologies to anyone offended.

In using "pissing" I was merely quoting Lyndon Johnson's famous words.

Next you'll be encouraging CCHQ to allege that a prominent Cabinet member has had sexual relations with a donkey...

I can think of at least one Cabinet Minister who looks like a donkey...

How charming to find I work in the city where Im most likely to get my car stolen and or murdered.

The policy that went down best of all in my particular seat in Nottinghamshire was that of putting more "bobbies on the beat". I think what we need to focus on is variations on a theme.

By that I dont mean going down the Surreal Alternatives policy of advocating one policy in one street and a different one in another.

What we need to do is put the emphasis on certain policies in certain areas/ cities/ regions, and emphasise other policies in other areas.

Crime is an issue for Nottingham as is transport in the city. In other cities there may be very different issues that the Conservatives can provide the solutions for. We get the broad themes right and then localise then. A one size fits all approach to policy no longer works.

"More bobbies on the beat" won't help until there is a root and branch reform of police doctrine to remove all the liberal nonsense promulgated since the Sixties, and a new look at the rediculously over-prescriptive provisions of PACE.

Andy, I think its a policy that people support and a visible police presence has a clear effect on crime.

some good places to launch some hard-hitting campaigns on crime and a northern fightback

In Portsmouth ? :)

You know what I meant Serf!

Bloody southerners think everywhere above the Isle of Wight is northern now! ;-) By 'Eck!

Until you hear the word 'punishment' uttered by a politician, they can launch as many crime initiatives as they like, but no one's bothered.

Without fear there is no respect. Without respect there is no civilization.

Andy Peterkin @ 12:55 says: "More bobbies on the beat" won't help until there is a root and branch reform of police doctrine to remove all the liberal nonsense promulgated since the Sixties, and a new look at the ridiculously over-prescriptive provisions of PACE.

He is absolutely right, and if you talk to experienced coppers, they will say the same thing. In any community, there will be a few "wrong-uns" and a beat constable will, over time, get to know who they are.

The "cutting edge" strategy, then, is quite simply one of harrassment. These people are targeted and their lives are made, quite deliberately, a misery, keeping them off-balance.

Amongst the tactics used, your copper will knock then up at five in the morning and pull them in for "enquiries", leaving them in the cells 'till early evening. They will then take them for a ride in the countryside, dropping them off in the middle of nowhere, leaving them to find their own way home.

They will work with the traffic division - in the days when we had such things - to target the pubs where the scum hang out, and pick them up for drink-driving, for lighting or any other offence they can pull them in for.

These people don't pay their fines, so they can be pulled in for fine default on a Friday, after the Courts have closed, which means you can keep them in the cells until Monday morning until their case can be heard. You then leave them to walk home from the courts as, when you arrest them, you make sure they have no money on them.

Since these people live on the fringes of the law, and respect no authority, the coppers themselves have to work on the fringes of the law - they tell me that they have to engender, if not respect, then at least fear.

Thus, you have to have experienced and courageous coppers, who have the trust and support of their senior officers - themselves who know when to give their staff their head and when to pull them back if they cross the line.

The one thing all the coppers I've spoke to all tell me is that you cannot police "by the book", yet - they tell me - that is what is being forced on the beat constable, and which is being taught in police college. The toe-rags know this and are running rings round the police.

Putting pc PCs on the beat, therefore, is not the answer. It is the style of policing that makes the real difference. The more aggressive style must be restored.

One wasted policeman was stationed in the Buckinghamshire village of Granborough yesterday. He stopped me as I was driving through, told me I was exceeding the 30 mph speed limit, and let me off with a caution. What was the point of that ? If they want to control speeding through the village they should instal a speed camera, which is a genuine deterrent, makes everyone slow down, and doesn't waste any police time. Why invent speed cameras and then still use police to do their work ?

"Why invent speed cameras and then still use police to do their work ?"

Because speed cameras can't detect dangerous driving like tailgating, cars without tax, people with dead bodies or half a ton of hash in the boot and all the other crimes that happen on the road. I'd rather get rid of the cameras myself.

If they want to control speeding through the village they should instal a speed camera, which is a genuine deterrent, makes everyone slow down, and doesn't waste any police time.

Why not install speed triggered traffic lights, as are used to great effect in Spain, and thus actually reduce speeds rather than raise revenues?

I'm from Nottingham and live in Leeds. Perhaps I should go to Southend to balance out the crime rate?

Irritatingly my car just got broken into in Newcastle. Newcastle which is just under the national average for vehicle crime.

Crime is a big issue everywhere, especially the north. However, an intelligent approach is vital. Good policies, which obviously include prison and tighter immigration controls (would be interested to see estimations of illegal immigrant populations in these cities and London boroughs) must be married to an understanding of how to prevent the criminal mentality developing.

Rehabilitation is probably a major area that the UK does poorly in. Can it be improved and what are the links to mental health?

A serious look is needed at the drugs culture in the UK. I know that a lot of crime in Leeds is related to gangs/drugs and it is no news that that is the case in Nottingham. Forget the Iraq war: this is the real test of whether we as a party are hawks or doves. I urge Cameron to tell us which he is.

There is also an important factor in that the stronger a sense of community, the less likely a place is to be crime ridden. Policy can incentivise community. Communists think that by taking property away this will happen. I tend to disagree. Let's hear some policies about giving public space back to the people.

I was especially interested a few months ago by Cameron talking about how poorly designed estates can cause crime. I want to hear some more and he is welcome to come and look at the estate I live on in Leeds to make the point.

Jonathan @ 11.35 and Richard @ 16.52 offer good practical suggestions ("more bobbies on the beat", "emphasis on certain policies in certain areas/cities/regions" and targeting "wrong-uns" to make their lives difficult).
In addition, for more serious crimes, I feel we need a highly trained mobile police force that can move around the country (e.g. to Nottingham etc) with the aim of swelling the local force's numbers for a period to target serious crimes - under the general direction of the local force.
Given the horrifying lists of murders committed over the last year or so at the school gates, random security searches of pupils going into school should also be set up and all offensive weapons confiscated.
All these need extra police, largely freed from form filling and PC directives.

johnC @ 17:06 writes "One wasted policeman was stationed in the Buckinghamshire village of Granborough yesterday. He stopped me as I was driving through, told me I was exceeding the 30 mph speed limit, and let me off with a caution. What was the point of that ? If they want to control speeding through the village they should instal a speed camera, which is a genuine deterrent, makes everyone slow down, and doesn't waste any police time. Why invent speed cameras and then still use police to do their work ?"

Should we have a mandatory brain cell count as a qualifier for this comment section?

Generally, driving behaviour is more likely to be modified by intervention from a human being than a machine ... and while the cop is stopping you (and others) he is picking up "intelligence" on who is moving through the village. A large number of criminals are picked up through random traffic checks - pulling you may have been no more than an excuse to suss you out - what is known as "routine surveillance" - the essence of good policing.

We should look at having police and doctors co-located in schools so as to address social and health issues at their roots and before they get out of hand.

Matt

Police morale is at rock bottom due to political meddling. Many open and shut cases are not taken to court because the (Crown) Prosecution Service often drops politically incorrect prosecutions, or ones which make the figures look worse.

Political meddling must end. The word punishment has to come back into our cultural language. Centralising police forces will be the end of the police.

They need locally elected Managers, with no control from central government permitted, and a repeal of the HRA essential.

Or watch small parties grow in the polls to the loss of the Conservatives.

I only got to this thread a short time ago, and I must say it has provided more laughs than many others for a while!

Your thread was interesting Al Gunn, but as far as rehabilitation goes, don't you think that what we need in this country is a massive re-education and training programme for offenders. I know that there are programmes already, but obviously there are not enough, and also there is not enough pressure put on offenders and recidivists to go into training programmes - and stay on them. Then of course afterwards there would hae to be help, to get jobs.

Maybe someone could do worse than get some real details from the Prince Trust about how they 'ease' the losers right along the road to success!

'people with dead bodies or half a ton of hash in the boot '

I doubt if this is a regular occurence in the sleepy Buckinghamshire village in question. Despite the (rather rude) response to my comment above, I still think the Thames Valley Constabulary must have better things to do than tick me off for driving at 33mph on the school run. I'm no fan of speed cameras, but I do recognise that they free up police time for other purposes.

Personally i would like to see the party have a law and order policy that empthaised prevention as much as it did punishment.
Strong sentences and more police have a place but it would be better to put more effort into preventing crime in the first place.
Firstly I think that we must provide more outlets for the young. It is no good us complaining about gangs of youths hanging about the town centre when we have sold off the green where they use to go.
We need more schools opening in the evening where kids can go and spend there time,and our parks and green spaces used for past-times not concreted over for housing.
I believe we must have more cctv camera`s and help for people to install security devises in there homes. Also better street lighting which makes people feel safer and deters the muggers and the sex attackers.
We should not just have a policy of locking people up. We must have a policy that prevents crime. That means deterant yes but also rehabilation rather than punishment and prevention rather than cure.
People often look at crime and instantly think of the easy answer. Jail for everyone who steps out of line. Lets be more imaginative than that. Lets offer people something we think might work rather tha something we think they want to hear.

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