Cameron gaffe angers UKIP

The Guardian: "The UK Independence party today demanded an apology from David Cameron after he described them as "fruitcakes", "loonies" and "closet racists".  The Tory party leader's remarks came after Ukip threatened to use the Freedom of Information Act to force him to reveal the names of individuals who have secretly lent money to the Conservative party.  "Ukip is sort of a bunch of ... fruitcakes and loonies and closet racists mostly," Mr Cameron told LBC radio.  Nigel Farage MEP, Ukip's co-founder, described the remarks as "disgraceful. We demand an apology".  "We don't mind name-calling, it's politics, but in this day and age there are things you can't call people and racist is one of them," he said. He demanded to know "where and when" Mr Cameron was accusing the party of racism."

Also see BBCi.

Comments

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

I hope we don't have a pending lawsuit on our hands as a result of David Cameron's comments.

Is this really the sort of publicity the shiny new Cameron's Conservatives™ need?

[Tom Weiss]

Personally, I'm glad to see that Cameron is showing some edge.

[Michael McGowan]

If correctly reported, these kind of remarks strike me as anything but clever. They are not even new. The Tory High Command tried similar smear tactics in the run-up to the last European Parliament elections. They looked, and were a sign of mounting panic in the Smith Square Bunker and they backfired badly.

[johnC]

Well those sort of remarks, combined with backsliding over the EEP withdrawal, are really calculated to bring UKIP defectors back to the party aren't they ?

[Fruitcake]

The 'Loan Ranger' has baked his cake and now he must eat it.

[Andrew Woodman]

I think he should be careful with the closet racist term. We've got quite a few of them as well.

[Jaz]

Well done, its about time someone uncovered the scam called UKIP, they are closet racist (especially as the BNP arn't exactly the popular party), a bunch of loonies who thing they can sit back, quit europe and hope that it doesn't bite back.

He should not apologise for this..

[Guido Fawkes]

When he said he was going to
"take on the right" we thought he meant Cornerstone not UKIP...

[Fruitcake]

The 'Loan Ranger' has baked his cake and now he must eat it.

[Scott C]

Errr..but they are fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists! I had a UKIP candidate stand against me in a local government election, and the things they were saying on the doorstep were utterly disgraceful.

[Sean Fear]

I daresay there are some racists within the party (as in all parties including our own). Most UKIP people are not racist though, in my experience.

[Chad]

The terrible error Cameron has made here though is that the Conservative Party would find it difficult to put its hand on its heart and say it has no racists members of its own. I know that might be hard for all parties, but throwing stones in glasshouses and all that.

If names start getting named (consider than many UKIP are ex-Tory so have a could knowledge of the Tory bad apples), then it could all get very ugly indeed, and just a few weeks away from the local election, will open up the 'nasty party' wounds that have barely scabbed over.

This was a really bad mistake by Cameron as it could run and run until the local elections.

[Andrew Woodman]

I fear the same Chad. calling UKIP nutters is fine and be might have got away with xenophobic, but calling them closet racists was going a bit too far considering the views of some of members.

[John Coles]

Mr Cameron seems to have no idea of how wide and deep conservatism is in this country. UKIP is the Conservative party's "Lost Tribe". It was born of John Major's equivocation on Europe. An imaginative leader would seek some sort of reconciliation, not least considering that around 26 seats were denied the Conservatives in the last election because of the presence of a UKIP candidate. Instead he recruits all of yesterday's Europhiles and, like Ken Livingstone, abuses UKIP members as racists. How unwise to make political enemies so soon. But then, it'll play well in London.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"Well done, its about time someone uncovered the scam called UKIP, they are closet racist (especially as the BNP arn't exactly the popular party), a bunch of loonies who thing they can sit back, quit europe and hope that it doesn't bite back."

"Errr..but they are fruitcakes, loonies and closet racists! I had a UKIP candidate stand against me in a local government election, and the things they were saying on the doorstep were utterly disgraceful."

Let's be careful about making libellous comments shall we?

To be fair to UKIP, it's not really fair to judge the entire party by the actions of a few loathsome individuals within - would we want to be judged by some of the colourful remarks made by the likes of Ann Winterton in the past?

[Paul Kennedy]

I guess once Mr Cameron has had time to reflect on his comments, he will conclude that it was unwise to publicly air his thoughts on UKIP in the way in which he did. We all make mistakes and hopefully learn from them.

[John Hustings]

The trouble is, if you freely and liberally call other people racist, you can't rightly complain when others do the same to you.

And it could always be said that Cameron was policy co-ordinator of the last election campaign, which, as we all know, was widely denounced as racist.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"I guess once Mr Cameron has had time to reflect on his comments, he will conclude that it was unwise to publicly air his thoughts on UKIP in the way in which he did."

He's already defended his comments this afternoon.

Unfortunately sticking to his guns is likely to make the situation worse - he'll either be forced into an embarrassing climbdown by apologising/withdrawing or he'll be inviting UKIP to take legal action or he'll be inviting the media to expose some of the more unpleasant elements within our own party - dangerous ground indeed.

[Voice from the South West]

John Coles - There was an interesting discussion on the political make-up of UKIP voters on Political Betting last night. It is a mistake, and a very gross generalisation to suggest that all of UKIP's supporters are former Conservatives. There not, and they draw a large protest vote from the other parties too.

I would agree though that Cameron went too far in his remarks. There may very well be racists in UKIP, but on a purely PR perspective all Cameron's comments have done is to give more (unwelcome and unnecessary) publicity to UKIP. In answer to the question Cameron would have been well advised just to dismiss UKIP as a fringe party and nothing more than that. I think perhaps the best tactic against UKIP at a national level is just to simply ignore them - attacks like these and Michael Howard's in 2004 simply gift UKIP a platform from which they can preach.

[Rick]

The Conservative Party will be a very refined group at this rate as Cameron slices off whole chunks of support. Probably it will be concentrated around tavernas and wine bars in Notting Hill with a few BBQs in Dorset and Buckinghamshire.

It will be a much smaller party looking up to the LibDems if Cameron continues doing for Conservatives what Rowan Williams has done for Anglicans.

Looks like the Conservatives will go out with a bang followed by a long whimper at this rate.......I still think Cameron will follow Shaun Woodward.....

[wicks]

"Mr Cameron seems to have no idea of how wide and deep conservatism is in this country."

eh have a look at the last three general election results.

[RodS]

A simple case of loose talk by an inexperienced politician who is far happier with set piece presentations and it will embarass the party right through May.

I lost count of the number of times the word racist' has been used in this thread - but what does it mean, I have no idea anymore . It has become totally meaningless.

[Henry Whitmarsh]

Go Mr Cameron! Fruitcakes, loonies, racists? Sounds about right to me. There is no "being fair to UKIP." These people take Conservative votes, trash our policies and accuse us of abandoning our core values. Of course they need to be shown up for what they are, a bunch of lying, hysterical political lightweights with big mouths and no policies. This is absolutely the kind of publicity we need, not to mention putting a little fight back into politics. We need to show that the Conservative Party, not UKIP is the true voice of the right. For all of those worrying about legal action or the hurt feelings of their fellow travellers in UKIP, I just say bothered. For too long Cameron has been soft on those who say that he talks like a 19th century liberal rather than a 21st century Tory. He's also been too soft on Labour for accusing us of being socially irresponsible. Whether you guys like it or not we need votes from the left and the right to win the next election. We're not going to take our votes back from UKIP by saying that they're mostly right on the issues, are we?

[lambo]

I didn't realise DC was replacing "Punch and Judy" with "South Park"

[Paul Kennedy]

"I guess once Mr Cameron has had time to reflect on his comments, he will conclude that it was unwise to publicly air his thoughts on UKIP in the way in which he did."

He's already defended his comments this afternoon.

Oh dear, not enough reflection time I fear.

[Richard]

In my time I have met several UKIP staff members and I know two very well and they were anything but racist. They are thoughtful, rounded, intelligent people who are simply opposed to our membership of the EU and wish to belong and work for a Party that seeks to remove Britain from the EU.

[John Hustings]

"We need to show that the Conservative Party, not UKIP is the true voice of the right."

I don't think this is what Cameron's comments were designed to show. I think his comments were intended to further distance himself from the right and ingratiate himself with the bien pensants in the liberal press.

[Account Deleted]

I disapprove strongly of the comments made by Cameron today on UKIP - I would have thought throwing the word 'racist' around with such glib ease is something which suits dyed in the wool liberals better than Tories.

He seemed to imply all UKIP policies are extreme and dangerous - I don't strongly support pulling out of the EU (though occasionally I wonder) or support a majority of their policies but I hardly think childishly insulting them is a vote winner and I have some sympathies with a various policies of theirs, as do many Conservatives.

As for

"For too long Cameron has been soft on those who say that he talks like a 19th century liberal rather than a 21st century Tory."

Cameron sometimes does talk like a 19th century liberal rather than a 21st century Tory - this is what worries me. I don't want a Gladstone I want a Disraeli!

Calling people who have worries which UKIP is trying to woo by fleshing out more substantial right wing policies (on education/immigration/Europe) worries people who would follow "loonies and fruitcakes" hardly makes you want to go out and campaign for someone.

[John Hustings]

"I would have thought throwing the word 'racist' around with such glib ease is something which suits dyed in the wool liberals better than Tories. "

Perhaps his comments were yet another attempt at showing that he's a dyed in the wool liberal?

[Passingthru]

He can say what he wants, i agree UKIP policy is somewhat disjointed to say the least, although i wouldnt go so far to say 'loony'. Be nice for him to back up his assertions and give some examples to see where he's coming from though.

[Account Deleted]

The last paragraph of mine was gloriously incomprehensible like Prescott half way through a pie...

The point is that some of us like what UKIP have to say on certain, and we don't like to be told we are supporting 'fruitcakes and closet racists', particularly as Cameron offers no evidence in this assertion. We can only presume he thinks their policies are the kind only fruitcakes and closet racists could support, which hardly makes you want to go out and campaign on his behalf.

[Sally Roberts]

David Cameron is absolutely right. UKIP is nothing but "BNP-Lite"!

[Henry Whitmarsh]

The fact is that these people are taking our votes. I live in Hereford which we failed to gain at the last election by 2.1% of the vote. It's number 17 on our target list and we must win it to take back the government. At that election 2.2% of the vote went to UKIP. Perhaps, 1AM, UKIP activists had gone out and campaigned for the party that actually had a chance, Hereford could have returned a Conservative MP to Westminster.

[Chad]

UKIP's Current Aims

Extract:
- parental choice, equality of opportunity, equal status of academic and vocational abilities, and the freedom of schools to select pupils;

- the ability for our country to conduct our own international trade in the British national interest;

- controlling the volume of immigration with common sense solutions;

- lower taxes in a greatly simplified system;

- solving what is known as the West Lothian Question, and to address a second question: ‘The English Question’.

Grammer schools, low taxes, fair parliament?
I'm not a UKIP supporter, but I wonder want a conservative would find loony or racist about those aims.

[Punch]

I'm guessing that the likes of Cllr Lindley are wetting themselves at the opportunity to attack fellow Conservative members and say that we also have closet racists.

[kingbongo]

I can't see DC's done anything wrong - they are fruitcakes because they are totally obsessed with one issue. The closet racist aspect needs no apology as it was an opinion and we're all entitled to those -

if it shows up UKIP for the joke that they are then good - the more publicity they get the more people will know what they're like and the less likely they are to vote for them.

They appeal to the sergant-major tendency who voted tory because they tought that would keep Britain British (ie white anglo saxon and no mucking around with johnny foreigner)and the rest of their votes come from people who just don't want to vote for anyone else but like to use their vote as a 'none of the above' option.

Of course what DC should now do is (having pointed out how UKIP are the wrong choice for those wishing for a free and independent UK) stump up the EPP pledge and immediately re-instate the great Roger Helmer.

[Chad]

David Cameron is absolutely right. UKIP is nothing but "BNP-Lite"!

Surely if all you can offer is insults, you have already lost the argument?

UKIP have many serious organisational issues, imho, but its core aims look very similar to pre-camconservatism.

[Gareth]

This 'UKIP steal our votes' business is such nonsense.

Hereford was cited as an example. Lid Dem lead over tories was 2.1% and UKIP got 2.2%. Assuming, even for one second, that the 2nd choice party of the UKIP voters would be us, where exactly is the sense in chasing 2.2% of the vote rather than the 43.3% of the vote won by the Liberal?

[John Hustings]

Gareth, what exactly makes you a conservative?

[Gareth]

Seems DC may have had a point:

Anti-fascist monitoring body Searchlight have alleged that UKIP's current national chairman and one of its leading candidates, Mike Nattrass, has been a member of the extreme right, pro-Apartheid, pro-Rhodesia New Britain Party.

[Sean Fear]

I'd be willing to bet that there are currently some members of our own party that have been members of the New Britain Party, or similar organisations.

I'd still resent the implication that I am a "closet racist" if it were made by some political opponent.

[Gareth Compton]

Here's another UKIP gem:
And another one:

"UKIP’s London mayoral candidate Frank Maloney attacked Whitechapel as a ghetto.

He wrote on his website: "Immigrants are not integrating with the rest of British society but creating their own areas, where the rule of law does not apply and people have no allegiance to Britain whatsoever – and even seek to harm British people." "

[James Maskell]

I think Camerons got it wrong again. Why do that? What was the point of saying this? Does he realise hes going to alienate a lot of people by saying this, not just UKIP members. Calling them fruitcakes and loonies is wrong. Its insensitive as it links to the issue of mental health.

What Cameron has said today is stupid and he should take it back, however humiliating it may be to do so.

[Sean Fear]

That's not far removed from some of the things Trevor Philips has been saying, Gareth.

[Donal Blaney]

Cameron on UKIP: "I don't think they've got anything to say to a modern country"

I have to say that their EU and tax policies accord with a good more Tory supporters than the current approach the Party is adopting

This just strikes me as a very odd time to be saying this. At the precise time the Party should be appealing to traditionalists AND centrists by perhaps deploying Hague/Fox and Cameron (in the manner Prescott and Blair worked as a double-team to unite both wings of Labour) instead Cameron is seeking to drive away natural Tory voters. Madness...

[Goldie]

It merely confirms what Cameron and his posse think of real Conservatives.

May he go down in flames in May.

[Eric Wilson]

Frank Maloney left U.K.I.P. sometime ago and joined the Conservative Party

[James Maskell]

The use of the word "ghetto" is an interesting one. In fact a prominent Labour Councillor in Ramsgate used that word in complaining about the increase of affordable housing at the expense of car parks.

Its foolish to use words that are provocative unless you know exactly whats going to happen. Camerons deliberately used those words to provoke UKIP, but as many here have commented already, its not going to help matters with Europe and foreign policy not to mention party unity with those on the right annoyed at the profound change in direction of political philosophy.

[Serf]

Big Gaff on behalf of the Wonder Boy. As a Eurosceptic, I am often surprised by the level of conspiracy and looneyness is some reaches of the eurosceptic realm.

But to tar the competition as racists like this is stupid. It plays into the hands of the real competition on the left, who cover their own inadequacies by shouting Racist at their opponents.

It also is a gross insult to those decent souls who have been or are involved in UKIP politics. (No I have no connection)

The UKIP has a bunch of policies that many Conservatives could agree with, something that Chad points out. How about addressing these rather than going several notches below Punch & Judy in the ethical stakes.

Lets see what happens about the EPP, and we will see if Cameron whether this outburst was a mistake or a sign of things to come.

[Timothy Scott-McNair]

If you want to read about the sensible vision for Europe the EPP can offer, visit http://epp-ed.blogspot.com

[Jaz]

"It merely confirms what Cameron and his posse think of real Conservatives.

May he go down in flames in May."

And with it in compesation another 7 years of labour government. No thanks, I'd rather hear Cameron talking about how racist UKIP is than Gordon Brown and his "prudency".

[kingbongo]

The reason UKIP are loony fruitcakes is because some of their policies are barking mad and are not as Chad believes similar to pre-Cameron Conservative ones, or at least if any of them are then I'm glad we've dumped them.

Their stunning insight into immigration is to have a 1 for 1 policy where only the same number of immigrants are allowed in as leave - of course this may have changed now as Nigel Farage is not an idiot; just a failed backbencher with an outsize ego and a good sense of humour who wishes it was forever 1983. They are an unattractive proposition when exposed to sunlight and hopefully that's what DC has achieved today. Now we should concentrate on the real enemy the LDs and NuLab.

[Rob G]

Donal: in the manner Prescott and Blair worked as a double-team to unite both wings of Labour
Personally I'm glad that DC doesn't see Blair or Prescott as role models. And they haven't actually united Labour--the media think that the war between the Blairite and Brownite factions is as active as ever.

[John Hustings]

"And with it in compesation another 7 years of labour government. No thanks, I'd rather hear Cameron talking about how racist UKIP is than Gordon Brown and his "prudency"."

Unless you know something I don't, we don't have a general election this May.

[Art Poole.]

Mr Cameron has done our Party a massive disservice by this silly outburst against UKIP.Many of us in the Conservative Party have extremely similar beliefs as the people in UKIP that Mr Cameron has attacked and insulted. The last straw for me I think.

[Donal Blaney]

Rob G: my point is simply this. Prescott's role was/is to keep the Left on board while Blair attracted centrist and centre-right voters. It strikes me that Cameron should have someone to keep the Right on board as he too moves to the centre.

Do not forget, either, the reassurance given to the wets by the prominence of Whitelaw. Where is the reassurance to the Eurosceptic right? A vague promise to leave the EPP and, er, that's it.

[Rob G]

Donal: I thought David Davis, John Redwood and others were supposed to reassure the Right.

[Andrew Woodman]

'If you want to read about the sensible vision for Europe the EPP can offer, visit http://epp-ed.blogspot.com'

Think you'll need a bit more than a few letters from Europhile MEPs with their snouts in the trough.

[Burkean]

There's a good case to be made for the argument that falsely calling someone a racist is as bad as racism itself. Farage is right to complain about that and demand Cameron apologize for the implication that he and his elected colleagues are racist.

If it's just a few vocal members he's thinking of, then Cameron should not have raised it. Of course, all parties have racist members. It's an oft-levelled charge against the Tories. I cannot imagine Labour's working class support is free of sin (and the paternalism of its Islingtonian branch towards the developing world certainly smacks of another form). We all know the Lib Dems have not been above appealing to baser instincts in certain areas. So the charge could apply to any party. Similarly fruitcakes and loonies.

Or is he saying that UKIP is "institutionally racist"?

[michael mcgough]

In another class A moment last week Cameron called those resisting building on Green Belt 'Bananas'.I do hope his closet is empty.

[True Blue - elitist]

Type 'swivel-eyed loons' into google for amusement value.

[Chad]

Well, it's much more likely Cameron was unhappy with UKIP's cheeky request for the names of the secret donors under the FOI act and when pressed on air, his annoyance just spilled out in an unplanned and ugly way.

This outburst helps UKIP by giving them media time at a time when they seem to be getting their act together, and helps Labour and the LibDems by portraying this as a right-wing dogfight between the Tories and UKIP.

If Cameron cannot bring himself to apologise, why not make good on his EPP withdrawal pledge and announce a departure date?

[Jack Stone]

I thnik its outrageous that so many people seem to be so keen to back UKIP rather than there own leader.
David Cameron is 100% right in what he says. Anytime someone from the right in this party or from the BNP leave the party they join UKIP.
UKIP is where racist in blazers go rather than those in Doc Martins!
Its about time we stopped being polite about a party that as views that belong in the eightenth century and who barely disguiise the fact that they would prefer an Britain where everyone had the same colour skin, gays went back into the closet and women back into the kitchen!
One of the main reasons the Conservative Party have been out of power for so long is because those who call themselves Conservative have lost a sense of loyalty to there own party and its leadership. It seems times may be changing but some people never do!

[Nadim]

All this talk of fruitcake and bananas is making me hungry.

[Goldie]

I would like some reporter to ask Mr. Cameron is he thinks that Enoch Powell is also a racist.

[Richard North]

More importantly, the Cameron comment reflects an essential need within the Conservative Party hierarchy.

They must dismiss UKIP as "loonies" for, in they do not, they have to recognise that this Euroscpetic party has valid points about the EU , and that the extence of UKIP stems at least in part from their own failures to address them.

As did Howard dismiss UKIP as "gadflies", therefore, Cameron must continue this tradition of denial in order to justify his own stance on the EU.

[Nadim]

An interesting entry observation on Guido's site:

Cranmer said...
"If anyone is dumb enough to vote UKIP you shouldn't really care whether they're offended or not. I think you'll find that most things offend the average UKIP voter."

Ummm...

I know almost an entire Conservative Association that votes Conservative for Westminster elections and UKIP for Brussels... I guess many others secretly indulge in this schizophrenia as well.

Henry, I rather suspect you're damning a huge chunk of the Conservative Party.

[Chad]

Jack,

Anytime someone from the right in this party or from the BNP leave the party they join UKIP.

It's two-way traffic you know. The current Tory party has ex-ukip members too.

This should not come as any surprise, as they clearly have *similar* agendas and it would be incredibly blinkered to suggest otherwise.

Tribalism is one thing, but cheap insults are no substitute for rational argument.

[True Blue]

would like some reporter to ask Mr. Cameron is he thinks that Enoch Powell is also a racist.

Why, do you think he wasn't?

To save them the bother, the answer would clearly be "yes." His views on the repatriation of immigrants led Edward Heath to expel him. Far-right activists wear "Enoch was right" badges.

If you think he isn't I can only guess you haven't read the speech. It's pretty much a litmus test of racist attitudes.

http://theoccidentalquarterly.com/vol1no1/ep-rivers.html

[Richard]

This was a letter on the UKIP website in February from their Wales Chairman.

Dear Roger (Knapman),

I am very concerned to see that 2 out of 3 of our top stories on ukip.org website relate to immigration (and with no reference relating them to the EU).

I am particularly anxious that the main headline refers to "Britain's Non-White population is up 500,000".
I accept it’s a newspaper headline but is it a top story for us? What impression does this give to those who view our site? I understood that our concern is space not race is this correct?
I hope and trust this is an oversight on someone’s part.

To prevent further embarrassment I think it should be removed or at least placed out of the 'top story' bracket - our Party is experiencing enough problems without adding to them in this way.

Regards

Richard Suchorzewski
Chairman
UKIPWales
www.ukipwales.org

[Jack stone]

Rather strange if David Cameron drove away Conservative supporters by attacking another political party.
All thses people who defend UKIP and attack Cameron I think want the Conservative party to be a mirror image of UKIP. If the party were foolish to do that they would also have the same number of representatives in Parliament as UKIP.
My message to those who defend UKIP and who are members of the party is do us all in the party a favour who want to see another Conservative government and go and sod off and join the party who represent your spritual home.

[mark starr]

Cameron is running scared as he sees support ebbing away to UKIP who have the radical policies which attract thoughtful Tories.To simply copy Blair policies has got to be an affront to mainsteam right of centre voters so to stop the flow he has to resort to gutter politics. Another promise broken!!

[Sean Fear]

The problem is, Jack, a lot of our supporters vote UKIP in the Euro elections. If they all take you at your word - and leave - well, that's a hell of a lot of support we've got to pick up from somewhere.

[Chad]

Hopefully italics off now.

This was a letter on the UKIP website in February from their Wales Chairman.

They have now addressed that Richard, and as you would have seen from the forum, most members were highly critical of the potential of bias.

go and sod off and join the party who represent your spritual home
'nasty' is reborn.

I really think you are heading in completely the wrong direction if the best you can do is insult your opponents. It will backfire.

[James Maskell]

"My message to those who defend UKIP and who are members of the party is do us all in the party a favour who want to see another Conservative government and go and sod off and join the party who represent your spritual home"

Jack, I think you are missing the point here. We arent defending UKIP. What we are saying is that Cameron shouldnt have described UKIP in the way he did. I think you pressed enter quickly without checking the message. Do you really mean what you posted above?

[Richard]

"a bunch of loonies who thing they can sit back, quit europe and hope that it doesn't bite back."

I don't think leaving the EU is a loony idea. At one point support for withdrawal was as high as 52%. Europe wouldn't bite back, it's not in their interests to, especially if we entered EFTA and the EEA.

"Of course they need to be shown up for what they are, a bunch of lying, hysterical political lightweights with big mouths and no policies."

You obviously haven't read their manifesto.

"For too long Cameron has been soft on those who say that he talks like a 19th century liberal rather than a 21st century Tory."

If he was acting like s 19th century Liberal he'd be calling for massive tax cuts and significant deregulation of industry.

"David Cameron is absolutely right. UKIP is nothing but "BNP-Lite"!"

"UKIP is where racist in blazers go rather than those in Doc Martins!"

Prove it

"And the rest of their votes come from people who just don't want to vote for anyone else but like to use their vote as a 'none of the above' option. "

I thought the Lib Dems had a monopoly on that?

"Anti-fascist monitoring body Searchlight"

Is an organ of the Far Left.

[Michael McGowan]

Jack Stone, isn't it time you left the comfort zone of the 1950's and entered the 21st Century? For far too long, the traditional support base and membership of the Conservative Party has been the last refuge of blind deference in this country. That is changing at long last, as more and more people with centre-right leanings give those born-again social democrats, Dave and Francis Maude, a two-fingered salute. Hence today's silly outburst from a panicky and inexperienced leader. As more than one person has pointed out, UKIP could have a field day spotlighting racist attitudes within the Conservative Party.

UKIP also seem to have a manifesto for the local elections which sets out, point by point, a localist agenda. These are the sort of things that the Conservative Party is supposed to believe in but somehow never gets around to saying. Small wonder then that even the flat-footed UKIP leadership are targeting that section of the Tory vote which David Cameron thinks he no longer needs.

[andrew kirkham]

I used to be an active member of my local Conservative assoc before resigning 3 years ago to join the UKIP branch. In the Association there was not a single non white member,in the UKIP branch there are several from 3 different ethnic minority groups. About time DC opened his eyes

[don't attack your own side]

These ill-judged remarks remind me of Michael Howard during the 2004 euro-elections calling it "extreme" to support EU withdrawal. In other words, the latest remarks effectively attack people who support, or might support, the Conservative party.

If David Cameron wants to launch personal attacks he would be better launching them at the real opposition on the Government benches, but I had hoped for a "kinder, gentler" politics myself.

[Henry Whitmarsh]

If you don't like the party or its leader or its policies, why are you in the party? This isn't tribalism. If this causes UKippers to revolt and go and join the lunatic fringe then great. Have fun in the wilderness. Meanwhile DC scores a hit with moderate voters for beating up the lunatic fringe.

[Chad]

Perhaps Cameron should be asked if he would take legal action if another political party branded him racist?

[Margaret]

Cameron has shown his true colours. He is a liberal and I bet he won't do anything about the EPP.

What DC forgets is that UKIP got nearly 3 million votes in the Euro election. A good proportion of Conservative voters will vote UKIP because they recognise that the Tory Party will do nothing about the EU. Cameron and co have no intention of ever leaving the EU, no matter how bad things get, they believe they can reform it, whereas the truth is the EU is unreformable.

It was a stupid thing to say, and shows how politically inexperienced he is.

[Henry Whitmarsh]

Because he, like a lot of people, doesn't care what UKIP have to say and because it is such a ridiculous assertion. In such a situation there would a pot but no kettle.

[Chris Gillibrand]

"Type 'swivel-eyed loons' into google for amusement value."

Proves nothing- type "Gillibrand" in and you get a Democratic contender for the US Congress.

[James Maskell]

Im trying to think how much worse Cameron could have made those comments...and Im struggling! These comments are as close to slander as it gets. The only way he could make it any worse is to go to the gutter of comments and start making blantantly slanderous comments.

The comments are terrible but theres also the issue of the oxygen of publicity here...if Cameron doesnt like UKIP, why slag them off on London Radio? It gives them a plug. Hes done PR for Carlton and this should come naturally to him...this is amateur hour!

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"The closet racist aspect needs no apology as it was an opinion and we're all entitled to those."

One word for you, Kingbongo - libel.

"My message to those who defend UKIP and who are members of the party is do us all in the party a favour who want to see another Conservative government and go and sod off and join the party who represent your spritual home."

Jack, it's not necessarily about defending UKIP, but pointing out that libellous smears on the part of our leader really isn't the best way of going about shedding our 'nasty party' image and flies in the face of his oft-stated determination to move away from 'Punch and Judy' politics.

[Sean Fear]

Henry, attacking a fringe party in circumstances which generate sympathy for that fringe party, is foolish. Most people do not have any strong feelings about UKIP, (in the way that they do about the BNP) and so there is nothing to be gained by attacking them.

[Henry Whitmarsh]

It sounds much more like an accidentally-on-purpose. Cameron couldn't make a speech where he condemns UKIP prior to the locals, but an off the cuff comment stirs things up and lets swivel eyed loons everywhere know where the leadership stands on UKIP moonlighting. Also, when they defend themselves, they just look silly. Driving around in that tank as if they're going to fight them on the beaches ect ect.

Let them bring a case. Let them waste their general election deposit money (well, waste it another way) on a libel trial. Sympathy? You must be joking.

[Sean Fear]

The news coverage has been far from unsympathetic to UKIP, Henry.

[Ted]

Sean as usual hits the mark - best thing to do is dismiss a fringe party, better to make them a joke than insult them.

Had a look at the UKIP site & its selection of news items - struck me as showing strong tendency to highlight immigration and specifically the "Daily Mail" scare story side, verging towards the chauvanist/foreigners bad English good. Views such as you would expect from a strongly right wing - not far right - party. Many probably held by the more "core" members of this party. I don't share most of them but they are probably in line with a few million voters thoughts. I wouldn't want my party to have their position but think its better to deal with them as a joke and point out their failures than to have a go on extreme terms.

[Paul Kennedy]

I notice that the Daily Telegraph online is currently giving Mr Cameron's comments no more coverage than those made by Meg Ryan, the Hollywood actress, who has branded chat show host Michael Parkinson a "nut" over their famously chilly TV encounter.

So maybe not a lot of damage done, albeit that it has created a considerable number of postings on this website.

[PassingThru]

For all the comparisons i see between the BNP and UKIP, there is not much on this thread to suggest they are similar, other than they are 'anti-immigration', a stance the Conservative party wasnt so long ago perceived as being. Whatever people think of the BNP, many of its senior figures have serious criminal records, in the suns words, they are Bloody Nasty People. The UKIP is generally staffed by people without serious criminal records, many of them from the Tories. I agree with some of the above that says 'its just Cameron doing more of the distancing from the right' but he seems to have overstepped the line this time. Calling them fruitcakes and loonies is one thing, its fairly subjective, i personally still think most of labour and the lib-dems are fairly loony, but calling them racist? Thats far less subjective and should have a case built around it. It does seem slightly slanderous, although i guess 'closet' racism cant really be proved or disproved, maybe Cameron has been careful and deliberate to say that.

[Rob Largan]

Personally I am amazed Cameron has said this, it is clearly a major tactical error on his part.

[Richard]

"Type 'swivel-eyed loons' into google for amusement value."

The funniest case of googlebombing was when typing "f***wit" brought up John Prescott.

As for Cameron's comment, what happened to the end of Punch and Judy politics? I expect mature debate from the leader of the Tories, not childish insults.

[Account Deleted]

"Meanwhile DC scores a hit with moderate voters for beating up the lunatic fringe."

I think some people have a bizarre idea of what the 'lunatic fringe' consists of. Our policies on Europe/Immigration are vastly popular (whether they are right or wrong), and UKIP is right to pick up on them. We should point out we are offering something similiar but we are electable (whereas UKIP is not). If Cameron doesn't want to offer strong policies on the EU/Immigration fair enough, but he shouldn't insult UKIP in the way he has, it offends some of us. There is not a lot of people out there waiting for a liberal liberal party. What there is are a lot of people who are natural conservatives who want to hear a positive message from us about how we have a balanced programme across a wide range of policy areas.

I worry Cameron (and those around him) might sometimes think it is a good idea polarise people - in that Portillo way - between those who would call themselves liberal conservatives and one nation or traditional conservatives, ditching traditional issues and policy platforms rather than . But we should give our man the benefit of the doubt for the moment.

It's a shame this will bury Cameron's support for ending means testing on pensions, which is a good policy and one reason why he is likely to win over moderate Labour voters as opposed to Gordon 'means testing is my middle name don't bother to save or I'll penalise you' Brown. And yet another wedge to drive between Brown and Blair.

[Richard]

"For all the comparisons i see between the BNP and UKIP, there is not much on this thread to suggest they are similar, other than they are 'anti-immigration',"

Indeed, I recall reading somewhere (it may have been a letter in the New Statesman) that while UKIP could be characterised as a nostalgic "back to the 1950s" party, the BNP were hardcore racial nationalists. They are clearly distinct in ideology including their opinion on race.

[Account Deleted]

ditching traditional issues and policy platforms rather than

I should say rather than coming up with authentic (compassionate) Conservative policies across a wide range of areas

[James Maskell]

Cameron did backtrack slightly by saying "mostly" after "closet racists". The problem is, hes still talking about a majority...

[kingbongo]

One word for you, Kingbongo - libel.

one for you Daniel - Slander

I'm not sure if an organisation can sue for slander but if anyone knows of a successful case being brought I'd be interested.

I think Cameron said it as he saw it - I thought we wanted politicians to do that. I think the the title of this thread is wrong as I don't think it was a gaffe.

Whether the UKIP leadership like it or not they are seen by many supporters as a 'real' right wing party now the tories have gone all cuddly. These people probably never read any UKIP literature and just assume that what they'll get is More Empire, early closing on Wednesdays and public thrashings for yobs.

On many things we are close to the LDs such as on civil liberties and some aspects of the Orange Book but opprobrium is heaped on anyone who says this on CH. So I'm quite happy to give it back - I wouldn't be member of the party if I thought we had more than a passing amount in common with UKIP - a party of golf club bores and small minded egotists with an inchoate rage at the modern world.

UKIP are an angry party and a joke politically. I'm proud that DC has said what many other people think - now I hope he'll move on to the other parties as 2 minutes spent discussing UKIP is more than enough.