Sir Ming is new LibDem leader

Comments

[Ian Sider]

Good.

[Ted]

What fun Tony is going to have at PMQs.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Rejoice rejoice!

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

Rejoice! Rejoice! Roll on years of disunity, backstabbing, manoeuvring for position etc in another party for a change! Hurrah!

[Paul Bavill]

Any bets on the first defection?

[Jon White]

Would have prefered to see Hughes get it. That would have been a Godsend for the Tories.

Sadly, Ming could be a good thing for the LDs, which could hurt us.

[michael]

Hooray! Lib Dems get it wrong again.

I hear that Sir Ming is to be given a smaller office at Lib Dem HQ - as soon as they can find someone to remove the 'caretaker's cupboard' sign.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Jon - why do you belive ming will be good for the Lib Dems out of interest?

[jphewitt]

Sir ming is openly left of centre and hopefully his association with the labour party in the 90’s will lose the party favour with the voters.
word of warning, as a hung parliament is becoming a stronger possibility at the next election will the old scot again side with is old friend Brown.
But on the whole a jolly good thing and glad to see the lib dems being consistent as far as their mistakes go

[Jon White]

Sadly Jonathan, I think that Ming will command more popular support than Hughes or Huhne would have done. I think that he will sway the 'floating tory voters' much more than Hughes or Huhne. To gain office, we have to target the LD held seats. I think that Ming will be better at holding them from us.

He is avuncular, and well-respected, whatever we may think of him. He reminds me a little of Roy Jenkins, who would probbaly have been PM in 1983 had it not been for the Falklands.

[Andrew M]

Will Ming's age count against him, like it did with Michael Foot?

[Jon White]

No it won't. It wasn't Foot's age that held in back, it was his total and complete incompetance! Ming is a much smoother operator.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

Clegg, Cable or Huhne for deputy? (Remember - deputy is elected in ballot of LD MPs)

Clegg must be a shoe-in for LD Foreign Affairs.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

I think that Ming will actually come across as old fashioned when compared to Cameron. If we look at a Cameron Campbell and possible Brown line up - its suddenlt the Tories who are looking like they represent the future. I think this in itself is a great asset for the party.

[Andrew Woodman]

I think this leadership election has proved him to be overrated. His answer to the West Lothian question still has me gasping in disbelief. His PMQs have been awful in the main. I don't think we should have to much to fear from his leadership.

[Henry Cook]

I'll never understand why they didn't go for Huhne, but I guess one should never try to rationalise the thought processes of Liberal Democrats. Its very likely now that the Lib Dem vote will hold up at around 20% at the next election, they'll find it very difficult to increase their share of the vote. We're down to a straight Cameron/Brown fight for government, and that can only be a good thing for our prospects.

[Jon White]

Andrew, I really hope that you are right and I am wrong. Nothing would make me happier than seeing the LD's wiped out at the next election.

[Editor]

A big relief for Clegg, Laws etc - they can still hope to be the LibDem leader after Sir Ming has fulfilled his caretaker role... Chris Huhne would have been a longer-term leader.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Ed - exactly right. If Huhne had one Clegg would have been kicking himself. I suspect we are looking at a one election leader - which gives the heirs apparent a few years to establish themselves within the party.

[Editor]

Sir Ming's wife has just been interviewed by Adam Boulton on Sky. She was very impressive. Really bubbly. Very winsome. Much more sparkle in her than her husband. She could be quite an asset.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

The ascension of Campbell has effectively fired the starting gun on the next Liberal Democrat leadership contest as soon as the last one finished.

Get the popcorn in chaps - the machinations of key figures within the Liberal Democrats could entertain us all the way to the next election!

[William Norton]

Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain. Tory gain.

A preview of forthcoming attractions at your local cinema:

(a) Who Dares Wins
Senior Lib Dems explain why it was obvious all along that the party would turn to an experienced elder statesman as the new leader.
A romantic comedy. Duration: lasts about 5 minutes.

(b) Who Cares Who Wins
A blockbuster disaster movie sequel to (a) in which the same senior Lib Dems go out of their way to stress their absolute loyalty to their new leader, but just wish he'd change his advisers.
A remake of "IDS' Titanic". Duration: Will last about 18 months (subject to availability of leading star).

(c) Huhne Had Better Dare Not Think He's Won
Heartwarming slapstick as various Orange Bookers decide there's no time like the present to cripple the rat who stabbed them all in the back, before he thinks he's got his hands on the succession.
Dazzling special effects. The memory will stay with you for the rest of their lives.

(d) A Bridge Actually Not All That Far Away When You Come To Think Of It
Wartime drama. A plucky band of conservative liberals decide they're really liberal conservatives and launch a gallant attempt to parachute onto David Cameron's A List before they're all surrounded and wiped out.
Will irritate many viewers. Duration: Will run for as long as Campbell does, and possibly depending on the ending to film (c).

(e) Scot In The Antartic
Poignant documentary following a lonely man wandering in the wilderness talking to himself about what might have been and trying to scrounge enough money to afford a bottle of Buckfast. Duration: will actually last for far shorter than it will seem.

(f) Proof of Life
Tasteless medical drama as various people with beards sit around speculating when someone old will fall ill. The highlight is the euthanasia debate staged annually at a seaside resort.

[michael]

Jon, the fact that Sir Ming looks like a Tory could help us in that it will make it easier for previous Lib Dem voters to vote for the real thing.

And anyone who has seen his PMQs performances of late, will surely doubt how smooth an operator he actually is when not talking about foreign affairs in the newsnight studio.

[Ted]

Henry - don't be too confident. The problem is where the 2-3% ex LD vote goes on your scenario. In 1997 & 2001 the LDs gained Tory voters. In 2005 they gained Labour voters. If Ming loses votes we want those to be the ex Tory ones (hopefully with his left of centre views thats what will happen) rather than the Labour votes won last time.

[michael]

Editor, do you think Mrs Ming is positioning for the leadership?

[Jonathan Sheppard]

At the risk of bringing the political debate down several notches I think Tim has hit the nail on the head - Mings wife may have some sparkle - but isnt he just so, well, BORING. I just cant imagine him inspiring the electorate at all. Not sure what others think?

[Richard]

I was rather hoping Simon Hughes would win. Still, better Ming than Huhne. I'm not sure why but I began to see Huhne as something of a threat. Probably because he was younger than Ming and lacked Hughes' left-wing reputation.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

Oh William you are naughty - my colleagues are now staring at me in bemusement after I burst out cackling and almost wet myself in the process! Quite simply brilliant.

[Jon White]

Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Ming will be a great leader. My only point is that either Hughes or Huhne would have been much better choices from the point of view of our party. They would have been MUCH easier to attack.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that Ming will be a great leader. My only point is that either Hughes or Huhne would have been much better choices from the point of view of our party. They would have been MUCH easier to attack."

Hughes maybe. Let's not forget that Minguselah is a frail, dull, old Scot with question marks hanging over his long-term health. Huhne may have been dull but he was the most human of the three.

[Jon White]

Yes, and the biggest supporter of the EU. We could have really hit on that. I just try to put myself in the mind of the average voter. Ming APPEARS safe.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

I really cant imagine him appealing to the electorate. Paddy Ashdown was seen as an action man. Charles Kennedy was young when elected and represented the a new era for the Lib Dems. Ming is well, old, not inspiring and I'm not sure SAFE is so appealing for a third party.

[michael]

Yes DVA - Chris Prune did have that Charles Kennedy 'likeability' factor, looked serious and obviously was a lot younger than Sir Ming.

[Richard]

Ming appears safe but he isn't inspirational. He may not lose many votes but I can't see him gaining any either.

[Jonathan Sheppard]

And surely his looks will put people off - see www.toryradio.com

[Ted]

Two leaders from the Kingdom of Fife - maybe we should re-christen the West Lothian Question as the Fife Conundrum?

[Gary Barford]

One wonders whether Ming will buck up his act at PMQs now he is the proper leader. He looks distinctly unimpressive; having to look at his notes for the most basic and short of questions to ask Blair, his speeches are cringeworthy (the delivery of his "I know liberals. Liberals are my friends. Dave, your no liberal" was awful). Both Labour and the Tories will have no problem dealing with this elderly toff.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

I can see Minguselah's LDs doing well in Scotland. Metropolitan and liberal middle Englanders that the LDs have worked so hard to attract in recent times will probably be put off though, unless the Orange Bookers are going to be the public face of Minguselah's LDs.

[Ted]

One thing Dave will have beeen taught at Eton is to be respective to his elders. I hope he will make a point of allowing for the infirmities of age, make sure all on his benches clarify that the Merciless one is OK - perhaps assisting Ming to the right seat, helping him with his questions if they think the PM hasn't understood him, making sure they speak clearly, putting up with his elderly fancies (the existence of a camp Xray, CIA led conspiracies, need for a new European currency...)

[Ted]

Sorry came over all ageist for a moment.

[Jon White]

Ted, don't forget the age of the last Tory leader to fight a general election. (Not quite as old as Ming I know, but close)

His age wasn't an issue at all. It was his perception as 'something of the night' by the voters. (along with a pretty poor campaign!)

Sadly, modern politics is about presentation much more than policy. Ming is a more 'acceptable' image to the voters than Hughes certainly, and possible (if we played it right) Huhne.

[Mark Fulford]

LibDem members didn't have a great choice, but I'm sure that Huhne would have caused us the most worries. Despite Charlie's faults, I think LibDems are weaker now than when Charlie was in charge.

[Jon White]

Good point Mark. They have really shot themselves in the foot in that way. The drunken one was much more likely to win seats for them than any of the the other 3 in charge.

Just imagine, a party getting rid of a leader in order to replace them with a no-body! Lucky we'd never do that. We'd never kick out someone who'd won 3 elections, changed the face of Britain forever, and been our most successful leader ever, and replace them with someone who had suffered a charisma by-pass, now would we?

[Sam Coates]

"My only point is that either Hughes or Huhne would have been much better choices from the point of view of our party. They would have been MUCH easier to attack."
We won't have to attack him - we just need a positive, forward-looking narrative and voters will deduce their own perceptions - the Old Guard vs. the New Thing.

[houndtang]

Don't think it really matters who the Lib Dem leader is, they are pretty much guaranteed circa 20% of the vote as a dustbin for safe protest votes.

[malcolm]

I side with Jon White in that I think he Lib Dems have made the best choice they could.Ming may be old and he may be a poor PMQ performer (who actually cares about PMQs except political anoraks like us) and he may be a caretaker. BUT he comes across as both having both authority and decency qualities the electorate value highly.I think we underestimate him and the effect he has on the Lib Dems at our peril,some of the posts on this thread are both complacent and premature.

[Jon White]

Malcolm's point is correct. Hague regularly demolished Blair at PMQs. Did it do him any good with the electorate in 2001? Sadly not.

[michael]

PMQs matters to the MPs sitting behind the leader!

[Jon White]

But they'll vote for their party anyway! It's the voters we have to convince, not the MPs!!!!

[Ted]

Jon, malcolm

let us have our fun please:-)

LDs have exchanged Kennedy for Ming - a friendly gregarious Scot for a dour, toff Scot. Interested to see if Ming stabalises LD share so meaning they have reached the summit of their recent surge or if he can grow their share more by attracting Labour voters - can't see him attracting the Tories.

[Ted]

Without being seen as anti-Scot ( we did very well under our Scots leaders) I think the Scots votes question will dog both of the Men of Fife.
and in the unlikely case of England making the final or even winning the World Cup who knows what English nationalism will do.

[Jon White]

Ted, if England win the world cup, I won't care how is the leader of any party, nor the country!

[Jon White]

sorry, WHO not 'how'. Got carried away in the fantasy of Beckham lifting the trophy and my typing suffered!

[MTK]

houndtang,

I think one thing we must fight against is the notion of "safe protest votes".

The country faces real issues right now which are not being addressed and we need to get into the heads of thoughtful LD voters (by no means all of them) and convince them that only the conservatives can offer anything more optimistic than the managed decline on offer elsewhere.

[spagbob]

the fact that they elected ming is a good thing for us. the main lib dem vote comes from the young and they like a party to look young and vibrant. under charlie, it did. under ming, it'll look old and out of touch with the young. i predict a massive fall away of the young from the lib dems. now, its us tories who look young and vibrant. this may help us to win over much more of the young vote, we so desperately need. this can only be good news as far as im concerned.

[Ted]

sorry hadn't thought through to the fantasy image - just enjoying it - Becks facing crowd trophy above head, Owen, Terry trying to reach up......

seriously though if England do well (don't think about winning...) I think it will have an effect on English perceptions. If Blair is hurt by events it'll make Gordon's task of winning over England harder.

[James Cleverly]

Until the last election the Lib Dems were just an irrelevance, we have allowed them to talk themselves up. Kennedy, for all his faults, got them exposure but this leadership battle has shown just how dull they all are.

Getting Ming on board will make them look even less dynamic and relevant, so as long as we look active, positive and forward thinking there will be little reason for people to consider supporting the Lib Dems.

[Jon White]

Sadly Ted, sporting victories can help the government of the day. If GB is still in No. 10 WHEN England win in Germany (let me have my fantasy, please) it could help him.

[Ted]

Jon - OK you can have your fantasy - when England are playing in final who do we see cycling towards the big screen in Trafalgar Square, perhaps in St Georges flag shirt.....

[Jon White]

Ted, all I'll see is our glorious boys winning. After that, the alcoholic haze will prevent clear vision of anything!!!!

(But seriously, I can see your point)

[malcolm]

Ted,I am as nationalist as hell when England play Scotland and anything(spent a large part of last Saturday evening screaming at the TV) but generally I'm a Unionist.Even though it would be good for our party I would be very sad if the Union came under strain because Ming and Brown lead their parties.

[Chris Palmer]

A pity it wasn't Simon Hughes really. Oh well, we can't have eveything our way.

[Editor]

OFFICIAL TORY REACTION

"Ming Campbell has been around a long time and he is well-known. We congratulate him on his election as leader of the Liberal Democrats. But by choosing Campbell, the Lib Dems have gone for a caretaker leader to preside over a fudge over the future direction of their party.

We all know that one section of the Liberal Democrats wants to move to the left, while another section wants to adopt a free market, modernising position and by choosing Ming Campbell, they have elected not to make a decision about the future direction of the Liberal Democrats.

In two or three years’ time, when they presumably will choose a leader to lead them in one of these two directions, they may be able to move forward but in the meantime, it will be very difficult for them to do so."

[malcolm]

Quite a well put reaction.I'm not sure they're right 'though.The Lib Dems have become masters at portraying themselves as all things to all men for a long time.Do they really have to change?They've done well as a recepticle for protest votes and in this 'anti politician'era in which we live can they not continue to grow on that basis.

[Ted]

malcolm - I'm also a Unionist but can't see that until we have clear demarcation between UK and national issues (not necessarily an English Parliament) that a Scots MP will have legitamacy in English matters - how will Gordon or Ming be able to put forward Education, NHS etc reforms when it doesn't affect their constituents?
The "I have friends/relatives in England" line doesn't work - Gordon would be attacked every PMQs on any policies he puts forward for English only legislation. "The Prime Minister is suggesting...I note his own constituents will not be affected...its not his party's policy in Scotland why is he imposing it on England?"

[Richard]

Ming is reputed to have said "I am from the Bill Halley Generation". Now, while Rock Around the Clock might be a classic tune, I don't quite see what Ming is trying to achieve.

"And surely his looks will put people off - see www.toryradio.com"

That is now my MSN Messenger picture!

[James Maskell]

Its certainly an interesting thing that considering Howard stepped down due to his age, that someone older than him wins the leadership of "the other party"...anyone reckon he'll actually last till 2009? I dont think he will. I think Chris (Who) will take the mantle before the next General Election. Ming's a caretaker leader and I doubt he has the energy for it.

[Rob D]

Isn't there a danger that Ming is the only Lib Dem you can see sitting in a cabinet? Doesn't he give them some credibilty?

[John Hustings]

I think if anyone would've been a disaster for the Lib Dems, it would've been Chris Huhne. He just doesn't seem to appeal to potential Lib Dem voters: he's too slick and nasty.

I really don't think anyone will care that Ming Campbell is boring (they're not voting for a prime minister!). The most important thing is that he's fairly *nice*. Charles Kennedy was rather dull but he was the ideal Lib Dem leader.

Lib Dem voters don't vote for who they want in government, they're voting to make themselves feel good. That's why there's such a big difference and that an incompetent leader (like Kennedy) was perversely successful.

[Dick Wishart]

Its ironic that the Conservatives supposedly made up entirely of old people have the vision to elect a young leader, whilst the Lib Dems who we all know are made up of trendy young intelectuals elect an old man who will be nearly 70 at the next election.Bring it on!

[Andy Stidwill]

I've just read all the contributions on this page so far and I must say I find them rather complacent.

Unfortunately, I think that Ming Campbell is without doubt the person most likely to hold marginal Lib Dem seats against our attack at the next election, especially ones with big pensioner electorates such as Torbay, Westmorland, Lewes, Norfolk North, Cornwall North, Devon North, Teignbridge, Southport, etc, etc, etc.

People keep talking about his age - but don't forget that before very long 50% of the elecorate, (and even more of those who actually bother to vote), will be over 50 years of age. They could actually vote Lib Dem rather than Tory because they identify more with Campbell than with young Dave.

At the last election, turnout amongst 18-24s was 37%. With the 65+ age-group, it was 75%.

[Andrew Price]

"Its ironic that the Conservatives supposedly made up entirely of old people have the vision to elect a young leader, whilst the Lib Dems who we all know are made up of trendy young intellectuals elect an old man who will be nearly 70 at the next election"

Very True Sir.

A colleague (Lib Dem) was virtually in tears at this announcement. Many young Lib Dems see themselves as Radicals, how does that work when they are being led by a 60+ year old man, who is anything but a radical. I think this could have serious implications for their youth membership.

Sir Ming (and I'm not very flippant) looks like he's 74 not 64 at the moment. When he was being interviewed by Nick on the 6 News he looked like a weak and frail man. I may be repeating people here, but whenever Sir Ming was in the Newsnight studio he did seem very respectable and eloquent. Get him outside that environment (as we have seen in debates and PMQs) and he's very frail, weak and old. And I mean old in a frail way. Michael Howard and Ken Clarke are in their 60s but they still had energy; Sir Ming seems to posses none.

However, my one fearis that in the SW England for example the older voters there may warm to Sir Ming a little more than they would to Cameron. I always look to my Grandfather in these situations. He's a Tory but when he's mad at them he'll vote Lib Dem (never ever Labour). I can see Sir Ming being able to keep people like him on board.

[Ted]

- of course he is frail he is in remission from a serious bout with cancer. I hope that he doesn't suffer a relapse, but think the Orange Bookers weighed their support for him on the basis he was unlikely to remain leader (whatever he says) for more than 4 years.

Despite my jokes above about his age we should not under-estimate Ming. His strength of purpose must of helped battling illness, the reasn he didn't stand last time, and he will fight for the Liberal party he wants.

however he does not inspire, he does look old and frail and I cannot see the young, attracted last election, being as keen to vote Lib Dem next time.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"Sir Ming (and I'm not very flippant) looks like he's 74 not 64 at the moment. When he was being interviewed by Nick on the 6 News he looked like a weak and frail man. I may be repeating people here, but whenever Sir Ming was in the Newsnight studio he did seem very respectable and eloquent. Get him outside that environment (as we have seen in debates and PMQs) and he's very frail, weak and old. And I mean old in a frail way. Michael Howard and Ken Clarke are in their 60s but they still had energy; Sir Ming seems to posses none."

I agree. I had a marginal preference for Ken Clarke in our recent leadership contest despite his age but age is the main reason why I feel Minguselah was the wrong choice for the LDs. The reason for this incongruency? Perception - Minguselah looks far older than he is, and frail to boot; Ken looked comfortably middle-aged and as rumbustious as ever.

[Orange Booker]

One person's young vibrant leader is another's petulant toff.

[Mark Fulford]

Can we mourn the worst Question Time in history?

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"Can we mourn the worst Question Time in history?"

Quite right - it was real matchsticks-between-eyelids stuff. In Salisbury next week - are Ted or the Editor going?

[john Skinner]

Jon
Sorry to play the pedant, but:
To "shoot yourself in the foot" refers to WW1 soldiers attempting to get themselves back to Blighty as unfit to serve on the front line.
The correct expression for damaging your cause is to "score an own goal".