David Davis promises to make ID cards an election issue

Labour got its ID cards bill through the House of Lords last night after Home Secretary Charles Clarke agreed a compromise with the Conservatives.  As The Independent reports:

"The Lords accepted an offer from the Home Office that anyone applying for a new biometric passport before January 2010 could opt out of having an ID card... Until yesterday peers had strongly opposed the ID Cards Bill on the basis that Labour's manifesto had said the scheme would initially be voluntary. They argued that requiring new passport holders to apply for ID cards amounted to "compulsion by stealth", a claim rejected by the Government."

The Tories have vowed to make ID cards an issue at the next General Election.  "No one who does not want to have an ID card before the next election will have to have one," said Shadow Home Secretary David Davis.  Labour thinks that most voters - particularly in its heartlands - will favour its position on ID cards and its positioning will reinforce its anti-fraud credentials.  The Tories believe that middle England will resist the civil liberty implications of ID cards and will believe that the money spent on the scheme would be better invested in better border security and more neighbourhood policing.

The LIbDems refused to the compromise and campaigners against ID cards said they were right to do so.  Phil Booth, national coordinator of NO2ID, told The Independent:

"Anybody who thinks this is compromise has not understood the Bill. The problem has always been the database, not the card.  Millions are already vehemently opposed - the Home Office will have to round them up and force them to be fingerprinted, which will bring home to the public the true nature of the scheme. This is a self-destructive policy to dwarf the poll tax."

Comments

[Chad]

I'm sorry, I do like David Davis a lot and think he is doing a good job on the whole, but when a government tries to force a bill through that using gross and deliberate misrepresentations, from the cost (they say £1.7bn those in the know say just £37 million, about 50p per person) to the meaning of 'voluntary', any party that objects to ID cards on 'principle' would not have helped the government get this 'compromise' through.

I agree ID cards could be a big issue at the next election but if it is, and the people are angry, their wrath will be exacted on the two parties that are making this possible; Labour and the Tories.

Is this the biggest Cameron flip flop yet?

This was not a compromise by the Tories, it was a sell-out [again].

[James Maskell]

Chads right, if you dont support the ID Card Bill then the compromise offered should have been refused point blank. Its the principle of the thing.

[Peter]

I suspect compulsory identity cards will be more popular than not before the event, but very unpopular after they come into force.

[Chad]

The time to stand up to this bill is now not in three years time.

Even the Home Office accepts the government's figures for identity fraud are "illustrative".

Cameron's amateurish and cynical strategy of supporting this bill just so he can oppose it at the general election has given the government carte blanche to waste millions of pounds of taxpayer's money.

If the Tories oppose the ID scheme later,they should reimburse the taxpayer for all the millionsof pounds of costs incurred from today until the next election.

[Matt]

Yes, it's very cynical and utterly outrageous.

Letting the bill go through now will simply allow this incredibly important issue to slip from public consciousness.

NO2ID are completely correct to say that the card is an irrelevance. Storing everyone's palm prints, face scans, retina scans and presumably even DNA sequence eventually in one database will enable the installation of scanners that query that database over a network anywhere and everywhere, without anyone ever owning a card.

I really do hope that people do wake up to what is happening and that it comes to be Blair's poll tax. Squared.

[James Maskell]

The deal is described as a "major climbdown by the Government" by the Conservatives.

http://www.conservatives.com/tile.do?def=news.story.page&obj_id=128912

The Government gets the Bill through albeit slightly delayed and the Conservatives say the Government made a major climbdown?? The Conservatives gave the ball away last night. I thought much better of Davis.

[wasp]

Actually I think its that Cameron and Davis are more astute than the people that run No2ID.

It is the card that people will come to resent, the fact that you have to be certified before receiving any Government service like benefits and NHS treatment. The database will largely go unoticed.

[Chad]

Cameron needs to be put on the spot. He has greenlighted the deliberate wastage of millions of pounds of our money to allow him to play political games.

32 million has been spent already, how much do you think will be spent in the next three years thanks to the Tories voting with the government?

We taxpayers must demand our money back. Taxpayers should not be forced to subsidise Cameron's games.

[Chad]

Wasp, what is astute about greenlighting massive expenditure that you intend to dump at the very first instance?

[Account Deleted]

I wonder if the Conservative Party is becoming the Liberal Party Mark II...

Personally I refuse to vote for such a party, any party which opposes ID cards on principle seems to me to be edging from sensible centre right pragmatism to a doctrinaire libertarian viewpoint of the world... and I think most people are further from this viewpoint than those who all agree on it think...

That said, I am pretty sceptical about the supposed benefits of the cards, and think they are a cynical ploy by Blair... But still...

[Richard]

"Personally I refuse to vote for such a party, any party which opposes ID cards on principle seems to me to be edging from sensible centre right pragmatism to a doctrinaire libertarian viewpoint of the world"

Or it could just be a docrtinaire Conservative Party defending the traditional rights and liberties of Englishmen (not to forget the Welsh, Scots and Irish).

[Chad]

1AM, although I am sure there are many people who oppose ID cards for the liberatiran reasons you dislike, many of us are simply practical, and when we see a government effectively lying over the reasons for needing a new project, alarm bells start to ring, as it has a 'wmd' feel about it.

The government has presented a figure of £1.7billion as the cost of id fraud, a figure that per person works out about £35. The government then compared this figure to their estimate cost of the card itself of £30 showing that the card makes economic sense.

Unfortunately, the company that actually looks after the credit card companies and banks puts the figure of id fraud at less that £37 million,or just 50 pence per person.

So, based on the government's own 'economic' argument and their own figures (which must be taken as a minimum as independent research places the figure much higher), we have a card costing £30 to protect us against a 50 pence fraud, and what is worse, the card is only aimed at about 5% of id fraud, so we have a £30 charge to offset a potential loss of around 5p.

A good deal? Give the government £30+ insurance against a potential loss of 5 pence?

If ID fraud was really the issue, there are better solutions like vein-readers which are in live tests in selected Japanese banks right now, with Samsung having already developed a USB version to also protect against online fraud!

When the Times questioned the home office about the £1.7 billion figure, they accepted the figure was illustrative, ie completely made up.

Now call me stupid, but I am an adult, and if the government presents an honest case for needing something, I can decide to support of oppose it, but when the case is clearly fraudulent, how can we know what their real intention is?

The Tories themselves have called in a plastic poll tax, a black hole of enormous expense that will bring little or no benefits, and yet, they are equally responsible for allowing that cost to escalate by helping to pass the bill.

I just don't like politicians wasting our money as if it was their own.

The only reason the costs are now really starting to escalate is because the Tories have worked with the government to pass this bill.

What's worse, Labour are happy to spend the money because they want the project live, the Tories have taken the position of deliberately allowing millions of taxpayer funds to be spent on a project they will dump at the first opportunity.

Nothing will bring back all those wasted millions unless Cameron takes out a loan and repays the taxpayer.

[Selsdon Man]

Three cheers for doctrinaire libertarianism!

The authoritarian conservatives can join their fellow statists in New Labour.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"It is the card that people will come to resent, the fact that you have to be certified before receiving any Government service like benefits and NHS treatment."

I realise I'll be a lonely voice here, but this is one aspect of the ID card I find very appealing.

"I agree ID cards could be a big issue at the next election but if it is, and the people are angry, their wrath will be exacted on the two parties that are making this possible; Labour and the Tories."

Never mind Chad, all the more votes for 'Imagine' to scoop up eh?

[Chad]

DVA,

You know, there are many of us who can make objective comment irrespective of the party we belong to.

Try attacking the issues not the man.

[Edward]

The sad thing is that it's not a cost-effective way of tackling ID fraud at all. The cost of the scheme is greater than even the Government's estimates of cost to the economy of ID theft!

[James Maskell]

Id rather the Government used the billions put aside for ID Cards into securing the borders and boosting the Home Office manpower, not on an ID Card scheme.

[Martin Smith]

I don't think NO2ID will be laying into the Tories over this though, as it does seem to have been a ploy to buy time to fight an election over this issue. The only question is whether we eventually have the courage to do so. We should, as the more people hear about the ID card scheme, the more they turn against it.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"Try attacking the issues not the man."

I'm sorry Chad, I had no idea you were such a sensitive flower - it was only a lighthearted bit of jesting (not an attack) that's all.

For what it's worth, I am a little surprised that somebody who quit the party in a huff and formed his own party still takes so much interest and has so much to say about the policy approach pursued by our party, but you are, of course, perfectly entitled to express your opinion as you see fit.

[Richard Allen]

Had I not already allowed my mebership to lapse I would have quit the party in disgust after yesterdays betrayal.

If this is a cynical ploy it will fail and it will deserve to fail. If ID cards are an election issue it will be the Liberal Democrats who will rightly reap the rewards. They will point out that the conservative party cannot be trusted on this issue, and they will be right to do so.

[Chad]

DVA,

It's nothing to do with my feelings, but about keeping the discussions focussed and on topic.

You can insult me all you like, but if you have nothing to offer on the topic, then take it offline.

I am a conservative but I disagree with Cameron's approach and could not support it as it contravened my personal beliefs, which is why I left. It was a values thing.

Disagreeing with Cameron does not exclude me from my conservative beliefs.

[kingbongo]

ID cards is surely an issue that hits so many buttons for a conservative, the cost, the breach of social contract, the potential for harsh authoritariansim etc.

I just can't believe the crossbench peers and tories rolled over on this. ID cards are wrong wrong wrong and we should have nothing to do with them. Every argument put forward for them has proved spurious.

I'm looking for an upside in the politics of it but just can't see one; we are now assisting in the wasting of vast amounts of taxpayer's cash and once its been spent are we going to guarantee to scrap the whole thing? Contracts will have been entered into and we won't be able to get out of them.

For the first time since DC became leader I think the party has made a fundamental error - this was a point of principle and we've let it slide without gaining a single thing in return. David Davis and DC will not get a 'very satisfied' from me this month.

[Richard Allen]

David Davis and DC will not get a 'very satisfied' from me this month.

Even I, as a long time fan of David Davis, felt obliged to put him down as 'very unsatisfied' because of this issue. At very least the party line should have been to abstain.

[1AM]

I am worried now... I have put David down as unsatisfied as he sounds too liberal on this area for me... please Editor don't think that everyone who is cross with Davis is strongly against ID cards.

Belgium, France, Germany and Portugal all use ID cards.

I am not particularly in favour of them, and think that the government shifts the justification for them every five minutes, but I am not against them per se. If someone in government could demonstrate that the cost would not be particularly great, and why they would be very useful or how they have been useful abroad I would shift to being vaguely in favour of them.

As for

"Three cheers for doctrinaire libertarianism!

The authoritarian conservatives can join their fellow statists in New Labour."

Most people are far more conservative than you think... just look at

http://conservativehome.blogs.com/dictionary/2005/08/family_values.html

Most people are not libertarian on ID cards either I think - they remain to be convinced, and the best way we do that is by being pragmatic not libertarian...

[Patsy Sergeant]

MP's seem to regard the taxpayer as a bottomless pit of money, in the same way that some people on benefits do, and it is getting worse, not gradually but at a gallop! Perhaps Brown regards the taxpayer as his 'plastic card'!!, it certainly seems like it. Then later he is extremely reluctant to part with any cash for schemes which won't be politically advantageous.

Perhaps somehow MP's should have to put a percentage of their own salaries into some of these schemes that they so desire (alright that is not exactly a serious suggestion, but if anything like that did have to happen, its amazing how it would concentrate their minds).

I think it IS just because there appears to be this bottomless pit of money which they can extract, which makes this government more than others recently, behave fairly irresponsibly with taxpayers money, and more than that we keep reading of other 'dodges' that this Chancellor is dreaming up to extract money from the taxpaying public, in order to pay for expensive schemes.

Concerning the ID card; the first time I was searched was in 1971 entering a supermarket in Israel, it was a bit surprising but I got used to it, and of course it happens everywhere nowadays. BUT, what I really feel uneasy about is the amount of very intimate detail that apparently will included on this ID card and on the data base, since one fact that is indisputable is that every hacker anywhere will be working his/her socks off to penetrate the database, and I don't fancy that at all.

[James Maskell]

The survey will undoubtably be affected by the ID Card fiasco. I have had to vote "fairly unsatisfied" for Davis, which is disappointing as I supported him in the election and thought much better of him than to cut this dodgy deal.

[Martin Smith]

"Belgium, France, Germany and Portugal all use ID cards."

Correct.

"Belgium, France, Germany and Portugal all use a similar system to the one proposed in the UK" if that had been what you said, and I think it's what you meant, would be thoroughly incorrect. No comparable scheme exists anywhere in the world.

The point about this ID card scheme is not the card itself, it's the national identity register, a database capable of tracking and recording virtually your every move through information given by swiping your ID card.

If a fraudster, terrorist or foreign agent wanted to get you, they'd just need to get a friend a job in the civil service and they could know your entire life story and follow your every move.

Worse than that, we will have to submit to our subjugation to a state monitoring scheme in order to have a life: passports, driving licences and services will follow.

And so the Tories have backed a compromise allowing people renewing their passport to just go on the register. What a complete dog's breakfast. The register is 90% of the reason why we should be shouting opposition to the scheme from the rooftops.

[Richard]

"Most people are far more conservative than you think... just look at"

It is possible to be a libertarian and in favour of family values.

Anyway, opposition to id cards can be on a conservative basis as I have already said. It's a British tradition that we don't "do" ID cards whereas our Continental friends do and have done for a long time.

[Paul Marks]

The greatest threat to traditional institutions (such as the family) is modern activist government.

There is no contradiction in believing in British tradition and believeing in liberty -and the British tradition is liberty.

The liberty of private individuals and associations ("the small platoons").

As for Mr Cameron.

Well, to be fair, we do not actually have much policy on anything at the moment (so one can not say "he is a Communist, I resign" or anything like that). Supposedly things are being thought about, and we will be told what are basic policies are in about 18 months time.

It is a bit odd to be a member of a party that does not have much policy. And, to judge by what is being said, I do not know whether the leadership has any principles either. But it may turn out O.K.

In 18 months Mr Cameron's people may come back to us with lots of free market policies.

I suppose we will have to wait and see.

Of course there is little point in working on any election campaigns till we know what the party is for and what it is against.

[Anne Palmer]

The House of Lords won nothing yesterday. It is the register that is the problem and who will have access to it. I no longer recognise our Houses of Parliament as British. The ID Card scheme has most certainly altered my relationship with the State and it started today.
For the Home Secretary's benefit, because he seemed to be unaware of any EU ID scheme, I first came across a "desire for EU wide ID cards in 2001.

[Richard Hudson]

We forget that ID cards are unlikely to work from a technology point of view the Home Office will have the same problems that the Chinnocks that the Govt bought that cant fly (£2billion from memory) in poor weather and the Apache's that wont work either (£3 billion) and as the technology wont work the costs to try to make it work will soar - £1.7bn try £6 billion.

[wicks]

Looks like we're positioning ourselves nicely to forming a coalition with the LibDems should a hung parliament occur at the next election.

[Richard]

"Looks like we're positioning ourselves nicely to forming a coalition with the LibDems should a hung parliament occur at the next election."

God Forbid. Agreement on ID cards is hardly a firm basis on which to found a coalition. They need to get rid of their socialistic economic urges first.

[Anne Palmer]

This below, was typed and placed here by Anne Palmer. It looks as if this blog is a tad incorrectly lined up.
The House of Lords won nothing yesterday. It is the register that is the problem and who will have access to it. I no longer recognise our Houses of Parliament as British. The ID Card scheme has most certainly altered my relationship with the State and it started today.
For the Home Secretary's benefit, because he seemed to be unaware of any EU ID scheme, I first came across a "desire for EU wide ID cards in 2001.

[Anne Palmer]

Placed here by Anne Palmer, and this is what I came back to write.
I desperately was hoping to vote for an alternative to New Labour and Blair next time there was an election (unless the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill has been activated in full by then, then of course there will be no point in voting at all), unfortunately what I have seen of your new leader so far, is as a "stand by" in case Mr Brown does not get in to continue the fourth Labour Government and then Mr Cameron will be able to continue Mr Blair's good work for the European Union. Sadly, all good works for the Union means that the United Kingdom Government does less.
Who exactly DOES govern Britain?

[matt wright]

I am disappointed on the ID cards, we should have extracted more concessions and continued to oppose them,

Matt

[Margaret]

The Tories seem to have forgotten they are supposed to be HM Opposition, they look like a lot of Blairite sycophants.

I am very disappointed. They have done nothing to oppose this Bill, or the Legislative and Regulatory Reform Bill which will enable any future Government to implement any act without reference to Parliament. Could it be that the Tories are looking to the future when they may benefit from this draconian Bill, which is almost identical to Hitler's 1933 Enabling Act.

[Esbonio]

I think that just as with a lot of other issues the Tories have been craven on ID cards.

I have very little if any confidence in the current Tory leadership. As I may have said before, I almost cringe now every time a senior Tory pronounces on just about anything.

[Chad]

Cameron needs to give an unambiguous answer to this question:

Q: If elected would you scrap not just the id cards themselves but the actual database too?

It's impossible to see right now whether he is wasting millions of pounds of taxpayers money to play political strategies or if his pledge to scrap the cards means just that; the cards only, not the database.

[Graeme Archer]

I will not carry an ID card. I will destroy any such documentation that is given to me. I will not respond to requests from any state official to see my papers. I will have to be physically forced to comply with any biometric scanning. I can't be the only Tory who feels so strongly?

I heard some teenager on Today this week - he turned out to be a New Labour home office minister, called "Andy" Burnham I think. His squeaky voice ranting about how it was the duty of a good citizen to have a compulsory ID card made me physically ill. We should NOT have compromised in the Lords but that's almost a minor point. We must give public support and backing to refuseniks.

[Chad]

I feel the same way too Graeme, although I'm not a Tory.

Unfortunately, the vote this week was the last real barrier to the project, as its core is the monster database scheme, and the Tories greenlighted it to make it happen.

Any "strategy" about opposing id cards at the next election misses the point; the tories have caved in and made it happen, and by the time of the next election, it will be too late to stop it.

Only the LibDems stood up and opposed this final barrier and perhaps the only possible salvation (not one I relish) would be a hung parliament needed LibDem support, where the Libs demand the total scrapping of the project to play ball.

However, I don't see that as likely at all, and think the current conhome figures of a 50+ Labour majority will be about right (well wrong, but you know what I mean).

[Graeme Archer]

I think Chad's completely right. We'll end up doing some halfhearted campaign at the election which will increase our vote by precisely nothing, because everyone who cares enough about this issue to have it determine their vote will vote LibDem. So by not being completely and visibly NO2ID from the start, we will end up boosting LibDem votes. Great strategy for the party that used to be about the liberty of the individual against the faceless state, eh?

[James Maskell]

Andy Burnham if I remember correctly is the Home Office Minister who wont take action against mini moto riders endangering not only their own lives but those of others. Illegal riding of mini motos is allowed as this Government cant be arsed to sort it out.

[Richard Weatherill]

I'm with you on this one, Graeme. Fortunately, my passport doesn't fall due for renewal until 2014 - but I won't apply for a new one if it involves going on the National Identity Register. In fact, I shall go to prison (or, being a coward, emigrate to a more freedom-loving country) rather than have my details kept for this purpose. The only redeeming feature (as others have pointed out) is that, given the history of government IT projects, this monstrous scheme probably won't come to fruition in my lifetime or else will become prohibitively expensive, or even - dare we hope - be abandoned by a future Conservative government!

[RodS]

I'm with Grahame Archer. I will NOT carry an ID card. This is a watershed in the relationship between individual and State. s Yesterday Cameron said that he wants Government to 'empower' people at the local level - it's people who should empower Government !!

Watch out for the growth of an 'alternative democracy. Single Issue lobbyists - all funded by subscription like Open Europe/ Civitas/Taxpayer Alliance/Migration Watch - are all making more sense than the established political parties.