Kinnock and Howe want to abolish the mile

The UK Metric Association wants all signs on Britain's roads converted from miles by the time of London's 2012 Olympics (Times).  Neil Kinnock wrote the foreword for the UKMA's report:

“Our imperial road signs contradict the image of our country as a modern, multicultural, dynamic place... If the recommendations of this report are followed, Britain can join the modern metric world by the time that the all-metric Olympic Games open in London in 2012.”

A spokesman for the Department for Transport was unimpressed:

“We don’t think there are any demonstrable benefits for making the change. Frankly, we have got better things to do with taxpayers’ money.”

The DfT estimates that a changeover would cost £750m.  The UKMA puts the cost at only 10% of that.

Geoffrey Howe joined the Kinnock-side of the argument at the end of this morning's Today programme.  At least I think he did.  I think I may have nodded off as he started to make his case.  Today found Peter Hitchens to oppose Lord Howe.  The cost of conversion was too great, he said.  The US was still largely imperial and was the world's most dynamic economy.   The British people hadn't been asked their opinion. And, in a clinching argument likely to appeal to Christopher, his brother, he noted that no decent bottle of wine is sold in litres.

Comments

[Mark Fulford]

At least it’s Kinnock suggesting it, otherwise somebody might have taken it seriously.

[johnC]

Did anyone watch 'The Apprentice' last night ? The men's team got totally confused trying to sell fruit priced in pounds using a weighing scale in kilos. I should have thought it was perfectly obvious to anyone except failed politicans whose brains have been warped by Euromania that trying to change an established system of weights and measures is the height of lunacy. Haven't we still got some obscure desert island colony somewhere where we can send Kinnock, Howe and Patten to legislate to their hearts' content without bothering the rest of us ?

[a-tracy]

Don't you feel that there is just no point objecting anymore because it's going to happen anyway! If they could figure out how to get us all driving on the right we would be by now. Roll over everyone.

Anyway I'm more bothered about the man who was driving without a driving licence, without insurance and in a stolen vehicle, who only got three months for being responsible for the death of a young child. This is what I want to hear our leaders sorting out now not tomorrow or in five years time.

[Ted]

"Our imperial road signs contradict the image of our country as a modern, multicultural, dynamic place..."

what could be more multicultural than having both miles and metres, pints and litres? Why go for the monocultural boredom of metric?

Are these people living in the real world? With Iraq, Darfur, drought across East Africa, the most important thing Kinnock & Howe can think about is tinkering with road signs?

[John]

No decent bottle of wine sold in litres??(!) Gerroffit, I suppose that's because they are all in millilitres?

If the cost is only predicted at £75 million then I suggest we change over asap. It might end up ten times over budget, but that would be a good learning experience for all involved.

You don't agree? Think about the confusion it would cause for all the old codgers who currently clog our roads. I calculate that anyone born after about 1960 will have no problem with kilometres. Those who are born before that will struggle, and anything to encourage these deadwoods off our roads, or at least to make it inconvenient for them, has my full and unqualified support.

[Annabel Herriott]

Oh John! How age-ist! I am one of those old gits "clogging up the roads" I regularly drive up to newcastle to lunch with the class of 53 - Royal Victoria Infirmary, and including popping into Darlington to pick up another old git, I normally do it in 2 1/2 hrs. What is your problem? The duff drivers have been duff drivers all their days. They are also the ones who think the odd medical check is not for them. Kilometres would not worry me, we go to France every year. I think in hours rather than miles anyway, such as Colne Valley to Bournemouth, call it 5, and Manchester in April, take the train if youve any sense. I totally agree with A-Tracey. It takes a woman to sort out priorities!

[Andy Peterkin]

Isn't wine usually in centilitres?

[Editor]

Well said, Annabel. I think insurers will confirm that young drivers are some of the least safe...

[Jonathan Sheppard]

Nice of Neil to want to get rid of MPH... didnt he once want to get rid of our membership of the EEC as it then was and also the Lords.... how times have changed!

[Chris Palmer]

"Our imperial road signs contradict the image of our country as a modern, multicultural, dynamic place..." - Neil Kinnock

What rubbish.

[James Maskell]

Yes, wine is sold in centilitres.

[Tom Greeves]

To paraphrase the timeless words of Oz in Auf Wiedersen Pet:

I have two words for Lords the Kinnock and Howe. The second one is "Off".

[a-tracy]

"I think insurers will confirm that young drivers are some of the least safe..."

Ed, how many of the three male drivers that crashed into your fence were over 55?

Probationary drivers should have to watch a video of crash scenes as a result of careless driving behaviour, if we don't correct/address their behaviour the insurance costs will carry on rising too high and then more and more will be driving without any insurance at all because the punishment is much lower than the insurance cost (approx £2000 for an 18 year old male in a C3).

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

All those slating Neil Kinnock should be grateful they didn't have to listen to him boasting about his political achievements the other day.

His speech was actually quite witty, and the best joke was definitely when he said he'd played a big part in helping transform our political landscape.

[EU Serf]

Frankly, we have got better things to do with taxpayers’ money.

Think how many Real Nappy Coordinators and Hospital Art curators you could emply with £750 Million.

[Patsy Sergeant]

What a satisfying bunch of postings, apart from agreeing strongly with 'all', they gave me a welcome chuckle and even a louder laugh, to lighten a grey cold morning!! I believe there is a word that begins with 'P' and ends with 'k' and rhymes with Kinnock!! Incidently I am also an 'old git' of the female variety, and I certainly don't 'clog' the roads up, Annabel I was/am part of 'class of '55' of the Royal Alexandra Hospital in Brighton. Perhaps as we worked much longer hours in those days, and perforce became fleet of foot, it explains why we are less likely to clog up roads and pavements!

On a more serious subject I am very pleased to learn that several other people at least seem to have a similar opinion about Howe and Patten, to the one that I have developed over the last few years.

[Editor]

a-tracy: "how many of the three male drivers that crashed into your fence were over 55?"

None!

[Richard]

"I calculate that anyone born after about 1960 will have no problem with kilometres."

I was born long after 1960 and I still do my calculation in miles.

I don't understand what Kinnock tends to achieve by this. At first I thought this was parody. What enrages me the most is the arrogance - does it not occur to him that most people in this country are probably opposed? The man is a clown.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"What enrages me the most is the arrogance - does it not occur to him that most people in this country are probably opposed?"

I don't think that concern is uppermost in his mind! I mean, most people are probably opposed to the moneygrabbing sponger filling his boots with a generous pension funded by Johnny Taxpayer and his continental cousins and Kinnock shows no conern about that!

[johnC]

While we're about it, let's bring back pounds shillings and pence and the proper counties too.

[EML]

Why do all the changes in this country have to be dictated by Lefty gits allegedly at the top of society?

If the people want change, they'll darned well let the politicians know.

I might have to move to the USA. At least they're proud to be different.

Oh, and i'm 21 and I use Imperial weights and measures, despite my teachers trying to brainwash me into accepting all those Metric units.

And, I couldn't agree more with Ted. The Left love multiculturalism because it provides them with a bit of difference to excite their otherwise dull existences. Why foist uniformity in measurements on us?

Grr, I hate people who want to destroy Britain.

[Richard]

"While we're about it, let's bring back pounds shillings and pence and the proper counties too."

Agree with the proper counties. Not so sure about the pounds, shillings and pence -might not go down too well on the money markets!

[Huntarian]

I write this as I look at Kinnock's photograph in the light bulb from the Sun front page of 9th April 92, which I had framed and still, adorns my study wall.
Dare I paraphrase the headline --- If Kinnock gets away with this one --- will the last person to leave Britain please turn out the light.

[RobC]

Didn't Konnock once get caught for driving over 100 mph? Thats 160 km ph in new money?

[James Burdett]

Could someone please for the love of God explain to me what on earth weights and measures have to do with culture? I know Neil Kinnock is usually unfathomable in his pronouncements but this has to take the biscuit...

[DavidB]

Kinnock's idea is mad. Why change? It does not damage trade, industry or safety. In fact, if someone thinks our mph signs are km/h, the result is slower driving, whilst if someone mistakes a km/h sign for mph, the result is faster.

Also, what has "modern, multi-cultural and dynamic" got to do with road signs? And how is it contradictory to this image? Haven't they got better things to do than exert European cultural hegemony over everyone?

[William Norton]

Every ounce in a mile something comes furlong which you just know inch-tinctively is completely gilly. Howe and Kinnock have been quart out making a mistacre. They should chain-ge their ton before someone knocks them off their perch.

[Burkean]

To quote Grandpa Simpson, "The metric system is the tool of the devil! My car gets forty rods to the hogshead and that's the way I likes it."

[a-tracy]

Perhaps the change to kilometres is to make it easier to recruit foreign drivers as all of our young people are training for 'high road' jobs. There is a rapid decline in the number of young people taking their driving test the % of 17-20 year olds holding licences has fallen from 43% to 26% in just ten years.

By the way the 18 year old who wanted insurance for a car (that he was buying for £2500) was quoted £3,800 fully comp - what's the fine now for driving without insurance about £150?

[Ted]

a-tracy surely its good those irresponsible young drivers won't be able to drive until they are in their 30's... editor less likely to have cars on his doorstep :-)
Seriously though its a good point - reward the feckless by slapped wrists, punish the law abiding by loading insurance to pay for the actions of the uninsured.

[Richard]

"a-tracy surely its good those irresponsible young drivers won't be able to drive until they are in their 30's... editor less likely to have cars on his doorstep :-)
Seriously though its a good point - reward the feckless by slapped wrists, punish the law abiding by loading insurance to pay for the actions of the uninsured."

Unfortunately it tends to be the feckless who can't afford insurance and if any attempt was made to force the money out of them by forcing them to sell their possessions the Human Rights brigade would be up in arms.

[John Hustings]

Can someone tell me why Geoffrey Howe's resignation speech all those years ago was supposed to be so great?

[Annabel Herriott]

Question time thought it was a crap idea too. Art Malik was the most succint (spelling?)

[Andrew]

Comparisons with other imperial measures miss the point. Miles remain dominant for the simple reason that they're on all the signs, whereas grams/celsius/litres etc have become the norm because they're simply much easier to use. Miles vs kilometres makes no difference whatsoever - it's one arbitary system vs another (the sub units bearing little relation in concept of scale to the macro-units).

Personally, at the age of 28 I find myself in a curious generational gap - not knowing what pounds/pints are in the kitchen, but unable to relate to the US use of pounds for bodyweight or the rest of the world in kg .... stones all the way for me :-)

[comstock]

"Grr, I hate people who want to destroy Britain"

If all we have to offer as a nation is a outdated system of weights and measures, I feel sorry for us. Luckily it isn't

Ireland did this a few years ago and AFAIK nobody batted an eyelid.

[Yet another Anon]

If the metric equivalents were to be included in smaller figures and a different colour and with the units used mentioned after (ie km, miles, kmh, mph) I imagine that many people would start using them instead, maybe people would buy cars with kilometres foremost on the Speedometer and in the end they could start phasing in road signs with the Kilometre figures only, I don't think there is any reason to do this all at once and it would be expensive to do it this way, rather give the options and wait until people were ready to accept the new units.

Of course this doesn't have anything to do with the EU, I still think that the UK should withdraw from the EU so that we can regain the right to deal properly with terrorists and generally with criminals, and with disobedient children - this country needs harsher penalties in prisons and the reintroduction of Execution and Torture for the more heinous crimes and banning the IRA\Sein Fein and the BNP\National front and imprisoning or executing their members and supporters.

[Yet another Anon]

If it were to be done the way I suggested then rather than going out and respraying all the road signs it would simply be done to the signs as and when it came up to time to update them because they had faded or had been vandalised, or there had been some kind of change.

[True Blue Tory]

It's high time that the likes of Geoff Howe and Ken Clarke were expelled by the party!

Anyone else agree?

[xahid]

i like thaty