IDS beats Galloway at Cambridge Union

At last night's Cambridge Union the debate was 'This House believes that military action is counterproductive in the fight against terrorism'.

The proposition team was led by Anas Altikriti, a spokesman for the Muslim Association of Britain; Tony Benn, the President of the Stop the War Coalition; and George Galloway MP.  Opposing the motion were Charles Skinner, US Embassy; Colonel Tim Collins, Iraq war veteran; and Iain Duncan Smith MP.

The motion's opponents carried the day by about 210 to 160 votes.  IDS used the debate to ridicule the way that the international left (Joe Lieberman and Tony Blair excepted) have retreated from the concepts of international solidarity.  He said that it was to the Tory Party's eternal shame that its leader once dismissed Czechoslovakia's fate with the "faraway country of which we know little" line.  Now it is the left who want to retreat behind their own borders and close their minds to the world outside.

The insularity of the American left was typified by John Kerry during the 2004 presidential election.  He complained that George Bush was opening fire stations in Iraq whilst forcing fire stations to shut down in America.

Nothing angered Christopher Hitchens more, however, than the way the left blamed failures to help Katrina-ravanged New Orleans on troop deployments in Iraq.  After proving that there had been enough US troops to mount a rescue operation on the Gulf Coast (and that the troops were probably better trained as a result of service in Iraq) he ended his Slate.com article with this attack on the redneck left:

"A favorite trope among those who try to politicize the justified outrage over New Orleans is the plight of the slum-dwellers and the dark-skinned, and quite right, too. But it's highly objectionable to be told, by those who go on in this way, that we should instantly dump the Iraqis and Kurds who are fighting for their lives in a slum that could become another slaughterhouse and plague-spot. There is something degrading and suspect here—why lavish any of our care and resources on the wogs? Does this suggestion do anything to diminish xenophobia and resentment "at home," at just the time and just the place where we don't need it? Am I expected to tell a homeless woman in Biloxi that she has just been ripped off by an Ay-rab? A scuttle from Iraq or from Afghanistan (where the Kabul-Kandahar highway also took a lot of time and equipment and manpower to build) would add to the number of stricken and broken cities in the world, and not reduce it. If liberalism and humanitarianism do not mean internationalism, they mean precisely nothing. Shame on those who try to turn the needy and the victims against each other."

Comments

[Sam Coates]

Wish I went to that, the debaters are all very interesting people.
I've noticed the nationalistic aspect to anti-war arguments a lot recently, often on QT.

[Edward]

Good to see the Union back to its best - and that the student stereotype isn't as strong as some would have.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"I've noticed the nationalistic aspect to anti-war arguments a lot recently, often on QT."

Unless you're Rhodri Morgan, when you officially have no opinion on the matter because you're not an MP.

[malcolm]

I'm not sure that Benn and Galloway are interesting people Sam.They are completely predictable and therefore are probably not particularly effective advocates outside the 'hardcore' for their cause.Collins is a very persuasive speaker as is IDS so I'm not really suprised they won the vote.
I wonder if the result would have been the same had people of the calibre of Ken Clarke,Malcolm Rifkind,General Sir Michael Rose or Brigadier Patrick Cordingly had been proposing the motion.Idle speculation I know but interesting all the same.

[Sam Coates]

I haven't seen Skinner and Altikriti before, but surely a debate with Benn and Galloway on one side, and IDS and Collins on the other would be a good spectacle! The fact that the former wouldn't be very good advocates for their wrong cause would only add to it.

[Burkean]

Interesting that a report on the Cambridge Union should contain references to two ex-Presidents of the Oxford Union.

[malcolm]

Talking of debates I went to the latest Conservative Way Forward question time debate yesterday.Last night they had 4 journos, Daniel Finkelstein,Bruce Anderson,Ross Clark and Michael Brown taking question.All except possibly Clark were very pro Cameron.More suprisingly so with few exceptions were the audience.If the 'Tebbit view' cannot prevail amongst these people where can it?
For those of you living in London or environs these debates are usually of a very quality and well worth attending,and it's only a tenner with free drinks!

[Richard]

"Unless you're Rhodri Morgan, when you officially have no opinion on the matter because you're not an MP."

That sight of him trying to wiggle out of that was hilarious. He probably thinks the war was wrong but doesn't want to contradict the Dear Leader.

[gingeral]

As a Cambridge student I was desperately trying to get to see this, but alas it was full by the time I arrived. I understand that Galloway made a complete fool of himself. I did see GG at the Union a couple of years ago, Malcolm Rifkind sliced and diced him in a motion about "America's Dream being the world's nightmare"

[William Norton]

I'm not sure how much weight to place on winning these things. The equivalent body at UCL has an annual debate on the motion "This House has no confidence in HM Government", the point being that by immemorial tradition it always passes.

Except, famously, for one occasion: Eden "won" ... a few months before Suez.

Then, after I graduated, John Major won.

I think Blair might have won soon after coming to power.

There's a message there, could we only decipher it....