How long can Blair go on like this...?
Defeated over his terrorism bill...
His own Deputy PM rebelling publicly against his education reforms...
Chaos in his Cabinet over the smoking ban...
Rebellion brewing over his ID cards bill...And now an unexpected defeat on the religious hatred bill - a politically cynical piece of legislation, designed to curry favour with Muslim voters that Labour lost over Iraq.
The Telegraph thinks that Government Chief Whip Hilary Armstrong may be in the firing line for the defeat. She had apparently allowed up to 25 Labour MPs to miss the vote in order to campaign for the Dunfermline and Fife West by-election. Tony Blair himself missed the second vote on the bill - a vote that the Government lost by just one vote.
The defeat of the religious hatred provisions is a victory for a broad cross-section of campaigners. Tories and LibDems joined forces with churchleaders and comedians to oppose what Labour had planned. Rowan Atkinson had expressed his deep concern "for all performers and entertainers, because the climate in which we work will be very different if the government gets its way". The Evangelical Alliance had warned that Britain risked seeing "the onset of an era in which freedom of speech and good relationships between religions will be threatened”.
On his blog Iain Dale describes the result as "another Commons victory for the Shadow Home Affairs team". David Davis and Dominic Grieve were also at the heart of Tony Blair's 'ninety-day defeat'. Iain also highlights the speech that Michael Gove gave in the debate. It certainly was brilliant stuff. Here is a key extract from Michael's contribution:
"There is one final area where the state arrogates to itself unwarranted power in the Bill—that is, in the very definition of what constitutes religion. It is wrong that the state should be able to extend to any group of believers a privileged status by saying that they constitute a fit and proper religion. If we consider recent reports about what happened in the Navy when an individual officer claimed for himself, on the basis that he was a Satanist, a safe religious space in which to enact his rituals, we can see that the present Government and future Governments may extend to all sorts of cults and other unsavoury groups the protection that is in the Bill.
I have no hesitation in saying, safeguarded by privilege as I am, that I regard Scientology as an evil cult founded by an individual purely in the interests of enriching himself and sustained by those who are either wicked or wayward. But if the Bill were to pass and I were to repeat those comments outside this House as an ordinary civilian, I would lay myself open to prosecution simply for having sought to point out the dangers of a fraudulent organisation masquerading as a religion."
Congratulations indeed to Michael Gove, for helping to emasculate this rotten bill.
Posted by: Sean Fear | February 01, 2006 at 08:50
Go Gove go!
A moment of bliss before turning in - especially the government loosing the second vote because TB was itching to leave the House so took the first excuse.
A thoroughly bad bit of legislation that has hopefully been emasculated.
Posted by: Ted | February 01, 2006 at 09:15
Hilary Armstrong may as well quit before being booted out. This is her third serious mistake since Cameron became Leader.
That said lets hope Blair she stays - sure she will cock the education bill vote up as well.
Posted by: Zhukov | February 01, 2006 at 09:16
Hilary Armstrong may as well quit before being booted out. This is her third serious mistake since Cameron became Leader.
That said lets hope she stays - sure she will cock the education bill vote up as well.
Posted by: Zhukov | February 01, 2006 at 09:17
A fantastic victory for religious freedom and cohesion, I'd almost lost hope on this one a long time ago.
Posted by: Sam Coates | February 01, 2006 at 09:42
I think one bit of personal courage was that Mark Oaten turned up and voted against the government - couldn't have been an easy return to the House but without him they might have scraped through on the second division.
Posted by: Ted | February 01, 2006 at 10:03
Interesting to note the parallel between this and the other debate regarding the EPP (and their right to views some of us may disagree with).
Personally I think free speech is very important and we should be very careful when circumscribing it.
I think religion is a bunch of outdated supersition and that some religions are worse than others, significantly so. And, I think, I should be free to say so. I have religious friends, they know my opinions, and they are free to disagree with them. That is the way things should be in a free country.
Posted by: Account Deleted | February 01, 2006 at 10:05
"I think one bit of personal courage was that Mark Oaten turned up and voted against the government - couldn't have been an easy return to the House but without him they might have scraped through on the second division."
Charles Kennedy and Pussy Galore, sorry Galloway, were there as well. Although Galloway voted with the government. It would almost have been worth the bill scraping through by one vote just to see the government's embarrassment at relying on Galloway to get the bill through!
Posted by: Daniel Vince-Archer | February 01, 2006 at 10:13
The government should not be privileging some opinions over others. That includes Mr Gove's opinions on Scientology! I too consider it a scam, but the state has no more business banning it than it does banning criticism.
Posted by: Julian Morrison | February 01, 2006 at 10:16
You would have thought Gorgeous George's recent experience of censorship in the other House might have made him think a bit...
Posted by: Ted | February 01, 2006 at 10:51
Michael Gove's speech was a reminder why we love him so. Read the full thing on Hansard. I hope those rightwingers who have slagged him off on this site in recent times will now acknowledge his contribution to the Conservative cause.
Posted by: Tory T | February 01, 2006 at 12:31
I'm suprised that this has not generated more comment. I'll repeat "The governement lost a vote because the Prime Minister could not be bothered to vote"
This seriously undermines the Prime Minister. How can he persuade the wavering MPs to back him on future votes when the PM cannot be bothered to vote himself? How can he turn out his vote?
This is the begining of the end, the rebels have tasted success, and Blair will be gone within a year.
Posted by: RobC | February 01, 2006 at 12:38
If Keith Joseph had one brain and David Willets has two brains - how many does Gove have??!!
I hope we find good ways of deploying this intellect without frightening everyone off.
If there is any justice in the world - ID cards would become Blair's poll tax, and I suggest Gove may well be the man to write the script for their downfall.
Posted by: Richard Bailey | February 01, 2006 at 12:40
Amused hear poor Minister Goggins (Bloggins surely) claiming today that at least there was an offence of inciting Religious Hatred on the statutue book..last night he said at opening of debate
"Those changes considerably reduce the scope of the Bill, to the extent that, in our view, it would be virtually impossible to bring a successful prosecution."
So Government position seems to be that they have fulfilled their promise but it is pretty meaningless.
Posted by: Ted | February 01, 2006 at 13:26
"So Government position seems to be that they have fulfilled their promise but it is pretty meaningless"
Of course.. in the immortal words of Sir Humphrey describing government forming policy
"Something must be done, this is something, therefore we must do it."
Yet another piece of unnecessary legislation destined to be used in inappropriate ways no doubt. How long before the Archbishop of Canterbury or Chief Rabbi are getting their collar felt? Shall we have a sweepstake?
Posted by: Mike Christie | February 01, 2006 at 13:52
Has anyone else seen the appalling problems Denmark has encountered when it entered the religious debate?
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/4669210.stm
The BBC outrageously seem to imply towards the end of the article that rather than Muslims over-reacting, that instead the people who published the cartoons should be ashamed of the 'unseemly row' they have created.
Unfortunately, with growing islamic populations across Europe I fear that religious criticism will soon vanish due to much more dark forces than the threat of police action, if the troubles in Holland in relation to Van Gogh and Ayaan Hirst Ali are anything to go by.
Posted by: Account Deleted | February 01, 2006 at 14:15
Mark Oaten turns up, Tony Blair doesn't, Michael Gove and Ann Widdecombe join forces (as do Rowan Atkinson and the Evangelical Alliance), 25 Labour MPs go up to Scotland on the day of a highly contentious vote, the Government's whipping operation falls apart, but Cornerstone's comes together.
Is this series of highly unlikely events a matter of mere chance or evidence of intelligent design?
Posted by: Peter Franklin | February 01, 2006 at 15:40
AH Peter, does it matter how we got where we are? Can't we just embrace it as something important?
It certainly didn't all happen in the last 7 days...
Though on the second vote, having seen the mess the whips had created, our Lord Tony rested.
Posted by: Account Deleted | February 01, 2006 at 16:11
But for heavens sake, let Michael Gove upload a different picture, he doesn't look like a school boy in real life!
Posted by: Goldie | February 01, 2006 at 18:36
Michael Gove's speech was a reminder why we love him so. Read the full thing on Hansard. I hope those rightwingers who have slagged him off on this site in recent times will now acknowledge his contribution to the Conservative cause.
As a rightwinger who has criticised Gove in the past I will awknowledge that his speech was extremely good. That being said I still remain deeply suspicious of him. How does the speech he made last night square with his "I love Tony Blair" article.
Posted by: Richard Allen | February 01, 2006 at 21:21
No mention of Dominic Grieve. He worked hard in convincing many MPs to vote against this bill.
I think he is one of our most consistent performers. Not in the limelight like Gove, but always delivering.
Didn't he win Parliamentarian of the year in 2005?
I think he deserves more recognition. Perhaps next time we have a conservativehome poll, we will have the option of giving him a rating.
Posted by: Biodun | February 03, 2006 at 21:21
Definately agree with you on Grieve, one of the most intelligent speakers I have seen and deserves more recognition.
Posted by: Rob Largan | February 04, 2006 at 01:42
Thank you Biodun. We'll find a way of including Dominic Grieve and some of the other 'second tier' frontbenchers in a future poll (if not February's).
Posted by: Editor | February 04, 2006 at 01:59
Surely it is time to ban the BNP, National Front, Socialist Labour, Respect and the Communist Party; in addition action needs to be taken to address the fact that currently only Anglicanism, Judaism and Sikhism are protected under the law - surely it would be logical to have a Blasphemy Law covering defamation of God generally and banning ridiculous slurs on the major religions against the Old Testament Prophets, the Apostles and Jesus Christ.
Posted by: Yet another Anon | February 04, 2006 at 03:34