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The starkest international comparisons are on the big killer. Just taking Britain and America as examples:

A woman with breast cancer in Britain, has (or at least, a few years ago had, since all medical statistics are a few years old) a 46 per cent chance of dying from it. In America, the chances of dying are far lower - only 25 per cent.

If diagnosed as having cancer of the prostate in Britain, there's a 57 per cent chance of dying. But in America, the chances of dying from the disease are only 19 per cent.

If you have colon cancer, in Britain, 40 per cent survive for five years after diagnosis. In America, 60 per cent do.

With cancer of the oesophagus, survival rates are low all round the world. In Britain, a mere seven per cent of patients live for five years after diagnosis. In America, the survival rate is still low, but much better at 12 per cent.

Goldie: Glad we agree that there were some good bits in Cameron's speech. The point is that the overall account Cameron is offering is simply completely INCOHERENT. And this incoherence will be punctured by Gordon Brown at a time of HIS choosing. I don't think it is incoherent but it is certainly different to the kinds of argument that we have had in recent years from either Party. Personally, I doubt whether it will be at all easy for Gordon Brown to puncture it with one of his tirades of dubious statistics or even one of his sweeping assertions about lost hospitals and schools. But only time will tell.

James H: there should be more than enough information here on the Civitas website. Thanks. Will look at some of that in the near future.

And there's more on the Reform website. While they do have an obvious agenda, there are links to material by other organisations that are both partisan (like Civitas) and non-partisan (like the BMJ).

"Goldie, as with John, you have to support this criticism of the NHS with data."

Okay let's just taking one example:

Coronary Heart Disease.

The average premature death rate for men in Australia, Germany and Canada is 185 per 100,000, compared to 265 in Britain.

In Australia, Germany and Canada, 33% fewer women die each year of coronary heart disease than in Britain.

I could give other examples with other diseases, but given the nature of what we're dealing with, there is an awful lot of different data that could be given as examples. Suffice to say, it is staggering how often on different league tables, Britain comes bottom or close to bottom in comparisons.

My overall point, however, is that the party should be articulating these failings continually, and it should emphasise that its solution is not to be found in a change of management but a change of system.

A change of system does *not* necessarily leave you with a US system (as people *constantly* falsely claim). We should emphasise that Germany and France are our models to copy, not the US.

Here is David Green arguing for what *we* should be arguing for:

http://www.civitas.org.uk/pubs/BMJ31Mar01.php

A lot of the info on the NHS can be obtained here:

http://www.thewelfarestatewerein.com/archives/nhs/index.php

As for the American system, much of the high costs are caused by government regulations, taxation and state medical boards.

http://www.mises.org/fullstory.aspx?Id=1749
http://www.lfb.com/index.php?deptid=843&parentid=26&stocknumber=CU9040&page=1&itemsperpage=24

Just seen Norman Tebbit on BBC News.

As expected, he was measured and reasonable, completely unlike the caricature that is constantly painted of him.

As ever, I can't say I completely agree with him, but I do regret referring to him as a swivel-eyed fossil during the leadership contest.

The likes of Simon Heffer and others from that particular wing of Conservative opinion would do well to follow the example set by Norman Tebbit and keep their criticism calm, measured and constructive.

God. What a lot of waffle on this site.

All that matters is the politics of real life ! e.g. Survival of the fittest - more givers (net taxpayers) than takers and the acceptance that nobody, but nobody, does anything for nothing. It may be harsh but when the dreamworld of socialism hits the buffers - the cry will go out for old Tory principles 'Pay for what you get and personal responsibility' - And where will we be ? Skulking on the so-called Centre Ground!!

Tebbit may be old - but by golly he's right !!

"Tebbit may be old-but by golly he's right!!"

hear hear!
I find the calls on this board to gag Lord Tebbit and others who are not impressed with the Boy Wonder and his Cabal and have the teremity to say so publicly are somewhat, shall we say,Pol Potish.

Norman Tebbit is of the generation that gave the best years of their lives...and in many cases their lives... to ensure our freedoms. That in my view inclides freedom of speech.If in exercising that freedom people upset DC, tough.It's still a free country...just

Norman Tebbit helped us win handsome victories. What are Cameron's achievements on this...zilch

I really wish David Cameron get's hit by a 4x4 whilst riding to work on his bike. Norman Tebbit, as ever, is spot on. Cameron has turned the Conservative Party into some sort left-wing environmental pressure group. The Conservative Party is a joke, Brown must being laughing his head off. I am young, working-class and aspirant. Didn't the Conservative Party used to seek out my vote? Now it only seems interested in courting favour with minority interest organisations. It really is quite amazing to think that a Party once led by the likes of Margaret Thatcher and Norman Tebbit is now led by a bunch of gutless hooray Henry's intent on mimicing the Labour
Party.

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