Cameron: We don't do flags on the front lawn

Later today David Cameron will present the Greatest Briton Award.  According to The Telegraph, contenders include Ellen MacArthur, the yachtswoman and Andrew Flintoff, the Test cricketer, in the sports category; Jamie Oliver in campaigning; and Jonathan Ive, the iPod designer, in creative industries (a very worthy candidate).

The Tory leader will take the opportunity to distance himself from Gordon Brown's recent remarks on Britishness in which the Scottish Chancellor encouraged popular flag-flying.  Mr Cameron will say that understatement and reserve are intrinsic characteristics of being British:

"We don't do flags on the front lawn."

I wonder if Liam Fox has seen Mr Cameron's remarks?  Only last October the new Shadow Defence Secretary was very enthusiastic about flag-waving:

"When I suggested recently that all schools in Britain should fly the Union flag as a symbol of what unites us I was told it was racist. By what possible stretch of the meaning of the word could even the most crazed member of the politically correct brigade regard flying your own flag outside your own schools as racist.  Let us send them a message: this conference will never be ashamed of the Union Flag."

My guess is that Liam hasn't seen the remarks (I've certainly had no contact with him or his staff).  I also wonder how much the shadow cabinet is being involved in all of David Cameron's first 100 days announcements on tax etc.  One member of the shadow cabinet and another senior frontbencher have described the power of the kitchen cabinet around Mr Cameron.  It's no big deal yet as both men (and they are men) are content with the direction of the Cameron leadership.  The power of the kitchen cabinet may yet become a source of concern for less contented MPs, however. 

Comments

[James Hellyer]

I also wonder how much the shadow cabinet is being involved in all of David Cameron's first 100 days announcements on tax etc.

Not at all? Even on economic policy, what's emerged sounds more like the words of Letwin than those of a pre-December 6th Osborne.

[wasp]

Cameron won a 68% mandate quite frankly he can take advice from puff the magic dragon if he wants.

[Matthew Oxley]

I don't think it gives him a mandate to completely Ignore other MP's.

I think he is putting pressure on himself ; he's going to need to deliver consistantly well otherwise they'll have him. Clearly 'Dave' is completely moving from a right-wing party that tries to reach out a little to the center, to a center party that reaches out a little to the right (and also works on the assumption the right have nowhere else to go). The problem with this for Dave is the timescale of things, it's not like he took over with ~18-30 months before an election, where he could have got us good % gains and a safe 30-40 more seats - if that was the case we'd probably accept this in the name of the progress and give him until the next election to deliver a huge win.

The Danger is that the next general election is 4+ years away still, and in that time he could upset a lot of Key people (Dr Fox has a pretty high standing both with MP's and members). If he delivers big gains - perhaps a minority government - he should be fine but if not then the party could descend into another civil war.

[James Cleverly]

To be fair to both parties there is a world of difference between flying the Union flag outside public buildings and outside private houses.

I would love to see our flag flown more; this should be by choice because of national pride rather than by compulsion. The end result should be for us as a nation to stop being embarrassed about our selves, our history and our flag.

[James Hellyer]

Cameron won a 68% mandate quite frankly he can take advice from puff the magic dragon if he wants.

Only if he wants to be Sectioned under the Mental Health Act.

[Ed R]

But... we don't do flags on the front lawn, he's absolutely correct. The fact that Scottish leaders want to drape themselves in the flag to make themselves acceptable to an English public which has been growing increasingly irritated by the blatant favouritism shown to Scotland by the cabal of ruling Scots in the Labour party doesn't mean Cameron should match them flag for flag. Liam Fox's point is well made -- we shouldn't be afraid of waving our own flag -- but equally, we shouldn't get too carried away with it either. I know plenty of great British patriots who would see the American-style flag waving as a bit tacky -- and certainly counter-intuitive.

[William Norton]

If someone wants to stick a flag on their lawn then - providing it's well secrured and isn't going to fall on me - let 'em. It's a matter between them and their flag-supplier.

Mind you, I might draw the line at the swastika...

[James Maskell]

"We don't do flags on the front lawn." Hes right, I dont, but that sounds like an order, not to mention a generalisation. Are we being told that we arent allowed to have the flag up...are you sure this wasnt Maude saying that?

[john Skinner]

David Cameron will say in his speech today, "We don't do flags on the lawn." A true observation, I'd say. He didn't say anything about flags in public buildings including schools. The tone of his speech suggests he would approve of them.
Apparently, Editor, you have no idea whether Dr Fox was consulted, so it's a pity you feel the need to make a bit of mischief over "consultation with colleagues".

[Richard Allen]

What Dave should have said was

"We don't need politicians telling us to fly flags on our lawn. If we want to fly flags we will, if we don't, we won't"

Instead he says

"We don't do flags on the front lawn"

Which implies that anyone who might think it a good idea is somehow wrong. It's just typical of the arrogant managerialism of the man.

[Chris Palmer]

Perhaps David Cameron could buck the trend and go against the cynical vote winning strategy of Gordon Brown and other politically correct organisations to encourage national pride. The Labour party and the media have for years confined such things to the far-right. In the current Conservative party spirit of “reclaiming” the ground from our opponents, perhaps the party should reclaim “flag-waving” from the far-right.

However, I don’t expect this to happen anytime soon if ever, as currently the BBC (among others) are attempting to purge themselves of anything that might be considered British or nationalistic (the UK Theme off Radio Four for example.) However, rather strangely the BBC continue to call themselves the British Broadcasting Corporation. Perhaps they'll change their name soon to "The Broadcast Company" (TBC) as the 'British' in their name must surely be insulting to someone. Further, if you ever watch the local regional BBC news (and I expect the same is the case in all areas,) the BBC accept regional pride and in most cases actively encourage it – yet when it comes to national pride, that’s a big “no, no.”

[Alexander Drake]

Cameron's take on the flag and patriotism sucks.

The Union Jack is the best advertisement for the rule of law, democracy and the English language that I know. So much so that we keep it on the Australian flag with pride.

Today's Australia Day - our national day, the anniversary of when Captain Arthur Phillip raised the (Queen Anne) Union Jack in 1788 and claimed New South Wales for King George III.

On Wednesday night, we had Australia Day Live here in Canberra, a concert where about 35 000 people went to a concert with lots of awesome acts, and the PM announced who the Australian of the Year was.

If you want an idea of how proud we are of the Union Jack on our flag, check this picture out from last year's Australia Day Live concert.

The Union Jack is a great flag and we are proud it is part of our heritage. Don't be so stuffy, Dave.

[johnC]

If we really want to defend the Union Jack we should stand up to the Foreign Office's malign schemes to lower it in those few places around the world where it still flies, such as Gibraltar.

[R UK]

The Cameron game is not that hard to follow. He will not advocate a policy which could be misrepresented. Flying flags could be presented as racist, nationalist, xenophobic and so on. There is therefore more to lose than gain. So flag-waving goes....for now. When it comes to crunch decisions where it matters - such as the EPP, Cameron holds a firm line. I'd prefer to see PR-intelligent flag waving of the Cameron kind than none at all, or too much which would play into our enemy's hands.

[Tory T]

Mr Maskell says: "Are we being told that we arent allowed to have the flag up...are you sure this wasnt Maude saying that?"

I'm anxious, James. Can you show us where Maude said that? Or perhaps you can point us to some statement of a similar character that might lead a reasonable person to conclude that Maude is the sort of person who believes that flying the union flag should be banned.

[True Blue]

The conservative party is not the best positioned party to "reclaim the flag" from the gibbering far-right. Just as only Nixon can go to China, only the centre left, or a political consensus group can do this.

If we wrap ourselves in the flag or make a big deal out of it, we give the appearance of being jingoistic throwbacks, just like the US flag-burning amendment supporters.

I think the point Cameron was trying to make is part of being British is understatement and a lack of insecurity about nationality. We just don't need to wave the union flag to be British.

[Mike Christie]

Dearie me, we do seem to have people determined to read deep meanings into everything Cameron says.

All he is saying is that British patriotism has always been a more private thing. The quiet pride in having the world's finest armed forces, the knowledge that one comes from a country that has had far more influence on world history, culture, trade and invention than any damp little island has any right to.

It isn't about having a flag in your garden, its about having the spirit, will, humour in adversity, willingness to queue in an orderly fashion and all the other characteristics of being British.

I am proud to be British, of our history, of the influence for good Britain has been through the centuries. Having a damp bit of cloth hanging forlonly in the garden makes no difference to that.

I would far rather see British history taught with pride in our schools than flags in gardens.

Patriotism and pride have declined because we have allowed the wooly-headed to convince us that our heritage is one of which we should feel guilty. Of course I'm not advocating re-writing history, there were incidents that were far from glorious, but that should not stop us taking pride in our unique heritage!

[Bruce]

The Republican Party in the US, the Conservative Party in Canada, and the Liberal Party in Australia encourage, not discourage, flag diplaying. All three of these parties have recently won elections, and have been doing far better than the UK Tories. Cameron's statement appears to contradict policies that have proven successful for right-wing parties throughout the English-speaking world.

And if displaying a flag is somehow considered controversial, considered a vote loser, then Britain has deep, deep problems.

[Jack Stone]

I am afriad there are some on this frankly mischief making site who would say that David Cameron had got it wrong if he said rain is made of water.
These people are not interested in getting the party back into power they are simply only interested in proving themselves right!

[John Hustings]

Part of the reason we don't do flags on front lawns in this country is that you're not allowed to. It's perceived as "racist". Councils tell people to take them down.

[James Hellyer]

I am afriad there are some on this frankly mischief making site who would say that David Cameron had got it wrong if he said rain is made of water.

No, we'd just think he was banal.

[Mark Fulford]

"Part of the reason we don't do flags on front lawns in this country is that you're not allowed to. It's perceived as "racist". Councils tell people to take them down."

Where did this happen? Government is too big already and worrying about normal flag-flying really shouldn't be in its remit.

[John Hustings]

"Where did this happen? Government is too big already and worrying about normal flag-flying really shouldn't be in its remit."

http://www.peterboroughtoday.co.uk/ViewArticle2.aspx?SectionID=845&ArticleID=1013963

[Richard]

Why is it that when absurd things like this occur the Tory leadership remain silent? Why is there not utter condemnation and mockery of the idiots behind these regulations? Political correctness will only be defeated when people make more of a fuss about it instead of just grumbling silently.

[libertorian]

I am afriad there are some on this frankly mischief making site who would say that David Cameron had got it right if he said Jack Stone talked sense.
These people are not interested in proving themselves right, they are simply only interested in getting the party back into power!

[James Maskell]

Tory T, it was sarcasm.

[True Blue]

In this country - specifically in this country - the flag has been appropriated by the far right as their symbol. That is not true in the US, Canada or Australia (anti-monarchist protests aside.)

[Burkean]

Drake he's in his hammock till the great Armada come.
(Capten, art tha sleepin' there below?)
Slung atween the round shot, listenin' for the drum,
An' dreamin' arl the time o' Plymouth Hoe.
Call him on the deep sea, call him up the Sound,
Call him when ye sail to meet the foe;
Where the old trade's plyin' an' the old flag flyin',
They shall find him ware an' wakin', as they found him long ago!

-- Sir Henry Newbolt, Drake's Drumhttp://www.poemhunter.com/p/m/poem.asp?poet=6728&poem=29748

The point being that this "understatement and reserve" never used to apply to the flag. Off you go, Sir Francis, you're not needed in this brave new world.

Or, to paraphrase another Newbolt poem, someone dropped the torch and no-one is bothering to pick it up.

[True Blue]

The flag in Peterborough was against planning regs. The woman who put it up said she was "not racist". Who said she was? You need planning permission to put a flag up. I must be political correctness gone mad, or perhaps a local newspaper overreacting?

[Oberon Houston]

One thing is certain - Browns motives are not honourable. Nothing the guy says should be taken at face value, his endorsement of the Education White Paper, or any other position he takes.

[Mark Fulford]

"The flag in Peterborough was against planning regs."

Yes, the story wasn't quite as sensational as I thought it was going to be. The planning regulations allowed for one flag, not two. They were up for 10 months before she got any hassle, so she'd already had quite a lot of leeway. IMO they did look very out of place and, if I were I one of her neighbours, I think I'd have asked the planning dept to get involved.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"I am afriad there are some on this frankly mischief making site who would say that David Cameron had got it wrong if he said rain is made of water."

I suspect Scandinavian woodsmen and anglers would agree with those mischief-makers.

[John Hustings]

I think people have missed the point here.

The flags were dubbed by the council as "unauthorised advertising" and that's why they were ordered to take them down. But the national flag is not "advertising" of any sort, so it's just blatant anti-patriotic political correct councillors looking for an excuse.

[James Maskell]

Thanet District Council has proudly had a Union Jack up at its offices, at the Mayors offices, as well as at the famous Nayland Rock Hotel since at least May 2003. When the World Cup begins in June I will have no shame in having a Union Flag/St Georges Cross up in my window as well as supporting the lads from my local pub!

[James Hellyer]

... it's just blatant anti-patriotic political correct councillors looking for an excuse.

But they don't like the idea of flying the flag, so that's okay!

[Matthew Oxley]

I would like to associate myself with the comments of William Norton.

On the wider issue there seems to be an increasingly unpleasent polarisation between the members on this site.

It almost seems if some of us are at war with the uncompromising modernisers (Jack Stone, Cllr Lindley etc. We are all here because we believe in the sucess of conservative values but obviously we'll all have different ideas of how we achieve that . I am still cautious of *some* of David Cameron's actions yet somehow I feel as I've landed into a group which includes people like the Cornerstone.

We'll all have views, Including the editor (hello, this is a blog!), If I didn't wan't to have political views I'd be a politician . If I don't happen to agree with a particular policy It's because I'm giving my opinion as a member of the party rather than having anti anti-cameron agenda.

[Richard]

"IMO they did look very out of place and, if I were I one of her neighbours, I think I'd have asked the planning dept to get involved."

If I was a neighbour I'd mind my own business. Even if they were flying a USSR flag or a swastika I'd leave them to it. Unless they were lowering the value of my house.

[Daniel Vince-Archer]

"On the wider issue there seems to be an increasingly unpleasent polarisation between the members on this site."

It's been here a while - it's something that's lingered since the leadership contest.

Thankfully we've managed to largely avoid any of the distasteful spats that tended to occur from time to time during the contest, probably because the likes of John Coulson have been rightly banished by the Editor.

[Mike Christie]

"The point being that this "understatement and reserve" never used to apply to the flag. Off you go, Sir Francis, you're not needed in this brave new world."

What nonsense! No-one is suggesting for a minute that we shouldn't take pride in the flag, but that we carry that pride in our hearts. We just don't feel the need to compete with our neighbours in ostentatious patriotism and 'my flag is bigger than yours' displays of national pride. That has never been the British way as a rule, of course in wartime, or times where national pride is at stake, like during sporting contests, patriotism will come more to the fore.

By all means fly the flag high on all public buildings.

[malcolm]

Absolutely agree with your sentiments Mathew.As someone who has often been guilty of poor phrasing or rather badly expressed posts I would hope that those bloggers with whom I most frequently disagree do not regard my disagreements with them as personal attacks.

[Bruce]

A Conservative Party shouldn't discourage ordinary people in Peterborough from flying the flag. What better way to expose the inanity of nanny-state "planning regulations", strike a blow for freedom of speech and patriotism, and get lots of free publicity besides?

[tally]

The Peterbrough flag incident was over England's flag and not the union flag.New Labour have only fallen in love with the Union Flag because they don't like the idea of England.

[Tally]

also what Liam Fox called for was that the Welsh and Scots should fly their own flags but in England the union flag should be flown.He is another like Gordon that gets mixed up about England and Britain.

[John M]

God-willing, when we finally complete on our house purchase, the first thing I will do once settled in is to erect a flagpole in my back garden and a fly a large St George Cross flag from it. Then I will start a stopwatch and count the number of seconds it takes for some piece of slime from Bristol City Council to tell me that I cannot fly my own country's flag on my own land. I don't think it will be long.

[jc]

if you contact your local councils there is an agreed list of dates when flags can be flown on public buildings it was put together by the government the torys fefused to take part insisting it was a gimmick