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Someone commented in one of the other threads that Cameron has ditched the Party's fisheries policy. Where's the evidence for this?

"Seldom in the course of European negotiations has so much been surrendered for so little.”

Terrific line from Hague.


I can't believe people objected to the Blair is a liar poster at the election! This is the umpteenth time he's said one thing and done the complete opposite!

Blair has once more let himself down, and let his country down. He's all spin and no delivery. The only way to negotiate with the EU is to go to the brink and then beyond. Once the others realised that Blair was a soft touch we were doomed. I hope that William and Dave expose this betrayal for what it is.

I think this is good news for two reasons.1.Makes Labour more unpopular,always a good thing.2It brings closer the day when we start to question our membership of the EU.That is a debate for which I am longing!

Maybe so malcom, but I cant help feel this is a lost opportunity. Think back to earlier this year with the Referendum defeats and France and the rest of 'old Europe in a very weak position, it looked like the UK had a golden opportunity to take the initiative and reshape Europe. Somehow thanks to the sheer incompetance of Labour this situation has changed to us being forced to give up the rebate for nothing in return. Not only do we lose out on £7bn but we lose out on failing to get any reforms of the EU and we are still stuck with the disasterous CAP. The UK, the EU and the developing nations will all suffer because of Blair's failure.

That's nice of Mr Blair. A £7bn concession equates to two pence on the basic rate of income tax, and for what? A photo opportunity with other EU leaders.

Someone commented in one of the other threads that Cameron has ditched the Party's fisheries policy. Where's the evidence for this?


Well, the biggest sign that this budget deal rips us off is the fact that the oither EU leaders love it and have agreed to it!

Blair's going to find that the Party are going to give him a tough time when he returns. With Britain being very Euro-sceptic, Labour should think that they are going to be in some trouble if they cant find a way of getting things back on track.

Its good fun to watch though from the blue camp! He was screwed whichever way he went. Either tell Chirac where to stick his CAP and find he has no deal, which would damage his credibility and give the iompression he has no skill at all at persuasion, or allow any amount of the rebate to go and be found guilty of selling the family silver.

The rebate was delivered in the year of my birth. It will now be chipped away at now due to the precedent set this week.

Well done Ol' Chap!

Actually my friends, it's even worse than you've been saying.

Because that £7 bn is just the abatement in the rebate- an adjustment to an adjustment. In straightforward cash outlay, Tony has agreed Britain's net contribution for the budgeted 7 years will be a projected £42 bn. Which compares to an estimated out-turn net contribution in the most recent 7 years of £23 bn. Which on my reckoning comes out at an increase of not £7bn, but...er, £19 bn.

Plus of course, the NET contribution takes no account of the spending on EU programmes INSIDE Britain, mainly CAP and those regional subsidies. Don't know about you, but as a taxpayer, I count that as part of the EU cost. And during the last 7 years it meant our GROSS spending on EU programme's was more than double our net budget contribution.

Needless to say, we don't yet have any detail, but I estimate the gross cost of Tony's 7 year deal is somewhere in the range £70-100 bn.

If you can bear it, there are more details at http://burningourmoney.blogspot.com/2005/12/eu-budget-bonfire-costs-us-100-bn.html

I'm off for a drink.

Daniel Hannan's newsletter today says that for the same money Blair could have abolished half of Council tax or Inheritance Tax and Capital gains Tax combined.

1) Blair's a disgraceful sell out.

2) Why are we being misinformed by posters on this blog that Cameron has abandoned the Party's fisheries policy?

Read the link provided by Goldie - then follow the comments. It turns out that certain paranoid UKIP types simply assumed it would happen - but it hasn't. UKIP smears retailed here as 'fact'.

What a letdown, for once I thought France would give in and allow Cap reform...

Nope its our money..yet again.

Did anyone here seriously believe Tony Blair would be able to negotiate in Britain’s best interests and be able to reform the CAP? This is without doubt disappointing news, yet not at all surprising.

There never was a chance that Chirac in his perilous political position would have agreed to ANYTHING which would have damaged his interests or those of the French.Therefore the choice was between no deal or a bad deal.Blair chose the latter,I would have gone for the former.
Let's see how much Hague is able to exploit this over the coming days.It's an open goal,we must, MUST be able to score!

JH "A £7bn concession equates to two pence on the basic rate of income tax, and for what?"

WT "I estimate the gross cost of Tony's 7 year deal is somewhere in the range £70-100 bn."

Now what does that sort of figure buy Mr Blair personally? It isn't in Brown's interest to do it and it certainly wasn't in the UK's interest! So what has TB been promised personally if he agreed to this deal? We've been had and if the Tories can't capitalise on this c**k up then they don't deserve to be in power.

Tony had a press conference and photocall with EU leaders.

What more could anybody ask?

Re Edgar's previous comments on Cameron's alleged abandonment of the fisheries policy.

I've no idea what's happened to fisheries policy but I wouldn't use the item on the link as evidence of anything. Stories posted on that website (EU Referendum) should be treated with, ahem, caution. They have an agenda, and their zeal could occasionally interfere with their analysis of the facts. (Technically, though, if "Richard" the author of the particular blog item is who I think it is, he's not a 'paranoid UKIP type' because I think he's no longer in UKIP. Attention to detail.)

For the record I would repeat the relevant exchange from Hansard:

Mr. Bradshaw (i.e. the Minister for Fish): Given the leader of the Conservative party's pledge to jettison unrealistic, extreme policies based on dogma and his failure in his leadership

7 Dec 2005 : Column 888

campaign explicitly to support the Tory policy of attempting to withdraw from the common fisheries policy, is the hon. Gentleman absolutely certain that his new leader supports that policy?

Mr. Paterson (then Shadow Minister for Fish): It is very interesting that the first time that the Minister jumps up, he avoids the technical details that would improve our marine environment and gets into tittle-tattle. I was delighted by both of our leadership candidates. As Anatole Kaletsky reported last week in The Times, my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (David Davis) said that he "would return national powers from EU level", which would have included fishing, and my hon. Friend the Member for Witney (Mr. Cameron) said that he "would reverse EU control of fisheries policy and withdraw from employment and social policies."

On numerous occasions during the campaign, my hon. Friend stressed employment and social policies—and my word, fishing certainly comes into that category. I can assure the Minister that we are all Cameronistas now.


William Norton:
Thanks for this info, which is very reassuring. I, too, had got the impression from somewhere (maybe EUReferendum) that DC was not going to stick to Howard's pledge on fisheries, and I was very disappointed about it. I am thrilled to be wrong on this. It is such an important matter, and the EU fisheries regime has been an absolute disaster. I was just reading in the Telegraph that the US has in recent years taken decisive action over its own fishing stock problems off the coast of New England, and is now reaping the benefits. We must do the same, before it is too late.

Blair should realize that the only way to get anything out of the EU is to provoke a crisis.

When there was a crisis over the referendum he missed his opportunity, "the people are blowing the trumpets around the walls of the city", what a load of tosh.

After proclaiming himself a reformer he has now conceeded the status quo - and then paid for the privilege.

Real EU reform was Blair's best chance for a real legacy and he let it go for the short term statesmanship of having a sucessful presidency.

As a pro-Euro tory I'm hugely disappointed that Blair has failed to take this opportunity to make the EU more relevant to the modern world by securing a smaller - fairer budget.

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