Livingstone accuses Boris of smearing Islam

A report in the Evening Standard reports an ugly exchange between Boris Johnson and Ken Livingstone during a radio debate earlier today.

Ken Livingstone has actively courted Muslims as Mayor* and suggested that Boris Johnson would not have been capable of the unifying, pro-Muslim message that he issued after the 7/7 bombings.

Referring to a piece in The Spectator authored by Mr Johnson shortly after the bombings that killed 52 people, Mayor Livingstone charged: "What you said, Boris, was Islam was the problem... And the Koran is inherently violent. I actually made certain that we were looking at individuals. You smeared an entire faith."

Boris responded: "Can I tell you what deep offence I take at that? I think you really traduce what I said.  My view is that Islam is a religion of peace and indeed I am very proud to say I have Muslim ancestors.  My great-grandfather knew the Koran off by heart, Ken Livingstone, and I really wish you would leave off these kinds of tactics, which demean this race and demean your office."

The Evening Standard quotes the words Boris Johnson used in The Spectator:

"The Islamicists last week horribly and irrefutably asserted the supreme importance of that faith, overriding all worldly considerations... Islam is the problem.  To any non-Muslim reader of the Koran, Islamophobia - fear of Islam - seems a natural reaction... However, he added: "Last week's bombs were placed neither by martyrs nor by soldiers, but by criminals. It was not war, but terrorism, and to say otherwise is a mistake and a surrender."

Team Boris expect the race to get very dirty in these final three week run-in.  They are expecting Ken Livingstone to throw the kitchen sink at Boris.  Earlier today Ken Livingstone attacked Boris' first election broadcast; saying that it would frighten foreign investors.  If Mr Livingstone keeps City Hall it will be via the low road.

* Gay rights campaigner and Green Party supporter Peter Tatchell has forgiven Mayor Livingstone for embracing anti-homosexual Muslim cleric Yusuf al-Qaradawi.  He has promised Red Ken to second preference him.

Comments

[GoBoJo!]

The Livingstone bullies (in their blue tracksuits?) will stop at nothing over the next three weeks. Last night outside Methodist Hall Westminster, one of them asked one of our campaigners if he was forging the ballot papers - as he seemed so sure that Boris will win. The smearing of Boris as "Islamophobic" is typical of Livingstone. He has smeared both Peter Tatchell and Professor Geoffrey Alderman as Islamophobic. In fact if you have NOT been smeared by Livingstone as Islamophobic, please raise your hands. It is a badge of honour to have been smeared by Livingstone as Islamophobic. Most people - most Muslims - are sick of the Livingstone bullies who think he somehow has a hereditary right to be Mayor. He does not. He is an embarrassment to all Londoners. But just three more weeks and he will be OUT!

Go BoJo!

[Sammy Finn]

Boris Johnson will be accused of everything in the next few weeks. This is going to get nasty.

[Michael Rutherford]

I find it very interesting how the left can get away with all forms of anti-semitism, but at the same time get out the guns when anything vaguely negative is even hinted at against Islam.

Complete misinterpretation of Boris' words.

[James Burdett]

Personally I think this is probably Ken's attempt at shoring up his vote. It indicates how weak a position he feels he is in. This is not the kind of thing a self-confident candidate tends to engage in. This is the sort of thing a candidate who is staring down a big defeat engages in.

[tottenham tory]

Re: Islam, Boris said:

"The Islamicists last week horribly and irrefutably asserted the supreme importance of that faith, overriding all worldly considerations."

"Islam is the problem.

"To any non-Muslim reader of the Koran, Islamophobia - fear of Islam - seems a natural reaction and, indeed, exactly what that text is intended to provoke."

(from The Spectator, July 16 2005)

[GoBoJo]

I suggest the Boris Campaign gets badges made "Smeared by Ken and Proud of It - What About You?"

[Iain Murray]

Here's the full text of Boris's comments about islam, in context. Someone who is calling for a reformation is certainly criticising a faith, but calling it a smear is, well, a smear:

"We--non-Muslims--cannot solve the problem; we cannot brainwash them out of their fundamentalist beliefs. The Islamicists last week horribly and irrefutably asserted the supreme importance of that faith, overriding all worldly considerations, and it will take a huge effort of courage and skill to win round the many thousands of British Muslims who are in a similar state of alienation, and to make them see that their faith must be compatible with British values and with loyalty to Britain. That means disposing of the first taboo, and accepting that the problem is Islam. Islam is the problem.

"To any non-Muslim reader of the Koran, Islamophobia--fear of Islam--seems a natural reaction, and, indeed, exactly what that text is intended to provoke. Judged purely on its scripture--to say nothing of what is preached in the mosques--it is the most viciously sectarian of all religions in its heartlessness towards unbelievers. As the killer of Theo Van Gogh told his victim's mother this week in a Dutch courtroom, he could not care for her, could not sympathise, because she was not a Muslim.

"The trouble with this disgusting arrogance and condescension is that it is widely supported in Koranic texts, and we look in vain for the enlightened Islamic teachers and preachers who will begin the process of reform. What is going on in these mosques and madrasas? When is someone going to get 18th century on Islam's mediaeval ass?

"It is time that we started to insist that the Muslim Council of Great Britain, and all the preachers in all the mosques, extremist or moderate, began to acculturate themselves more closely to what we think of as British values. We can't force it on them, but we should begin to demand change in a way that is both friendly and outspoken, and by way of a first gesture the entire Muslim clergy might announce, loud and clear, for the benefit of all Bradford-born chipshop boys, that there is no eternal blessedness for the suicide bombers, there are no 72 virgins, and that the whole thing is a con and a fraud upon impressionable minds. That might be a first step towards what could be called the re-Britannification of Britain."

[M]

For those who haven't read the more scholarly literature on this (Javaid Rehman is the best I have found), the fact is that the Koran, in its totality, is essentially a peaceful text (by the standards of its day). It preaches welfare and tolerance. It gave women rights long before they had them in the west and likewise to slaves. Its more violent passages should be read in the context of the times and in the context of the text surrounding it. I wouldn't expect a Christian to defend the Bible in its entirely either. Religions should be judged by their modern day practices.

The problem isn't the Koran. It is conservative clerics. Take polygamy. The Quran is actually against polygamy: “if you feel you will not deal justly between them, then marry only one…”. Gender neutral terms have been translated and interpreted as masculine, creating gender hierarchies that we in the west look down on and unequal rights for men and women. Some Islamic societies have adapted - there is now a doctrine of takhayyar (eclectic choice) which denotes selection of the most appealing and appropriate doctrine from the Islamic law schools.

But the fact is that Boris is right if you interpret his use of 'Koranic texts' as referring to the 'interpretations' of the Koran in the later centuries rather than the Koran itself. As I understand it, the problem in many Muslim societies is that there has been a continued insistence upon Taqlid (or 'imitation'). This goes against the translation is ‘Sharia’ which means ‘the road to the watering place’. So we do ourselves no service by being scared of criticising dominant strands of Islam. The fact is, many Muslims are seeking change. Pushing British values is one thing, but actually encouraging debate about how they might go about this from within their own religious understandings might be just as fruitful. Disliking much of 'Islam' as it is, is not racist, or anti-Muslim. Boris will not pussyfoot or pander to any religious group and this may well encourage progressive dialogue.

[Londonlx]

Looks like ken's gonna get more and more ridiculous the closer it gets.

Does anyone have some livingstone (mis)quotes I can stick on my website?
I think Boris should take the higher moral ground, but there's nothing to stop us fighting fire with fire!

[Patsy Sergeant]

GoBoJo @ 17.54 - I think that is a great idea - a badge saying "Smeared by Ken and Proud of it - What About You?". If not a badge perhaps posters?

[Graeme Archer]

That Livingstone engages in these ridiculous smears is, of course, highly appropriate: the man is a complete stain. If he were underwear, we would be talking boil-wash and pre-treatment with New Vanish (c).

It is going to be a deeply unpleasant three weeks. Let's just hope that it's unsuccessful. We need a Mayor who leads, not smears.

[Yet Another Anon]

I think Ken Livingstone probably will hang on, although with his third term being as a lame duck Mayor who is increasingly marginalised by his own party and who will almost certainly not be given a 4th chance to run.

Although Boris Johnson has perhaps managed to lift his efforts a bit rather and been somewhat more on the ball than seemed ever to be likely, I still think he was a peculiar choice for candidate and that actually given how close to extinction Dinosaur Ken is that actually this time really most ex-Conservative ministers as a candidate this time would have blasted him off the map by now.

There remains the possibility of Brian Paddick, Gerard Batten or Matt O'Connor emerging as a frontrunner as people perhaps get a bit fedup with both main candidates.

[Oberon Houston]

This is gonna be tight. I think, with the second preference Livingstone is just ahead?

There is a fallback position that the left use against the centre-right when they are losing an argument and its to cloud issues with diverting nonsense, spluttering hyperbole, gross exaggeration and offensive language. Unfortunately its quite often effective. Boris just needs to grind out a result now, less than three weeks now?

Expect things to get messy as Livingstone and the Labour party machine go into 'losing the arguement' mode.

[Tony Jenkins]

"Livingstone accuses Boris of smearing Islam," the Editor's sensible, impartial headline becomes Livingstone smears Boris seconds later among some of his more excitable supporters.

It's simply not acceptable for a candidate from any party in this election to say "Islam is the problem." He should apologise because this is wrong. Terrorism is the problem. Violent aggression is the problem wherever it occurs--in London or elsewhere. Contrary to what Boris said, people's faith is not the problem.

[Matthew]

That is surely wrong Tony Jenkins. Someone's faith can clearly be a problem. Just because someone has 'faith' in something does not mean we should accept it. Faith can take many forms, but in general people accept it means an acceptance of something without any evidence to support. So racists can claim 'faith' on their side to say that whites are better than blacks. At least controversial former Nobel prize winners share this view genetically speaking! (I do not think this, FYI). So, ultimately, whilst we should allow people who adhere to one of the major 'faiths' some leeway, there are objective limits to what we (I, certainly) am going to allow someone to get away with on the basis of 'faith'. So whilst one perhaps should not say 'Islam is the problem', it is entirely appropriate to say that certain interpretations of Islam are problematic (and likewise certain interpretations of Christianity, Judaism...). People's faith can and is a problem, frequently. I will not just accept people's views because they are based on faith.

[Tony Jenkins]

It's so insulting to the overwhelming majority of law abiding Muslims who live and work here to write what Boris wrote.

London is a place where racism should never be welcome. It is, however, a city where people of all faiths and none who are willing to respect one another should be welcome. People who aspire to be Mayor who think and say "Islam is the problem." don't understand that and don't deserve to win.

[Watervole]

Ken really is desperate isn't he - what will he fling next, newts?

[Son of Finchley]

I think we've got the answer to what he'll fling next. Here's the latest gutter politics from one of Ken's cronies.

I'm sure you all remember this guy Hopi Sen's performance on youtube. Well now he's youtubing away with the gall to claim Ken's opposed to suicide bombers on the same day that he was found with one of them as one of his outriders.

Makes me sick:

here's the link for the post We shouldn't let him get away with this kind of thing.

[John Bauer]

Dear Boris,

If you wish to ensure that you win on Thursday, just do this: check out the YouTube video, TRUTH: LIVINGSTONE STYLE, or read the Ken Livingstone exposé on the Home Page of the iamanaenglishman web site.

Red Ken is seen insisting that the 2007 murders of teenagers in London were being committed by "white kids" and the victims were "other white kids"!

He said this at the Rise: London United festival on 15 July 2007. To whit:

"IT’S A LOT OF WHITE KIDS STABBING OTHER WHITE KIDS!"

In the year to 15 July 2007, when Livingstone told this astounding lie, sixteen teenagers had been murdered in London.

Ten of the dead teenagers were black boys, three were black girls, one was mixed race and the other two dead children were white. At the time of Livingstone’s great lie, ALL OF THE KNOWN KILLERS AND THOSE SUSPECTED OF THE KILLINGS WERE BLACK.

Livingstone's casual dishonesty MUST be exposed for the anti-British racism that it is. If you are brave enough to go the politically incorrect route here, Boris, you will be a shoo-in.