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Tapestry

Left wing blogging is active on politicalbetting.com and comment is free - the Guardian comments section - is a place where the left expresses its opinions openly.

Left wing blogging overall seems to focus on attacking the ideas of others, rather than building ideas of their own.

The right wing mind starts with the positive viewpoint that all is well with the world and if we do the right things, the world will get better. The left seem to think that all is not well with the world, and unless they dismember and destroy what is being created, terrible injustices will result.

To a right winger, poverty needs to be dealt with effectively by building employment, supporting marriage, building incentives. The left think that poverty can be dealt with by destroying the privileges of wealth, by getting their money and giving it to the poor, and rebalancing family life in favour of single parenthood.

The problem for the left is that once their ideas are written down, they don't actually make sense, or work. As a result they prefer the spoken word, the tribally appealing slogan to a long conversation or any in depth analysis.

The appeal of left wing politics to the electorate grows in good times, and the appeal of the right wing of politics grows when the left has been managing the country long enough to mess it all up again.

If Cameron wins power he should stay on the right long enough to get the economy going and society working again. That will take two parliaments at least. And then unlike Thatcher who went further right the longer she lasted, he should move to the centre ground to preempt the revival of the destructiveness of the left wing.

John Coles

I just cannot follow your closing paragraph, Tapestry. You recommend that Mr Cameron "stay on the right long enough.....etc.etc"".
You are surely not suggesting that he is PRESENTLY on the right, or have I misunderstood your grammar?

Tapestry

Sorry John. I rambled on too long!

Cameron is on the right in that he believes in tax cuts once the economy is stable,in supporting marriage, and in his beliefe in localism and against centralisation...in policies that work and deliver better lives to ordinary people.

Left and right are not well defined these days are they!

Jonathan Sheppard

Peter - do you think the situation would dramatically change when the party gets into Government? Will the right wing blogosphere become like the blogs on the left, with the left actually raising their game because they will be in opposition and have more freedom to debate and say what they think?

dizzy

I think we're in danger of elevating blogs to a far greater importance than they actually have.

Windsor Tripehound

I seems quite obvious to me. Right leaning people tend to be more individualistic and articulate, and less likely to toe the party line.

The "left-leaning" blogs that I've read seem to be dominated by the old class-warriors spouting their usual guff

The Huntsman

One reason that the right's efforts are more articulate and interesting than those of the left is the right's exclusion from the principal Television and Radio media. Those on the left who might otherwise turn to blogging have a free run at getting their views heard because they dominate the BBC TV & Radio(not just in news and current affairs) and most TV news. Only in the print media does the right have a significant presence.

The right therefore has to exploit other media in order to counter this imbalance and ensure that as wide a range of our views as possible is disseminated.

Anyway, who cares if the left is slow to carve a niche on the web? Far better that we get in on the ground floor and exploit this new medium better and more than they do so as best to appeal to the new generation of web-wise voters that comes on stream every year. Let us make the web OUR platform and leave them with the dinosaur outlets.

Tony Sharp

I have got to agree with Dizzy here. Blogging is a way of communicating your thoughts, letting off steam and occasionally engaging with people who may leave comments.

Yes it is true that Iain, Tim and Sam and of course Guido, do often share information that influences the news cycle. But these are largely exceptions to the blogging rule.

The only way that would change is if large parts of the population decided to start using blogs as a way of getting their news. I cannot see that happening and the mainstream media will therefore retain its current position as relied upon news vehicle, even if it is not as trusted as it once was.

Tony Hannon

Tapestry, yes you did ramble on a bit and no - you're absolutely correct, the left wing / right wing distinction is not clear these days, not least because you've absolutely mauled it!

In what I accept are the broadest, loosest terms (and I will at least have the courtesy to speak respectfully of both), right wingers broadly believe the society will be improved if the needs of the individual are put first, left wingers put the society first. This, of course, gives rise to contradiction.

The issue of blogging and these posts on Labourhome and Conservativehome is becoming increasingly vexing. People are so quick, in my view, to demonstrate stupidity, disrespect and downright ignorance. Gems of thoughts and interesting opinion are hidden among the witterings of dilettantes.

Try this though. It's a very crude acid test. At the end of a working day - read two entire threads on the same issue. One from Telegraph.co.uk and one from 'Comment is free' on the Guardian website. Again broadly, both will have good comments and both will have the idiots. By far though, the greater number of idiots are on the Telegraph.

I very much doubt you'll agree with Tapestry about left blogging 'attacking ideas'. That, as a practice, is pretty much 50-50 spit!!

Also - as a parting shot, I can say this. Anyone who believes fully and without exception in either left wing or right wing politics is an idiot. While we have our George Galloways to suffer, you have your Enoch Powells. To subscribe fully to either destroys reasoned argument, neglects nuance and, in the case of blogging, makes for a very boring read!!!

David

I'm worried that blogs simply become a way for those who shout the loudest to have too much of a say. A boon to opponents in the mainstream press too.

They tend to be at their best where they inform and allow for debate; when they believe that they have some right to dictate policy, then it becomes a problem.

Peter Franklin

Jonathan Sheppard:

"Peter - do you think the situation would dramatically change when the party gets into Government? Will the right wing blogosphere become like the blogs on the left, with the left actually raising their game because they will be in opposition and have more freedom to debate and say what they think?"

Conservative Government would require a heavy defeat for Gordon Brown -- and consequently, I suppose, the end of his domination of the Labour Party. In the ensuing free-for-all, Labour bloggers would have a chance to make their mark. But will they?

Mr Tripehound says that "Right leaning people tend to be more individualistic and articulate, and less likely to toe the party line." This is true, though in America the Left does have a powerful presence in the blogosphere. Of course, the US Left is less collectivist in its outlook than the British Left.

Windsor Tripehound

"I'm worried that blogs simply become a way for those who shout the loudest to have too much of a say"

Not sure about that. Blogs are passive; you have to make a conscious effort to get to them. It's not compulsory to read any of them.

Simon Denis

Quite right, Huntsman, but I would go further - the blogosphere is the last refuge of the right. Most opinion outlets are left dominated now and not because of talent. It is easy to turn anything into a cartel in our right little, tight little island. I imagine that an actor or a broadcaster who admits to conservative opinions on more than a small percentage of the issues would rapidly find themselves blocked, sidelined and sacked.

On a more subtle note, the right is in essence more honest than the left, so it prefers to advertise its political messages openly. For this reason it continuously publishes essays, tracts and critiques. The blogosphere merely extends this already well established aspect of right wing activity.

The left, meanwhile, wraps its views up in plays and films and songs. This is bad art but effective propaganda because pink jingles and red sophisms come to form part of everyone's mental furniture. Even right wingers take a certain pleasure in the cant of the left precisely because as cant it is familiar. This being so, the left has taken control of the arts and it means to keep that control as long as it can. We might have the sword of reason, but they have the big guns of showbiz.

Reversing this looks impossible. However, if we can set up new artistic institutions of our own - new theatre companies, tv channels, film corporations - then we might stand more of a chance. Naturally, we would not blatantly propagandise; our aim in theatre, for example, should be to revive the bourgeois pleasures of polite comedy. We should retake for civil society those areas which have been colonised by the votaries of the red dawn.

jailhouselawyer

I think that certain Tory bloggers like Dizzy Thinks are a bad influence...

Richard

"The left seem to think that all is not well with the world, and unless they dismember and destroy what is being created, terrible injustices will result."

As someone on the Right I think that there is a lot wrong with the world due to the impact of the Left!

"I think that certain Tory bloggers like Dizzy Thinks are a bad influence..."

Why?

Matt Wright

The blogs still have a long way to go and have not matured. I believe there is actually a danger in the unaccountability of their nature. We need more accountability and direct engagement in democracy, not less. Time will tell,

Matt

Tapestry

Tony Hannon, is it discourteous to hold the strongly formed opinion that others are wrong, and to express it? Surely that is what blogs are for - saying what you really think, not what is acceptable to your employer, family, the neighbours but what you actually think. If it's discourteous not to be on the middle ground, and not to try to play down the middle then courtesy will need to take a back seat. Was I discourteous? Where?

Patsy Sergeant

I agree with The Huntsman too. I think that the success of the right of centre blogs and websites, is a direct result of years of being force-fed left-centre and left wing propaganda, 24/7, meaning not only in news programmes on the main media, but also in soaps and plays (on the BBC at least!). During all this time 'clear thinking' could perfectly well see the bias, and get very angry at it, but finding a way to put forward an alternative view, seemed almost impossible. I consider that what is available now definitely balances things out a bit, but of course the 'left' don't like it!

Maybe in the future, when perhaps having to adapt much more to the presence of terrorism in our midst (so that left-wing c..p on the subject, will be seen for what it is), then left-wing bias as it is now will become 'old-fashioned'.

Chris Heathcote

That picture doesnt look like you Peter!

Rachel Joyce

I was going to make the same points as the Huntsman but he made it first - if a voice is stifled, it finds another way of making itself heard - hence the right wing bloggers as a result of broadcast media exclusion.

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