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« Sky TV Debate | Main | Davis and Cameron promise to be friends of Israel »



Its a shame that even well paid newspaper people support style over policies, but then most sway in the wind anyway in terms of latest opinion polls than sticking to the hard job of making this country work?

Wat Tyler

Ed- as you say, a clean sweep for DC.

But of course, backing DC in our leadership contest is not the same as backing us Tories in the next Election.

And today's YouGov poll shows Brown-led Labour would still crush us, even under DC. And most of the media would- as we know- follow the expected winner.

Stardust is not enough. We're going to need distinctive appealing policies and the determination to sell them to the electorate.

It would be tragic to ape Blairism just as the wheels drop off (I'm sure there's one of those metaphor things in there somewhere).


The question is now that the audience can identify the difference between Stork Margarine and Butter; can it tell the difference between David Cameron and Butter ?

or must it wait for that melting sensation ?

John Coulson

What a disgrace. Following opinion polls and wanting to be seen toback a winner makes me sick. Who on earth is going to vote on the basis of a newspaper endorsement anyway. To say Davis has "never made it into the Premier League" is simply wrong. This is a politician who was a very powerful minister, ran the most powerful select committee and has been the most effective Shadow Cabinet minister for several years. He made one substandard conference speech and the result is this.

I hope Davis rejects Camerons offer of a job in the Shadow Cabinet and sits on the backbenches. From the backbenches he can criticise the awful mess Cameron will make of the job. RIP the Tory party.

malcolm thomas

There was a most interesting note written by Liam Fox on which has since disappeared (I can't find it again after 15 mins searching the site), explaining the changeover from a totemic approach to a more holistic approach to politics.

With the EU the totemic would be, for example, such as this - I'm against the EPP so I'm a bigger eurosceptic than him. It has the mentality of someone trapped and powerless making threats.

The holistic is different. All that matters is whether the thing under discussion is right or wrong. If it's wrong, sort it - no need to establish credentials and breast beat - or overclaim anything. It's the mentality of someone in powewr taking action.

It also showed that the rapprochment between Fox and Cameron is strong. Shame the piece has wandered off. Can anyone find it? It is part of the jigsaw which gives the key to understanding Cameron and Fox's politics.


I am disgusted by son much I have read on this website over the last couple of weeks since I caught on it was here.

Is this supposed to be a Tory website? Or is it infested with left wingers trying to undermine the Conservative Party? I do wonder.

If that is not the case then reading comments from such as'Barbara Villiers' and 'John Coulson's comment aove I c an see why

Barbara Villiers


You are so right and it really is a crying shame.


Liam Fox joined forces with Cameron because he believes (and is wrong about this) that the gay rumblings (as if we care) were put about by the Davis camp. Please don't think this is anything more than pique.


"I hope Davis rejects Camerons offer of a job in the Shadow Cabinet and sits on the backbenches. From the backbenches he can criticise the awful mess Cameron will make of the job. RIP the Tory party."

Posted by: John Coulson | 25 November 2005 at 10:12

Why would you want that? Davis is a great front bench performer and we would be stronger with him in a prominant position. He has made it clear that he will serve, do you not trust his judgement? Would you prefer to see a Brown government than a Tory one with Davis in a leading position?

I can see how you are dissapointed that your man has (almost certainly) lost, but to paint it as some sort of disaster when your candidate has made it clear he does not agree seems a bit over the top?


Sorry, something happened to my pc before I finished....

To continue...

I can see why we were once called the 'stupid Party' and for the first time I can understand the 'nasty party' comment of Theresa May.

Some of you writing here clearly dont want the Conservative Party to win again and exemplify why we have lost 3 elections in a row.

You get involved in idiotic hair splitting, too concerned about personal agendas and some non-existent ideolical purity.

Get real.... The public are not interested in all that rubbish, it leaves them cold.

Please remove heads from posteriors, take a deep breath of fresh air and look around outside. See what the rest of the world are saying, take note and behave accordingly.

Think not about what you want from the Conservative Party but what these electorate want and need to see. Look at who and what will attract the floating voter, the young, the lost generation, those who deserted us for the LibDems and Labour. Find a solution to that...

As I see it Cameron is who will restore us to power and who talks to those we had lost.


We've had a lot of polling on the two contenders in relation to Labour. I'd be interested to see how Cameron's leadership will reduce Lib Dem support.

I can envisage Lib Dem support moving back to a modern, moderate Conservative Party, which will increase Lib Dem frustration with the increasingly hopeless Kennedy and could even lead to the new breed of right leaning Lib Dems, defecting to us.


This is a very typical English pessimism.

Looking on the brighter side, maybe Cameron will communicate a strong message that could return people to the Conservative party. Possibly, he will spend the next few years working on an approach that could actually explain to people why they should vote Conservative, rather than the message of the last two elections which seemed to consist of saving the pound and immigration.

With Cameron, we are dealing with a bit of a gamble. My biggest boubt is that if his team can't be bothered to reply to queries from their web site, it is either incompotence or arrogance. Hopefully, this doubt will be proved wrong.

James Hellyer

It is interesting how Cameron seems to be getting support while his supporters sound like they have reservations. Just as the YouGov polls showed his supporters think he's a lightweight, these endorsements seem to rue his fuzziness on issues of policy and principle.

If he is elected, Cameron had better deliver poll resulys quickly, because a leadership elected on the conviction that a leader can do that, could quickly founder if those hopes were disappointed.

Barbara Villiers

And pigs will fly!

peter wilkin

re: nicholas boys smith comments on front page.
if boys smith speaks for the future of the conservative party then they will never get elected. try reading Lord Gilmour's 'whatever happened to the Conservative Part' for some clues as to where it has gone wrong. as for Cameron Vs Davis, it's a bit like Home Vs Duncan Smith isnt it?

Michael McGowan

If Cameron wins, it would be absurd for David Davis to sulk on the backbenches like Ken Clarke and he would lose a lot of credibility if he did so, as he well knows. It would of course be up to Cameron to offer him a job where his considerable talents can be deployed effectively.....not least in deflecting the shellfire which Labour will target on whoever becomes leader.

Midnight Blue


Good friends as we are, I think you're way out on this one. I agree that DD not being in the premier league is a criticism without foundation, but RIP the Tory party is OTT pessimism, the closest we came to that was in 2003 when we were a national laughing stock and people were waiting for IDS to be chucked out.

I think your analysis is wrong, nobody made these doomsday claims when IDS was elected, even though he was never going to make it to no 10. DC has a far better chance of putting this party back to government, and encouraging his rival to undermine him if he wins (as I assume you're doing) shows very little understanding of what caused the 2003 fiasco in the first place.

Samuel Coates

If you lot reflect the party, I'd rather have an optimistic, idealistic party in government than a pessmistic, purely pragmatic one. Not that there is one!

Spence Morris

Is Barbara Villers for real? Surely that persona is a complete piss-take?

Jack Stone

Neither Gordon Brown or David Cameroon are leaders of there respective parties yet so its rather unwise I think to take too much notice of polls about how thay would do against one another at the next election which is still four years away, a lifetime in political terms.
I have to say I just can`t understand the attitude of Davis supporters. I get the impression from the increasingly hysterical nonsense we are getting from them that they actually would like to see David Cameron be a failure as leader.
I have never really understood why there is so much hatred of DC by some on this site but I have started to think that behind it all is not deep political differances but plain old inverted snobbery.Put simply they just don`t like him because his rich!
If David Cameron is elected leader it will be the best thing that as happened to the party since it won the 1992 election and I am certain he will go on and beat Gordon Brown or anyone else Labour may put up against him at the next election.
Lets start looking forward to and working for victory not hoping for defeat.

Barbara Villiers

No Spence I'm not a piss take - are you?

Mark Fulford

John and Babs, please credit your fellow members with more intelligence than to vote against David Davis on the basis of one poor speech. I am voting for David Cameron because he has consistently communicated better and, while clearly being Conservative, he is able to show people outside the party that he understands what matters to them. He has the support of most MPs and, I believe, the best chance of winning the next election.

I understand the disappointment that Davis supporters will be feeling - I've felt it at every leadership race since John Major was knifed.

Barbara Villiers


I am sorry but I couldn't agree with you less. You are entitled to your opinion. I just don't like the idea of turning into the Lib Dems - and I don't like the way he communicates - a matter of taste, I know but there it is.

Spence Morris

No, and I am not as naive as some I could mention...


.Put simply they just don`t like him because his rich!

Jack Stone manages to present his case in an incoherent fashion; either he mis-spells everything or simply does not bother to finish sentences. We have a Prime Minister who has no knowledge of verbs, so perhaps Jack is one of the Blairites on the move.

Is Cameron rich ? Somehow I think the previous Member for Witney was richer. Simply put Cameron has zero experience and the Conservative Party is taking a big punt on a horse with no form. Maybe he can astound us all, but that is the very least he is obliged to do. As the Americans say, David Cameron is right behind the 8-ball.

Mark Fulford

Turning into Lib Dems? Crikey, what jaundiced perversion.

And Rick, you're right, somehow you think.

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