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« Doreen Davis: "Days go by and we don't speak on the phone" | Main | Hustings Report (4): York »

Comments

Jack Stone

I agree that I think David Davis does now believe he cannot win. If for the sake of argument he did how long is he going to last when 111 of the party`s 198 MP`s are against him.He would be holed below the water line before he even started.

Editor

Just because 111 are for DC does not mean they're against DD, Jack... they merely prefer DC. Right?

Selsdon Man

This report will make depressing reading for DD supporters. Lateness and cancelling charity visits hurts our image as a professional organisation and caring party. These visits are very important.

The activists are looking for someone who will modernise the party's grassroots campaigning, not just its image and policies.

DD is losing ground and can only blame himself and his team.

Wat Tyler

Jack- I'm guessing you must be Jack Stone from Southend, or Jack Stone from the Maidstone Youth Forum, or possibly both. But I'm still not 100% convinced you're not a LibDem agent provocateur.

See, if you really do support DC, then- given that he seems to be heading for victory- you should be saying things that stress the need for party unity.

Going on about how DD will be holed below the waterline if he wins is just a wind-up. It says DC's supporters will not accept the democratic outcome unless they win. And if that's the case...

 Ted

Reading this report confirms why I moved away from DD - tried to explain it to Barbara Villiers; my growing impression since May has been that DD doesn't seem to have the oomph, there's unpreparedness, lateness, some sort of lack of willingness to commit fully. Just to see if it was just me I put David Davis Laziness into google - sure enough results turned up.

The reason this worries me is that it's going to be a hard job for the next 4 years - needs passion, full on committment and I just don't see it from DD. He could manage OK with a strong "kitchen" cabinet supporting him but his choice of campaign team doesn't fill one with confidence.

 Ted

Just re-read my posting - looks like I'm saying DD is lazy - thats not it; perhaps it's that he enjoys the bunfights, commits, is energetic, but isn't up to the boring slog in between. A good general for the battles but not for the war?

Selsdon Man

I just cannot understand it, Ted.

stephan shakespeare

Dominic (and anyone else who has been at a hustings): how many people do you think were at the meeting? From the people you spoke to, do you think most of them were already supporting one candidate or another, or had most of them already made up their minds? Did the people there represent mainly activists you had seen around locally, or members you hadn't seen before?

 Ted

Sorry Selsdon - trying to think through what it was that made me, a core voter, turn against DD - it isn't his policies so it must be something about his approach.


Barbara Villiers

Maybe, Ted, you are taken in by the hype. If people are impressed by mints and packaging then it doesn't say much for their own core beliefs. Or for Conservatives.

Jack Stone

I think DD supporters are the last people to lecture about not accepting the democratic will when there man and those around him have briefed and conspired against every leader since John Major.
We of course need party unity after December 6th but its now clear that will be much easier with David Cameron as leader than DD.
Its clear from the things that have been said on this site over the last few weeks that its going to be far harder to get DD supporters to be loyal than those who support Cameron.

Al G

Jack, could we have some evidence of Davis briefing against people? Or shall we fight rumour with rumour? In which case... (rubs hands and licks lips)

 Ted

Barbara - not the hype , DD lost me in June to August, then it was Liam Fox I preferred - by the conference I was really worried it was going to be DD & Clarke. Now I'm a fully signed up DC supporter - answering "the come with me" invitation to victory or disaster ( I know which you think it'll be).
Annoyed a labour supporting friend (ex BBC) by saying I couldn't stand the thought of a Labour PM in 2012 - Diamond Jubilee (God willing) and Olympics, what a year! So it had better be victory!

Oberon Houston

Dominic, great report.

As far as electability (by the electorate) goes, Davis is a failure. Despite my high regard for Hague, he is, also, a failure. These guys are detatched from voters around the -Country-.

Cameron instinctively knows that, to win, we must not only have the right policy, but entwine it with ordinary people, show them WHY they...and their friends, family, will be better off, healthier, happier, whatever.

Conservatives have forgotten that Politics is not about being right, but being believed to be right.

David Davies

I was at Newcastle today, I have too say I do not agree with all that has been said by Dominic.

It should be said that I support DD, I will try to put that to one side.

DC did not not answer a question regarding the "barnett formula", instead he turned his answer to an "English only votes in the house" (good to see he is picking up on DDs policy). DD said it would be changed (and rightly so).

Dominic mentioned that Cameron’s speech also reflected the momentum of his campaign, with 111 MPs backing him, along with a large proportion of the Shadow Cabinet on top of the weekend’s endorsement from William Hague, and boy did he do this to death. The audience it would be fair to say was those in the twilight years and Tebbits endorsement of Davis would have carried much more sway, it was never mentioned.

At the end of the day it is different approaches, my opinion is DC is image led, DD is policy led. Both candidates performed well, DC being more substantial in some of his answers (this is a good thing), and as Dominic has said, DD more charismatic.

One last point, DD in no way looked as though he was going to lose, DD has proved throughout his life that he is a fighter, only a fool would think he is out of it.

On some other comments, both men would unite the party and whoever does win should have our backing.

Sean Fear


Actually Jack, Davis made a lot of enemies by his activities as a whip *on behalf of* John Major.

I regret to say that I have no reason to believe that David Cameron will be any better at motivating the public at large than David Davis would be - and most polling evidence bears this out.

However, Labour are on the skids, so I suspect whoever wins (and it looks as though it will be Cameron) should find the next four years quite enjoyable ones.

petersmith

"Conservatives have forgotten that Politics is not about being right, but being believed to be right."

Yip, that sounds like an authentic Cameron supporter. And what is government about? Have you forgotten that?

Richard Carey

"Maybe, Ted, you are taken in by the hype. If people are impressed by mints and packaging then it doesn't say much for their own core beliefs. Or for Conservatives."

Barbara, it might have escaped your notice, but as this is a Party leadership election both men are Conservatives. Perhaps we should expect little difference in "core" beliefs?

And although you brand it "packaging", how we campaign *does* make a difference. In far too many parts of the country at the moment, we have very few to no elected representatives in a position to show people how the Conservative would govern. In these areas, all people have to judge us on is how we run our own affairs and how we campaign, mandating that in both areas we show the utmost professionalism.

Oberon Houston

Okay "petersmith", lets take the other view, "Politics is about being right, but nobody believing you are right."

Mmm... that doesn't work.

You must be a Davis supporter.

Richard Carey

"Conservatives have forgotten that Politics is not about being right, but being believed to be right."

"Yip, that sounds like an authentic Cameron supporter. And what is government about? Have you forgotten that?"

Well, I don't like the sound of the second one of these quotes - one day, one of these men is going to win this leadership contest, and then we're all going to have to get along. Oberon's posts are always thoughtful and substantive, and deserve a similar quality in reply.

A detailed plan for Government is vital in the run up to an election, but getting there often requires different skills to being there. I'm not saying that the two skill sets are mutually exclusive by any means - the current Government being a good example of what happens when the urgent is allowed to crowd out the important - but that actualy appearing electable shouldn't be written about at times as though it were some kind of great evil!

Perhaps that would be a step forward in itself...

And I'm going to modify one of those quotes from above to be more accurate:

"Conservatives have forgotten that Politics is not *just* about being right, but being believed to be right *as well*."

petersmith

"Conservatives have forgotten that Politics is not *just* about being right, but being believed to be right *as well*."

That's very different. We can all agree on that.

I still ask: why is being right so unimportant that you were prepared to dismiss it?

Searcher

Are you the stephan shakespeare of YouGov?

petersmith

"Oberon's posts are always thoughtful and substantive, and deserve a similar quality in reply."

But you see, Richard Carey, I don't think that post was thoughtful or substantive. I'm getting mighty irritated of being told by Cameron supporters without any evidence at all that their man is so attractive to the big world out there. Maybe what you think is thoughtful and substantive sounds thoughtless and insubstantial to me. How about that?

John Ashworth

Just come back from the York meeting. Unfortunately neither candidate had a clue on how the EU works, and were making promises to take powers back from the EU without knowing how.
Nothing has changed in 33 years, and the omens are not good when a future leader has no idea how we are governed.

Oberon Houston

John, thats easy for you to say, but not them.

Look, Im trying (trying) to higlight is that we can "policy" away amongst ourselves as much as we want, and it's all good, but at the end of the day we need to sell it. Sell it to voters. Voters that have not bought our ideas for three elections,

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