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Absolutely agree with Warsi, this Labour blaming us for the BNP is ridiculous. I blogged about this very issue about an hour ago here: http://www.workingclasstory.com/2009/05/kinnock-is-twit.html

MacShane blaming what is, essentially, a europhile Tory EU policy on the rise of the BNP is beyond desperate, even for New Labour.

MacShane has also, like so many others seem to be, got it catastrophically wrong in writing UKIP off in such a way.

Read the rest of the comments. The stupid moron gets a towelling like none other. Well like all the Labour bloggers when they peek over the parapet!

This was our Sunday morning conversation! It's plain that every Labour spokesperson is going to attempt to do two things: try to motivate their base, by waving the bnp in every interview, and to blame us for their rise. Of course their rise is foursquare to do with two Labour policies: their decision to massively increase immigration, and to change the voting system for euro elections. This last ironic point would be amusing were the likely outcome not so.

Labour are simply resorting to ever more desperate spin and smear. they have nothing else left, they are empty and finished and they are hollowing out our once great country.

Isn't shoe horning someone like Warsi into the lords purely on the basis of her religion and ethnicity actually part of the reason why the BNP are doing so well?

"It's plain that every Labour spokesperson is going to attempt to do two things: try to motivate their base, by waving the bnp in every interview"

It's their base who are voting BNP...

Warsi's arrogance masks any serious points she may be making, and shows why she should have no place in a Conservative Cabinet.

"I know more than anybody else what it's like to campaign against the BNP." is the root of this arrogance, a conceit that she is campaigner in chief rather than 'as much as anybody else" against the BNP. I have found myself chased by BNP supporters from delivering cross-party anti-BNP leaflets, in areas where the BNP have gone on to win, and gone on to lose.

The BNP are on the rise everywhere, a vote for them is a vote against Labour and so it is as much the fault of Warsi and the Tories that they are gaining votes, when the Tories should be those hoovering up disaffected Labour voters. Warsi is herself blaming Labour for the Tories not picking up the vote. Arrogant and hypocritical.

Not sure we are right to blame 'Labour'.Even some Labour MPs regard McShane as a bit of a joke, both in his political analysis and his honesty Mcshane sets the bar very low indeed.
The blame for the rise of the BNP is 1st Labour's immigration policy, 2nd Labour's immigration policy and 3rd Labour's immigration policy.
PS Are we really interested in the views of 'Independence Home'? Personally I'm getting quite bored with having to read through commercials for UKIP whatever the subject of the thread.

look what happened to Margaret Hodge when she spoke out about the BNP

Incidentally Rentoul does not seem to haver got his electoral facts right.Then percentage required to elect an MEP depends on the relative performance of the othe parties under the D'Hondt system. However Rentoul's figures are far too high. Under 10% will elect an MEP in some regions.

@Malcolm,

I've banned two UKIP posters in the last 24 hours (one making libellous remarks) and am ready to do so again. On this occasion, however, I think IndependenceHome was just about on topic. I'm keeping an eye on it though.

MacShane is an odious man who, for reasons never explained, hides his Polish background. Those of us that remember the aftermath of WW11 will always have a special place in our hearts for Poles generally and their heroic efforts in the defence of Europe. But not MacShane.

What MacShane and Labour generally seek to obfuscate is that their open door policy has led to enormous resentment. Resentment that is felt by many of their core/target supporters. Labour (New or Old) only has itself to blame for the rise of the (hard left wing) BNP.

Had Labour concentrated on an effective education system (rather than grade inflation, proper training for work and a benefit system that rewards idleness) it would not have been possible for so many non UK citizens to find work here.

My message to Denis MacShane is - you created this mess do not blame us. Hope you read this Denis!

'cross party anti BNP leaflets', says it all really.
A closed shop one party state, and you wonder why people look elsewhere

Macshane really is an idiot and believes in brainwashing the electorate. He think if we, they and the Lib Dems all praise the EU, the whole Country will believe in it.

The rise of the BNP is down to Labour's broken promises to its core support and its open door Immigration policy. Simple as.

A failed minister becomes a desperate publicity seeker

What you chatting bout Civil? Your argument is dijointed and flawed.

Warsi is dead on with what she's saying. It's not our fault that a sizeable chunk of Labours core vote is going BNP, It's easier to blame us than admit that the working class aren't a liberal, pro-European, politically correct, immigration loving, climate change worrying, guardian reading, Harriet Harman championing people.

Labour have lost their core vote by not having the debate with them and shutting them down when they did try to speak, the BNP are the only ones who are engaging with the white working class.

It's all very well for people like Civil to say it's our fault for not picking up their votes, but to be bloody honest, many of the things these people want we can't promise to give them. They don't want Conservative solutions, then don't want to debate, the are frustrated and angry at their environment caused by Labour and the BNP are offering them the policies that match their anger. We can offer Conservative solutions on how we can help deal with the damage wrought upon their communities, but a quick fix such as out of Europe, no more immigrants and packing the "darkies" all back off home? Not going to happen, because it's wrong!

There are better ways to help them than speak the rhetoric of racial hate that can easily create an environment where bad people will do bad things.

It Labour fault for losing control of our borders, it's their fault for not listeing to the will of the people, it's their fault for the problems and frankly destruction they have wrought by forcing communities to shatter up racial lines with their open arms approach and not controlling the situtation.

There is good immigration and bad, but when you have whole communities that have been broken up and been replaced by ghettos there is going to be anger, hate and violence.

I hope Cameron and the party have a plan, This is a small finite sized island. There is a limit to how many people we can take, at some point we'll have to say "Sorry we're full, try France?"

The BNP polled 5,000 votes in Dewsbury in 2005, not 6,000.

Eh," British jobs for British workers ", who said that ?

Am I right in thinking that David Cameron's Tories have just got into bed with some pretty nasty far right groups in Europe?

Also I was quite shocked, in fact quite disgusted that the Tories in Europe have just voted against making rape in marriage a European wide offence.

Disgusted?

I think it's disgusting that people in other countries can mandate what criminal offences we have in our own country.

And that's quite beside the facts of the matter, which you've doubtless distorted as I can't find any report of this anywhere.

Pathetic. If MacShane wants to find the causes for the rise of the BNP, perhaps he should look at:

- Labour's open door immigration policy.
- "British jobs for British workers" lie.
- Labour Local Authorities serving only Halal meat in schools.
- Taxpayers' money given to fraudulent race-based "community groups"
- Labour councils banning St George's Day.
- No Lisbon referendum.
- MPs with their hands in the till stealing from working people who pay their wages.
- Government leaflets (most of them on how to claim benefits) in 20 languages.
- NHS open to the whole world.
- Labour welfare policies trapping working class people on benefits, where they're locked in a fight for resources with the poorest of immigrants.

I could go on, but judging by the frequency of the phrase "another poor result for the National Front" on the 79 re-run earlier, it would seem that the NF/BNP subside under the Tories and prosper under Labour. What do you say to that, Macca?

This is patently ridiculous. The BNP draws most of its support off from Labour, just as UKIP does from the Tories.

Apologies to Tim if he regards our comments as borderline unacceptable - we are posting purely to give an independent UKIP view on ConHome topics, not to spam. Will be careful to stay more on topic in the future. After all, this site was the inspiration for our own!

The rise of the BNP is solely down to the fact that left of centre mainstream politicians for a decade or more, until Blunket et al, labelled even the most mild mannered comment on immigration as "racist".

I can recall watching Question Time week after week and it was a taboo. By not being allowed to make legitimate non racist comments about a failing immigration policy opened the door to the BNP.

Look back at William Hague's time as leader and see what trouble he and party spokesmen got into when saying immigration was too high. Hodge, Blunkett and other leading labour figures have gone much further in their language unchallenged, in recent times, but it is now too late.

Calling someone a racist for believeing that immigration is too high, is a kind of smear and kills debate stone dead. It is only in such an atmosphere that the BNP been able to find a vacuum to fill.

Labour's open border policies and their ridiculous rules on welfare and allocating social housing have given the BNP powerful campaigning weapons.

"THEY" get all the houses. "THEY" get all the jobs, "THEY" get all the money.

For a party so exercised by "equality", Labour have set the BNP up with a perfect "Them and Us" context against which to campaign.

And for your benefit, Joshuawahwah, rape in marriage is already an offence in the UK, though rarely prosecuted under Labour's governance for fear of giving offence to those communities which condone it, out of their misguided multi-cultural PC dominated mind-set.

As John Broughton has indicated in his post.

He (Mac Shane) was born as Denis Matyjaszek, to an Irish mother and her Polish husband who had fought in the Second World War and remained in exile after it.

John Moss. I never said it wasn't an offence in this country. It became so after R v R. I said it was voted against by David Cameron's Tories to make it so in the rest of Europe. As well as this they also voted against the abolition of female genital mutilation or honor crimes.

We all know that things are going to get ever more sleazy from this ..... government before the next GE, but this piece of spin is more like a Whitehall FARCE than anything else.

However, and I would like to mention Malcolm Dunn's comment @ 20.29 in this part, we need to remember that this sort of farcical 1997-type spin is NOT directed at us - that is CH members, or Conservative voters, this sort of CRAP is directed at that quite large group of political innocents, who believe all the nasty things said about Mrs. Thatcher - lock, stock and barrel; who know zilch about the EU, and not much in detail about any political party, AND they can be found in lots of layers of society.

Mr. McShane knows this very well indeed as do the spinning machine. They wouldn't waste ten minutes on the likes of us - I mean trying to influence us!

They must be getting very desperate about the growth of the BNP and THEY ONLY HAVE THEMSELVES TO BLAME! Tough titty. You should have got to grips with immigration when you could have done - NOW it is too late!

McShane is talking rubbish (but what is new?)!

Over 30 years ago under the last Labour government to balls up the economy and cause widespread social discord we had the National Front.

Today we have the BNP.

It is always under a Labour government with its pandering to every latest craze and fashionable cause that the far left (the BNP is Socialist) gets anywhere.

Perhaps McShane and others cannot face the truth that despite the fine words and good intentions they have let develop a political climate in which such parties can thrive.

BNP voters are rarely ex-Conservative voters, they are more often than not ex-Labour voters.

When times are good and the sun is shining, these core Labour voters, vote Labour, but when times are tough and jobs are lost, these very same Labour voters (International Socialists) have a tendency to turn tail and vote BNP (National Socialist), same brush, different paint.

It happened in the thirties, again in the seventies so why not now in a new century?

Civil @ 20:29 - "The BNP are on the rise everywhere, a vote for them is a vote against Labour and so it is as much the fault of Warsi and the Tories that they are gaining votes, when the Tories should be those hoovering up disaffected Labour voters."

Pray tell, Civil, why would the Conservatives be hoovering up the votes of national socialists? Disaffected Labour voters who think big government and more state control is the answer to everything are flocking to the BNP because that is what the BNP believes too.

As the BNP has played down its race-driven policies so it is that mainly Labour voters find it possible to turn a blind eye to them and transfer their vote to Griffin's little toy.

MacShane's comments are no surprise. This is the man who was on record as begging the EU structures to stop telling the truth about the impact of the Lisbon Treaty because British people would vote against it. Trying to shift the blame for the BNP's recent progress on the Conservatives is par for the course for a man whose currency is dishonesty and spin.

The tabloids and those who would have us out of Europe repeat the lies about Migrant workers getting immediate benefits. As we all know every migrant workers has on payment of £95 fee to sign up to the Workers' Registration scheme. Only after 12 months are they able to draw UK benefits.Stop the lies that build racial hatred and BNP votes.

This article follows Hain's one in similar vein (though not directly blaming the Tories) in Saturday's Guardian. In case you didn't see it he got 718 very forthright comments, almost 100% against - a really good kicking for someone who so richly deserves it.
If only the BBC would start referring to the BNP more accurately as a "far left" party, then perhaps Labour supporters would get a better perspective on the matter.

They have to wait 12 months for child support free medical care etc, do they?

@21:53 Colin B said

'BNP voters are rarely ex-Conservative voters, they are more often than not ex-Labour voters.'

However, according to this post on the 24th April...


Steve Foley said...

'BNP taking votes from Tory in Erewash, now that is worrying as it let Labour actually GAIN a seat from us! Reply 24 April 2009 at 10:13'

In case you were wondering whether Nick Griffin’s modern new internet-friendly party had really changed, don’t forget the white supremacist principles that underpin their commitment to somehow chucking out everyone except the “indigenous people”.

“The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948.” (BNP Statement of Principles – www.bnp.org.uk).

Having watched the excellent Warsi on a number of occaisions on the box I once again have little to disagree with her on this particular issue.

Labour is an empty shell that is showing us all the desperation of their desire to rule an aspirational country with threats of extremism being allowed in if we do not comply with their set of rules.

The smokescreens are becoming translucent boys, you had better get used to the place you belong-opposition.

Incidentally Joshuwahwah, do you claim benefits at all?

I stand by that. Looking at that result made it obvious where the votes came from and went.

I feel some of my fellow Conservatives are whistling in the dark by trying to make the BNP out to be a "left wing" party and saying (hoping?) that they will take more votes from Labour than from the Tories. To this who only use the narrow Economic aspects to designate "Left or Right" the BNP may be considered to be Left, they are not Laissez Faire Libertarians, but on the Social policies they are well to the Right and it is on these that people who normally vote Conservative will judge them and may defect. We Tories must not treat the BNP lightly or look to them to save our bacon by taking votes from Labour more than ourselves.

Your headline misses the point and is in no way justified by the weak bit of MacShane quoted.

Far more important is this.

Denis MacShane always dissembles, speaks less than the truth, tells lies by omission and commission. This he does knowingly and deliberately.

He is a disgrace to British public life.

Bill: "Denis MacShane always dissembles, speaks less than the truth, tells lies by omission and commission. This he does knowingly and deliberately.

He is a disgrace to British public life."

Exactly. Well said and worth repeating.

Colin B asserts that ”BNP voters are rarely ex-Conservative voters, they are more often than not ex-Labour voters,” though I’d like to see his evidence for this. I mean, when Tony Sharp says, “Disaffected Labour voters who think big government and more state control is the answer to everything are flocking to the BNP because that is what the BNP believes too,” what instantly comes to mind is that notwithstanding their recourse to traditional Tory mantras about small government and less State control, in practice Conservative administrations differ remarkably little from Labour in these matters. To be blunt the State, its size, and the degree of its control, exist on a depressingly vast scale no matter which of the two major parties is in power. You kid yourselves, and try to kid others, that the situation is otherwise; but you are disingenuous, or you tell lies.
I was struck by Warsi’s frankness when she wrote, ”Most people who vote for the BNP aren't racist. I accept that they feel so frustrated by the sort of politics they see today that they feel the only way to be heard is to vote for a racist party. They would never want to have them in power. It's their way of giving the other parties a kick up the backside.” I think this is spot on – and it contradicts directly what many Tory diehards here insist about anyone who suggests voting BNP; that is, they get rather hysterical in their denunciation of such suggestions to a degree which implies, variously, guilt, concern, worry they might lose votes, worry that the Tories just haven’t had the moral courage to get it right on e.g. immigration.

Oh, and in the same blimmin' edition of the same blimmin' newspaper, Neil Kinnock (no less) seems to give the lie to McShane's ridiculous spin:

"In order to maintain Labour advances like Surestart and investment in health and education we have all got to get behind Gordon," he said. "We need to present a united front and not keep in-fighting which will hand victories to the BNP. Discussions of leadership challenges are ludicrous and damaging."

Well, who'd have thought!

What do make of that, Denis?

*What do you make of that, Denis?

I find myself in the unaccustomed position of agreeing with Steve Foley. "We Tories must not treat the BNP lightly or look to them to save our bacon by taking votes from Labour more than ourselves."
Damn right. You're going to lose a lot of votes to the BNP, no matter what excuses and equivocations you make, or what degree of sophistry you indulge yourselves in while trying to position the BNP within your archaic political filing system...
Forget about Left & Right - who gives a toss anyway. There are just authoritarians, which includes Leftists and a great many Conservatives, and on the other side libertarians - people who like and trust people, want them to be free to live their lives, and who decline to give politicians and governments - and political parties - the benefit of the doubt.

Many British Asians see a society that hardly inspires them to integrate. Indeed, they see aspects of modern Britain which are a threat to the values they hold dear - values which we should all hold dear. Asian families and communities are incredibly strong and cohesive, and have a sense of civic responsibility which puts the rest of us to shame. Not for the first time, I found myself thinking that it is mainstream Britain which needs to integrate more with the British Asian way of life, not the other way around. David Cameron
o The Observer, Sunday 13 May 2007

Politics does indeed make strange bedfellows, Malcolm Stevas. I too feel that the old "Left-Right" model is out of date. I for example am to the moderate Left (Keynesian) Economically but Hard Right on most Social Issues and I am definitely NOT a Libertarian as I believe that there are times and circumstances where Government must intervene against for example "The Market" for the Greater Good of the Greater Number or for the sake of The Nation.

--------------------------------------------

I cannot find words that would be allowed on this Forum to encapsulate my utter contempt for Denis Mac Shane as being just about the worst of the current crop of Labour MPs, and I dislike quite a few of them I can assure you. Even many of his own Party hold him in low esteem. Alas he has a very safe seat in Rotherham so we will be stuck with him for a while, hopefully in Opposition within the next 13 months.

I am amused that Macshane has chosen today, the Brown has brought up Britishness again to mention this subject!

http://delivernothinglabourparty.blogspot.com/

Sorry should say:

I am amused that Macshane has chosen today, the day Brown has brought up Britishness again to mention this subject! Brown has an article in the daily mail published just hours before the Macshane outburst!

http://delivernothinglabourparty.blogspot.com/


"I said it was voted against by David Cameron's Tories to make it so in the rest of Europe."

Shouldn't such matters be decided by a nation state, not the european comission.


"As well as this they also voted against the abolition of female genital mutilation"

Once again, this should be decided by an elected national parliament, not the european commission. I don't see many people lining up to outlaw 'male genital mutilation'.

Cameron and the modernisers must take some of the blame. The modernisation agenda has hidden away the EU and immigration as main issues so we can win the election. A lot of people I speak to simply don't trust Cameron on the EU and immigration. There are so many flaws in the modernisation plan. The modernisers live in a liberal rich man's bubble.

Apart from the Nazi-ish racism, the BNP have elements in what they present to the world that are what British people are desperate for. A clear and obvious immigration policy and a firm commitment to get us out of the EU. When people vote BNP they know what they're going to get.

I'm definitely voting Conservative but honestly I'm not sure what we're going to get. A referendum on Lisbon is good, yet it's not a firm commitment to get us out of the EU. For us the future is uncertain and voting Conservative is just having blind faith in people who could turn out to be utter con men and who let us down completely. The BNP have the guts to say what they're going to do, and real people show respect for that by voting for them.

Coming home by National Express bus yesterday I was told that I must wear a seatbelt by European law. It's like we're not a country any more but a state in Europe. I don't want that, so I want to vote for a party that clearly doesn't want that either, because that's the whole point of having a vote.

The moment a non-racist traditionally conservative and patriotic *British* party (for example British Democrats) or whatever is created is the moment the modernising Conservatives will be in big trouble. British is an important word to the electorate, it's a magical vote winner because ingrained in that word is a commitment to take us out of the EU, to be tough on immigration, and a clear message that the union will continue.

Denis McShane is well out of order. Large sections of the Labour vote, start voting BNP. And its the Conservatives fault?

You people simply have no idea of what is going on :-

The People behind the EU / NWO want us under the Dual Jackboot of a Police state and Sharia Law.

This is what Concerns your average working class Brit, at least they understand what is going on.

Can the Conservatives solve
The Demographics Problem

You are entitled to your opinion Malcolm Stevas, but my comments are based on BNP policy and what I have seen in elections where they have taken part. They seem adept at destroying the Labour vote in Tory areas, while the Tory vote stays largely intact.

Of all the parties the BNP are the most authoritarian. Most people have no idea what the BNP's agenda is because their dog whistle campaigning plays down elements that would make people baulk at voting for them.

I think Denis Macshane is trying to muddy the waters, like all Labour politicians seem to do.
Conservatives are not xenophobic or anti-foreigner, but are simply anti-Brussels and abhor the antidemocratic tendencies of the EU and its Commission.
Can Labour not steer clear of smear?
Me thinks not!

Warsie once again prooving her intellect,communicating skills and fighting spirit!

MacShane never fails to give a distorted account of matters concerning the Conservatives.

"Of all the parties the BNP are the most authoritarian. Most people have no idea what the BNP's agenda is because their dog whistle campaigning plays down elements that would make people baulk at voting for them".

Posted by: Tony Sharp | May 05, 2009 at 08:33

They may not know what what the BNP agenda is no more than some of them know what Cameron's agenda is - including I suspect you - but as far as the MSP are concerned the proof of the pudding is in the eating and many us are fed up with the diet: Conservative submission and sycophancy towards the EU, accompanied by ambiguous asides ("we will not let it rest there"); handing over the control of our borders to the EU and having to accept immigrants not only of the EU, but via the EU; our left wing activist judiciary kow-towing to the ECHR and discarding our own laws so that we cannot deport those we do not want here.

A recruiting sergeant for the BNP is none other than Boris Johnson, part time Conservative, part time comedian, full time loose cannon. His wish to give illegal immigrants amnesty is on par with his former idiocy in advocating giving Iran the Bomb. He once had to apologise to Liverpool, we must hope that he does not have to apologise to London sometime in the future.

As a traditional conservative, I believe the time for kicking backsides is fast approaching.

Twattering: Nothing worth betting on today (execpt a hollow Conservative victory at the next GE). Golf later in the afternoon; will remain in the clubhouse to watch Arsenal hopefully trounce Man U (sorry, Tim but that is how it is). Come on you Gunners! Will have to leave - the Missus is watching.

"Most people have no idea what the BNP's agenda is ...."

Rather like the Tories then!

I dislike the BNP leaders intensely. I dislike them for their thuggish demeanour; I dislike them for their neo-communist concept of a centrally directed economy and, most of all, I dislike them for their notion that nationality is a racial, rather than cultural identity.

That said, I can understand why and increasing number of British working class voters support them. For nearly 60 years we have suffered from wave after wave of predominantly low skilled and often culturally incompatible immigrants. Some have adapted well but most have not and we certainly now have a major problem, or rather a series of major problems, here in our society. The motivation behind this “door ajar” immigration policy has been to keep wages level low, to the detriment of the British working class, in a flawed economic strategy that, be so doing, we can compete against the emerging economies of the Pacific Rim. That is the intellectual justification, the reality is that it improves the profits of industries which employ shelf stackers and burger flippers (think Sainsbury, Tesco etc; then think about the large donors to political parties).

Try to imagine what it must be like, having spent the first two thirds of you life in a traditional working class area of one of our large cities and then to find that, in the space of a few years, you are surrounded by people who talk in a different language, many of whose females are masked and from which the police have effectively withdrawn.

So yes, the Tories are to blame, so are New Labour and so too are the LibDems. Too many of our political class do indeed inhabit a comfortable rich man’s cocoon, insulated from the rest of us by their wealth (think Cameron, Osborne & Clegg) and over generous remuneration packages (think New Labour and Blair’s Babes).

So the Tories and Labour are in the jitters about the B.N.P. gaining power in the election's.Ha,Ha,Ha,He,He,oh my,I am splitting at the sides.
I still think the tories will get in again.

Six Muslim members of the Conservative Party have been jailed for charges relating to election fraud during a council vote in Berkshire by Reading Crown Court.

The charges related to an election in the Slough Central ward in May 2007 where Labour councillor Lydia Simmons lost her seat to Tory Raja Khan. Mr Khan, along with two others, had previously admitted the offences. Three other men were convicted by a jury.

The men, all from Slough, were jailed for between four-and-a-half years and four months. The court heard they created hundreds of false names in the weeks running up to the local election and entered them on the voter register.

Raja Khan, 52, of Oban Court, Montem Lane, was jailed for three and a half years after admitting conspiracy to defraud the returning officer and perjury.

Gul Nawaz Khan, 58, of Richmond Crescent, pleaded guilty to perjury and was jailed for eight months. Mohammed Basharat Khan, 46, of Mirador Crescent, admitted conspiracy to defraud the returning officer and conspiracy to pervert the course of justice. He was jailed for three years and four months.

Arshad Raja, 53, of Broadmark Road, was found guilty of conspiracy to defraud the returning officer. He was given an 18-month prison sentence. Mahboob Khan, 46, of Quinbrookes, was convicted of conspiracy to defraud, conspiracy to pervert the course of justice and perjury. He was jailed for four years and six months.

Altaf Khan, 32, of Knolton Way, was found guilty of impersonation but not guilty of conspiracy to defraud the returning officer. He was jailed for four months.

Yasar Mumtaz, 20, of Wellesley Road, was cleared of conspiracy to defraud the returning officer. Former deputy mayor Mohammed Aziz, 50, of Wellesley Road, was found not guilty on the direction of the judge of conspiracy to defraud the returning officer after the jury had failed to reach a verdict. The prosecution said it would not be seeking a retrial in the case of Mr Aziz.

“Not for the first time, I found myself thinking that it is mainstream Britain which needs to integrate more with the British Asian way of life, not the other way around.” - David Cameron, “What I learnt from my stay with a Muslim family,” The Observer, Sunday 13 May 2007.

If anyone knows how to contact McShane they might pass on to him this story, which is a true one.

Some years ago I visited the home of a German friend whose family farmed in the shadows of the towering skyscrappers of Hanover. After a meal my friend's father began to talk about his experiences in the German Army in occupied Norway in World War II. He and his mates were, apparently, once so hungry they stole a pig and, being farm lads, killed it, cooked it and ate it.

As he was clearly relaxed, I then felt able to ask him about Hilter and queried how he was able to rise to power.

“Well, everybody looked down on us. We felt as though we didn't count. Nobody bothered about us.” he said. “But he made us feel important.”

And that is exactly how the white working class – those people who used to be known as the salt of the earth – now feel. They too believe they do not count any more. Most particularly, they feel that Labour, the political party that was supposed to look after their interests, no longer bothers about them. And that, Mr McShane, is precisely why they are turning to the BNP. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the Conservatives and their supposed zenophobia.

The BNP are gaining ground for a number of reasons, some attributable to each main party. Labour's ineptitude and incompetance have drove voters from them and all main partys as mass disenfrachisement occurs. All of the main parties that refuse to engage the BNP are exacerbating the problem by removing the chance to have the BNP's representatives shown up for the racist criminials that they are. Finally, the tory drift to the left has left many thatcherites without a party to support - I am one of them.

When people say BNP take Labour votes and UKIP take Tory votes, what they mean is respectively working class and middle class votes. Which is largely true, although when one or other party is doing well and the other badly, we cut into each other's votes. Blair had a fair few middle class voters and Thatcher had a strong working class following. It's quite possible the BNP could be a hindrance to us in seats we want to swing. The party is on the verge of a major breakthrough. They used to be confined to tense, racially mixed areas but recently they won a council seat near me in very white working class Swanley. I know people who will be voting for them in June and they aren't racists.

I agree totally with Thatcherite88. We've got to stop chanting "racist", a word that has become meaningless and irritating to most people. We must look at the reasons people are turning to them:

* Mistrust of mainstream parties and politicians
* Shambolic immigration policy
* A policy of multiculturalism that comes across as white self-hatred more than anything
* The undemocratic takeover of the EU

We need to hear David Cameron telling us what he's going to do about these things. The BNP aren't going to go away until the issues do.

If the Tories have really been making hard right noises, then those who would have potentially voted BNP would vote Tory instead.
Is MacShane saying that the Tories are not right wing enough?

Its a bit thick Labour blaming us. Its a failing of both parties to effectively play the nationalism card. Labour installed the PC BS that made it possible for such a party to prosper. Labour had hardly cry foul when in many cases it is their "beloved (oh don't make me laugh) working man" Who is embracing BNP most enthusiatically. BNP is not BUF and we should remember that at all times. These are national socialists not royalist conservatives. So labour should take care of their responsibility and appeal to the working man. We of course have our part to play. We really do have to become more authoritarian in our approach and way more nationalist. It should not be to hard to convince BNP floaters to embrace the conservative style of statesman craft if it is spread skillfully. We have;little choice but to give the people what they desire. Discipline and morality, clear and unambiguous definitions of right and wrong.
Marriage is best, the Army is good, Britains First and always. Of course there will be opposition suppressive personalities that will need to be convinced or converted. The more determined opposition may have to be faced down and criminalised in some cases.
The State will crush anyone who is unwilling to conform to true type, that is how you make friends and influence people. There is every possibility that the Conservatives can swallow much of BNP whole given permission to act and propaganda's distributed door to door. There is nothing half so lovely as a propagandist given vent.

Colin b you will be surprised iam a tory will vote bnp its all about pandering including cameron you would think white working ,middle class people were the minority in this country.The tories are just as bad they say nothing for the people

Joahuwawa,

No, you're not right that the Cons have joined nasty far right groups, we have left the EPP with a view to creating a new grouping. Very different. Why have we done this? Because - as with a Constitution Referendum - we have a view on Euro issues and keep our word on them. Unlike Labour who just go to Europe and give away the £7billion rebate without any of the CAP reform that was due to be quid pro quo.

I have posted on here on a number of occasions that the BNP go on ‘pilot light’ under Conservative governments, and switch to ‘full flame’ under the Comrades. Now the BNP are becoming the equivalent of an out of control forest fire due to the level of mass immigration allowed by this government of all the Comrades over the last few years – with dissenting voices emotionally blackmailed into silence by Lefty howls of “racism”. It is patently obvious – from voting results – that the BNP – whom many of us point out are fundamentally Left – are mopping up disaffected Comrade voters.

Even Comrade Livingstone admits this – as he told Iain Dale [as quoted in the Gruniad in March 2009] ”The BNP will continue eating into the Labour vote until the government realises it needs to do something for working-class people."
Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2009/mar/18/ken-livingstone-labour-gordon-brown


BTW – Comrade MacShane manages to be both sexist – and patronising – to Comrade Blears suggesting she didn’t even write the piece that bears her byline. His inference is “meta-narrative” is beyond her intellectual capabilities as he says: “Hazel could not, would not have written "meta-narrative" in a million years. Her mistake is not to have read carefully what was going out in her name.”

This article isn’t so much trying to shift the Comrades’ culpability over the burgeoning BNP, but more evidence of Comrade infighting with MacShane –v- Blears!

And for your benefit, Joshuawahwah, rape in marriage is already an offence in the UK, though rarely prosecuted under Labour's governance for fear of giving offence to those communities which condone it, out of their misguided multi-cultural PC dominated mind-set

Or it might equally have something to do with the fact that it is extremely difficult to gather evidence for a prosecution if the victim does not want to complain. It's difficult to prosecute rapes anyway, because of proving beyond reasonable doubt the issue of consent. It's going to be triply difficult to do so when the rape occurs within a marriage.

" Most people who vote for the BNP aren't racist. I accept that they feel so frustrated by the sort of politics they see today that they feel the only way to be heard is to vote for a racist party. They would never want to have them in power. It's their way of giving the other parties a kick up the backside."

Labour deserve the BNP because it is without doubt a socialist party. We would be well served by a resurgent BUF to offer a different form of Fascism. We could do with our nations God Loving, commie hating and essentially royalist Fascists to raise their somewhat less ugly head.Better let us take from the Fascists and apply the lessons to our own Conservative party. We can appeal to the better sort of Nationalist which is essentially almost all of them. I see no reason why absorbing BNP would not be advantageous to Tory's. I can see no reason at all why a lurch to the right would not go down well with many people. Isn't that what democracy is about the will of the proletariat. The people are crying out for a strong national direction, the party willing to deliver will gain control of the Nation.
We demand strong leaders with clear and transparent agendas. This is what the best of the Nation desire. We don't want a new Iron Lady but we do need a strong man. Are you up to the Job D.C.?

'Also I was quite shocked, in fact quite disgusted that the Tories in Europe have just voted against making rape in marriage a European wide offence.'

Agreed.
But then against Conservatives are against anything from Europe - even if it's good. That is what makes them so weak to handle Europe.

And on BNP, We will most likely find Conservative in bed with BNP compared to Labour or any other major parties due to their similar feelings on "immigration"
Future alliance perhaps?
I'd fear the future as a ethnic minority under a Conservative Government.

MacShane is beating the same worn out drum IE If you disagree with Nu Lab policy relating to immigration, Europe, positive discrimination etc you will be labelled a xenophobic racist, as such millions of people have been silenced & labelled racist by Labour pols & the socialist toadies who infest public sector & the unions. The word 'racist' has been devalued & is no longer the photon torpedo it once was.

I don't recall the Far Right having much relevance or support during the Thatcher years...

Yes Warsi in an incompetent politicion & a product of positive discrimination

The BNP vote should be attributed to anti-racists among Britain's native peoples getting the silly idea that they ought not suffer race-replacement. It's really no more complicated than that.

This sums it up quite well I think...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5x6oNzO5X5k

Anyone know the background to http://www.micandidate.co.uk. It profiles all the major EP candidates and lists every candidate

I dont know the background but according to the site there are 62 BNP candidates running in the upcoming European elections.

http://www.micandidate.co.uk/candidate_list.aspx?idparty=24

So do I blame Labour or the Tories?

Gordon is the faltering HAL9000 in the movie "2001":

Dave: Hello, Gord do you read me, Gord?
Gordo: Affirmative, Dave, I read you.
Dave: Open the pod bay doors, Gord.
Gordo: I’m sorry Dave, I’m afraid I can’t do that.
Dave: What’s the problem?
Gordo: I think you know what the problem is just as well as I do.
Dave: What are you talking about, Gord?
Gordo: This mission is too important for me to allow you to jeopardize it.
Dave: I don’t know what you’re talking about, Gord?
Gordo: I know you and Nick were planning to disconnect me, and I’m afraid that’s something I cannot allow to happen.
Dave: Where the hell’d you get that idea, Gord?
Gordo: Dave, although you took thorough precautions in the pod against my hearing you, I could see your lips move.

“The British National Party stands for the preservation of the national and ethnic character of the British people and is wholly opposed to any form of racial integration between British and non-European peoples. It is therefore committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent, the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948.”

Thank you for posting that, James Bethell. You've just got the BNP my vote!

Two points have not been fully addressed on this topic as yet: first, the BNP is a left wing party, as can easily been seen from the similarity of their policies with those of Labour, except on immigration and race; and second, in the last election in which a fascist party candidate had a chance of winning, the Birmingham Stechford bye-election won by Andrew MacKay on Woy Jenkins taking his turn at the Brussels trough as an EU Commissioner, the National Front voters had predominantly voted only for one party before, Labour. But then we should not expect a balanced story to come from the poison pen of someone who served in the government of Phoney B-Liar.

Tim, you may wish to look at (c) abuse on google.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d6bothkpeuU

Labour should blame the Conservatives. If the so called Conservative party stopped trending to the left on everything from crime to immigration and other social issues maybe they would stop losing vote share to the BNP. We need to act more like the party of Enoch Powell and Margaret Thatcher and less like the party of wimp Cameron or we have only ourselves to blame. I'll be voting BNP June 4th and in future elections until things change.

Time to go Mr Brown:

http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/please-go/

In my opinion New Labour have lost their core vote by not having a debate with the English and by constantly attacking the English. That is, new labour attack English culture, (How much gov't funding was spent on St George's day compared to St Andrew's day?) their genetic roots, (The English all "mongrels"!) their habits, ("You English are pompous") their attitudes, ("You people form queues too much") their football team, (When England win, they are lucky; when they lose, they're useless) their cricket team, (See football team) their olympic team, (No home-coming parade was organised for English olympians. Scotland had one for their olmpians) their right to self-determination, i.e. "you will have no English parliament"; you will have scottish ministers imposed on you...whether you like it or not! I have not even mentioned the Barnett formula or the West Lothian question.
People are also sick and tired of the denigration of society, i.e. the constant low-brow crap on t.v. and the the view that immoral people are the norm.

The English are sick and tired of new labour. New Labour arrogantly imagined that they could carry on denigrating England forever. It appears that the worm has turned.
Bye! Bye! Brown. Bye! Bye! New labour!

BNP's economic policies (which is the historical basis for the simplistic left-right dichotomy) are quite similar to Labour. Certainly, they sit on the left of that particular spectrum. Why are they referred to as right-wing?

Incidentally, the Nazi movement originated in the German socialist party, and Hitler practised socialist economics.

If you live as I do in a BNP heartland like East Lancashire it is clear why people vote aganst the main parties, desperately hoping someone will do something about the squalour, anti-social behaviour and hopelessness of places like Rochdale, Burnley and Oldham. Walk down a typical street and you will feel like you are in a 70s slum - any so-called investment has not even started to solve the problems, instead it can be seen in the guise of a modern, swanky public sector building, great for a photo opp, for the fortunate staff and for an occasional doctor's appointment but it doesn't mean you won't be intimidated by drunks and louts or have to wade through litter and dumped mattresses on your way home. 40 years ago these areas used to be posh, and now they are slums - I don't blame the immigrant population, but lots of people do. Integration means more than a few posters and some football matches, these areas need targetted renewal by people capable of achieving real results ie not Local Authorities and not Socialists. The basics need tackling, cleanliness, speeding, anti-social behaviour and businesses need to be given an offer they can't refuse to relocate here. Young people need to be encouraged to set up in enterprise - and helped to realise their aspirations. It's a conservative agenda - Highest Common Denminator, not lowest.
Unless people see real tangible change (not just new health centres) then voters will target their frustration at the most obvious change - the make-up of the Community.

If the Labour Government had spent less time courting celebrity and money, if they had spent more time looking after their own backyard. Yes, I am talking about the White Working Class, who now after twelve years of a Labour Goverment have been largely left to languish on sink estates, and to send their children to underachieving schools to prepare them for a life spent on benefit. Where do these people turn too?. They have been told from birth not to trust the Tories, what has Labour done for them?. Nothing. So they go to the cheap alternative the B.N.P. Labour to its habitual shame has let down and betrayed huge swathes of the British Public. People desereve better, and it is not the B.N.P.

There are almost no major policy differences between Labour and the modern Conservative Party. (The Lib Dems are seen to combine the woolliest aspects of both).

So a great many of those who object to this state of affairs tend towards UKIP if they're slightly better off, or BNP if they're on a lower social scale.

The rest carry on voting as they always have, blissfully unaware that their so- called choice is now no choice at all and will make no difference to the way this country is governed.

The rise of the BNP is due to the failure of the major parties to consider the economic considerations of their voters in terms of immigration policies.

http://www.american.com/archive/2009/august/dealing-with-diversity-the-smart-way

HOUSE OF LORDS. Select Committee on Economic Affairs. 1st Report of Session 2007–08. The Economic. Impact of. Immigration. Volume I: Report

http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldselect/ldeconaf/82/82.pdf

Fascism usually rises when socialism fails to deliver 'the goods': thousands of more or less decent people see people of another ethnicity enjoying a better life than them in thier backyard. end of. if the white middle class lived in northern cities to a large degree we'ed be talking about the rise of marxism: the rascist element is merely the result of the most obvious differentiating factor, not the cause of the resentment: which relates to wage ratios, availability of good schools etc. asian immigrants tend to do better than the indigenous working class because they don't drink/abuse drugs to dull their frustration... not that all the wwc do that either, but it's the cultural attitude towards investing in childrens future rather than fleeting (albeit psychologically necessary) luxuries underlying that judgemental assumption that is the point. Why this difference in spending pattern, and the consequent difference in attainment and the corrolary resentment passed down generations? The Trade Union/Labour movement, aside from the foundation of a few large institutions has failed the english working class. Repeatedly. Equals no hope for a better future on their own terms. Ergo desire to destroy.
Incidentally most of the proto-islamists I've met have been immured in 1.Cannabis, and 2.American Rap. as a result of extending friendship to wwc children...
Your move Cameron

Warsi is correct but what tact is being taken. The leader must act quickly - TODAY, he must become the people's champion on a number of fronts.

1 - Labour conspiracy on immigration

2 - Call an election NOW

3 - Withdraw the whip from MP's who are known to be fiddling and are standing down

4 - Tell the people it is Brown preventing an election and due to that he is preventing a referendum of the Lisbon Treaty


That's enough to get you voted into office for god sake but also change a lamentable plan to be bashing benefit claimants in the middle of a recession which is going to get worse, whilst supporting bonuses to bankers!

Don't you see the social, economic and unparalleled political devastation for this country is you lose????

Get on with it man!

And tell the people when war will be over!

I have read the article based on the Desperate Labor.I like post very much as it contain informative in nature.I agree with the point that New Labor have lost their core vote by not having a debate with the English and by constantly attacking the English.It can be converted into useful debate if they are operated with good ease.I want to know suggestion from others.

OH how you wish the British People loved your party like they do the BNP. We are the only party that are commited to repatriating OUR BOYS back to the UK alive! When we attain the power in Westminster and it may well be a while, but when we do your war mongerers will still be around and you will attend criminal war trials and when found guilty you will face the full ferocity of the newly established criminal laws inc capital punishment.

SUPPORT OUR TROOPS, BRING THEM HOME…NOW !


BNP memmbers should join us tories! holcombe.brighton@talktalk.net

If MacShane really is as concerned about the far right as he says he is then he should be supporting David Cameron's Munich speech in which he pointed out that 'multiculturalism has failed'.

This failure has been nurtured for years by left wing governments across Europe, including our own recent Labour government. The resultant vacuum is now being filled, not by the likes of the BNP but by Geert Wilders PVV in Holland, the success of which is inspiring others across Europe including the English Defence League whose language is now concentrated on culture rather then race.

This message is far more resonant and therefore more seductive to what will inevitably become an increasingly disenchanted electorate at a time of economic crisis.

So MacShane has picked the wrong target in the BNP while trying to deflect the responsibility for the current and growing mood among many voters from his own party's failure to tackle this issue when they had the chance to do so.

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