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Although I long ago decided that I would NOT be voting Conservative in next years EU elections, every time a story like this appears, it just strengthens my resolve and reminds me why I made that decision.

Of ocourse we will not be withdrawing from the EPP as David Cameron promised. There is such an easy excuse for him to justify breaking that pledge that my confidence that we will leave the EPP is at rock bottom.

And if we can't trust the leadership on fullfilling this cast-iron pledge, how can we be expected to trust William Hague when he said yesterday that a Tory government would not take us into the Euro. With the EU commission president confirming that negotiations are going on behind the scenes for UK membership, I'm sorry but I don't think that my party is committed to the fight.

As a result, expect big UKIP results next June.

With the public in the furious mood they are in right now, if Cameron did anything so unprincipled and dishonest he'd give the BNP the very chance they've been praying for. I fully intend NOT to vote tory in the euro-elections but to vote Tory in the General.

If he betrayed us I would vote for whatever else was on offer here be it UKIP or BNP or whatever.

'If anyone in Britain still doesn’t understand why David Cameron has promised to take his MEPs out of the EPP'...

It was to win the party leadership election, wasn't it ? If he really believed in it he would have done it already when the EPP broke their promise over Roger's expulsion.

Welcome on board, Lars. You're obviously not one of President Barroso's 'people who matter'.

Lars is a good man. I should be proud to sit in the same group with him.

My vote for David Cameron was heavily influenced by the pledge to leave the EPP and I believe there were enough like me to have influenced the outcome of the leadership vote.

One MEP firend explained to me why he would not leave the EPP before the next euro elections; an explanation that I am given to understand was influential with DC. I was content with that explanation.

However if the pledge to leave the EPP is not kept next year then I will feel that I was offered and acted upon a fraudulent manifesto.

This is an essential committment.

CCHQ Press Release July 2006:

"David Cameron today fulfilled his pledge to withdraw the Conservative Party from the European People’s Party (EPP) Parliamentary Group and form a new group in the European Parliament. Today he will sign an agreement to form the new group with the Czech Prime Minister-designate and leader of the Civic Democratic Party (ODS), Mr Topolanek. At Mr Topolanek’s explicit request, the new group will be formed at the beginning of the next European Parliament in 2009"

The Press Release used the past tense 'fulfilled'. How can Cameron break a pledge he has already delivered?

It would take a real, lying, cheating bar-steward to achieve that!

I congratulate the man fully for his DUTY to help his nation in defiance of the traitors we have in government who themselves should be on charges for treason.

I would take precisely the same action he did if I were in his shoes.

However if the pledge to leave the EPP is not kept next year then I will feel that I was offered and acted upon a fraudulent manifesto.

This is an essential committment.

Posted by: A Blue Dragon | December 01, 2008 at 17:21


Ditto !

But Blue Dragon, RugFish, fudge and flannel is what you will get along the lines of "..but it will take time to form the new group, and we are so far ahead in the polls you people are damaging our chance to get rid of this government, it will all be resolved after the GE in 2010, so button your lips for now, trust us.." etc etc

Bravo Lars!! I look forward to you joining us in our new grouping after the June elections.

I am not sure why Conservative Home choose to publish this without any sort of comment from anyone in authority.Are you absolutely sure this correct or is it idle speculation?
If it happens as you suggest however it would be an extraordinarily bad move with consequences far,far beyond the importance of the EPP. Cameron's reputation would be severely damaged and he will struggle to restore it.
I try to be as loyal to my party but a party which breaks this commitment would have no more of my time, money or I think my vote.

I am a committed Conservative, but if we have any more MEP's threatening to go back on the promise of leaving the federalists in the EPP, then I will have no choice but to vote UKIP and would urge others to do the same!

Pity we have reached the end of the cycle of regional Campaign 2009 conferences, for it would have been interesting to have heard what our candidates' responses would have been to the EPP Question.
Any grouping that would contain people like Lars W and Roger H is bound to have principle.
Might the reluctance of some MEPs to move have something to do with the fear of losing one or two little perks?

To my certain knowledge ALL the candidates had to agree to leave the EPP-ED before they could be confirmed as candidates. What becomes of this condition now? I MUST know for certain!!!

I strongly agree with all those above who remind Mr Cameron that we voted for him because he promised to take the party out of the EPP. It was the only substantive promise he made during his leadership campaign and he has already reneged on the words and spirit of that pledge; he promised we'd be out in weeks not months, it has now been years. If he now breaks the rest of that promise then he cannot ever be trusted again by anyone either inside the party or in the wider electorate.

At this rate I too will not be voting Tory at the Euros, or campaigning for the party either, after the disgraceful reselection process and the return of the execrable quisling Kirkhopeless as leader of the MEPs it is becoming clear as day that neither Cameron or most of our MEPs can be trusted not to sell us out to the federalist rump that seems to hold sway even though neither the party nor the country support them.

I am also a committed Conservative, and I second that.

Its a shame that some of the good Eurosceptic candidates will suffer if activists such as us vote against the party, but I'm afraid its a small price to pay to send a message to the leadership. There aren't that many of them standing as MEPs anyway, and where they are they are either so far up the list or so far down it that it doesn't matter how we vote. I have no Eurosceptic Conservatives stanfing up for me in my region, so I don't feel that I am losing anything if I vote against them.

I agree. It's absolutely essential that David Cameron delivers on his pledge to leave the EPP.

"At this rate I too will not be voting Tory at the Euros, or campaigning for the party either..."Shaun Bennett,20.00.
No! I could never do that, though sometimes I fell like those who went over the top at the Somme - everything that could be thought up to make the task the more difficult was put in place.
Just think what is the alternative: UKIP on the one hand with their one-track minds, or LibDems on the other changing what little minds they have as often as the weather. Let's get out there and seek to send as many as possible Tory MEPs to Brussels, Strasbourg, et al. Then keep them to their promises.

There's no point to the Tories in Europe. They just cannot be trusted. Of course I want a Tory government at the next election-hopefully promising a referendum on our membership of the EU-but I can't see how it can possibly be bad to have a party in Europe that will REALLY defend our interests. Unfortunately, that is no longer the party that I and many thousands of other activists love.

"At this rate I too will not be voting Tory at the Euros, or campaigning for the party either..."Shaun Bennett,

Sadly I felt it necessary to resign my membership of the Conservatives because it seemed that the E.U. had become a banned topic of discussion. I now don't know how to vote in June. If the UKIP is the only party that is honest about the E.U., no matter how badly organised, then they will get my vote and my assistance.

The fact the Tories are still in the EPP is a textbook example of David Cameron's mendacity and incompetence.

"Let's get out there and seek to send as many as possible Tory MEPs to Brussels"

Why? These are EU integrationists in blue rosettes. They have no aim other than to further the goals of the EU, not the people who elected them.

UKIP's power is not its (lack of) organisation, it is the simple message it will send to Cameron.

Remember, this is proportional voting, not first past the post, so a vote for UKIP is not a 'vote for Labour' etc etc, it is a vote against further EU integration.

A protest vote is essential. The Tory MEP's deserve to lose their seats as they are insulting every Tory party member who wants to end the slow crawl into a United States of Europe.

I fear another stitch-up, like the promise to leave the EPP. Sadly, with the honourable exceptions of a few MPs and MEPs the party is committed to staying in the EU come what may. They make vague statements about reforms, but nothing more.

Note William Hague`s carefully worded statement "There are no circumstances in which the next Conservative government will propose joining the Euro". Note the operative words "will propose". He could have said we will never join the Euro, but that would not leave a way out if, as will happen one day, joining the EU is made a condition of membership.

Sorry, but the Tories cannot be trusted over Europe. What we need is a referendum; not just on the Treaty/Constitution, but on our membership of the EU - IN OR OUT? That would settle the matter once and for all. If there was a majority for staying in even Eurosceptics like me would accept the result and stop grumbling.

Why won`t the Conservative leaders adopt this line? Probably because they know there would be a majority vote to leave.


Edward,
I don't trust the Tories on the EU any more than you, but the reason I welcomed yesterday's statement from Hague was not the statement you quote, which as you note, offers some wriggle room, but this part:

"Keeping the pound is vital for Britain’s economic future. "

That covers all scenarios imho, and addresses the issue you raise.

I expect that statement, with that wording, to appear in the GE manifesto. If it does not, then the Tories deserve to lose the next GE.

However, with the euros in 2009, the outstanding EPP pledge and non-existent post-LT ratification policy, next year could be a very bad year for the Tories.

Are you sure Editor,that this story is correct or are you speculating?

I have two good sources Malcolm. Why do you ask?

I am glad Malcolm Dunn has asked this question because I too wonder where the story comes from. My understanding is that nothing has been decided on the way out of the EPP.

Because I didn't think the leadership would be so stupid Tim.

On a related point, given that the Party opposes EU-funded pan-European political parties, how come a Conservative MP and two MEPs are allowed to be members of one such party?

Posted by: GB£.com | December 02, 2008 at 08:41

"Keeping the pound is vital for Britain’s economic future. "

That covers all scenarios imho, and addresses the issue you raise.

No, it doesn't. The criterion could change. "In 2008, keeping the pound was vital for Britain’s economic future. This is no longer the case."

Roger Helmer and Nirj Deva will be disappointed about Lars joining them in the new group as he is retiring next year. He only joined the EPP last year I think - so why didn't he apply to join the ED instead then if he is keen to work with Conservatives?

I notice all the UKIP trolls and astroturfers are on here again, trying to stir up their hatred, whilst pretending to be outraged Tories. When will they set up UKIP-home. Oh, I forgot, they did and it failed due to lack of support? I've said it before and I'll say it again, a vote for UKIP in any election is a vote for Gordon Brown. He will love it if enough Tories vote UKIP. Don't give him the pleasure. Did you get that: A VOTE FOR UKIP IS A VOTE FOR GORDON. Sorry for the capitals

@Nigel J,

UKIP Home was an unofficial forum that was set up by Chad Noble, aka GB£, and he should comments on its performance. Chad's political promiscuity Tories to own party to UKIP and back to the Tories) was a major factor in its apparent failure. It was actually a Tory failure rather than a UKIP one.

The new UKIP members' forum, ukip.org.uk, is expanding quickly but you have to be a UKIP member to access and post on it. It has hundreds registered posters already. We discuss campaign ideas and policy without the distraction of

UKIP's official blog will be launched before Christmas. It will be far better than its pathetic, over-moderated propaganda equivalent on conservatives.com. The last time I looked, the average number of allowed comments was 2 to 3. Pathetic!

A UKIP vote in the European elections is not a vote for Gordon. It is a vote against Conservative MEPs supporting thousands of laws being imposed on Britain by the EU.

It is a protest against Tory MEPs failing to support Marta Andreasen, the EU chief accountant and whistle blower, who was sacked for disloyalty because she revealed 10,000 cases of fraud in her first six months in office.

Marta is now a European candidate for UKIP and should be elected to take the fight against EU fraud, corruption and false accounting to the European Parliament's budget committee.

A vote for the Conservatives in June is a vote for the Tories' quisling MEPs and the EU super state - and its corruption, fraud and cost to Britain of over £100,000 per minute. It is time to SAY NO to the EU and Tory sell-out merchants. LEND YOUR VOTE to UKIP.

NigelJ, the truth is that UKIP are in big trouble. Their voters are defecting in droves to the BNP which rather begs the question as to whether the parties have any similarity or if not, precisely what their differences are. Their website UKIP Home seems to consist of posters squabbling amongst themselves.

Are you sure Western Star? Trying to smear UKIP with the BNP is the sort of thing I would expect from a EUphile lefty.
UKIP are a joke electorally but I don't think we should smear them. There are some fine (if deluded) folk within their ranks.

To respond to Malcolm Dunn, can I just reproduce below what I wrote on another thread:-

""Even with an increased number of protest votes UKIP are unlikely to repeat the level of success which they achieved at the previous elections, since the BNP have been making steady inroads amongst disillusioned UKIP supporters. However, since both UKIP and the BNP claim to put patriotism above party, is there any chance that they may agree not to oppose each other in certain marginal constituencies and thus avoid splitting their vote."

These words were written by a David Parker on October 15th 2008 on the Playpolitical.com website.

David Parker, is this you? Would you confirm therefore that you are a member of UKIP and that you believe that UKIP and the BNP should employ a tactical pact in next year's Elections to try and keep out Conservatives? If this is so it would rather explain your hostility towards those Conservatives you consider less Eurosceptic than yourself."

As far as I know, Mr Parker has not yet replied.

As for the content, I leave it for you to make of what you will.

Thanks Malcolm. Western Star is lying. UKIP is not losing any votes to the BNP. The BNP takes votes from Labour, especially in council by-elections, because it is a socialist party that advocates renationalisation.

UKIP is a libertarian party that wants low taxes, limited government and greater personal freedom. It opposes the EU it wants to restore democracy and shrink the state. UKIP has attracted many activists who are also active in the Libertarian Alliance and Freedom Association.

Western Star writes "Their website UKIP Home seems to consist of posters squabbling amongst themselves". That is another lie because Chad Noble closed down that site over a year ago.

It is clear that the Tories are willing to resort to dirty tricks to cover up the fact that their MEPS are voting with the EPP to impose thousands of EU laws on British voters and their businesses. They are disgrace to the party of Margaret Thatcher.

Western Star's post at 18.37 is a total joke. How can the lack of a reply to a blog post justify his lies and smears? Dirty tricks indeed!! The Tories must be worried that UKIP will take millions more votes from them next year. We will!!!

I'm not sure I understand the point of your post Western Star. I am not aware that UKIP or the BNP have any form of pact and do not know who David Parker is. Is he senior in either party?

Indeed Malcolm. UKIP emphatically rejected the BNP's offer of a pact in November. It received a lot of media coverage. Here is the BBC story with Nigel Farage videoed interview.

So "Western Star" is deliberately smearing UKIP. If Western Star continues posting such obvious lies, Conservative Home could get a writ for libel from UKIP's lawyers. Mr Montgomerie has been warned!

Sorry, the BBC story on UKIP's rejection of a BNP pact is here - http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/7706857.stm

Here is the BBC story with Nigel Farage videoed interview. UKIP's official rejection is here - http://www.ukip.org/content/latest-news/831-ukip-rejects-bnp-offer.

If any more lies are published here, writs could follow.

Chief accountant at the Commission? Really?

The fact that the BNP offered UKIP a deal tells us all we need to know about the latter. It's not like they offered a deal to Labour or the Conservatives is it?

UKIP is on its last legs. By this time next year it will have ceased to exist.

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