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If Cameron followed this up with a committment to investigate every suspect government transaction - that would show real courage.

If he's just finding a scapegoat, while preserving the political class's hide - he's Blair II.

QA lot of people earn big bucks from Government because they are supposed to take on the burden of risk from the taxpayer. Yet when all goes horribly wrong they actually get off lightly. Let's see reward for risk being actually that, and people who say that they are prepared to take risks because of the reward it brings being prepared to lose their shirts when the comapny crashes.

Will nurses and teachers really foot the bill? They enjoy public sector job security, public sector pay (average now higher than private sector), public sector pensions (with lower retirement age) etc. Their children will certainly foot the bill to pay for their privileged position as will everyone who works in the productive, private sector.

"I'm told to expect almost daily activity for at least the next month."

Good!

Sally, if it is of this level of economic illiteracy I hope we hear no more.

DC is taking the electorate for mugs....

Until and unless he opens up the Party's books and refunds every penny received from the banks and hedge-funds he now holds responsible for the global crisis - along with the Government - he will look like the biggest political hypocrite since Michael Foot...

Can you imagine Mandy's response to this piffle - he will destroy us...

The phrase involving big feet and mouth spring to mind....

I can see the Carphone Wraehouse picture right now...on the front of tomorrows Mirror,Sun,Guardian possibly even Times....under the headline...Politcal Hypocrite...

THE CRIMINALS ARE THE GOVERNMENT AND COMMON PURPOSE TRAINED SECTOR HEADS DAVE - IT IS YOUR LOT - THE POLITICAL CLASSES WHO PRODUCE NOTHING AND LOAD THE COMMON MAN WITH BURDENS OF TAX WHICH ARE UNBEARABLE - IT IS YOUR LOT WHO SHOULD BE IN JAIL.

Strange parallel with CCHQ spending vast amounts of money, and now it has gone wrong, Cameron is seeking for nurses etc to pay the bill with his proposed extension to state funding.

Or as Cameron almost said, "there is not one rule for political parties and a different rule for everybody else."

Terribly hypocritical attack from Mr C.

I thought it a fine speech. One expects Chad Noble to attack Cameron frequently but Ian Bennett aren't you meant to be aConservative? How can we go from a speech where Cameron spells out the fact that people guilty of fraud should be punished to the tripe you wrote defies belief.
I would keep taking the tablets if I were you !

"Cameron: We won't treat the richest any differently from the poorest"

"Cameron: We won't treat the richest any differently from the poorest"

So will they be expected to pay the same percentage of their Income in Tax's ?

Or is this more of a case of them paying the same amount of council tax regardless of the number of bedrooms etc their house has ?

This is another of those issues that can be played either way and which the Labour party will have a field day with. Are we going to abolish BUPA in the interest of the NHS as the rich are not going to be treated differently from the poor. Are we going to abolish the open prisons and put the financial fraudsters in the scrubs? Are we going to build council houses with swimming pools? How about single class trains with a single fare rate for all.
It’s a foolish thing to say and thankfully David did not say it. Not a very clever headline I think you will agree on reflection.


..I should have noted also that the bankers are actually paying the money back at a hefty rate of 12.5% (ie it will produce a profit for the taxpater)

Mr Cameron on the other hand, obviously, will be taking state funding money and not paying a penny back.

So who is going to hit the poor nurses worse?

Mad Malc, I am only pointing out the factual inaccuracy in Cameron's attack.

Except of course there isn't any 'factual innaccuracy'.

Malcolm, Cameron said that nurses are footing the bill for the recapitalisation of the banks.

That is not true. It is a fib.

It's a loan. It is being repaid with 12.5% interest so how can Cameron's statement that nurses are footing the bill for the recapitalisation be true?

It can't be true. It is not true.

Which is why Mr Redwood made the accurate comment about the banks paying 12.5% and only getting 4% on the govt debt they are being forced to buy.

"THE CRIMINALS ARE THE GOVERNMENT AND COMMON PURPOSE TRAINED SECTOR HEADS DAVE - IT IS YOUR LOT - THE POLITICAL CLASSES WHO PRODUCE NOTHING AND LOAD THE COMMON MAN WITH BURDENS OF TAX WHICH ARE UNBEARABLE - IT IS YOUR LOT WHO SHOULD BE IN JAIL."

No, I believe it's people like that chap who has just been arrested for defrauding $50 billion.


I truly am at a loss to understand the visceral response to Tims' blog - I really am. Cameron surely has stated some very important truths here about fairness, justice and restoring confidence in the Financial Sector.If people have committed criminal acts then they should be investigated and "banged up" if found guilty. Why are these investigations not being carried out.

OK so that's alright then. We are all going to get our money back and more. How very, very stupid of me.

Would somebody like to tell me why Common Purpose is supposed to be The Root of All Evil?! As far as I know, it is an organisation which runs rather expensive management training courses.

Here's John Redwood's blog on this subject Malc:

http://tinyurl.com/6pwgua

A little quote from it for you:
"So the banks lose 8% per annum on large slugs of money,and for once the taxpayer gains."

So Redwood clearly says that the taxpayer is gaining from this, but Cameron says the taxpayer is footing the bill.

Some come on Malc, is Cameron or Redwood wrong? They can't both be right.


Would somebody like to tell me why on earth Common Purpose is held to be "the root of all evil"?! It is an organisation which runs management training courses which teach one to think outside the box and use initiative in leadership. What on earth is so wrong with that? Surely we could do with more of it!

APOLOGIES for the double post! It went very strange the first time and I thought it had not appeared - Please don't rap my hands! :)

Malcolm - I am and was staggered by the totally hypocrital nature of the speech made today by Cameron.

One dimensionally it sounds fine - when you discect it - it is full of bland and totally hypocritical soundbites with absolutely no substance.

E.G A Political Party - funded by the Banks,by the hedge funds by the speculators,a Party Leader who flaunts and advertises the fact that he is professionally and personally friendly with the Banker,the Hedge Fund Managers and the speculators....this is awful,simply awful politics - its cheap,its vaccous and its either very nieve or totally stupid - or both!

By all means comment on the economic crisis and hold those responsible to account - ALL FOR THAT - but it could have and should have been done in a far more intellectual,academic,factually and politically mature way - todays speech imho is political suicide!

"If people have committed criminal acts then they should be investigated and "banged up" if found guilty. "


Quite and I do not think any sensible person could argue with that.

However, mostly we are in this terrible mess because of appalling lack of judgement by many many people here in the UK, in the USA and elsewhere.

It was incredibly stupid of the banks to lend people 100% plus mortgages right at the top of a house price boom but they did.

It was very stupid of the FSA not to realise that it was incredibly stupid of the banks to lend people 100% plus mortgages right at the top of a house price boom but they did.

It was very stupid for the credit card companies to lend lots of money to people who could not repay it and it was equally stupid of the FSA not to see this was a danger.

It was very feckless of millions of people to borrow money that they could never repay.

It was negligent, to the point of idiocy, of the governments both here and in the USA not to see that their economies floated on a massive bubble of debt which would inevitably collapse in a big heap, sooner oir later.

It was almost as negligent of Her Majesty’s Opposition not to point out the emerging problems years ago, either because they were unworried about frightening the electorate or because they too were so stupid they could not see the inevitable.

Are we going to bang up all these people?

Is Cameron or Redwood wrong? I hope Redwood is right but I rather doubt he will be.

"Would somebody like to tell me why Common Purpose is supposed to be The Root of All Evil?! As far as I know, it is an organisation which runs rather expensive management training courses."

I would agree, Sally, except that, unlike most such organisations, Common Purpose is registered as a charity and, it seems, receives extra funding form the state sector on the basis of its charitable status.

Also, the people running Common Purpose seem to have had very little experience of managing anything significant. So it looks a bit like a New Labour fix up to me.

This is all such nauseatingly obvious stuff. Why does Cameron constantly feel the need to recycle this sort of nanny state motherhood and apple pie? It's certainly not the product of a first class mind....

There are some interesting questions to ask. Why does regulation repeatedly fail to prevent fraud and consistently fail to moderate the ill effects of market exuberance - and can we truly break from the pattern of human behaviour over hundred of years (remember south sea bubble, tulip fever etc)? How come thousands of reasonably informed businessmen knew what was happening in credit markets but regulators did not seem to take appropriate action? Does a failure of regulation really support greater regulation or suggest a different appropach to regulation and does government failure to make capitalism work really support a greater role for government?

All of these are too profound for Cameron and he prefers the bland and populous. One reason I will find it very hard to support him.

Bland, posturing. Believable if it was delivered by a salt of the earth sort like Eric Pickles but from "Dave, I'm worth tens of millions" it sticks in your throat...

There is a real dislocation between the grass roots party grafters, the electorate and the political chaps who glide round in the Westminster Bubble...

I am getting drawn more and more towards UKIP...

I am getting drawn more and more towards UKIP...

In which case, Wearside Tory, you are so out of touch with the electorate that the credibility of your advice on "dislocation" is, err, stretched.

ICM finds support for UKIP down to ZERO percent

I am one of the, apparantly, few people who can not understand what some of the contributers are getting at. Ian Bennet in particular seems to be communicating from Mars, or more specifically a lunatic asylum on Mars; his hysterical ravings don't seem to relate much to what Cameron said. Trying to lend a note of maturity to the proceedings I would merely point out that the very basis of Cameron's speech related to what was going on already in the US and to ignor that really would be "suicidal".

GB£ said :

"So Redwood clearly says that the taxpayer is gaining from this, but Cameron says the taxpayer is footing the bill.
Some come on Malc, is Cameron or Redwood wrong? They can't both be right"

Well actually they are both absolutely right. If my son smashed up our car and I footed the bill for it repair, even if he repaid me with interest (some hope) I would still have footed the bill. Much like the Banks, the cost would have been forced on me due to the careless actions of my son. Also like the effects of the Banks on Britain, I might well have been forced to borrow money to sort out the mess. In politics the other side is always wrong most especially if they are right.


Well if Cameron really thought that the taxpayer shouldn't have bailed out the financial services industry why did he support Brown's bank recapitalisation plan and loudly trumpet his non-partisanship in doing so ? The logical consequences of his remarks are that those banks and financial institutions which made imprudent loans should face the consequences of their actions, not be saved by the State.

I would have been happier if he had taken the advantage of a major speech on the economy to follow up last week's German demolition of Brown's disastrous return to Keynesianism and spelt out clearly a fiscally responsible tax cutting monetarist agenda.

Mark Fulford, could I be so bold as to ask where you live? I suspect it is within the South East "golden triangle" - I spend alot of my time in the North East and North West up here there is massive dissapointment with Labour and Cameron. People are looking for another option - a single issue party (like UKIP may do very well). UKIP has to keep its powder dry for the election.

JohnC said:

"Well if Cameron really thought that the taxpayer shouldn't have bailed out the financial services industry why did he support Brown's bank recapitalisation plan and loudly trumpet his non-partisanship in doing so ? The logical consequences of his remarks are that those banks and financial institutions which made imprudent loans should face the consequences of their actions, not be saved by the State."

The reality was that a Bank collapse at that moment would most likely have lead to a domino effect, that would have threatened the whole economy. Although it was Bush who said it about America economy his observation that without a bail out “this sucker is finished” meaning the whole western economic system, was no idle threat. Dave was right to offer his support at that moment, although clearly he wasn’t happy about the fact. I recall how angry he appeared at the time. In normal circumstances a single institution that got into such a mess should rightly be allowed to fail, but this was one instant when the normal rules of economics had to be put on the back burner. Now that the immediate danger has passed, it is quite rightly business as usual. The Job of Her Majesties opposition is to oppose, so even when my enemy is right he is wrong. Dave is now doing a pretty good job of pointing out the real cost of the bail out, which is exactly what he should be doing. The sad fact is being honest about the mess is hurting our poll position as the public would rather have believed Labours lies.

Peter Buss wrote:

"I truly am at a loss.... Cameron surely has stated some very important truths here about fairness, justice and restoring confidence in the Financial Sector.If people have committed criminal acts then they should be investigated and "banged up" if found guilty. Why are these investigations not being carried out."

Reply: But DC's righteous indignation is somewhat selective is it not? Why does he not recognise the hypocrisy of continued payments of British taxpayer's money to the other corrupt organisation, the EU, whose accounts have not been passed for the 14th year in succession? What about the outrageous scandal of paying this gang of shysters £6.367 million every hour?
Come on - get real!

My, how things change.

“What you won’t hear from me this week is the sort of easy cheap lines beating up on the market system, bashing financiers. It might get you some easy headlines, but it is not going to pay a single mortgage, it’s not going to save a single job.”

David Cameron: Tuesday 30th September 2008

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