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As the left realise that they are about to lose power there'll be a lot more of this politics of hate.

That's just the state of the left at the moment really. Trying to cling onto power but without anything to shout about.

Good grief [sigh]... Steve Bell has "crossed the line" many, many times over the years.

If we plan to govern this country then we might as well get used to it.

I suggest we all go and read his article:
"Can cartoonists go too far? Yes. Should we go too far? Yes..."

https://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2008/jul/16/pressandpublishing.barackobama

Cartoonists can get away with anything. I suspect Alan Rusbridger would have spiked a column if it had contained the same argument.

Not funny and very offensive!

Unfortunately Michael Howard's "it's not racist but" posters did NOT help us get a good reputation in this area.

The Grauniad is worried that come 2010 they will lose all that lucrative advertising from the NuLab public sector.

Sad...

I cant wait

'may well be' means it's a null statement anyway - so apart from all these spiteful lefties being terrible racists that delight in others segregation and misery, even they think they'll get stabbed if they don't vote conservative!

Sorry, but it was David Cameron who chose to speak about the responsibilities of black fathers at the height of the knife crime concern - not Bell

jeremy: The Bell cartoon was on Tuesday, the black father comments were on Wednesday and in response to things said by Barack Obama.

If you look at the statistics for People who were arrested for Knife crime in London, the above Cartoon is not wrong. However it is bad taste to publish something like this.

This may sound racist but it is time for the Black community Leaders to wake up. In every Community a small minority of people are there to bring shame to a a community. It is up to the Community Leaders to stop that.

This is very standard Guardianista fare, to be honest. If we're complaining at this then I hate to imagine what we'll be like come election time when it will be all out attack from the likes of Bell on the racist, elitist toff front. It's to Mr. Cameron's credit that he the left hates him this much.

What's that got to do with it, jeremy? Cameron was highlighting responsibility in general and drew attention to Barack Obama's speech in which OBAMA called for responsibility from black fathers. I suppose Obama's a racist now?

Well the black father stuff was well trailed, but it vindicates bell just 1 day after his cartoon in my opinion.

jeremy, how does "Fathers need to take responsibility" translate to "You're gonna get stabbed by a black yoof unless you vote Tory"?

Put the Ken Livingstone/Darcus Howe spin manual away and come into the real world.

Well look, cartoons are exagerations - cameron has also not said you wont be stabbed under the tories - so you have to except cartoons are a charicature of a more simple point.

But you have to be either very naieve or VERY partisan to totally ignore that in the middle of his week focussing on Britain's broken society and knife crime, cameron has given an interview saying that a major problem is black fathers not taking responsibility.

What do you think he is getting at? That reading levels could be improved if black fathers were involved? No - he means crime and knife crime.

He also happens to be right

Mr Bell is, by a very long way, the nastiest 'cartoonist' in the British press. There are no moral limits so far as his output is concerned.

Just as a matter of interest, does anyone know the ethnic (and the true ethnic breakdown, not the one which lumps all "white people together" including all eastern eurpoeans etc) breakdown of those convicted or arrested for knife related offences?

Well if cartoons don't matter and he appears to be a racist socialist funded by brown, let's make a cartoon of a guardian cartoonist dressed as a nazi performing acts for money from a pig etc...then publish in a national newspaper.. see how much he'll think it doesn't matter then!

Bell's Major-wearing-underpants-outside-his-trousers was clever.

This is just nasty and crude.

jeremy, I'm not sure who you believe to be "right", Cameron or Bell, or both, but I believe that Fathers do need to take responsibility, whether they are black or any other colour.

There are some who will never be convinced, even by the evidence of our actions. Boris had much of the same during the campaign and won anyway.

Now many of his detractors are now realising that the lies told about him were just that and will be willing to vote for us in the future.

Absolutely James. For a cartoon to be effective it must ontain a grain of truth and this one like the rather ridiculous demonisation of Boris during the mayoral election doesn't. I doubt evn the most partison Guardian reader will find this cartoon funny or true.

Eastern European and Somalian gangs are fighting out turf wars on British soil for control of people smuggling, drugs and prostitution - as well as proxy wars relating to the politics of the places the 'fled' from. This is a direct result of the loss of control of our borders under Labour and requires drastic surgery.

Capture, convict and send back. If their home countries won't have them them parachute them back and bugger their human rights.

The only way of dealing with the Guardian is shutting down all these Govt job adverts.

Just please assure me that someone in CCHQ has a plan to do it.

In the meantime I suggest that our "local Govt innovations" team start the process of ending advertising in the Guardian of local Govt jobs. Maybe Boris could show them the way as payback for the Guardian's attacks on his campaign?

I have previously complained to the Guardian about this, and an article, deploring "race-mongering" where lefties stir up racial divisions and promote victimhood for attempted political advantage or for trying to justify their comfortable incomes from this "industry".
All the original thinking is now coming from the Tories and the Left is having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to fill out their columns.

Sorry, but it was David Cameron who chose to speak about the responsibilities of black fathers at the height of the knife crime concern - not Bell

Posted by: jeremy | July 17, 2008 at 13:24

jeremy: The Bell cartoon was on Tuesday, the black father comments were on Wednesday and in response to things said by Barack Obama.

Posted by: Editor | July 17, 2008 at 13:28

owned!


Is it conservative policy to stop the state funding of the guardian?

I wouldn't worry about it too much, it's the Guardian so no one will be reading it. Just hold your fire and think about this glorious publication going bankrupt when we take all the public sector advertising away from it :)

IIRC, Steve Bell was a contemporary of mine at Sheffield, where he drew cartoons for the Students' Union newspaper, Darts. It would seem that his politics haven't moved on a great deal since the 1970s.

Dear Editor & friends,

For heaven's sake...

...it's a CARTOON! and it's in The Guardian!!

Get off your high horses, get over it, and get back "on message".

Steve Bell has been offending people for decades - think of how John Major and Margaret Thatcher were depicted...

We sound ridiculous making a big deal of this. Step outside and get a breath of fresh air.

It's about time he turned his guns on the Tories. His relentless attacks on Labour, while funny, have become a little wearing.

Bell's the same fool that depicted Ariel Sharon eating babies, non?

Patrick Ratnaraja: "This may sound racist but it is time for the Black community Leaders to wake up."

It is not racist. But in a society where everyone should be treated equally, regardless of ethnicity, gender, physical ability, age or sexual orientation, why are we talking about "Black community leaders"?

Does a community not comprise the whole? The sum of all its parts? We are never going to get away from nonsensical race equality laws, divisive diversity awareness and all that entrenching of difference if such segmenting descriptions continue to be used.

Patrick Ratnaraja: "This may sound racist but it is time for the Black community Leaders to wake up."

It is not racist. But in a society where everyone should be treated equally, regardless of ethnicity, gender, physical ability, age or sexual orientation, why are we talking about "Black community leaders"?

Does a community not comprise the whole? The sum of all its parts? We are never going to get away from nonsensical race equality laws, divisive diversity awareness and all that entrenching of difference if such segmenting descriptions continue to be used.

Incidentally, Cameron's speech made clear reference to race.

Using the smokescreen of "cutting red tape" he wants to remove the paper-thin protection that is meant to prevent the disportionate targetting, and hence conviction of black youths.

"Mr Cameron also says cops are too scared to tackle yobs on streets because their hands are tied by rules from the 1980s set up to avoid racism allegations. He vows to tear up stop and search forms which PCs must fill in — and dismisses campaigners who say they are needed to stop blacks being harassed."

So, the problem is that not enough black people are being searched? Ridiculous! Black people are searched disproportionately as it is. What do you think will happen if they don't have to follow the rules?

He also said "We give up our rights to take vengeance when we are wronged..."

We have rights to take vengeance when we are wronged? Bloody hell.

This cartoon is absolutely right to highlight both the text and the insidious subtext of his speech.

I agree with treacle i could not have put it better myself, we have to stop pussy footing around here. If you break the law you have no human rights.

So presumably the Telegraph or Sun ought to do a cartoon entitled: Vote Labor or don't get stabbed by people who happen to be black?


I think we'd agree that Steve Bell doesn't do subtle.

"So, the problem is that not enough black people are being searched? Ridiculous! Black people are searched disproportionately as it is. What do you think will happen if they don't have to follow the rules?"

Young people are also more likely than average to be stopped and searched; as are men. As are city-dwellers.

Curiously enough, it's because members of these groups are likelier than the average to be involved in criminal activity.

I'd like to thank the posters on this thread who have shown why Steve Bell is right.

The cartoon seems fair enough. And if that's what it boils down to, it's not a difficult choice, is it?

I'd like to thank the posters on this thread who have shown why Steve Bell is right.
Well obviously the statement is right, but what is wrong is the way that he's trying to paint a racist slant that wasn't there and then imply that this is wrong.

I'd like to thank the posters on this thread who have shown why Steve Bell is right.
Well obviously the statement is right, but what is wrong is the way that he's trying to paint a racist slant that wasn't there and then imply that this is wrong.


"I'd like to thank the posters on this thread who have shown why Steve Bell is right."

I doubt if playing the race card will be any more successful for Labour at the next election than it was in the London Mayoralty.

Steve Bell is filled with hate.

He twists the truth so much that it is clear he has a personality problem and needs treatment.

You can do better than that Passing Leftie. This cartoon is garbage and you know it. Or haven't you learned anything from Mayoral election?

This cartoon is offensive. I therefore propose a public burning of copies of the same together with a Fatwa against Steve Bell which will ensure that it is not republished.

It's the only language these pinko newspapers understand.

@ Cllr Tony Sharp | July 17, 2008 at 15:11

in a society where everyone should be treated equally, regardless of ethnicity, gender, physical ability, age or sexual orientation, why are we talking about "Black community leaders"?
Does a community not comprise the whole? The sum of all its parts? We are never going to get away from nonsensical race equality laws, divisive diversity awareness and all that entrenching of difference if such segmenting descriptions continue to be used.

First rate post.

Cllr Sharp, you are one of the very few people who get it.

We should be a “colour-blind” society and ALL talk of a person’s race should be unacceptable. To object to a person’s culture and habits is not racism. To prefer and advance a person because of their colour seems morally unacceptable.

We must be One Society to avoid inevitable conflict in 20 or 30 years (or earlier).

We should start a movement for this One Colour-Blind Society. We owe it to our grandchildren who will otherwise will have to live with a deeply fractured society with terrible (and possbly violent) consequences. I feel this is one of the most pressing problems for the future of this country.

We cannot leave it to Labour as they are going in completely the wrong direction and encouraging division.

Cllr Sharp, you understand the problem, why do you not start this One Colour-Blind Society movement?

I would join you.

Who's that meant to be behind the sign, Elvis???

@ Cllr Tony Sharp | July 17, 2008 at 15:11

in a society where everyone should be treated equally, regardless of ethnicity, gender, physical ability, age or sexual orientation, why are we talking about "Black community leaders"?
Does a community not comprise the whole? The sum of all its parts? We are never going to get away from nonsensical race equality laws, divisive diversity awareness and all that entrenching of difference if such segmenting descriptions continue to be used.

First rate post.

Cllr Sharp, you are one of the very few people who get it.

We should be a “colour-blind” society and ALL talk of a person’s race should be unacceptable. To object to a person’s culture and habits is not racism. To prefer and advance a person because of their colour seems morally unacceptable.

We must be One Society to avoid inevitable conflict in 20 or 30 years (or earlier).

We should start a movement for this One Colour-Blind Society. We owe it to our grandchildren who will otherwise will have to live with a deeply fractured society with terrible (and possbly violent) consequences. I feel this is one of the most pressing problems for the future of this country.

We cannot leave it to Labour as they are going in completely the wrong direction and encouraging division.

Cllr Sharp, you understand the problem, why do you not start this One Colour-Blind Society movement?

I would join you.

Bexie and HF have got it exactly.

If we carry out our threat to set up www.jobs.gov.uk after the election, we will bankrupt the Guardian.

Vengance, like vichyssoise, is a dish best served cold. Don't get mad, get everything.

Never seen a perceptive or even mildly amusing cartoon by Bell.

The Left are very intent on portraying the Conservatives as racist. It's classic demonisation and if it were the other way round - the right trying to demonise the Left - there'd be an outcry. The campaign against Boris Johnson was a model of this utterly below the belt politics. We can expect a lot more of it.

The Left are very intent on portraying the Conservatives as racist

They usually make things up about their opponents that they are guilty of themselves... they've no imagination.

Just like Gordon Brown's 'No substance' line.

You've got it in one! Norm Brainer @ 21.55

You might not like, but fact is a Conservative is more likely to be racist than say, a Liberal. I'm sure you'd all deny this though

You might not like, but fact is a Conservative is more likely to be racist than say, a Liberal. I'm sure you'd all deny this though

That depends on your viewpoint.
I'd say a conservative is more likely to be colourblind to race etc.
A liberal is more likely to see the difference and discriminate in some way, even though it may be "positive discrimination".
Each would see each other as recist, but not themselves.

Same as economically.
A conservative would like to treat people equally, whereas those on the left like to segregate again and see poor and good and rich as evil....4 legs good, 2 legs bad, apart from the ones that are more equal etc.

It's satire, don't get your knickers in a twist over it!

Considering that the overwhelming majority of stabbing victims seem to be black, presumably Bell objects to the Tories' targeting the black vote, and maybe even making significant in-roads into the Socialists' core!

We cannot deny the fact that there is a big problem in certain communities. As my name suggests I am also from BME community and there is a big problem in my community too.

It is time for us to accept that fact. We cannot keep on complaining that we are not treated equally. To be treated equally the communities should also take responsibility.

There is too much positive discrimination these days and that is the big problem. There are so many opportunities and the Young people just want easy money and they have nothing better to do.

All Young People should go through military training.

Sorry, but it was David Cameron who chose to speak about the responsibilities of black fathers at the height of the knife crime concern - not Bell

Posted by: jeremy | July 17, 2008 at 13:24

jeremy: The Bell cartoon was on Tuesday, the black father comments were on Wednesday and in response to things said by Barack Obama.

Posted by: Editor | July 17, 2008 at 13:28

owned!

-----------

Or was bell vindicated just one day after the cartoon?

New Labour is not the left and it isn't 'socialism'- if that's what you call socialism then you're DISGUSTING. It is to the left of the Tories, but it is basically on the centre. Anyway, I don't think Steve Bell is exactly pro-Labour- he's too left wing... It is possible to be both anti-Tory and anti-Labour, you know.
Also, the thing about Boris Johnson- maybe they were calling him racist because he does make racist remarks...
Anyway, Cameron has been detatched from society by his upbringing and education. He's not exceptionally intelligent (unlike Brown...) and doesn't understand what it's like to be poor.

Shame I had to come onto this thread late and read your comment af. It looks more like you are completley seperate from reality never mind society. Go and spread your envy, and general arrogance somewhere else. It takes someone on the left to accuse of stereotyping whilst doing so themselves.

"Anyway, Cameron has been detatched from society by his upbringing and education. He's not exceptionally intelligent (unlike Brown...) and doesn't understand what it's like to be poor."

Posted by: af | April 07, 2009 at 01:03


Af, you don't need to be exceptionally intelligent to be PM, nor to do most jobs actually (outside of employment based on extensive studying ie. doctors, lawyers etc.)

The role of PM is one of proper delegation and people management, whilst retaining the executive decision making responsibility. Therefore it is a job best done by a person with a feel for who is the best person to fulfil their respective roles within the cabinet, coupled with an abundance of common sense and vision of what we used to call GREAT Britain.

So pop back to Whitehall and see if the "ever-intelligent" Brown can get his head around that propsect....so far, so very, very misunderstood of the job in hand.

And you really should refrain from such stereotyping. It is so 1970s.

And regarding the cartoon, the "Get Stabbed" slogan is not too far from the truth. It is time people woke up and realised that knife crime at current levels is something that has only been allowed to spread under a Labour government, where police are predominantly desk based and operate on a responsive basis, rather than on a preventative basis.

Vote Labour and, yes, you might just get stabbed. Who by? Who knows?

Can the Conservatives turn that damage around overnight? I doubt it but the first step will be getting police back on the street and letting these misguided youths know that the fun time is over.

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