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Dan Hannan is reporting that the DUP sold their votes for £200m. How much did ConHome receive from Broon for their priceless contribution?

Hmmm....Not sure about either argument as presented at the moment,this is playing politics pure and simple.It does not help that an intelligence officer leaves documents on a train,or that 25 million names go missing.

But let us look at the trend in terrorism as a whole in the last ten years.

Remember the Japanese cult Aum, they produced Sarin and VX WITHOUT the Government and release Sarin on the Tokyo metro-7 dead 200 injured.

Or Timothy Mcveigh and Oaklahoma bombing using commercially avalible explosives-168 dead.The 1998 U.S. Embassy bombings left over 300 dead,the Bali bombing left 129 dead.And lets not forget Madrid killed 191 people and 9/11 left 2,998 dead.

Remember the ASU and cell structures pioneered by ETA,the IRA, Rote Armee Faktion and the PLO which are difficult to detect?

These are the sort of "case-studies" a jihadist terrorist (who are increasingly white) in sunny suburbia are using,with a methology easily avalible on the net. Mass casulties on a grand scale which so far the UK has escaped.

Yes 54 dead is seen as a partial victory by jihadist-in reality they wanted far more.

So I believe in the cold light of day that ANY Government of what ever political leanings wouldn't do the same and extend pre-trail detention to more than 28 days,however this has been used as an issue to give Gordon Clown another kicking.

The danger is both the Fib Dems and ourselves might end up with egg on our face (or more correctly blood on our hands) if all those young Jenny's,Timmy's and the rest of the chattering classes kids came home in body bags after a night out at the Ministry of Sound.....

If this happens,no doubt many of you will then be calling for the death penalty.

@pisaboy:

"Why on earth do you think the police would want to hold these people without charge longer than necessary?"

Very simple. The longer the authorities hold suspects without charge, the longer they can question them. This is not an exercise in determining guilt but a search for information. The trouble is that in order to fish for information it may take longer than 4 weeks to break people. And if they happen to be innocent, the government thinks they can be fobbed off with £42,000.

Brown treats the system of justice as if it were a TV game show.

Dear fellow blog commenters,

Here you talk about our rights, civil liberties and freedoms. Yet many of you here claim that the writer of this post is out of line and his actions have damaged the reputation of the party. It is important to take note that this is ONLY a blog, not the Conservative party's official page, and therefore, if Gordon Browns speech writers wrongly record it, it is their fault, not the fault of ConHom. ConHome gives us the opportunity to discuss a wide range of political issues and voice opinions which may not be aligned with the parties policies. However those of you here which have spoken out against this post in anger, suggesting that the editors should not use this website as a platform to perhaps promote their own views or views against the parties standpoint. However, remember this is ONLY A BLOG, not an official party discussion board, therefore by suggesting that they refrain from putting their views forward impinges on their own civil liberties, and that of their right to freedom of speech. If you disagree with their views by all means deliberate, but by suggesting that they keep alternative opinions off this website is not only an insult to them, and to the freedom of speech, but to this website - whose colorful debate has attracted so many of you. We are here to see alternative views, opinions and debates - not just read and nod our heads like robots to party memos. It is a great shame this editorial has been misinterpreted by GB, but you cannot accuse and punish the website for this, only the stupidity of his speech writers. ConHome is here for alternative views and debates, don't let this one issue cloud your views to its utility.

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I also agree with the proposal for 42 days. We are repeatedly told by politicians of all persuasions that the world and the threats we face have changed. Why is it that the conservative leadership now believes that the prescriptions that applied to Northern Ireland a decade or more ago, continue to apply to the new world order or al queda threats. The nationalists in NI were fighting to 'free' their country from what they perceived to be foreign rule. Al Qaeda are not seeking to remove a foreign rule from a particular country, they are intent on imposing a philosophy on all countries.

Your argument is based on the premise that there is no real difference between 28 and 42 days, but you have to substantial positive argument to support the proposal, beyond the fact that terrorist plots are more complicated.

I am sorry to hear that you have supported the government. I am sorry to hear that you have fallen for this sham of a bill which masquerades political maneuvering in the name of national security.

This is internment by any other name. I do not agree with the Conservative Home view on this matter which I regard as a fundamental undermining of the principles of justice in this country. It is a bad day for democracy and I am disappointed by the stance taken by Conservative Home which I otherwise enjoy and respect. It will take us a great deal of time to earn back our freedoms.

"They won't be satisfied until we are destroyed or enslaved." What makes people say this? The idea that Muslim fundamentalist terrorists have as their objectives the complete collapse of our society is fanciful at best. The truth is that they're egomaniacal criminals who want status and purpose for themselves. They focus on us - although focus is a fairly strong word given the really rather low level of terrorist activity - because we (that is, the US and UK) are actively meddling in the states "they" consider to be homelands.

That's not a defence of their actions. That's not even to suggest we never have the right to intervene in other countries, or should curtail trade and other ties with nations that are home to crazies who think our way of life is somehow immoral (although I don't support our invasion of Iraq). But it is clear that the 42-day detention without charge is a symptom of the hysteria that has gripped many in this nation. So much for the spirit of the Blitz...

And I don't buy the need for extra time at all. If there was enough suspicion that someone was actively engaged on an imminent terrorist act, they can be detained without charge for four weeks already. Once detained, they can't commit an atrocity; once released from that detention, they can be reasonably sure they're being tracked and will be substantially less useful as a terrorist.

In short: I'd rather have an open society with a tiny risk of being bombed than a police state where that risk is a tiny bit smaller still.

I am incensed by Conservative(in name only) craven appeasement to terror by refusing to back the 42 days.There have been many shameful episodes in Cameron's infamous tenure as leader but this outstrips them all.The British people who support 42 days will not quickly forget or forgive this egregious betrayal of their security and the tories will be punished for this profoundly cynical and opportunistic act.

"tories will be punished for this profoundly cynical and opportunistic act."

The only opportunism about this was by Brown when he raised the issue of additional pre-charge detention during the coronation he staged for himself, which was an attempt to wrong foot the opposition in the run up to the election he bottled.

Your opportunist charge is also undone by the simple fact that the polls show a majority of the electorate support trashing Habeas Corpus. Its an odd sort of opportunism which goes against public opinion.


I disagree with you both on this one, why is it that all other major democracies do not feel the need to extend detention powers, France 6 days and USA 2 days.

However I am delighted that you have had the courage to print knowing the opposition that you would receive.

I find it ironic that the bloggers who have said that you should not have printed are the ones advocating no increase in the 28 days, slight contradiction I think!!

We cannot trust the state with our personal freedom and I would reduce the detention term back to 7 days.

I’m afraid I disagree, we do have good intelligence the success of the security services has been good, last year in ten different cases 30 people were convicted of terrorist offences moreover security services estimate there are about 2,000 individuals involved in terrorist plots in this country and 50 preachers of hate have been banned from entering the country.

After the bloody invasion of Iraq, in which far too many innocent Iraqi people died we the people of that carnage have become for all time the enemy of Islam, the blood of their brothers and sisters, they say, cries out for vengeance and they won't be satisfied until we are destroyed or enslaved.

Five British Muslims were jailed for life for plotting a string of UK bombings and I think 2,000 more are ready to take their place. They try to infiltrate laboratories to obtain deadly viruses while we keep open the gate to more and more of their kind

Someone said: "If a terrorist is a Muslim, and a Muslim is a terrorist isn’t a terrorist just a terrorist no matter who he is? If this were 1941 we would logically and rightly not be allowing the immigration of Muslims, moreover we would likely be rounding them up and either deporting them all, or putting them into camps, but then, this is not 1941"

No, it’s not 1941 common sense does not prevail and it would seem we much prefer to wait for the prophecy of Enoch Powell’s Rivers of Blood. Much to our regret and outright stupidly "Islam the future for Britain", maybe on the cards unless we act now.

If there is good reason to believe people are guilty of a serious offence, there is no reason why they should not be charged and the matter investigated further. Why should a charge preclude further questioning? If they are found to be innocent they should be compensated for the time in custody.

This principle applies to other prisoners who are often kept on remand for quite long periods while the lawyers take their time sorting out the evidence. Some are then acquitted or the charges dropped. In justice should there not be a system of compensation that does not require them to sue?

I’m afraid I disagree, we do have good intelligence the success of the security services has been good, last year in ten different cases 30 people were convicted of terrorist offences moreover security services estimate there are about 2,000 individuals involved in terrorist plots in this country and 50 preachers of hate have been banned from entering the country.

After the bloody invasion of Iraq, in which far too many innocent Iraqi people died we the people of that carnage have become for all time the enemy of Islam, the blood of their brothers and sisters, they say, cries out for vengeance and they won't be satisfied until we are destroyed or enslaved.

Five British Muslims were jailed for life for plotting a string of UK bombings and I think 2,000 more are ready to take their place. They try to infiltrate laboratories to obtain deadly viruses while we keep open the gate to more and more of their kind

Someone said: "If a terrorist is a Muslim, and a Muslim is a terrorist isn’t a terrorist just a terrorist no matter who he is? If this were 1941 we would logically and rightly not be allowing the immigration of Muslims, moreover we would likely be rounding them up and either deporting them all, or putting them into camps, but then, this is not 1941"

No, it’s not 1941 common sense does not prevail and it would seem we much prefer to wait for the prophecy of Enoch Powell’s Rivers of Blood. Much to our regret and outright stupidly "Islam the future for Britain", maybe on the cards unless we act now.

"A willingness to back 42 days does partly depend upon your perception of the threat we face"

No it doesn't. It was nothing to do with national security and everything to do with Gordon Brown and his freakery (the control has long since evaporated).

A willingness to back 42 days also depends on YOUR willingness to be banged up without charge for that period, if someone chooses to frame you or the police decide they like using their new powers.

The argument is entirely predicated on the "suspects" being lonely Asian men with beards and a void in their life. When the authorities come for you, or your son, or your father, perhaps you will realise what civil liberties are for. They are for you and for me. But it will be too late by then. Perhaps you should read some history books.

I can't believe that I have just read such crap. The only people willing to vote for 42 days are craven cowards who have swallowed the new labour Kool aid that says we should all fear whatever they tell us. You are giving up your liberties for an illusion of security and deserve neither.

I've faced the terrorists on the streets of Northern Ireland, I've talked to people who were blown off their feet an hour before as they crossed a field in South Armagh, I've spent hours with a friend who suffered PTSD from watching a team mate be decapitated by a terrorist device.

It is better that we fight the terrorists with our liberties intact than give them away while asking the terrorists to not hurt us, please.

Makes me sick that I read this bollocks on a conservative website.

Peter Clarke is either ignorant or lying. If someone has used PGP to encrypt their data (which incidentally I urge *everyone* to do so) then existing legislation exists to force someone to hand over the keys (which I would never do anyway), as someone else said.

However, if they refuse to hand over the keys then the police are not going to access the data in 42 million (or trillion) years, let alone 42 days. Peter Clarke ought to understand the mathematics behind PGP encryption and if so, wouldn't come out with such ill-informed comments.

Therefore the "we need more time to decode encrypted data" argument is totally null and void and should not be used in this discussion.

I ask again, where is the serious justification for this extended period of time? David Davis is 100% correct in forcing a national debate on this issue. There is so much misinformation and ignorance around, we need to debate the issue and educate people as to what they think they're fighting for.

I'm with David Davis 101%

Hey, I've been lurking here for a few months, and decided to create an account today. Just figured I'd drop in and say hi :)

Pisaboy:

The thinking goes a bit like this. I make a bit of a nuisance of myself. Perhaps I make a stand on an issue of conscience the authority's want me out of the way. I am arrested and the police then have 42 days to find a reason. Maybe the Law is used only for suspected terrorists to start with but the precedent has been set. What is to stop the government asking for even more time later ? Perhaps 100 days would be better, how long before we have a state in which a person can be detained Indefinitely ? Its a slippery slope. If nothing else its a subject of principle that dates back as far as magna Carta. It undermines century's of common law. As it is the Police should not be arresting people unless they have something solid to go on. In the case's were a person is arrested but no evidence against them can be found in a reasonable time, then that person should be released. 48 Hours should be more than adequate. I think 28 Days was over stepping the mark in the first place and this increase just proves that when you give an inch the Authoritarians will take a mile.

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So long as there is reason to believe that someone is dangerous - either because there is reason to believe that they are involved in terrorist or other violent crimes, or because they have Psychiatric or Personality Disorders which render them potentially dangerous then there should right of indefinite internment available as an option, where convicted criminals have served their sentences it should be automatic that their release needs to be approved by a Parole Board and if not approved then they should be able to be detained indefinitely.

The priority needs to be National Security.

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