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Gordon Brown is gaining in strength each day,even when on vacation it seems.

We must make a determined effort to ram the Referendum demand as far down his and Labours throats as possible.

This is our greatest opportunity to flatten Brown and his bunch,once and for all.

To be frank it is getting laughable on this site where so many think that Europe will win the party the election.
It will not.Public services and Labours inabilty to deliver along with the environment, crime and high council tax are what will be decisive.Europe I am afraid is only on the radar of the obsessive right-wingers who populate this site or the UKIP idiots who are in a world of there own.
Please lets talk about reality not things that are about as believable as Harry Potter!

Agree with Jack, if not the vociferous way in which he expresses it.

Europe is an issue that exercises a small (though not in consequential) section of the electorate. The vast majority of people want a referendum, don't like the idea of any further European integration and would like to see the repatriation of certain powers from Brussels... but the simple fact is that this isn't an issue that exercises those who essentially agree with (or even go further than) our own position as a party.

Furthermore... the impression (and thats all it is) of "Tories bang on about Europe" provokes one reaction from the electorate (beyond the Tory core) and thats a massive yawn of disinterest and exasperation that we're not tackling issues that people care about and are exercised about. The best solution to Brown (and some are working themselves into a lather over a perfectly predictable, and more than likely transitory, poll bounce)is good organization and focusing on the issues that voters care about (which something the reports from the policy groups - must help with).

Well, it looks as though News International haven't quite made up their minds yet - though it would seem they continue to favour Brown more than Cameron.

As for 'Europe' or the EU Constitution, the point is, I think, that it is so important that it affects all the other issues Ben Surtees and Jack Stone mention.

Yes, the NHS and the environment may be important to some people (immigration being shown as a number one priority/concern in most polls), but at the end of the day, the EU Constitution will govern just exactly who creates health or environment policy - us, the British people and its Government, or the EU.

That is why we should be fighting Gordon Brown and Labour over a referendum, and holding their manifesto promise to account.

But you are members of a European grouping that wants a United States of Europe.

No-one is going to trust the words of a party that belongs to a pro-federalist group!


The vast majority of people could not care less about Europe and this is certainly not the way to burst Brown's bounce as it will simply enable him to say the party is as obsessed about Europe as it ever was and is not engaging with the issues that really matter to people.

William Hauge still banging away about the referendum, the public at large don't give a damn about it, they want a stop to immigration/the nhs/ crime / prison places ect William Europe and keep the pound lost you an election before... REMEMBER. And if anyones interested I had a tula salad for lunch today.

Where is your evidence Cleo? Every single poll I have seen in years would put the EU as one of the top 10 questions used determining voters intentions.No doubt you'll be able to prove to everyone here that EU 'doesn't matter to people. I look forward to your response.

The 2001 general election campaign to "save the pound" wasn't a huge success as I recall. Europe is well down the list of priorities for voters in determining their vote. People say they want a referendum but if there ever was one it would be interesting to see the turnout figures, they are so disinterested that they do not vote in huge numbers for European parliament elections.

The reason why the electorate in general does not have a view on the EU Constitution is that they do not understand the long term impact that it will have.

Cleo, as history shows, the Pound was saved. Britain never entered the Eurozone - therefore I think that it was pretty much a success in preventing Brown and Blair back in 2001 onwards.

If by the lack of success in the 2001 General Election as a whole, then regardless of what the Conservatives had said back then, they were not going to get back into government or do very well. The Major government and the media bombardment over allegations of sleaze probably had put pay to that.

I suspect that you would be wrong though Cleo, and any turnout for a referendum on the EU Constitution would actually be quite high.

An interesting question for you Cleo - do you believe that Britain should sign up to the EU Constitution or not?

The electorate does not understand the long term impact of EU membership? Most of the predominately right-wing press goes into overdrive over anything European and would probably still moan if tomorrow the Commission abolished CAP and refunded all the money to taxpayers. And the Conservative Party goes ant-EU mad over anything European. People know what the issues are, they read about them and hear about them all the time from all sides. They are simply more concerned about other issues.

The tragedy Jack is that the Cameroons don't have decent policies in the areas you highlight either. Why are you always so insulting about conservatives who happen to put constitutional issues first? In running an innovative manufacturing business (Ecocats) I am just as much in touch with the world as you are - just not so rude about other people. Git.

Chris Palmer- yes Britain should sign the constitutional treaty as it consolidates the previous treaties which Britain signed in the past.

The referendum issue is not simply about 'Europe'; it is about trust and democratic accountability.

Therefore we should make it a big issue.

It is fine to campaign for a referendum on the basis of trust and democratic accountability (although the Conservatives never worried about this in the 1980s and 1990s when far greater transitions of power were at stake) but don't use it as a vehicle to bang on about Europe because that will simply put voters off.

Why not publish Chris Gayling's report arising from The Conservative Research Dept entitled 'Gordon Brown's First Month...The Small Print'. This schedules GB's spinning and lies since he arrived in No 10. Its all a charade !

As for the Foot & Mouth 'prob', a good manager would have simply delegated responsibility to Benn but GB's paranoia to control (and seek status and acclaim) just typifies the weakness of being a control freak.

The economy is terribly fragile at the moment and, as a Nation, we are even more overdrawn with the 'Bank' than anybody realises and it is all GB's fault going back 10 years.

Magpie

"The referendum issue is not simply about 'Europe'; it is about trust and democratic accountability.

Therefore we should make it a big issue."

Indeed. So the tories want the public to believe that they want to stop more powers transferring to Brussels whilst simultaneously being members of a European grouping seeking a United States of Europe?

That's not going to confuse the public is it?

Conservative politicians want the opportunity of riding the EU gravy train, once their political time in UK has come to an end, just as much as the Mandelsons and Kinnocks did, so we are stuck in their nice little retirement club. The real answer is to use the EU, just like France and Spain, to take whatever benefits your own country and completely ignore the other stuff that doesn't suit, this of course will never happen here, with so many jobsworths who just love closing down British businesses through following even the most stupid EU law to the letter.

"The referendum issue is not simply about 'Europe'; it is about trust and democratic accountability.

Therefore we should make it a big issue."

That's absolutely right. Every Labour MP campaigned in 2005 on a manifesto commitment to a referendum (as did all the Tories & Lib-Dems); so we don't need to "bang on" about Europe - we need to bang on about Labour being a bunch of lying, untrustworthy shysters - from Brown downwards (with a few honourable exceptions, like Frank Field, of course). And if Ken Clarke & Co don't like it - TOUGH!

This suggests what most people know when they think about it sensibly. Brown is getting away with things and is a master of spin yet Cameron is good and needs more practical advice. Most people want him to succeed, its not an internal imaginary "either/or" battle. If we focus and illustrate what we stand for, we will win,

Matt

And Gordon Brown as Chancellor, cut the funding to that lab which is now under a big black cloud over who let the virus escape. I bet they arrange it so that its not the Government lab to blame! They were saying that its a rolls royce project with ford cortina funding, or words to that effect. Can we ram that down his throat as well please??

The above is code for we know Gordon Brown's a lemon but we can't say it yet.

Richard Shaw - we did, scroll down the ToryDiarys.

Chris Palmer- yes Britain should sign the constitutional treaty as it consolidates the previous treaties which Britain signed in the past.

Posted by: Cleo | August 07, 2007 at 21:09

There you have it - Cleo is perfectly happy with the direction of travel on the EU. So it is obvious why she doesn't want anyone to oppose it.

"That's absolutely right. Every Labour MP campaigned in 2005 on a manifesto...need to bang on about Labour being a bunch of lying, untrustworthy shysters"

Indeed. Good job the Tories have been trustworthy and stuck to supporting the policies in the 2005 Tory manifesto on which they were elected to their seats.

Looks like News International will back the winner. Any ideas who that may be? Doesn't look like DC at the mo...

"Looks like News International will back the winner." Not always, the Sun's front page backfired spectacularly in the Scottish elections, it probable handed the SNP a few more votes.

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